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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 17th February 2017, 11:08 AM   #2721
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Maybe it's not being reported over here in the UK then. Those senior GOPers who were critical of Trump prior to his selection as candidate or prior to his election seem to have been silent since his inauguration.
They started kissing his ass the minute he put out the help wanted sign.
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Old 17th February 2017, 11:15 AM   #2722
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I disagree. A lot of GOPers who voted against Trump in the primaries voted for him in the general election as the lesser of two evils.
But you seem to be sold on the idea that everybody who voted for Trump is a fanatic.....
I agree with Dump. I think he could shoot someone in the middle of fifth Ave and not lose votes. He might even pick some up.
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Old 17th February 2017, 11:22 AM   #2723
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I disagree. A lot of GOPers who voted against Trump in the primaries voted for him in the general election as the lesser of two evils.
But you seem to be sold on the idea that everybody who voted for Trump is a fanatic.....
For a lot of them the lesser of two evils is always the Republican.
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Old 17th February 2017, 11:24 AM   #2724
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Maybe his removal will be a 25th amendment solution rather than impeachment.
Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
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Old 17th February 2017, 11:35 AM   #2725
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I disagree. A lot of GOPers who voted against Trump in the primaries voted for him in the general election as the lesser of two evils.
But you seem to be sold on the idea that everybody who voted for Trump is a fanatic.....
Depends on what you call "a lot" I guess. His approval ratings among Republicans suggest that the vast majority view him quite favorably. Very consistent with how they've viewed other Republican presidents.

Last edited by Civet; 17th February 2017 at 12:10 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 17th February 2017, 12:04 PM   #2726
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The first month of Trump family trips and Trump Tower security will cost more than $15 million, roughly 1/6 that of 8 years of Obama.

Quote:
For Trump, the costs come with an additional perk: Some of the money flows into his own pocket. While Trump has removed himself from managing his company, he has refused to divest his ownership, meaning that he benefits from corporate successes such as government contracts.

The Defense Department and Secret Service, for instance, have sought to rent space in Trump Tower, where leasing a floor can cost $1.5 million a year — though neither agency has disclosed any details. In addition, Trump’s travel to his signature properties while trailed by a press corps beaming images to the world allows the official business of the presidency to double as marketing opportunities for his brand.

...

Presidential families have for decades been guaranteed round-the-clock protection, no matter the expense or destination. Every presidency has brought new operational challenges and lifestyle habits, from George W. Bush’s frequent stays at his remote ranch in Texas to Obama’s annual trips to Martha’s Vineyard and his native state of Hawaii. Judicial Watch estimated that Obama-related travel expenses totaled nearly $97*million over eight years.
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Old 17th February 2017, 12:21 PM   #2727
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
During Bush II's presidency there were a lot of criticisms about the number of vacations (and working vacations) taken.

What surprised me is that during Obama's presidency, right-wingers had the gall to criticize 44's vacation days even though he took far fewer than his predecessor. There was also added commentary about the cost of the president's travel, some of it wildly inaccurate. Then there was the particularly nasty commentary about "Moochelle" and her vacations/commutes to Europe.

Granted, this does not rise to the level of policies, but people concerned about these relatively trivial things, one would think, should be upset that Trump promised to rarely leave the White House. The people who repeatedly blasted Obama for golfing... It's almost as if they were actually bothered more by the person rather than the behavior itself...
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Old 17th February 2017, 12:37 PM   #2728
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The Trump University economics department strikes again.

Quote:
As the White House staff tries to put together a budget for President Donald Trump, they face a fundamental problem. Trump has promised to cut taxes, increase spending on the military and infrastructure, and avoid cuts to Social Security and Medicare. The only way to do that without producing an exploding budget deficit is to assume a big increase in economic growth.

And Nick Timiraos at the Wall Street Journal reports that Trump is planning to do just that — by making things up.

Deep into his story about Trump budget hijinks, Timiraos reveals that “what’s unusual about the administration’s forecasts isn’t just their relative optimism but also the process by which they were derived.” Specifically, what’s unusual about them is that they weren’t derived by any process at all. Instead of letting economists build a forecast, Trump’s budget was put together with “transition officials telling the CEA staff the growth targets that their budget would produce and asking them to backfill other estimates off those figures.”
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Old 17th February 2017, 12:40 PM   #2729
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
The people who repeatedly blasted Obama for golfing... It's almost as if they were actually bothered more by the person rather than the behavior itself...
It was particularly amusing because one of the Republican presidential heroes of the 20th century, Dwight D. Eisenhower, not only loved to golf but is now in the World Golf Hall of Fame!
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Old 17th February 2017, 12:48 PM   #2730
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post

Every time I see that man, which, I admit, is not often, he's talking sense. He appears to be an actual journalist with principles.

Why does he work for Fox?
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Old 17th February 2017, 12:51 PM   #2731
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
ANother reason why many actual, rational conservatives do not like Trump very much.
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Old 17th February 2017, 12:52 PM   #2732
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Why does he work for Fox?
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I AGREE
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Old 17th February 2017, 12:52 PM   #2733
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
ANother reason why many actual, rational conservatives do not like Trump very much.
It's a shame they voted for him anyway.
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Old 17th February 2017, 12:58 PM   #2734
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Stereotyping a whole party really isn't a political discussion in any meaningful sense of the term.
Republicans need to start a third party, Sane Republicans, GOSSPs: Grand Old Still Sane Party.

The reason the GOP is stereotyped in these discussion is because the leadership and most vocal members fit the stereotype. How are we supposed to address those not part of the mainstream GOP? I mean, I get it not all Republicans are the same. But you don't hear the resident right wing in this forum carving out exceptions to their portrayals of 'libruls'.
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Old 17th February 2017, 01:02 PM   #2735
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
That is odd. Trump singled out Don Lemon of CNN and I too wondered how Lemon would respond on his show last night. But, unlike the president, I didn't have time to watch. I usually don't. ...
Lemon doesn't pull any punches. He uses the word "lie" and calls out Trumpers on his discussion panels when they try to change the subject away from inconvenient questions.
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Old 17th February 2017, 01:03 PM   #2736
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
An observation is not the same as stereotyping.
Right, and stereotyping is not the same thing as an observation.

So now what?

My racist brother doesn't stereotype. He observes that black people commit more crimes and don't keep their property up. His evidence about what African-Americans are like is pretty similar to yours regarding prevailing tendencies in the GOP as a whole.

Last edited by phiwum; 17th February 2017 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 17th February 2017, 01:07 PM   #2737
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Right, and stereotyping is not the same thing as an observation.

So now what?

My racist brother doesn't stereotype. He observes that black people commit more crimes and don't keep their property up. His proffered evidence about what African-Americans are like is pretty similar to yours regarding prevailing tendencies in the GOP as a whole.
A lot of people in the GOP are not very happy with Trump. Liberals should be trying to work with them to stop Trump's abuses rather then play the usual partisan games.
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Old 17th February 2017, 01:09 PM   #2738
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Right, and stereotyping is not the same thing as an observation.

So now what?

My racist brother doesn't stereotype. He observes that black people commit more crimes and don't keep their property up. His proffered evidence about what African-Americans are like is pretty similar to yours regarding prevailing tendencies in the GOP as a whole.
African-Americans are a self selected group?
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Old 17th February 2017, 01:13 PM   #2739
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
A lot of people in the GOP are not very happy with Trump. Liberals should be trying to work with them to stop Trump's abuses rather then play the usual partisan games.
I keep hearing that, but I don't see any in the GOP breaking ranks except McCain and Graham. While McCain might work with the Dems, Graham is an adherent to the "whatever the other side wants, we can't give them anything" motto. Sorry, got Graham and McConnell conflated. Graham seems amenable to working with the other side.

People like Pruitt get approved to run the EPA and it was rushed through as some possibly embarrassing emails are about to come to light. Where were these unhappy GOPers?
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Old 17th February 2017, 01:23 PM   #2740
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
A lot of people in the GOP are not very happy with Trump. Liberals should be trying to work with them to stop Trump's abuses rather then play the usual partisan games.
What are you basing that belief on? Polls suggest that GOP voters are indeed happy with Trump and only a few prominent Congressional Republicans (McCain and Graham have been mentioned) seem to be willing to openly criticize him. Are you seeing data not reflected in the polling? Who are some of the other GOP anti-Trumpers in Congress who might be willing to work with liberals?
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Old 17th February 2017, 01:25 PM   #2741
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
A lot of people in the GOP are not very happy with Trump. Liberals should be trying to work with them to stop Trump's abuses rather then play the usual partisan games.
Right. And, of course, Republicans look just as childish when they spout stupid stereotypes about Democrats. I don't want anyone to think that my complaint about stereotypes is one-sided. It is not.
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Old 17th February 2017, 01:27 PM   #2742
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
African-Americans are a self selected group?
No one said anything about self-selecting up until now.

So, stereotypes are okay, so long as the group is self-selecting?

Why not address issues rather than fall into fallacies of false generalizations? Self-described skeptics can do better.
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Old 17th February 2017, 01:35 PM   #2743
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
No one said anything about self-selecting up until now.

So, stereotypes are okay, so long as the group is self-selecting?
That's one of the purposes of self-selecting groups providing a hasty generalization for members.

Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Why not address issues rather than fall into fallacies of false generalizations? Self-described skeptics can do better.
Try not using a false analogy if you're such a super skeptic.
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Old 17th February 2017, 01:38 PM   #2744
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
That's one of the purposes of self-selecting groups providing a hasty generalization for members.



Try not using a false analogy if you're such a super skeptic.
I've had my say. I am disappointed that dull stereotypes about the opposition party counts as political discussion here. We can do better than that, but evidently many of us prefer to see the world in terms of the good guys and the others and frame the discussion that way.

I will bitch no more about stereotypes. Carry on, political commentators!
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Old 17th February 2017, 01:41 PM   #2745
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Why does he work for Fox?
The Trumpsters are calling for his head, so we'll see how much longer he'll be there.
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Old 17th February 2017, 01:51 PM   #2746
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Right. And, of course, Republicans look just as childish when they spout stupid stereotypes about Democrats. I don't want anyone to think that my complaint about stereotypes is one-sided. It is not.
Oh, I 100% agree.
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Old 17th February 2017, 01:51 PM   #2747
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
No the same thing can't be said.
It can't be said that stereotypes of democrats are overwhelmingly accurate - to the same degree that stereotypes of republicans are overwhelmingly accurate?

Pretty sure it's just as inappropriate, regardless of which direction it's pointing.
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Old 17th February 2017, 01:55 PM   #2748
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
The Trumpsters are calling for his head, so we'll see how much longer he'll be there.
I think that Rupert will keep Smith simply because he has to have SOME credibility in the world of Jounnalism
It's not that Rupert really likes Trump,he was quite critical of Trump early in the Campaign. He is, to an extend kissing up to Trump because he is POTUS. But Rupert likes to keep his options open.
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Old 17th February 2017, 02:00 PM   #2749
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
For a lot of them the lesser of two evils is always the Republican.
This is kind of a meaningless statement, isn't it? For a lot of people who voted for Clinton, the lesser of two evils is always the Democrat, right? All you've done is acknowledged that some people are party voters, with no consideration who who the candidate is. That's a pretty well-known paradigm, not noteworthy in any way.
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Old 17th February 2017, 02:03 PM   #2750
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Republicans need to start a third party, Sane Republicans, GOSSPs: Grand Old Still Sane Party.

The reason the GOP is stereotyped in these discussion is because the leadership and most vocal members fit the stereotype. How are we supposed to address those not part of the mainstream GOP? I mean, I get it not all Republicans are the same. But you don't hear the resident right wing in this forum carving out exceptions to their portrayals of 'libruls'.
You expect all two of them to do this? Honestly, it's not like ISF really has a representative sample of republicans
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Old 17th February 2017, 02:07 PM   #2751
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
That's one of the purposes of self-selecting groups providing a hasty generalization for members.
Is it okay if we stereotype ISF members? We're definitely self-selected, arguably more so than political party since there are hundreds of times as many opportunities for selection in the arena of online interactions than there are for political affiliation.

But I'd have a really hard time making any sort of generalization for ISF members that was in any fashion reasonable and appropriate.
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Old 17th February 2017, 02:18 PM   #2752
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Can we stop with stereotyping the opposition?
Why? Are they friends of yours? Maybe you can set up a meeting...
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Old 17th February 2017, 02:20 PM   #2753
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Why? Are they friends of yours? Maybe you can set up a meeting...
Cute.
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Old 17th February 2017, 02:37 PM   #2754
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
The problem here is that I don't think it actually constitutes cheating. If selective propaganda and influence were to constitute cheating, then we'd have to disallow all advertisements that aren't a direct product of the candidate's themselves, as well as any grass roots type of rallying. All of them are attempts to influence the opinion of the voters.

In this case, the influence was coming from outside the US, but I'm not sure that's really rare - lots of people are influenced by BBC articles about the potential candidates, for example. And I don't think it's reasonable to consider BBC articles "cheating" if they favor one candidate over the other.

The element of this situation that deserves some attention is the hacking part. But that's a criminal action, or maybe it would be considered spying (I'm quite certain that our three-letter agencies are engaged in trying to hack foreign servers & assets pretty regularly).

I don't think this situation constitutes "cheating" any more than I would if the information had been fed to wikileaks from a domestic source. Indeed, I consider it no more cheating than if the information had been released int he form of an article published in a respected newspaper and acquired from a domestic source.

It influenced people's decisions... but that's what the entire campaign is about.
Oh for pity's sake. Stop with the Trump apologetics before you embarrass yourself anymore. Encouraging a foreign national to hack emails and post them via Wikileaks is cheating. It's also illegal.

In case you missed it, breaking into the DNC office at the Watergate Hotel was not just a breaking and entering, it was also illegal spying. Nixon's obstruction was not the only crime and the burglars were not the only one's charged.

Quote:
According to sources close to the Watergate investigation, much of the FBI's information is expected to be revealed at the trial of the seven men indicted on charges of conspiring to eavesdrop on Democratic headquarters at the Watergate.
Last Two Guilty in Watergate Plot
Quote:
Lawyers for both Liddy and McCord, said they would appeal the convictions, with McCords’s layer attacking the conduct of Judge Sirica during the trial.

Five other men who were indicted with Liddy and McCord, including former White House aide and CIA Agent E. Howard Hunt, Jr. pleaded guilty early in the trial to all charges against them....

In his final statement to the jury, Silbert told the eight women and four men that “when people cannot get together for political purposes without fear that their premises will be burglarized, their conversations bugged, their phones tapped...you breed distrust, you breed suspicion, you lost confidence, faith and credibility.”
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Old 17th February 2017, 02:39 PM   #2755
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Then exactly the same thing can be said of Democrats.

See how far that gets us?
Have you missed all the posts stereotyping Democrats or can you show us the posts where you complained about those too?
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Old 17th February 2017, 02:47 PM   #2756
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
You expect all two of them to do this? Honestly, it's not like ISF really has a representative sample of republicans
My ignore list begs to differ. And those are only the ones I found never had anything to add to a discussion and never listen to anyone else. There are still more Trump supporters that aren't totally knee jerk I don't have on ignore.

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Old 17th February 2017, 02:52 PM   #2757
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Oh for pity's sake. Stop with the Trump apologetics before you embarrass yourself anymore. Encouraging a foreign national to hack emails and post them via Wikileaks is cheating. It's also illegal.
There are no apologetics here. Calling out egregious hyperbolization as such is what any decent skeptic should do.

Encouraging anyone to hack emails and post them via wikileaks is unseemly, regardless of who that "anyone" is. More so when that "anyone" is a foreign government. But it isn't actually cheating. It's also not illegal. Actually doing the hacking is illegal, but suggesting that someone ought to hack it is not, to my knowledge, illegal.
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Old 17th February 2017, 02:55 PM   #2758
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He just tweeted and deleted this:



I'm guessing there's a damaging story in the pipeline from at least one of three.
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Old 17th February 2017, 02:55 PM   #2759
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
My ignore list begs to differ. And those are only the ones I found never had anything to add to a discussion and never listen to anyone else. There are still more Trump supporters that aren't totally knee jerk I don't have on ignore.
I'm not particularly convinced that your interpretation of what constitutes a right wing person on ISF is accurate. You've repeatedly cast me as a trump supporter, a trump apologist and supporter, you've insinuated that I'm a bigot, and you've implied that my comment in opposition of institutional sexism was nothing more than trying to pretend to not be as bad as you've decided I am. All of which is completely wrong with respect to me personally, and easily verifiable on this site based on my actual posting and position history. But hey, don't let that get in the way of your narrative I guess.
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Old 17th February 2017, 03:00 PM   #2760
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
He just tweeted and deleted this:



I'm guessing there's a damaging story in the pipeline from at least one of three.
It amazes me that celebs don't get that once a Tweet goes out,it is there forever. I expect this crap from some sports or showbiz figure who sends out a dumbass tweet,but not from the POTUS.

Trump is out to destroy the first Admendment. I would love any of his supporters here to have an intelligent defense of this one.

Look, every President feuds with the press. But I think Trump is the first one whoo seems to want to destroy an independent press.
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