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Old 26th November 2012, 05:59 AM   #1
Jonesboy
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The JREF idea of Reality

There is no JREF idea of reality or science because the description of an idea is not an experimental fact but a philosophy, and JREF does facts, not philosophy. It follows that it is impossible for the JREF to have a mission or description of its purpose because any such description is not an experimental fact, but a philosophy. And JREF does not do philosophy.

For the JREF there is no distinction between science or mysticism as these are ideas or philosophies and not experimental results. This means that the JREF vision appears as a name tag, a flag, pinned to a list of uninterpreted experimental results or facts.

Without an idea, mission, purpose or philosophy to its facts the JREF has only one place to go - to go with the facts that put food on the table, facts that serve our needs - pragmatism.

The public face of the JREF
The JREF confuses pragmatism with science, publicly, intentionally. As the JREF cannot give a description of science in its mission statement, for any such description will be philosophy, then all it can offer is pragmatic or useful experimental outcomes which masquerade as science. The JREF encourages the airing of pragmatic facts in its science forums, which is to place them in the wrong category - there are no categories in pragmatism. This is necessary in order to maintain the illusion that the JREF is not just another dreary pragmatic endeavour.

This amounts to conceptual fraud - the JREF is doing philosophy by offering pragmatism as science - but, importantly, because this fraud is conceptual then the JREF has no need to tackle it, for any analysis of an idea like pragmatism or science is doing philosophy. But the JREF does not do philosophy. So it is that this post, too, will be policed and tucked away.


Concluding...

The JREF was never pro-science or anti-mystical. The JREF is a sexed-up feudal pragmatism that, like all pragmatisms, is necessarilly void of concepts and debate. Forums and debates are tacked on by the JREF machinery to promote its popularity among its "members", but at the end of the day the JREF feudal pragmatism has nothing to do with debate or science. It is an endeavour of a policing, ruling class, neurotically exploiting popularity through the surge of popularity in science.

Last edited by Jonesboy; 26th November 2012 at 06:20 AM.
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:02 AM   #2
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Cool story, bro.
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:06 AM   #3
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Too much whine... not enough cheese.
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:11 AM   #4
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Long time lurker, first time poster. Wiki'd pragmatism. (can't do links). Wiki says its a philosophy. And JREF doesn't do philosophy, it seems. Carry on, and hi all!
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:17 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by s4zando View Post
Long time lurker, first time poster. Wiki'd pragmatism. (can't do links). Wiki says its a philosophy. And JREF doesn't do philosophy, it seems. Carry on, and hi all!


Great, thanks, now you've broke my brane.


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Old 26th November 2012, 06:20 AM   #6
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Huh?
That is all.
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:23 AM   #7
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Yes, well.

I have an inkling that life will go on despite these ravings revelations. Probably pragmatically.
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
There is no JREF idea of reality or science because the description of an idea is not an experimental fact but a philosophy, and JREF does facts, not philosophy. It follows that it is impossible for the JREF to have a mission or description of its purpose because any such description is not an experimental fact, but a philosophy. And JREF does not do philosophy.

For the JREF there is no distinction between science or mysticism as these are ideas or philosophies and not experimental results. This means that the JREF vision appears as a name tag, a flag, pinned to a list of uninterpreted experimental results or facts.

Without an idea, mission, purpose or philosophy to its facts the JREF has only one place to go - to go with the facts that put food on the table, facts that serve our needs - pragmatism.

The public face of the JREF
The JREF confuses pragmatism with science, publicly, intentionally. As the JREF cannot give a description of science in its mission statement, for any such description will be philosophy, then all it can offer is pragmatic or useful experimental outcomes which masquerade as science. The JREF encourages the airing of pragmatic facts in its science forums, which is to place them in the wrong category - there are no categories in pragmatism. This is necessary in order to maintain the illusion that the JREF is not just another dreary pragmatic endeavour.

This amounts to conceptual fraud - the JREF is doing philosophy by offering pragmatism as science - but, importantly, because this fraud is conceptual then the JREF has no need to tackle it, for any analysis of an idea like pragmatism or science is doing philosophy. But the JREF does not do philosophy. So it is that this post, too, will be policed and tucked away.


Concluding...

The JREF was never pro-science or anti-mystical. The JREF is a sexed-up feudal pragmatism that, like all pragmatisms, is necessarilly void of concepts and debate. Forums and debates are tacked on by the JREF machinery to promote its popularity among its "members", but at the end of the day the JREF feudal pragmatism has nothing to do with debate or science. It is an endeavour of a policing, ruling class, neurotically exploiting popularity through the surge of popularity in science.
"...you meanies were meanies about my Numo tribe story, so I'm going to prove that you are meanies!"
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:31 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Sledge View Post
Cool story, bro.
There, that's better.
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:35 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
There is no JREF idea of reality or science because the description of an idea is not an experimental fact but a philosophy, and JREF does facts, not philosophy.
No.
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:54 AM   #11
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Reality is.
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:01 AM   #12
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What about the philosophy forum?
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Old 26th November 2012, 07:20 AM   #13
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Let's see:

The JREF idea of reality
As a feudal pragmatic totality
Translates in a jiff
To one big hieroglyph
Of square coconuts in a banana tree

(or something... six cuckoo clocks?)
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Last edited by blobru; 26th November 2012 at 07:33 AM. Reason: Euterpe
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Old 26th November 2012, 08:26 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
The JREF is a sexed-up feudal pragmatism
I'll buy that for a dollar!
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Old 26th November 2012, 08:36 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by quarky View Post
What about the philosophy forum?
We don't like to talk about...them.
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Old 26th November 2012, 09:05 AM   #16
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Jonesboy needs to check out the Philosophy subforum, perhaps?

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Old 26th November 2012, 09:21 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by MattusMaximus View Post
Jonesboy needs to check out the Philosophy subforum, perhaps?



Why bother? It's just a barren wasteland.
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Old 26th November 2012, 09:25 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
There is no JREF idea of reality or science because the description of an idea is not an experimental fact but a philosophy, and JREF does facts, not philosophy. It follows that it is impossible for the JREF to have a mission or description of its purpose because any such description is not an experimental fact, but a philosophy. And JREF does not do philosophy.

For the JREF there is no distinction between science or mysticism as these are ideas or philosophies and not experimental results. This means that the JREF vision appears as a name tag, a flag, pinned to a list of uninterpreted experimental results or facts.

Without an idea, mission, purpose or philosophy to its facts the JREF has only one place to go - to go with the facts that put food on the table, facts that serve our needs - pragmatism.

The public face of the JREF
The JREF confuses pragmatism with science, publicly, intentionally. As the JREF cannot give a description of science in its mission statement, for any such description will be philosophy, then all it can offer is pragmatic or useful experimental outcomes which masquerade as science. The JREF encourages the airing of pragmatic facts in its science forums, which is to place them in the wrong category - there are no categories in pragmatism. This is necessary in order to maintain the illusion that the JREF is not just another dreary pragmatic endeavour.

This amounts to conceptual fraud - the JREF is doing philosophy by offering pragmatism as science - but, importantly, because this fraud is conceptual then the JREF has no need to tackle it, for any analysis of an idea like pragmatism or science is doing philosophy. But the JREF does not do philosophy. So it is that this post, too, will be policed and tucked away.


Concluding...

The JREF was never pro-science or anti-mystical. The JREF is a sexed-up feudal pragmatism that, like all pragmatisms, is necessarilly void of concepts and debate. Forums and debates are tacked on by the JREF machinery to promote its popularity among its "members", but at the end of the day the JREF feudal pragmatism has nothing to do with debate or science. It is an endeavour of a policing, ruling class, neurotically exploiting popularity through the surge of popularity in science.
Nice srawmen, when will you actually discuss something.

Science is the study of the apparent nature of the assumed reality, so what?
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Old 26th November 2012, 09:31 AM   #19
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Well,

As long as we've been summoned here, we may as well try to make the best of it.

Does any one know any science stories?
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Old 26th November 2012, 09:44 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
There is no JREF idea of reality or science
Whats your idea of reality or science?

From what ive seen the people running the actual educational foundation agree with the scientific method, or if you are talking about the forum, well that consists of many different individuals, with differing beliefs and opinions, so that broad brush your painting us with must be very heavy and impractical.
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Old 26th November 2012, 09:49 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
The JREF is a sexed-up feudal pragmatism .
Yeth, now bringeth my serving wench and bugger offeth!



Trolling, yer doing it wrong.
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Old 26th November 2012, 10:35 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
There is no JREF idea of reality or science because the description of an idea is not an experimental fact but a philosophy, and JREF does facts, not philosophy. It follows that it is impossible for the JREF to have a mission or description of its purpose because any such description is not an experimental fact, but a philosophy. And JREF does not do philosophy.

For the JREF there is no distinction between science or mysticism as these are ideas or philosophies and not experimental results. This means that the JREF vision appears as a name tag, a flag, pinned to a list of uninterpreted experimental results or facts.

Without an idea, mission, purpose or philosophy to its facts the JREF has only one place to go - to go with the facts that put food on the table, facts that serve our needs - pragmatism.

The public face of the JREF
The JREF confuses pragmatism with science, publicly, intentionally. As the JREF cannot give a description of science in its mission statement, for any such description will be philosophy, then all it can offer is pragmatic or useful experimental outcomes which masquerade as science. The JREF encourages the airing of pragmatic facts in its science forums, which is to place them in the wrong category - there are no categories in pragmatism. This is necessary in order to maintain the illusion that the JREF is not just another dreary pragmatic endeavour.

This amounts to conceptual fraud - the JREF is doing philosophy by offering pragmatism as science - but, importantly, because this fraud is conceptual then the JREF has no need to tackle it, for any analysis of an idea like pragmatism or science is doing philosophy. But the JREF does not do philosophy. So it is that this post, too, will be policed and tucked away.


Concluding...

The JREF was never pro-science or anti-mystical. The JREF is a sexed-up feudal pragmatism that, like all pragmatisms, is necessarilly void of concepts and debate. Forums and debates are tacked on by the JREF machinery to promote its popularity among its "members", but at the end of the day the JREF feudal pragmatism has nothing to do with debate or science. It is an endeavour of a policing, ruling class, neurotically exploiting popularity through the surge of popularity in science.
That would be what I like to call wrong. But, not just wrong - wrong in pretty much every possible way. As that is source normal, it does not concern me. The functional know the reality.
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Old 26th November 2012, 10:36 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
Too much whine... not enough cheese.
Sounded quite cheesy - old moldy cheese it is true, but cheesy........

Last edited by fuelair; 26th November 2012 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 26th November 2012, 11:26 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
There is no JREF idea of reality or science because the description of an idea is not an experimental fact but a philosophy, and JREF does facts, not philosophy. It follows that it is impossible for the JREF to have a mission or description of its purpose because any such description is not an experimental fact, but a philosophy. And JREF does not do philosophy.
....
Quote snipped for brievety.

I am sure we are ALL interrested into knowing what that fake Numo tribe think about all of this.

With batted (or should I say baited?) breath.
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Old 26th November 2012, 12:12 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Jonesboy View Post
There is no JREF idea of reality or science because the description of an idea is not an experimental fact but a philosophy, and JREF does facts, not philosophy. It follows that it is impossible for the JREF to have a mission or description of its purpose because any such description is not an experimental fact, but a philosophy. And JREF does not do philosophy.
You keep using this word "philosophy". But I don't think it means what you think it means.

The JREF does not deal in philosophical debates. It does uses standard common English definitions to describe that which is commonly agreed to exist even by those that is has differences of opinion.

Definitions and ideas are tools of philosophy. They are not exclusive to philosophy and are not philosophy itself.
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Old 26th November 2012, 12:35 PM   #26
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Sometimes I like to imagine we're all rolling initiative with a D20 before we all take turns replying to inane assertions like the OP.
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Old 26th November 2012, 01:08 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
Definitions and ideas are tools of philosophy. They are not exclusive to philosophy and are not philosophy itself.
I don't think Wittgenstein would have entirely agreed.
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Old 26th November 2012, 01:19 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Halfcentaur View Post
Sometimes I like to imagine we're all rolling initiative with a D20 before we all take turns replying to inane assertions like the OP.
I cast Summon Bigger Fish.
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Old 26th November 2012, 01:37 PM   #29
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I sure hope this has nothing to do with my inappropriate description of protons recently.
I have punished me for that, and it won't happen again, for quite awhile.
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Old 26th November 2012, 01:43 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by quarky View Post
I sure hope this has nothing to do with my inappropriate description of protons recently.
I have punished me for that, and it won't happen again, for quite awhile.
*rushes off to start "Protons Gone Wild" website and live chat*
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Old 26th November 2012, 02:18 PM   #31
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What is feudal pragmatism? Is it pragmatism that has a retainer system of vassals?

I wish all philosophy came with knights
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Old 26th November 2012, 02:32 PM   #32
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Feudal Pragmatism?
Does the mean the JREF has membership in the Society For Creative Anarchronism?
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Old 26th November 2012, 02:34 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Feudal Pragmatism?
Does the mean the JREF has membership in the Society For Creative Anarchronism?
YETH!!! and ath one of my vathalth I command thee to do my bidding and thmite thith commoner to the fulletht degree!!!
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Old 26th November 2012, 02:53 PM   #34
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The OP is so wrong in so many places I don't know where to start. Science, to begin with, is empiricism, not philosophy, of course there is "philosophy of science" which describes how science works, but is not science itself. And an idea that can be tested is in fact the whole point of science, so the confusion in that regard is simply twisted to bits.

The rest, well, I can't even make enough sense of the word salad to analyze.
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Old 26th November 2012, 02:54 PM   #35
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This is the second Jonesboy thread I've read. I will not be making that mistake a 3rd time...
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Old 26th November 2012, 03:08 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by quarky View Post
Well,

As long as we've been summoned here, we may as well try to make the best of it.

Does any one know any science stories?
Stop me if you've heard this one: archaeologist walks into a Numo bar, asks for the time...
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Old 26th November 2012, 03:32 PM   #37
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sforzando

Cool name, s4zando!
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Old 26th November 2012, 04:40 PM   #38
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Feudal pragmatism Hall of Fame:
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Old 26th November 2012, 06:20 PM   #39
xterra
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As long as we're not discussing the original post, we might as well discuss something.

Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
...

With batted (or should I say baited?) breath.

Neither. You should write "bated" which is a form of "abated," meaning lessened.
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Old 26th November 2012, 10:09 PM   #40
quarky
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How about discussing the complex role of fungi in our biosphere?
That would be pretty cool. I'd sure like to learn more about that.

I'm always game for ants, too. I know more about them than the fungi. But who doesn't?
The fungi thing is way strange and big, and we don't know anywhere near enough about it.

If I read the thread title correctly, this could be an almost unique, wide open science thread. I've always wanted one of these; a place to drop an occasional idea or link of interest; maybe it doesn't deserve its own thread; yet it deserves a mention.

Bisecting a mobious strip, length wise is pretty cool. Stuff like that.

Can we mods?
Oh please?
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