|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
26th November 2012, 05:59 AM | #1 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,147
|
The JREF idea of Reality
There is no JREF idea of reality or science because the description of an idea is not an experimental fact but a philosophy, and JREF does facts, not philosophy. It follows that it is impossible for the JREF to have a mission or description of its purpose because any such description is not an experimental fact, but a philosophy. And JREF does not do philosophy.
For the JREF there is no distinction between science or mysticism as these are ideas or philosophies and not experimental results. This means that the JREF vision appears as a name tag, a flag, pinned to a list of uninterpreted experimental results or facts. Without an idea, mission, purpose or philosophy to its facts the JREF has only one place to go - to go with the facts that put food on the table, facts that serve our needs - pragmatism. The public face of the JREF The JREF confuses pragmatism with science, publicly, intentionally. As the JREF cannot give a description of science in its mission statement, for any such description will be philosophy, then all it can offer is pragmatic or useful experimental outcomes which masquerade as science. The JREF encourages the airing of pragmatic facts in its science forums, which is to place them in the wrong category - there are no categories in pragmatism. This is necessary in order to maintain the illusion that the JREF is not just another dreary pragmatic endeavour. This amounts to conceptual fraud - the JREF is doing philosophy by offering pragmatism as science - but, importantly, because this fraud is conceptual then the JREF has no need to tackle it, for any analysis of an idea like pragmatism or science is doing philosophy. But the JREF does not do philosophy. So it is that this post, too, will be policed and tucked away. Concluding... The JREF was never pro-science or anti-mystical. The JREF is a sexed-up feudal pragmatism that, like all pragmatisms, is necessarilly void of concepts and debate. Forums and debates are tacked on by the JREF machinery to promote its popularity among its "members", but at the end of the day the JREF feudal pragmatism has nothing to do with debate or science. It is an endeavour of a policing, ruling class, neurotically exploiting popularity through the surge of popularity in science. |
26th November 2012, 06:02 AM | #2 |
Grammaton Cleric
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,114
|
Cool story, bro.
|
__________________
"The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain. |
|
26th November 2012, 06:06 AM | #3 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 9,580
|
Too much whine... not enough cheese.
|
__________________
---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000. |
|
26th November 2012, 06:11 AM | #4 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,155
|
Long time lurker, first time poster. Wiki'd pragmatism. (can't do links). Wiki says its a philosophy. And JREF doesn't do philosophy, it seems. Carry on, and hi all!
|
26th November 2012, 06:17 AM | #5 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,690
|
|
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd |
|
26th November 2012, 06:20 AM | #6 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 7,070
|
Huh?
That is all. |
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda |
|
26th November 2012, 06:23 AM | #7 |
Chordate
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cape Town. Still not mugged. Plenty of chameleons though, and stepped on a cobra.
Posts: 1,684
|
Yes, well.
I have an inkling that life will go on despite these |
__________________
They had no god; they had no gods; they had no faith. What they appear to have had is a working metaphor. - Ursula K. Le Guin, "Always Coming Home" |
|
26th November 2012, 06:28 AM | #8 |
Membership Drive
Co-Ordinator, Russell's Antinomy Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: ...1888 miles from home by the shortest route without tolls...
Posts: 17,348
|
|
__________________
"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
|
26th November 2012, 06:54 AM | #11 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 28,766
|
Reality is.
|
26th November 2012, 07:01 AM | #12 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,121
|
What about the philosophy forum?
|
26th November 2012, 07:20 AM | #13 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,900
|
Let's see:
The JREF idea of reality As a feudal pragmatic totality Translates in a jiff To one big hieroglyph Of square coconuts in a banana tree (or something... six cuckoo clocks?) |
__________________
"Say to them, 'I am Nobody!'" -- Ulysses to the Cyclops "Never mind. I can't read." -- Hokulele to the Easter Bunny |
|
26th November 2012, 08:26 AM | #14 |
Muse
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 623
|
|
26th November 2012, 08:36 AM | #15 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 5,229
|
|
26th November 2012, 09:05 AM | #16 |
Intellectual Gladiator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,948
|
Jonesboy needs to check out the Philosophy subforum, perhaps?
|
__________________
Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We ****** up the air, the water, we ****** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?" -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness |
|
26th November 2012, 09:21 AM | #17 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,690
|
|
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd |
|
26th November 2012, 09:25 AM | #18 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: central Illinois
Posts: 39,700
|
|
__________________
I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
|
26th November 2012, 09:31 AM | #19 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,121
|
Well,
As long as we've been summoned here, we may as well try to make the best of it. Does any one know any science stories? |
26th November 2012, 09:44 AM | #20 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,355
|
Whats your idea of reality or science?
From what ive seen the people running the actual educational foundation agree with the scientific method, or if you are talking about the forum, well that consists of many different individuals, with differing beliefs and opinions, so that broad brush your painting us with must be very heavy and impractical. |
26th November 2012, 09:49 AM | #21 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,628
|
|
26th November 2012, 10:35 AM | #22 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,581
|
|
26th November 2012, 10:36 AM | #23 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,581
|
|
26th November 2012, 11:26 AM | #24 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,571
|
|
26th November 2012, 12:12 PM | #25 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,066
|
You keep using this word "philosophy". But I don't think it means what you think it means.
The JREF does not deal in philosophical debates. It does uses standard common English definitions to describe that which is commonly agreed to exist even by those that is has differences of opinion. Definitions and ideas are tools of philosophy. They are not exclusive to philosophy and are not philosophy itself. |
__________________
45 es un titere |
|
26th November 2012, 12:35 PM | #26 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,620
|
Sometimes I like to imagine we're all rolling initiative with a D20 before we all take turns replying to inane assertions like the OP.
|
26th November 2012, 01:08 PM | #27 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,330
|
|
26th November 2012, 01:19 PM | #28 |
Grammaton Cleric
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,114
|
|
__________________
"The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain. |
|
26th November 2012, 01:37 PM | #29 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,121
|
I sure hope this has nothing to do with my inappropriate description of protons recently.
I have punished me for that, and it won't happen again, for quite awhile. |
26th November 2012, 01:43 PM | #30 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,628
|
|
26th November 2012, 02:18 PM | #31 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 397
|
What is feudal pragmatism? Is it pragmatism that has a retainer system of vassals?
I wish all philosophy came with knights |
26th November 2012, 02:32 PM | #32 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 60,375
|
Feudal Pragmatism?
Does the mean the JREF has membership in the Society For Creative Anarchronism? |
26th November 2012, 02:34 PM | #33 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,628
|
|
26th November 2012, 02:53 PM | #34 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 21,382
|
The OP is so wrong in so many places I don't know where to start. Science, to begin with, is empiricism, not philosophy, of course there is "philosophy of science" which describes how science works, but is not science itself. And an idea that can be tested is in fact the whole point of science, so the confusion in that regard is simply twisted to bits.
The rest, well, I can't even make enough sense of the word salad to analyze. |
26th November 2012, 02:54 PM | #35 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,186
|
This is the second Jonesboy thread I've read. I will not be making that mistake a 3rd time...
|
__________________
"The sleeping and the dead Are but as pictures. 'Tis the eye of childhood That fears a painted devil." --Shakespeare - Macbeth |
|
26th November 2012, 03:08 PM | #36 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,155
|
|
26th November 2012, 03:32 PM | #37 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,001
|
|
26th November 2012, 04:40 PM | #38 |
Optical Allusion
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 767
|
Feudal pragmatism Hall of Fame:
|
26th November 2012, 06:20 PM | #39 |
So far, so good...
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: On the outskirts of Nowhere; the middle was too crowded
Posts: 4,047
|
|
26th November 2012, 10:09 PM | #40 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,121
|
How about discussing the complex role of fungi in our biosphere?
That would be pretty cool. I'd sure like to learn more about that. I'm always game for ants, too. I know more about them than the fungi. But who doesn't? The fungi thing is way strange and big, and we don't know anywhere near enough about it. If I read the thread title correctly, this could be an almost unique, wide open science thread. I've always wanted one of these; a place to drop an occasional idea or link of interest; maybe it doesn't deserve its own thread; yet it deserves a mention. Bisecting a mobious strip, length wise is pretty cool. Stuff like that. Can we mods? Oh please? |
Thread Tools | |
|
|