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View Poll Results: Which nation is currently the most #$%@ed up?
America: Shutdowns, walls, investigations, arrests. 10 19.61%
Britain: Brexit, hard or soft or maybe another referendum, let's try not to think too hard about the Irish border issue 15 29.41%
Venezuela: Hyperinflation, weight loss, loss of international recognition, flight of educated classes 18 35.29%
Belgium: Government falls 0 0%
France: Yellow vest protests 0 0%
Effed up nation of your choice 8 15.69%
It's all good, nothing is wrong. 0 0%
On Planet X and in Germany, things are functioning really pretty well right now. 0 0%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 31st January 2019, 02:15 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
India
Not quite yet, but if the Government continues it drive to make India a Theocracy, it will definenly be in the competition.
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:18 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Russia.
Putin is losing popularity, failing to deliver the prosperity he promised. So the only path now is more oppression.
Now are we need is a Rasputin equivalent to come along...
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:19 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
I'd hardly call this tolerance (and there are plenty, plenty more where that came from). Perhaps it would be better not to get one's information from corporate publications with a vested interest in discrediting such movements.
Funny, that sounds like what the exteme left said about any criticism of Uncle Joe....
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:21 PM   #44
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I picked the US because the very foundations of our institutionalized system of democracy are being tested to their limits.

Venezuela would be first if it had a couple hundred year history of things actually working correctly.
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Old 1st February 2019, 09:44 AM   #45
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Yemen and Somalia by a long way.
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Old 1st February 2019, 09:46 AM   #46
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I'm sorry, crescent, but the basic premise of the OP is horrifyingly naive.

What exactly was your reasoning, when you decided to list those countries under that heading?
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:08 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm sorry, crescent, but the basic premise of the OP is horrifyingly naive.

What exactly was your reasoning, when you decided to list those countries under that heading?
I previously explained that in the fourth post of the thread:

Originally Posted by crescent View Post
These are good points. Afghanistan falls into that category as well. I was thinking a bit more along the lines of nations that are usually somewhat stable and relatively prosperous - although Venezuela doesn't quite meet that standard.

We're at a point where the nations that are traditionally thought of stable world leaders are really just flailing.
I was thinking of which nations have more or less devolved - not of those that have been basket cases for years, or which transitioned from tyrannical dictatorships into civil war.

Maybe including "effed up nation of your choice" was a poor option, as it opened up the thread to including the usual basket case nations, which was not my intent.



ETA: A better phrasing of what I meant to get at in the poll might have been: "Of those nations which have in recent history been relatively prosperous and stable, which currently has the most effed up politics"

Apologies for my sometimes poor communication efforts.

Last edited by crescent; 1st February 2019 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:27 AM   #48
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I voted USA just because I have to live in it, but lots of "good" choices. Should have had multivoting.
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Old 1st February 2019, 12:14 PM   #49
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Saudi Arabia, clear winner
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Old 1st February 2019, 12:25 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Saudi Arabia, clear winner
Can I put in a bid for the uk under Theresa May? She is risking not only a departure from the UK without any deal, but the possible secession of N Ireland and Scotland from the United Kingdom if things go badly wrong.

Meanwhile, xenophobes emerge from their lairs and wander about in public, causing widespread consternation.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 09:39 AM   #51
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If we're only looking at countries that used to be ok, I'd say the UK. Brexit is probably worse than Trump and his nonsense. Venezuela is obviously doing worse, but I'm not entirely sure it ever made it into the "first world" to begin with.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 09:49 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
If we're only looking at countries that used to be ok, I'd say the UK.
By what metrics?
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Old 2nd February 2019, 10:03 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
By what metrics?
I noted some in post #50. But no doubt you can think of more.

The UK, you will be aware, was the centre of the largest Empire the world has ever known a mere century ago. Its fall has been spectacular and rapid. So much so, that a future Edward Gibbon will be able to compress the history of its decline and fall into a single volume.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 10:08 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
I noted some in post #50. But no doubt you can think of more.
I asked by what metrics.

Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
The UK, you will be aware, was the centre of the largest Empire the world has ever known a mere century ago. Its fall has been spectacular and rapid. So much so, that a future Edward Gibbon will be able to compress the history of its decline and fall into a single volume.
I didn't know you were a fan of colonialism.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 10:12 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I asked by what metrics.



I didn't know you were a fan of colonialism.
You still don't. I like multi volume histories about the fall of empires.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 10:32 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
By what metrics?
The OP said in post 47: "ETA: A better phrasing of what I meant to get at in the poll might have been: "Of those nations which have in recent history been relatively prosperous and stable, which currently has the most effed up politics"

Apologies for my sometimes poor communication efforts."

My understanding of Brexit is that y'all are going to have some unavoidable and serious problems with imports very soon. You won't be starving to death or anything, but it'll limit food options a lot. Also other goods. Your overall standard of living will be affected significantly for a while.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 11:15 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
The OP said in post 47: "ETA: A better phrasing of what I meant to get at in the poll might have been: "Of those nations which have in recent history been relatively prosperous and stable, which currently has the most effed up politics"

Apologies for my sometimes poor communication efforts."

My understanding of Brexit is that y'all are going to have some unavoidable and serious problems with imports very soon. You won't be starving to death or anything, but it'll limit food options a lot. Also other goods. Your overall standard of living will be affected significantly for a while.
OK, these are things you speculate might happen. The question is, "Which nation currently has the most..." That's why I'm asking for some metrics regarding the UK, to gauge why you think it currently has the most messed up politics.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 11:22 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
OK, these are things you speculate might happen. The question is, "Which nation currently has the most..." That's why I'm asking for some metrics regarding the UK, to gauge why you think it currently has the most messed up politics.
My understanding is that those things are so overwhelmingly likely, calling it "might" is just a technicality.

UK wins in the "currently has the most effed up politics" award in the category of "those nations which have in recent history been relatively prosperous and stable".
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Old 2nd February 2019, 11:27 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
My understanding is that those things are so overwhelmingly likely, calling it "might" is just a technicality.

UK wins in the "currently has the most effed up politics" award in the category of "those nations which have in recent history been relatively prosperous and stable".
I'm not disputing your right to choose it, I'm trying to figure out why you chose it. It appears you did so on the basis of doomsday predictions which you believe will come to pass. The facts are that all the current metrics of the UK are in pretty good shape as compared to historically, with measures such as employment showing the best figures in two generations, and there is no indication in the markets that things will get significantly worse.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 11:35 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I'm not disputing your right to choose it, I'm trying to figure out why you chose it. It appears you did so on the basis of doomsday predictions which you believe will come to pass. The facts are that all the current metrics of the UK are in pretty good shape as compared to historically, with measures such as employment showing the best figures in two generations, and there is no indication in the markets that things will get significantly worse.
The UK is the Fyre festival the day before the festival-goers were supposed to start arriving. The fact that you're calling what I'm saying "doomsday predictions" just reinforces the point.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 11:42 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I'm not disputing your right to choose it, I'm trying to figure out why you chose it. It appears you did so on the basis of doomsday predictions which you believe will come to pass. The facts are that all the current metrics of the UK are in pretty good shape as compared to historically, with measures such as employment showing the best figures in two generations, and there is no indication in the markets that things will get significantly worse.
That's right, I do not doubt. And that's the economic situation. But the politics has become messed up, with for example the government suffering the worst defeat ever recorded in Parliament, and a situation in Ireland that admits of no plausible solution, and is loaded with political perils.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 12:56 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
The UK is the Fyre festival the day before the festival-goers were supposed to start arriving. The fact that you're calling what I'm saying "doomsday predictions" just reinforces the point.
There is no evidence whatsoever that this is the case.

Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
That's right, I do not doubt. And that's the economic situation. But the politics has become messed up, with for example the government suffering the worst defeat ever recorded in Parliament, and a situation in Ireland that admits of no plausible solution, and is loaded with political perils.
The state of politics is tumultuous, but in the context of this thread hardly exceptional, nor in any way surprising given the task at hand. Even if you narrow down the choice of countries to those which have been historically stable, the UK barely figures. The US government was shut down for a month and soon it will be again; some European governments have undergone massive swings to the right due to populism, others are on the verge of bankruptcy. Even if you further restrict the question by talking of BREXIT, bear in mind that the rest of Europe will feel the effects a no deal BREXIT too.

The truth is that the UK is doing damn well, and will continue to do damn well, and all this talk of doomsday scenarios is self-indulgent hysteria.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 01:56 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
There is no evidence whatsoever that this is the case.



The state of politics is tumultuous, but in the context of this thread hardly exceptional, nor in any way surprising given the task at hand. Even if you narrow down the choice of countries to those which have been historically stable, the UK barely figures. The US government was shut down for a month and soon it will be again; some European governments have undergone massive swings to the right due to populism, others are on the verge of bankruptcy. Even if you further restrict the question by talking of BREXIT, bear in mind that the rest of Europe will feel the effects a no deal BREXIT too.

The truth is that the UK is doing damn well, and will continue to do damn well, and all this talk of doomsday scenarios is self-indulgent hysteria.
The only expression of self indulgence is emanating from those who say everything will be all right, because we will continue to do damned well and it's the remaining eu states which will suffer, not us. That's self indulgence. Or self delusion. I agree it's not hysteria; it might rather be described as torpor.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 02:07 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
There is no evidence whatsoever that this is the case.
Yeah, that's exactly what the Fyre festival organizers said while they were setting up the FEMA emergency tents they'd marketed as "luxury villas", too. Collective denial is a helluva drug.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 02:11 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Yeah, that's exactly what the Fyre festival organizers said while they were setting up the FEMA emergency tents they'd marketed as "luxury villas", too.
In that case I must be wrong...
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Old 3rd February 2019, 03:11 AM   #66
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Zimbabwe has been described as a kleptocratic elite and has got even worse since Mugabe was removed. Zambia seems to have made a better job of things for some reason perhaps because they are more capable there. Most people turn a blind eye to it all unless regime change is attempted as in Venezuela or Iran, and the media take an interest, or regime change is attempted in America.
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Old 4th February 2019, 03:30 AM   #67
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Somalia is often described as completely unrestrained capitalism.

I think that is a bit harsh.

Completely unrestrained capitalism would be much worse.
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Old 4th February 2019, 05:33 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Somalia is often described as completely unrestrained capitalism.
... by idiots who don't actually understand capitalism.
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