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Tags Brazil politics , CJ Hopkins , Democratic Socialism , fascism , Jair Bolsonaro , Pepe Escobar

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Old 31st October 2018, 04:32 PM   #81
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The irony is his promise to loosen Brazil's gun laws (which seem to totally ineffective anyway) might end up arming his opposition.
And in a country as racially as diverse as Brazil, his openly appealing to Brazil's white minority is very dangerous.
And ,of course, his attitude towards gays is beyond contempt and probably the worst thing about him.
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Old 31st October 2018, 04:56 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
You're saying its hard. I'm saying it's impossible.

I see the need, but not the solution.

Maybe sanctions would work in response to accelerated logging? Everybody on this planet breathes air. Maybe we finally have a topic on which we can get a kind of global consensus. it's less abstract than global warming. And less open to pseudo-scientific distortions.
I agree with your assessment, however sanctions may be very difficult also.
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Old 31st October 2018, 06:21 PM   #83
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I think sanctions are seldom effective, but they do serve a useful purpose to put a government on record that they disapprove and will not reward a dictator's actions.
Largely symbolic, yes, but symbolism can be important.
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Old 31st October 2018, 06:24 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
You quote me saying it would be hard to say it would be hard. Yes, it would be hard. Like I said: That's why we can't let fascists get elected.
But if the people of another country are stupid enough to elect a fascist to office, there is not much other countries can do about it.
Unless you want countries constanly interfering in the internal affairs of another. Which will result in endless war.
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Old 31st October 2018, 06:32 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
This is also the guy who has raided university libraries to confiscate and destroy books about fascism, and who has vowed to deforest the Amazon and drive out the native population, who has promised to expel all his political rivals from the country. And that's just scratching the surface. He's a genuine monster.

He won't just be terrible for the people of Brazil, he will be terrible for the world.
Considering the robbery perpetrated on the Brazilian people by the previous two presidents and their political establishment, it's hard to imagine how he could be any worse.
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Old 31st October 2018, 07:17 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post

Maybe sanctions would work in response to accelerated logging? Everybody on this planet breathes air. Maybe we finally have a topic on which we can get a kind of global consensus. it's less abstract than global warming. And less open to pseudo-scientific distortions.
I doubt running out of air in 4000 years is something that you're going to get people worked up about now.
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Old 31st October 2018, 07:41 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Considering the robbery perpetrated on the Brazilian people by the previous two presidents and their political establishment, it's hard to imagine how he could be any worse.
Nope, actually it's pretty easy.
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Old 1st November 2018, 01:35 AM   #88
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Lessons from Bolsonaro's Victory - Glenn Greenwald

Glenn Greenwald's take is also that comparing Bolsonaro to Trump is seriously underestimating the dangers here. The orange blabbermouth is well insulated by strong institutions. Samba Hitler is connected to a recent military dictatorship in a much weaker state. And his ideas are much more extreme, seeing communists behind every tree.
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Old 1st November 2018, 01:40 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The irony is his promise to loosen Brazil's gun laws (which seem to totally ineffective anyway) might end up arming his opposition.
<snip>
You would think that surviving (with injuries) an assassination attempt would make Bolsonaro more wary about making more available devices that - if wielded - could make an 2nd attempt more successful, but that's just me ...
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Old 1st November 2018, 04:10 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Considering the robbery perpetrated on the Brazilian people by the previous two presidents and their political establishment, it's hard to imagine how he could be any worse.
I am sure people were saying that in Germany in 1933.
if you don't get why basically wanting to give the police a licence to shoot anybody seen as a menace, and having a virulent hatred toward a large segment of your population (In this guy's case, the LGBT community) is a lot worse the simple incompetence and corruption, then you are hopeless.
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Last edited by dudalb; 1st November 2018 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 1st November 2018, 04:13 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Lessons from Bolsonaro's Victory - Glenn Greenwald

Glenn Greenwald's take is also that comparing Bolsonaro to Trump is seriously underestimating the dangers here. The orange blabbermouth is well insulated by strong institutions. Samba Hitler is connected to a recent military dictatorship in a much weaker state. And his ideas are much more extreme, seeing communists behind every tree.
The US has a long history of democracy..however imperfectly it has functioned at times, but Democracy in Brazil is a recent development and much more fragile. One is reminded of Germany in the early 1930's where they did not have much experience with Democracy...and that turned out to be a major factor in it's demise.
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Old 1st November 2018, 05:17 PM   #92
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-latin-america

Quote:
Bolton praises Bolsonaro while declaring ‘troika of tyranny’ in Latin America
Bolton hailed Brazilian president-elect a ‘positive sign’ as he announced new sanctions against Venezuela and Cuba
Quote:
John Bolton has welcomed Brazil’s far-right president-elect Jair Bolsonaro as a “positive sign” for Latin America as he hailed a new ally against what Bolton called a “troika of tyranny”: Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua.
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Old 1st November 2018, 05:34 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Nope, actually it's pretty easy.

Very, very, very easy if one knows anything at all about history, or even present day horrors.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 02:45 AM   #94
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I'm working my way through the excellent Brazillian Tropa de Elite (Elite Squad) films, part one and two.

Apart from being kick-ass action films, these films explore the complexity of fighting crime in Rio. The protagonist is a very Bolsonaro-like character who heads a paramilitary part of the Rio police BOPE (think neo-fascist SWAT team).

In part two he goes into politics and uses his newfound power to expand the BOPE, increase their ranks, outfit them with armoured cars and helicopters and goes straight to war with Favela drug gangs. What happens next is...

..his crusade succeeds in weeding out the gangs. But he did not expect that this would create a power vacuum that is subsequently filled by...his own police force who move in to deal drugs, extort shopkeepers, tax the poor etc etc.


I recommend the films, and I'm afraid that they might turn out to be quite prophetic.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 02:46 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Overseeing a shrinking economy, double-digit inflation, a rise in violent crime, one of the biggest government corruption scandals in recorded history, having their prime candidate in jail and his replacement presenting himself as a stand-in for the incarcerated guy rather than a political force of his own.

I'm no expert on Brazil (never been there), but I suspect they also went way too fast with a number of social things like teaching kids about LGBT issues. Bolsenaro made show of that, waving some gay-friendly children's book around during a debate. In a conservative country that can cause a backlash, as people feel their values are attacked.
Biggest political scandal in history. There must be better people out there than that.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 02:47 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
It would be really hard, yes. That's why - in order to protect democracy - we must do everything possible not to allow fascists to be elected. Once they're in, they are like cockroaches.
You have to have to vote for as well.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 04:25 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
I'm working my way through the excellent Brazillian Tropa de Elite (Elite Squad) films, part one and two.

Apart from being kick-ass action films, these films explore the complexity of fighting crime in Rio. The protagonist is a very Bolsonaro-like character who heads a paramilitary part of the Rio police BOPE (think neo-fascist SWAT team).

In part two he goes into politics and uses his newfound power to expand the BOPE, increase their ranks, outfit them with armoured cars and helicopters and goes straight to war with Favela drug gangs. What happens next is...

..his crusade succeeds in weeding out the gangs. But he did not expect that this would create a power vacuum that is subsequently filled by...his own police force who move in to deal drugs, extort shopkeepers, tax the poor etc etc.





I recommend the films, and I'm afraid that they might turn out to be quite prophetic.
FIlm probably cashes in on Brazil's history of police Death Squads.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 02:35 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
FIlm probably cashes in on Brazil's history of police Death Squads.
Quote:
BOPE has generated notoriety due to their role in the violent drug war in the favelas of Rio de Janeiro and they have been referred to as a "Death Squad" by multiple newspapers.[4][5][6] One aspect that has been pointed out specifically is their logo, which bears a knife in a skull over crossed pistols (popularly known in Brazil as "faca na caveira", Portuguese for "knife in the skull").[5][7] According to the official BOPE website, the knife in the skull symbolizes "victory over death" and the crossed pistols are the symbol of the military police.[8]
Wiki link
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Old 15th November 2018, 04:36 PM   #99
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Hi i'm logging in after a long absence from this forum.

The answer to the title of this thread is: NO!

Pakistan is not *about* to elect a true fascist, they've always had true Islamofascists in power.

(Brazil was replaced by Pakistan as the 5th most populous nation about a year ago:lol

Now as to the 6th most populous country on Earth, Brazil, no Jair Bolsonaro is not a fascist neither will he implement anything dictatorial or fascist in any sense.

He was elected 3 weeks ago and is forming his government now. Most of the negative things you have heard about Bolsonaro is actually false: edited interviews, things taken out of context, outright lies, distortions.

I'll be back for more if there is response here. Need reasons to return to the forum.
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Old 15th November 2018, 04:42 PM   #100
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I Suspect we have a Boslinaro supporter here.....
Should be fun watching him explain away his hero's attitude toward the LGBL community.
And nice with the "it's all fake news" defense...
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Old 15th November 2018, 05:27 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by mopc View Post
Need reasons to return to the forum.

Can't help you there, left are mostly streamlined, clueless pseudo-skeptical clowns all the way down.

Pakistan seems to be on a good way after the election of Imran Khan, though. His recent China visit was very promising.

As to Brazil, well, this guy Bolsonaro is certainly a puppet run by the military, but I have a hard time hoping for a benign military dictatorship. Although I know that South America is a story of its own. So far, he looks as ugly as possible.
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Old 16th November 2018, 04:40 PM   #102
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Puppet run by the military? Keep trying
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Old 16th November 2018, 04:41 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I Suspect we have a Boslinaro supporter here.....
Should be fun watching him explain away his hero's attitude toward the LGBL community.
And nice with the "it's all fake news" defense...
I support some of his positions. Probably most of them. But not the fake ones youve heard on mainstream media.
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Old 17th November 2018, 04:56 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
You can't racially cleanse Brazil, those people will start a civil war like no other.
Theoretically you could via racial whitening, something Brazil did in the past. It would take a hell of a lot of time to do it given how many people there are in Brazil.
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Old 17th November 2018, 02:35 PM   #105
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And the term "Bolsonaro supporter" is clumsy, we call them "Bolsominions" here.
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Old 1st January 2019, 05:14 PM   #106
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He's now in office. Trump tweeted some hours ago

Quote:
Congratulations to President @JairBolsonaro who just made a great inauguration speech - the U.S.A. is with you!

to which Bolsonaro replied

Quote:
Dear Mr. President @realDonalTrump, I truly appreciate your words of encouragement. Together, under God’s protection, we shall bring prosperity and progress to our people!
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Old 1st January 2019, 05:48 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
He's now in office. Trump tweeted some hours ago




to which Bolsonaro replied
****!
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Old 2nd January 2019, 01:21 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by mopc View Post
I support some of his positions. Probably most of them. But not the fake ones youve heard on mainstream media.
Here's a good reason for you to return and stay a really long time:

Give us all the True Truth about Bolsonaro and his various positions. Be as specific as you can. Lay on the facts and figures. Let's have numbing detail. Cite your sources.

It would be heartening to learn that Bolso is not as bad as we've been led to believe. But conviction won't come all at once. It'll be up to you to persuade people that he's an okay leader for a country like Brazil, in fact and not just in your opinion.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:10 PM   #109
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An early move:

"Hours after taking office, Brazil’s new president, Jair Bolsonaro, has launched an assault on environmental and Amazon protections with an executive order transferring the regulation and creation of new indigenous reserves to the agriculture ministry – which is controlled by the powerful agribusiness lobby."
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Old 5th February 2019, 02:40 PM   #110
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It's just heart-warming.

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Old 5th February 2019, 03:12 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Just paying back the people who put him in office......

Things are going to get very bad for Brazil.
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