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Tags 2020 elections , Elizabeth Warren , presidential candidates , racial categorization

View Poll Results: If Elected, Would Warren Be the First Native American President?
Yes 3 6.67%
No 31 68.89%
On Planet X, Master Blaster runs Bartertown 11 24.44%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 7th February 2019, 09:16 AM   #1
theprestige
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If Elected, Would Warren Be the First Native American President?

The twist is that Planet X is post-apocalyptic Earth.
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Old 7th February 2019, 12:03 PM   #2
Norman Alexander
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According to Donny, she would be the first Disney Princess elected president.
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Old 7th February 2019, 12:38 PM   #3
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To the Orignal Poster:
'
Way too obvious dude.way too obvious.
I
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Old 7th February 2019, 12:39 PM   #4
theprestige
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
To the Orignal Poster:
'
Way too obvious dude.way too obvious.
I
Sometimes it's fun to ask a simple question, if only to see how complicated some people try to make their answer.
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Old 7th February 2019, 12:41 PM   #5
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No.

/thread
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Old 7th February 2019, 12:44 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sometimes it's fun to ask a simple question, if only to see how complicated some people try to make their answer.
There's a term for that, isn't there?
Gargoyling....
No, that's not it.

Orcing......
Not that either.

Gremlining....
Closer, but still not quite.
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Old 7th February 2019, 12:55 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sometimes it's fun to ask a simple question, if only to see how complicated some people try to make their answer.
This is not one of those times.
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Old 7th February 2019, 12:57 PM   #8
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
This is not one of those times.
If you're not having fun, you don't have to respond.
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Old 7th February 2019, 01:02 PM   #9
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You know what? Master Blaster is running Bartertown. People thought auntie Entity was a bit too standoffish and shady.

Also: no. Not even in a Rachel Dolezal kind of way.
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Old 7th February 2019, 06:56 PM   #10
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No.

I don't believe in claiming some tiny portion of your ancestry as your ethnic identity.

Also Obama isn't the first black president. He's (maybe) the first mixed black (Kenyan) and white American president.
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Old 7th February 2019, 07:22 PM   #11
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
No.

I don't believe in claiming some tiny portion of your ancestry as your ethnic identity.

Also Obama isn't the first black president. He's (maybe) the first mixed black (Kenyan) and white American president.
I keep thinking this joke will get old for me, but it just doesn't:

Billy Clinton was the first black president. Barack Obama was the first woman president. Hillary Clinton would have been the first gay president. Elizabeth Warren will be the first Native American president.

And Donald Trump, of course, is the first human president.
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Old 7th February 2019, 07:49 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I keep thinking this joke will get old for me, but it just doesn't:

Billy Clinton was the first black president. Barack Obama was the first woman president. Hillary Clinton would have been the first gay president. Elizabeth Warren will be the first Native American president.

And Donald Trump, of course, is the first human president.
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Old 7th February 2019, 08:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I wouldn't expect an Australian to understand a joke premised on a uniquely American situation, but this might help:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1...5/comment-6543
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Old 7th February 2019, 08:19 PM   #14
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I suspect others have had as much Indian blood.

We have had a president with an adopted Indian child.
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Old 7th February 2019, 08:21 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
I suspect others have had as much Indian blood.

We have had a president with an adopted Indian child.
I cringe when I see that.
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Old 7th February 2019, 08:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
No.

I don't believe in claiming some tiny portion of your ancestry as your ethnic identity.

Also Obama isn't the first black president. He's (maybe) the first mixed black (Kenyan) and white American president.
Am I not the product of all of my ancestors?

Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I cringe when I see that.
The times they are a changin'------ but they change slowly.
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Old 7th February 2019, 08:44 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Am I not the product of all of my ancestors?
Sure, but I know people invariably get pigeonholed into one of a few select "racial groups" when push comes to shove.

It just makes me wince.
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Old 8th February 2019, 11:14 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I don't believe in claiming some tiny portion of your ancestry as your ethnic identity.
One-drop rule
Quote:
The one-drop rule is a social and legal principle of racial classification that was historically prominent in the United States in the 20th century. It asserted that any person with even one ancestor of sub-Saharan African ancestry ("one drop" of black blood) is considered black (Negro in historical terms).

This concept became codified into the law of some states in the early 20th century.
You may not 'believe' in it, but for part of US history it was a fact. And not by choice for those being labeled.

Quote:
Also Obama isn't the first black president. He's (maybe) the first mixed black (Kenyan) and white American president.
Obama was born in Hawaii and is a US citizen. His father was a black Kenyan - and Kenya is in Africa, so...

African Americans Law and Legal Definition
Quote:
African Americans are citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa. In the United States, the terms are generally used for Americans with at least partial Sub-Saharan African ancestry.
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Old 8th February 2019, 11:30 PM   #19
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^^the reason I don't like it when legal definitions are used to draw hard lines.

I think it stymies this sort of discussion.

Regarding the one-drop rule, I used to be a member of this majority African American Facebook group, and occasionally you would see Pan-Africanist Afrocentrists of various types, particularly the so-called hoteps, claiming damn near everyone with ostensibly black ancestry.

"He can say the n-word he's Dominican", even though he's light-skinned, even though nobody would ever mistake him for a black man, even though his ancestors were not subject to American racism, even though they never really assessed "how much" of West Africa he had in him, if any at all.
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Old 10th February 2019, 01:22 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
^^the reason I don't like it when legal definitions are used to draw hard lines.

I think it stymies this sort of discussion.
Yep - there's nothing like citing a hard fact to stymie 'this sort of discussion'.

You claimed that Obama wasn't black. Let alone that a cursory glance would prove otherwise, he is African-American by both legal definition and popular usage. Your claim is based on a peculiar reasoning that is generally only employed by those who wish to deny the facts. The question is why do it?

I can think of two likely explanations,

1. Racism. "Obama isn't really black, so he can't speak for blacks. Their leader is a fraud. He's almost as white as we are!"

2. Partisanship. "Obama is a Democrat, therefore we must take every opportunity to denigrate him - no matter how ridiculous!"

And the base will lap it up because facts don't matter, and any ammunition is welcomed. After all, "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!"
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Old 10th February 2019, 02:05 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I cringe when I see that.
Me too. Their factual name is First Immigrants.
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Old 10th February 2019, 02:34 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I cringe when I see that.
I guess it is a generational thing. When I posted that it wasn’t with malice. Every Native American acquaintance I had referred to themselves as Indian although they usually would also refer to their tribe.
I looked up and found the same thing the younger generations usually don’t use the term “Indians”, one did mention first immigrants.
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Old 10th February 2019, 03:30 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I wouldn't expect an Australian to understand a joke premised on a uniquely American situation, but this might help:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1...5/comment-6543
Yes, I certainly understood your "joke". It got the response we Australians give such "jokes".

Try harder.
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Old 10th February 2019, 03:41 PM   #24
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What next Prestige,? Some knee slappeers about Sand Creek and Wounded Knee?
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Old 10th February 2019, 03:46 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What next Prestige,? Some knee slappeers about Sand Creek and Wounded Knee?
I wouldn't dream of putting a laughing matter like Elizabeth Warren's ancestry on par with a real tragedy and a black mark on America's history like Wounded Knee. What prompted you to make such a connection?
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Old 10th February 2019, 05:28 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I wouldn't dream of putting a laughing matter like Elizabeth Warren's ancestry on par with a real tragedy and a black mark on America's history like Wounded Knee. What prompted you to make such a connection?
Trump tweet (last month): "If Elizabeth Warren, often referred to by me as Pocahontas, did this commercial from Bighorn or Wounded Knee instead of her kitchen, with her husband dressed in full Indian garb, it would have been a smash!"
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Old 10th February 2019, 05:49 PM   #27
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I can't believe anyone is still discussing Warren's ancestry.
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Old 10th February 2019, 07:11 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I can't believe anyone is still discussing Warren's ancestry.
Wow. It's like you don't get to see ANY of Donny's tweets in the last few days.
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Old 10th February 2019, 07:43 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I can't believe anyone is still discussing Warren's ancestry.
Well, we've got to distract from policy somehow.
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Old 10th February 2019, 07:47 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Wow. It's like you don't get to see ANY of Donny's tweets in the last few days.
I try not to.
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Old 10th February 2019, 08:55 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I try not to [read any of Donny's tweets].
Then...

a) They are germane to the thread, and
b) Probably a good idea these days.
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Old 11th February 2019, 12:30 AM   #32
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I don't have to read Donny's latest tweets re Warren to know what his game is. That's been evident for a long, long time.
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Old 11th February 2019, 09:33 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
No.

I don't believe in claiming some tiny portion of your ancestry as your ethnic identity.

Also Obama isn't the first black president. He's (maybe) the first mixed black (Kenyan) and white American president.
Of course this means that all those African Americans are wrong about being black due to the % white they are from masters raping their slaves.
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Old 11th February 2019, 01:35 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Of course this means that all those African Americans are wrong about being black due to the % white they are from masters raping their slaves.
I don't think it's a fair comparison.

Obama is straight up mulatto, if we wanna use that word. I just think it's funny how people seem to want to only recognize his black side. Any deeper conversation about ethnic makeup ends after you place the subject in one checkbox.
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Old 11th February 2019, 02:09 PM   #35
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By her criteria, i'll bet Obama wasn't the first African American President.

And I don't mean Bill's honorary title.
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Old 11th February 2019, 02:20 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I don't think it's a fair comparison.

Obama is straight up mulatto, if we wanna use that word. I just think it's funny how people seem to want to only recognize his black side. Any deeper conversation about ethnic makeup ends after you place the subject in one checkbox.
And when he walks in anywhere what do people see? A black man. He is not any less black than if say a black child was adopted by white parents, that wouldn't make said child not black now would it?
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Old 11th February 2019, 10:02 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I don't think it's a fair comparison.

Obama is straight up mulatto, if we wanna use that word. I just think it's funny how people seem to want to only recognize his black side. Any deeper conversation about ethnic makeup ends after you place the subject in one checkbox.
If we treated people with varying levels of melanin differently, you might have a point. Black is black if you're brown enough, no matter how many paleface parents you have. We are not far off from a set of pale children (with black eyes) being abruptly relegated to Black status by their mother confessing that one of her parents was actually black. Suddenly they couldn't use the pool anymore and their friends wouldn't talk to them.
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Old 11th February 2019, 10:53 PM   #38
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Here's a shaded box from white to dark brown. Please mark on it exactly once where you think "dark" skin is dark enough to make someone "black" and above which they are "white".

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Old 11th February 2019, 10:57 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Here's a shaded box from white to dark brown. Please mark on it exactly once where you think "dark" skin is dark enough to make someone "black" and above which they are "white".



http://www.internationalskeptics.com...25efcc00c2.gif
Show us how it's done. What do you think the shade is, for a person of color to be Prime Minister of Australia?
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Old 11th February 2019, 11:10 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Show us how it's done. What do you think the shade is, for a person of color to be Prime Minister of Australia?
There's no "right" answer to guess here.

I asked posters who are debating who is "black" and who is "white" to identify where they thought the dividing line between them was. So there's a graded bar - pick the dividing point.

Are you interested in making any attempt?
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