|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
![]() |
#4121 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,502
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4122 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 5,408
|
|
__________________
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017. "And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4123 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19,277
|
This could be a coincidence, or Mueller could have some hot stuff on tap this month.
Mueller asked Congress to postpone Michael Cohen's testimony until Feb 28, and Maria Buttina's sentencing hearing has been put off from Feb 12 until Feb 26. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4124 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 23,151
|
It's being reported that long-time Deripaska associate Len Blavatnik donated $7m to Republican PACs between 2015 and 2017, including $3.5m to one associated with McConnell
Reminder: McConnell pushed for an end to sanctions on 3 companies tied to Deripaska, and Senate Republicans did end them. |
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4125 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,502
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4126 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,710
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4127 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,502
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4128 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,710
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4129 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,299
|
Its a bit more complex than that.
Blavatnick may be a U.S. citizen, but: - He had significant dealings with foreign business interests - McConnell's actions in the senate helped some of those foreign business interests So while there may have been an American citizen as an intermediary, it looks like McConnell took what amounted to a bribe financed by foreign interests There is certainly more there than whatever Trump and the republicans are claiming when it comes to the Clinton/Uranium1 connection. |
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4130 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,502
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4131 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,710
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4132 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,626
|
|
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4133 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,299
|
A private citizen wanting the government to address a particular issue is not a problem (even if that issue involves foreign interests).
The problem arises when that issue: 1- Gets more attention than it would normally get because of secondary issues (e.g. the politician is friends with the person wanting action, or in this case the person has contributed money to their re-election.) 2- results in actions that are detrimental to the country as a whole (or at least the citizens the politician represents), even if they do benefit the citizen asking for assistance. This is the case here. (Russians interfered with the American election process, and McConnell is taking actions that will embolden them to do so again, by removing punishments for those who had a part last time. And one of the beneficiaries of his action is someone who donated to his campaign.)
Quote:
Is the implementation of the Magnitsky act harmful to the U.S.? No, in fact laws that prevent corruption are beneficial to the country (and the global economy) as a whole. So no, totally different than the type of election payments to support McConnell's campaign, when McConnell is taking action to harm the U.S. election process. |
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4134 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,826
|
McConnell has no excuse whatsoever, since he has been a member of the Gang of Eight for bloody forever - he knows exactly what Russia is doing in the US, or could every easily find out.
Traitor is the correct description, since Russia is clearly waging a kind of war against the West. |
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4135 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,710
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4136 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,710
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4137 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,299
|
Whether he personally thinks that its "good for the U.S." to be a puppet state of Russia is irrelevant. It would still make him a traitor to go against U.S. law (which much of this might be) in order to accomplish the goal. After all, I don't think the defense "I think its best if democracy to be subverted" is really a good argument to make.
And if he really thought it was a good idea? Then why is he not trying to bring about a change in the laws? (If he really thought it was good for the U.S. he could co-author the "Make Putin the president of the U.S." bill.) Instead, he's trying to skirt around the law and subverting it. |
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4138 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,826
|
|
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4139 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,710
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4140 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,299
|
Looks like Cohen's testimony could be delayed indefinitely due to medical reasons.
From: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1Q02F8 Testimony by U.S. President Donald Trump’s former lawyer Michael Cohen planned for Tuesday before the Senate Intelligence Committee has been postponed due to a recent medical procedure... |
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4141 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,299
|
Not sure what your point is.
Zanganza brought up the issue of Russian interference in American elections (which is against the law). You stated "How do you know he doesn't think it is good for the US?". Sounded to me like you were suggesting McConnell thought intereference shouldn't be illegal. |
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4142 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,560
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4143 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,710
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4144 |
Rotten to the Core
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,887
|
Senate has uncovered no direct evidence of conspiracy between Trump campaign and Russia
"We were never going to find a contract signed in blood saying, 'Hey Vlad, we're going to collude,'" one Democratic aide said. |
__________________
All You Need Is Love. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4145 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 23,151
|
|
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4146 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 23,151
|
|
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4147 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 10,387
|
I've been browsing through the US Code, trying to understand how lying under oath and witness tampering are "minor process violations"
The truthfulness of witnesses in testimony is at the core of a civilised society's judicial system; when a witness lies, or encourages other witnesses to lie, it strikes at the very core of that justice system. Witness tampering and lying under oath are serious crimes, not "minor process violations". |
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. - Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4148 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,299
|
And its quite possible he did. (At least in my non-legal expert opinion.)
For example, if he did in fact end sanctions in exchange for campaign contributions that would probably be considered bribery. And while its not illegal for American citizens to donate to political causes, its illegal to do so at the direction of foreign entities. That would be considered a campaign finance violation, and if McConnell had knowledge and assisted the transaction he might be considered a co-conspirator. |
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4149 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 10,387
|
|
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. - Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4150 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,502
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4151 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 10,387
|
|
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. - Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4152 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,826
|
This Buzzfeed article clearly outlines how Trump ran his campaign in order to please Putin to get his Trump Tower Moscow, funding included.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...en-sater-putin There can be no doubt that Trump first and foremost had his business in mind, not US interests. It's a typical case of Russia promising great rewards for cooperation, rewards that never materialize. It's standard spycraft. |
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4153 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 10,387
|
Worth reading; how the media have failed to inform people about how the criminal justice system really works
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/sta...55251371196416 No attorney with criminal law experience came into the Trump-Russia probe believing one of the conspirators would confess to Congress or that an explicit contract would be found. That absurd standard was set by non-attorney Trump supporters and was then *adopted by the media*. There may be confessions in the Russia probe before it's over, but they will come *via Mueller's charges/deals*, not Congress—and no explicit contract for a conspiracy like this would ever be created, let alone found. We knew all this two years ago. The media pretended not to. The journalists who misreported what Burr said to CBS and what it meant and how evidence works and the fact that most American criminal trials are in fact dominated by circumstantial or indirect evidence should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. Rest assured, they are *not*. The percent of U.S. criminal cases in which one finds a contract agreeing to commit a crime is *virtually zero*. Confessions are *common*—and are *exactly* what Mueller has been getting, behind closed doors, from people like Flynn, Gates, Papadopoulos, Nader, and many others. |
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. - Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4154 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,032
|
He cites no one who has literally ever said that. A "contract"? Is he really claiming that someone asserted that if there is no direct contract there is no direct evidence. That is profoundly specious and idiotic strawman the likes of which I cannot believe anymore. Why do people believe this grifter???
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4155 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,218
|
|
__________________
"We're done! We're done! GET OUT!" |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4156 |
Rotten to the Core
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,887
|
Say it with me people, Trump 2020!
|
__________________
All You Need Is Love. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4157 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,150
|
|
__________________
The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4158 |
Rotten to the Core
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,887
|
Grifter........... the new racist dog whistle?
Coming to a snowflake near you |
__________________
All You Need Is Love. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4159 |
Scourge, of the supernatural
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 13,560
|
As would normally be the expectation. However, given the propensity for some of these people to speak, even publicly, directly to intent, when best left unsaid. Doesn't bode well for what was said privately and potentially recorded or documented. Even if I were amongst them I doubt I could speak in such absolutes given the apparent inability of some of the people to just shut the heck up about their intents when needed. Also given the potential of the Trump tower deal pursuit, a contract signed in something or other may have been an end goal, so also a potential topic of discussion documentation. ETA: Case in point the recorded conversation between Trump and Cohen about using the other guy for payments. Using a cutout is always a good idea. Having a detailed conversation about using that cutout and their criticality, not such a great idea. |
__________________
BRAINZZZZZZZZ |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4160 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 39,632
|
|
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
|
|