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Tags New Zealand issues , New Zealand politics

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Old 19th June 2015, 02:30 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You provided requests from warrants to telcos.
Oh yeah, maybe GCSB has them in case they need them.

Wake up, mate - GCSB is taking the metadata. Snowden's files proved it, the warrants prove it, and the fact that Vodafone and other telcos have direct feeds to GCSB prove it.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Maybe you should be looking at Google rather than a few legal requests
Holy crap - I think you're not even joking. What on earth is Google going to do? Do you think GCSB puts its results in open websites so Google can scan them.

Seriously, you are out of your depth on this one. Supporting the plan is fine, but denying it is as silly as denying the moon landings.
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Old 19th June 2015, 06:26 PM   #242
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Which bit of data can't be used without a warrant don't you get?

Google, Facebook, Twitter gather more of your data than the SIS ever will. And then sell it on to whoever has the cash. And you are paranoid about a ministry with a tenth of their funds?

Get a grip dude
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 19th June 2015, 06:49 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Oh yeah, maybe GCSB has them in case they need them.
The agencies that had made warrant approaches to Vodafone were listed in the article, and didn't include the GCSB. Telecom didn't specify which organisations were included in its 40 warrant approaches.
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Old 19th June 2015, 06:55 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
The agencies that had made warrant approaches to Vodafone were listed in the article, and didn't include the GCSB. Telecom didn't specify which organisations were included in its 40 warrant approaches.
The small fact it has to be either the police or SIS with appropriate independently approved warrants and not the GCSB tends to elude some people
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 19th June 2015, 07:05 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The small fact it has to be either the police or SIS with appropriate independently approved warrants and not the GCSB tends to elude some people
It's quite possible the GCSB are illegally gathering large scale metadata on the communications of NZ citizens without warrants. I seriously doubt they actually have the capability to do it (a lot of people have pretty fantastical ideas about the intelligence industry's capabilities), but it's not beyond the realms of plausibility.

However there's not a single ounce of evidence this is actually happening. And absent any evidence, the only reason for thinking it's happening is paranoid delusion.

Personally, I base my world view on facts, and evidence, not on fantasy and fear.

Now, some people simply don't support any sort of communication interception at all, or have pretty limited ideas of who should be able to do it. Many people, for example, are totally opposed to any sort of government espionage at all.

I don't completely agree with that position, as I think it serves a necessary role in protecting our country's interests, but I can't fault that position, and I can understand it. That's why I asked The Atheist for their view on the issue. It seems like they're opposed to the principal of gathering foreign signals intelligence full stop. I disagree, but I understand their position and it's a completely legitimate one.
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Old 19th June 2015, 07:15 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
It's quite possible the GCSB are illegally gathering large scale metadata on the communications of NZ citizens without warrants. I seriously doubt they actually have the capability to do it (a lot of people have pretty fantastical ideas about the intelligence industry's capabilities), but it's not beyond the realms of plausibility.
Oh yeah. They have the capacity to mine metadata from other countries and not NZ?

Who is deluded here?

Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
However there's not a single ounce of evidence this is actually happening.
There wouldn't be a lot, would there? They're not going to advertise it.

The Snowden evidence, however, still stands.
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Old 19th June 2015, 07:17 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The small fact it has to be either the police or SIS with appropriate independently approved warrants and not the GCSB tends to elude some people
SIS/GCSB - it doesn't really matter. You don't think they share information?
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Old 19th June 2015, 07:22 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Google, Facebook, Twitter gather more of your data than the SIS ever will.
Wrong.

Google gathers only the information I allow them to see, while FB and Twatter gather none from me.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
And you are paranoid about a ministry with a tenth of their funds?
No paranoia involved. I don't have anything to hide.
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Old 19th June 2015, 07:41 PM   #249
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Maybe a copy of the GCSB's own response to an OIA request will do the trick...

https://www.fyi.org.nz/request/1343/...x%20Harris.pdf

"...the GCSB has in the past and continues to access New Zealanders' metadata..."

Delusion.

NBR - usually popular with right-wingers:

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/wholesa...iwis-ck-144551

TV3

http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/gcsb-t...#axzz3dZ7rvyYd

Glenn Greenwald - dismissed by Johnny Combover as a conspiracist for obvious reasons:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2...-surveillance/
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Old 19th June 2015, 07:53 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Oh yeah. They have the capacity to mine metadata from other countries and not NZ?

Who is deluded here?

The capability required for wholesale intelligence gathering is orders of magnitude greater than is required for targetted intelligence gathering.



Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
There wouldn't be a lot, would there? They're not going to advertise it.
No, of course not. But the fact remains, absent evidence, there's no justification for believing it's happening.



Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
The Snowden evidence, however, still stands.
He hasn't provided any evidence of anything.
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Old 19th June 2015, 08:12 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
The capability required for wholesale intelligence gathering is orders of magnitude greater than is required for targetted intelligence gathering.

No, of course not. But the fact remains, absent evidence, there's no justification for believing it's happening.
You probably should have read the post prior to yours before hitting send.
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Old 19th June 2015, 09:05 PM   #252
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I am quite bemused that someone would be more paranoid about the government than corporations like Google and Facebook.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 19th June 2015, 09:49 PM   #253
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Another who would benefit from reading what's been said in the thread.

What am I paranoid about? I am simply stating facts. I've already said that none of it affects me as I have nothing to hide.

Also, you must have missed the bit that Google and Facebook have no information I don't allow them to have, not to mention the obvious point that their power is solely economic.

Even better, I have several threads on the subject of Google and information-collecting.

Do keep up, mate.
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Old 19th June 2015, 10:40 PM   #254
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Good job there is no ISP which knows everything about you
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 19th June 2015, 11:55 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Good job there is no ISP which knows everything about you
Mate, you are so wrong it's laughable. ISPs know only what people allow them to know, or maybe you are unaware of proxy servers?

The only information my ISP can possibly know when I'm using a proxy is that I'm using a proxy. They can trace it to the first layer only and there are several layers past that before I hit whatever home page I'm aiming for. The ISP has absolutely no way of knowing where I am, what I'm doing or saying. That's exactly why proxies exist, and the fact that they work is evinced very nicely by Dread Pirate Roberts, who took years to be caught and then only got caught because he was an idiot.

Wikileaks' databases and all of the Dark Net only allow connections through proxy servers to join sites - you can't access them from a standard ISP connection.
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Old 20th June 2015, 12:12 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Mate, you are so wrong it's laughable. ISPs know only what people allow them to know, or maybe you are unaware of proxy servers?

The only information my ISP can possibly know when I'm using a proxy is that I'm using a proxy. They can trace it to the first layer only and there are several layers past that before I hit whatever home page I'm aiming for. The ISP has absolutely no way of knowing where I am, what I'm doing or saying. That's exactly why proxies exist, and the fact that they work is evinced very nicely by Dread Pirate Roberts, who took years to be caught and then only got caught because he was an idiot.

Wikileaks' databases and all of the Dark Net only allow connections through proxy servers to join sites - you can't access them from a standard ISP connection.
Your paranoia is showing.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 20th June 2015, 01:36 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Your paranoia is showing.
Continuing to make silly assertions does not make them true.

I guess it's easier than admitting you haven't got a clue on the subject - which is abundantly clear from your previous comment.
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Old 20th June 2015, 02:17 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Continuing to make silly assertions does not make them true.

I guess it's easier than admitting you haven't got a clue on the subject - which is abundantly clear from your previous comment.

Do you honestly think the govt collects everyone's data and reads through it?

The yanks or aussies might and search for key words.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 20th June 2015, 02:37 AM   #259
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Old 20th June 2015, 02:50 AM   #260
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I just can't get my head around the fact people don't realise five eyes spys on each others and other countries to get around spying on their own citizens.

How do they think global pedo rings, drug deals, money laundering and people smuggling is discovered.

I seriously doubt they are profiling Dave from Kaiapoi because he is a socialist
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 20th June 2015, 11:46 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Do you honestly think the govt collects everyone's data and reads through it?
No.

You are displaying a total lack of understanding of how metadata collation works.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The yanks or aussies might and search for key words.
Why would Aus or US do something NZ is quite happy to do for them?

It's not so much key words - although that does play a part - as patterns.
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Old 20th June 2015, 03:51 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
No.

You are displaying a total lack of understanding of how metadata collation works.



Why would Aus or US do something NZ is quite happy to do for them?

It's not so much key words - although that does play a part - as patterns.
Because the GCSB aren't allowed to unless lending resources to the SIS or police with a warrant
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 20th June 2015, 04:36 PM   #263
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This is getting circular. I've shown you that "allowed" has nothing to do with reality.

Cops aren't "allowed" to rape underage prostitutes, but they do.

Cops aren't "allowed" to fake search warrants, but they do.

Key is not "allowed" to indulge his hair fetish with little girls, but he does.

The GCSB isn't "allowed" to spy on friendly nations, but they do.

I can go on.
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Old 21st June 2015, 02:40 AM   #264
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And back to day-to-day politics:

Very nice - and only partly satirical - piece on Nick Smith and his enormous Auckland housing faux pas. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/n...ectid=11468567

Followed closely by Anne Tolley trying to get both of her feet into her mouth at the same time, suggesting that the Ministry of Social Development could be outsourced to the most excellent and trouble-free Serco. http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/tolley...#axzz3dgiIWsAM
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Old 21st June 2015, 03:21 AM   #265
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That is ace Atheist. But the opposition have no policy.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 21st June 2015, 11:53 AM   #266
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Mate, you could find out for yourself, but I'm happy to post it if you can't be bothered.

Labour has policies, I assure you. Not all of them are right, but unlike National, at least most of them are.
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Old 21st June 2015, 01:34 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Mate, you could find out for yourself, but I'm happy to post it if you can't be bothered.

Labour has policies, I assure you. Not all of them are right, but unlike National, at least most of them are.
Maybe they should update their website then

Apparently everything is being "reviewed" according to Little
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 21st June 2015, 06:19 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Maybe they should update their website then
Maybe you should.

The policies are clearly contained under the link to a tab marked "Policies".

Here's a handy shortcut for you: http://campaign.labour.org.nz/policies

Complete with fact sheets where necessary.
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Old 21st June 2015, 06:33 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Maybe you should.

The policies are clearly contained under the link to a tab marked "Policies".

Here's a handy shortcut for you: http://campaign.labour.org.nz/policies

Complete with fact sheets where necessary.
Error 526

Host web server does not have valid SSL certificate
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Old 21st June 2015, 06:42 PM   #270
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Worked with IE

It has pensions age going up - (canned)

CGT - (canned)

NZ Power - Nash said on Q and A yesterday they don't know if it is still policy

And this doozy of up to date policy re minimum wage

Quote:
Increase the minimum wage by $2 an hour in our first year, to $15 an hour in our first hundred days in government, and increased again to $16.25 an hour in early 2015,
Labour. You lost nearly a year ago. What are your policys?
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Old 21st June 2015, 07:11 PM   #271
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Ok, fair point - they need to update their website.

Hardly the end of the world, but certainly not smart play.
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Old 21st June 2015, 07:41 PM   #272
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Meanwhile, Johnny Combover caught lying again...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/n...ectid=11469078
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Old 21st June 2015, 07:46 PM   #273
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Not really lying. Just being and idiot and not checking the numbers before opening his gob
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Old 25th June 2015, 05:35 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Labour. You lost nearly a year ago. What are your policys?
So National can steal them again? Seriously, there's over 2 years to go before the next election, why the demand for policies at this point?
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Old 25th June 2015, 11:36 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
So National can steal them again? Seriously, there's over 2 years to go before the next election, why the demand for policies at this point?
Well, duh.

What else have National got? They can't defend the current state of the nation.
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Old 25th June 2015, 02:50 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
So National can steal them again? Seriously, there's over 2 years to go before the next election, why the demand for policies at this point?
Keep clinging to the excuses.

As we have seen. Negative politics and no policy has been working brilliantly for Labour over the past 7 years
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Old 25th June 2015, 03:00 PM   #277
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Labour's problem in the past seven years has been all about dumb and incapable people acting as leader.

Unfortunately, many voters incorrectly think Johnny Combover has a personality.
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Old 25th June 2015, 05:41 PM   #278
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That is what happens when you get the unions choosing them
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Old 25th June 2015, 06:16 PM   #279
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Well, given the choice between unions and a bunch of private school-educated tossers with their hands down each others' panties, I'll stick with unions.

Much as I despise unions, I despise the elitists of the National Party a lot more.

To me, ideology matters a lot less than results, and all of the positive changes have come from the left side of the House. National has done nothing since before Holyoake in terms of improving the lot of Kiwis.

At least those Nats of the second trimester of the 20th century were helping farmers - people who worked for a living - as opposed to the current lot, where they have evolved to perpetuate themselves like some parody of The Party to the exclusion of actually governing in any reasonable use of the term.

A perfect example this week with Key and the Wgtn Doc on MDMA.

Actual doctor, who works with drug harm: "There is no scientific doubt MDMA is safe and the current drug laws are causing harm."

Key: "All I ever see about Ecstasy is bad, move on."

National voters dislike drugs, ergo, I am anti drugs.

Be proud of what you have mate, be proud!
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Old 25th June 2015, 06:32 PM   #280
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Fair call

I wonder if he even bothered to ask Gluckman
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