Split Thread: War in Afghanistan

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

No, you've got it wrong. He's being perfectly consistent with his philosophy. If you're a westerner, you should never fight for your values because your values are evil. If you're not a westerner, it's OK to fight for your values.

Totally straw.

I have never advanced that positon and can show posts to prove it.

Anyway, Capt Swoop gets it.

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Shouldn't they have just surrendered according to your philosophy?

Surrender is a not a concept Maori were familiar with, otherwise, it would have been a great idea and would have saved hundreds of thousands of Maori who died needlessly fighting each other afterwards.

[Roofgardener]

I think perhaps Ziggurat was being a tad sardonic ?

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Roofgardener

I think perhaps Ziggurat was being a tad sardonic ?

Yes, but with an incorrect point. Sheesh, I'm much more critical of David Cameron than USA, but US-centric types who don't get out too much struggle to understand there are hundreds of other countries out there and it's not just about them.

[Ziggurat]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Yes, but with an incorrect point. Sheesh, I'm much more critical of David Cameron than USA, but US-centric types who don't get out too much struggle to understand there are hundreds of other countries out there and it's not just about them.

That's ironic, considering I didn't even mention the USA.

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Chalk up another thing you have absolutely no idea about - New Zealand history.

1 Maori didn't give land away.
2 They fought the British to a stalemate, so were in no danger of defeat.
3 They chose to enter into an agreement with the Crown that still applies today.

Nonsense, they once had all of NZ now they have a fraction of it. Because people like you took it from them. They agreed at the point of a bayonet.

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Surrender is a not a concept Maori were familiar with, otherwise, it would have been a great idea and would have saved hundreds of thousands of Maori who died needlessly fighting each other afterwards.

Fighting over what little was left after the Brits took it from them.

And it was in fact British colonization that lead us up to the Afghanistan war in the first place, arrogant Brits decided that India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan was their for the taking because that's how God wanted it.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

That's ironic, considering I didn't even mention the USA.

"Westerner" tends to morph in to USA when we're talking about a USA-led war discussing an attack by US forces, using US bullets.

[Ziggurat]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

"Westerner" tends to morph in to USA when we're talking about a USA-led war discussing an attack by US forces, using US bullets.

Speak for yourself. I have no trouble avoiding such confusion, especially since the topic had drifted to British colonization of New Zealand.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Speak for yourself. I have no trouble avoiding such confusion, especially since the topic had drifted to British colonization of New Zealand.

Oh yeah!

After your post....

[dudalb]

So the Taliaban has found some "Useful Idiots" supporters among the Hard Left in the West. Sad,but not surprising.
We could get into a interesting discussion of why so many on the Militant Left are carrying water for Isalamic Militants.
In the case of some, though , it is the psychotic hatred for the United States, and ,probably, the West in general.
I wonder how long until we get "The US had it coming on 9/11" arguments here?

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by dudalb

So the Taliaban has found some "Useful Idiots" supporters among the Hard Left in the West.

Where are they?

I trust you're not misrepresenting my position by saying I support them, because that would be a lie.

Originally Posted by dudalb

We could get into a interesting discussion of why so many on the Militant Left are carrying water for Isalamic Militants.

I sincerely doubt it. The strawman positions employed in any kind of discussion like that would preclude it. For evidence, look at Jeremy Corbyn, who has been mis-quoted, misrepresented and lied about.

Hawks so badly want to tar the hard left with terrorists that I think they actually get off thinking about it. Imagine if you could intertwine both enemies!

Utopia!

Originally Posted by dudalb

In the case of some, though , it is the psychotic hatred for the United States,...

Given the amount of psychotic hatred inside USA, that's bloody funny.

Originally Posted by dudalb

and ,probably, the West in general.

No, you're completely messed up - it's the west which is laughing at USA and pouring derision on its actions.

Originally Posted by dudalb

I wonder how long until we get "The US had it coming on 9/11" arguments here?

Surely, someone's already said that?

I wouldn't say "Had it coming" so much as "left the door open" with absurdly lax intelligence and transport management.

[Ziggurat]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Oh yeah!

After your post....

After my post? Here's the exchange:

Post 154

Originally Posted by WildCat

And [The Atheist] thinks the Maori were happy to give New Zealand to the nice British men with guns because they thought they were so awesome, or enamored with the beauty and grace of Queen Victoria, or something.

Post 158:

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Chalk up another thing you have absolutely no idea about - New Zealand history.

1 Maori didn't give land away.
2 They fought the British to a stalemate, so were in no danger of defeat.
3 They chose to enter into an agreement with the Crown that still applies today.

Post 159:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Shouldn't they have just surrendered according to your philosophy?

Post 160:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

No, you've got it wrong. He's being perfectly consistent with his philosophy. If you're a westerner, you should never fight for your values because your values are evil. If you're not a westerner, it's OK to fight for your values.

Unless you're positing time travel, then my use of the term "westerner" comes after (and in response to) this tangent about British colonization of New Zealand. Other disputes between us preceded that tangent, but I didn't use the word "westerner" in any of those earlier posts.

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by dudalb

So the Taliaban has found some "Useful Idiots" supporters among the Hard Left in the West. Sad,but not surprising.
We could get into a interesting discussion of why so many on the Militant Left are carrying water for Isalamic Militants.
In the case of some, though , it is the psychotic hatred for the United States, and ,probably, the West in general.
I wonder how long until we get "The US had it coming on 9/11" arguments here?

Not exactly. He doesn't "support" the Taliban's war crimes and crimes against humanity. He simply "understands" why they do it.

But he doesn't like the fact that the US thinks it is doing the right thing when it goes to war. So he "focuses" on the U.S., acting as Chief Accuser and Judge.

It doesn't seem to bother him that the Taliban also thinks it's doing the right thing.



Yeah. I know it doesn't make any sense, but it's all there in his posts. These are the great minds that accuse and judge us. They are beyond our puny powers of comprehension.

[Darth Rotor]

War in Afghanistan is an old story.

Interesting to see that one of the people doing bad things for the Soviet backed government in 1979 has been arrested in the Netherlands.

Quote:

A suspected war criminal has been arrested in the Netherlands in connection with the 1979 massacre of more than 1,000 men and boys during the Afghan civil war.

Sadeq Alamyar, 64, was detained in Rotterdam on Tuesday.

The Dutch citizen is accused of being the commander of an elite Afghan army unit during the communist government's civil war against Islamist rebels which authorities say "dragged large numbers of men and boys from their homes" before killing them.

At least 1,000 men and boys are alleged to have been rounded up by government troops and shot dead in the Kerala area of Kunar province in eastern Afghanistan on April 20, 1979.

According to Dutch prosecutors, the "commando unit under [Alamyar's] orders took part in several killings" while he also "allegedly fired shots himself."

[Joey McGee]

Old story indeed. Failures in history indeed. This is exactly why we should not give up on it.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

War in Afghanistan is an old story.

No ****.

I'm old enough to recall not far post-war comedies where the old guys used to reminisce about fighting fuzzy-wuzzies on the North-West Frontier.

Originally Posted by Joey McGee

Old story indeed. Failures in history indeed. This is exactly why we should not give up on it.

Yeah mate!

Carrying its superb record into the fight, USA will sort it out.

Going great guns so far. People seem to be largely voting with their feet.

[Joey McGee]

Cheerleaders for totalitarianism and lovers of the enemy. Zero understanding of our national holidays. No shame. Gets a laugh out of me. Your mileage may vary.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Joey McGee

Cheerleaders for totalitarianism...

I love the way you talk about conspiracies while making up blatant lies about someone.

Originally Posted by Joey McGee

...and lovers of the enemy.

Twice.

Originally Posted by Joey McGee

Zero understanding of our national holidays.

No. Zero interest in your national holidays. As in, less interest than what Zag the penguin had for breakfast this morning. (it was fish, by the way)

Originally Posted by Joey McGee

Gets a laugh out of me.

Then the thread's working well, because I find you hysterically funny.

[Joey McGee]

Pick and choose bro. You are the one to proclaims to wish the Nazis had one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD6oDnm43HA

See, this is something you could have been listening to other than the news today

[Joey McGee]

Today we are remembering the men and women who died keeping terrorists and totalitarians from taking over afghanistan. The Atheist isn't welcome here.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Joey McGee

Today we are remembering the men and women who died keeping failing to keep terrorists and totalitarians from taking over afghanistan.

FTFY.

Since it's blatantly obvious they haven't gone AWOL yet. (terrorists & Taliban)

(Also, I think you'll find it's the anniversary of the WWI Armistice and has Afghanistan involvement only because you keep sending grunts over there to toast hospitals and get wasted by IEDs.)

Originally Posted by Joey McGee

The Atheist isn't welcome here.

If by "here", you mean USA, you couldn't pay me enough to go there, so any welcome is completely moot.

[Joey McGee]

[Joey McGee]

The flag on high! The ranks tightly closed!
The SA marches with quiet, steady step.
Comrades shot by the Red Front and reactionaries
March in spirit within our ranks.
Comrades shot by the Red Front and reactionaries
March in spirit within our ranks.

Clear the streets for the brown battalions,
Clear the streets for the storm division!
Millions are looking upon the swastika full of hope,
The day of freedom and of bread dawns!
Millions are looking upon the swastika full of hope,
The day of freedom and of bread dawns!

For the last time, the call to arms is sounded!
For the fight, we all stand prepared!
Already Hitler's banners fly over all streets.
The time of bondage will last but a little while now!
Already Hitler's banners fly over all streets.
The time of bondage will last but a little while now.

The flag on high! The ranks tightly closed!
The SA march with quiet, steady step.
Comrades shot by the Red Front and reactionaries,
March in spirit within our ranks.
Comrades shot by the Red Front and reactionaries,
March in spirit within our ranks

[Joey McGee]

Catchy tune. And you thought Jingle Bells got annoying at Christmas Time.

[Joey McGee]

VICE News embeds with Taliban and Afghan army after Kunduz.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

It shows clearly why the Taliban will never win, how delusional they are. The guy who is fixing a shoe, he is saying how great the Taliban are but I'm pretty sure he's lying through his teeth. Anyone would say that on camera with Taliban watching... what was the point of the interview?

The Taliban have been planning to regain control when the Americans leave since the Americans came there. Everyone in the world with a brain was expecting some kind of victories. Some victory it was... listen to their depressed explanations of why they left Kunduz. *********** delusional cult members wow!

[The Atheist]

Just for anyone still retaining the fantasy that the Kunduz MSF attack was anything other than a US military screw up, maybe the actual US military admitting human error was to blame will change their minds. (as if!)

Quote:

Some US personnel were suspended and could face disciplinary action in the incident after failing to follow US rules of engagement in a war zone, said US Army General John Campbell, who leads international forces in Afghanistan.

Disciplinary action? How un-American.

Loss of pay and privileges for 14 days, I'd say - they were only Frogs & ragheads after all.

[Joey McGee]

But you were the one who said that it was on purpose Why are you believing American propaganda?

Oh and apparently the US military is a bunch of racists.

Real cute, I'm glad you can entertain yourself.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Joey McGee

But you were the one who said that it was on purpose

Yes, I'm not surprised you're confused, because you clearly have no conception of what "on purpose" means.

I'll give you a handy list of synonyms to help you out:

deliberately, intentionally, by design, wilfully, calculatedly, premeditatedly, wittingly, knowingly, consciously; in cold blood, of one's own volition;
expressly, explicitly, specifically, especially, specially

If you need more, let me know.

Quote:

The grid location of the AC-130 aircraft that attacked the hospital eventually identified the correct target building. In addition, there was no hostile enemy activity at the MSF building, Campbell said, but the US attack continued.

The US military is admitting that it attacked the MSF hospital co-ordinates due to human error, but there is no question in any sane mind that the attack was calculated and deliberate.

[Joey McGee]

Any teacher ever involved in teaching you the English language would cry if they saw this post.

[The Atheist]

Error message!

[Darth Rotor]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

The US military is admitting that it attacked the MSF hospital co-ordinates due to human error, but there is no question in any sane mind that the attack was calculated and deliberate.

Did you proof read that before you hit the "submit reply" button?

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Did you proof read that before you hit the "submit reply" button?

Yep - it is a bit ambiguous, I guess.

The attack was deliberate, but only because some no-brain got something horribly wrong.

It wasn't a case of rogue missiles or poor targeting. The target was hit.

I confess to hoping the statement about charges of personnel responsible come through; it would certainly make me re-think the US military.

A little.

[The Atheist]

Great to see all those predictions of growing government control and peace breaking out all over Afghanistan turning out to be so accurate:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6784831.html

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Great to see all those predictions of growing government control and peace breaking out all over Afghanistan turning out to be so accurate:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6784831.html

It's almost as if you don't want peace to break out all over Afghanistan.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Toontown

It's almost as if you don't want peace to break out all over Afghanistan.

That's a stupid statement.

I'm on record as opposing all violence and war.

What I'd like is for all the sides to put their guns down, but since that isn't happening, I'll stick to pointing out the futility of USA et al getting involved in situations that are none of their business.

[Bikewer]

NPR's The World just had an interesting segment on the conflict(s) in Afghanistan. The fellow was saying that while we continue to characterize the fighting as "The Taliban" vs. everyone else.... This is far from the case.
The report indicated that what was actually going on was dozens of long-simmering conflicts involving little ethnic groups, individual warlords, drug traffickers, even individual villages. Identifying a neighboring village as being rife with Taliban when in fact the villages may have been hostile to each other for dozens of years...
That sort of thing. The report held out very little hope for any kind of peaceful conclusion to all of these ongoing conflicts.

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

That's a stupid statement.

I'm on record as opposing all violence and war.

What I'd like is for all the sides to put their guns down, but since that isn't happening, I'll stick to pointing out the futility of USA et al getting involved in situations that are none of their business.

You haven't proved the forcible banning of the Taliban is futile. Only time and events can prove or disprove that. Time which has not passed and events which have not yet resolved. Essentially, you are simply reiterating your personal belief that the future holds only failure for the US et al and the people of Afghanistan. Over and over and over again. Ad nauseum. As if the repetition of your mantra will make it true.

It's almost as if you don't want peace to break out in Afghanistan...

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Bikewer

NPR's The World just had an interesting segment on the conflict(s) in Afghanistan. The fellow was saying that while we continue to characterize the fighting as "The Taliban" vs. everyone else.... This is far from the case.

Correct, and one of the newest battles is ISIS trying to capitalise on the instability. Even the Taliban's on "our side" when it comes ot ISIS, which is quite amusing when you think about it.

Originally Posted by Toontown

Essentially, you are simply reiterating your personal belief that the future holds only failure for the US et al and the people of Afghanistan. Over and over and over again. Ad nauseum. As if the repetition of your mantra will make it true.

Utter tosh.

I'm repeating nothing, but I am continuing to post stories which show what an absolute cluster-bomb A'stan is, 14 years after the invasion.

Each of those stories is different, containing a different atrocity.

It's sickening alright.

Originally Posted by Toontown

It's almost as if you don't want peace to break out in Afghanistan...

I have a much better plan.

You keep comforting yourself with made-up nonsense, and I'll continue to point out the horrific effects of a "war" that should never have been started, let alone continued to this very day: or maybe you've forgotten the event my sig refers to already?

In the real world - which is the one I live in - I'd be glad to eat a dozen plates of raw crow on the topic of Afghanistan and what a balls-up America left there.

And if the Fairy Godmother waves her wand and Afghanistan suddenly busrts into peace, you can have first place in the queue with a heaped plate.

[Toontown]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

You keep comforting yourself with made-up nonsense, and I'll continue to point out the horrific effects of a "war" that should never have been started, let alone continued to this very day: or maybe you've forgotten the event my sig refers to already?

The "horrific effects" of the war aren't as bad as everyday life was in Afghanistan under Taliban rule. People died like flies then, there was fighting all the time, and the NATO intervention, if nothing else, prevented a famine.

Originally Posted by The Atheist

In the real world - which is the one I live in - I'd be glad to eat a dozen plates of raw crow on the topic of Afghanistan and what a balls-up America left there.

You mean the "real world" that doesn't even know what I just told you?

Originally Posted by The Atheist

And if the Fairy Godmother waves her wand and Afghanistan suddenly busrts into peace, you can have first place in the queue with a heaped plate.

The world has been in a constant state of war for many thousands of years. Afghanistan is one of the remaining regions where the constant state of war continues to hold sway. It will take more than a fairy Godmother and a magic wand to change that. And frankly, your idea of sitting on your ass pointing your magic finger of blame in the wrong direction is pathetic.

[The Atheist]

November 2015:

Originally Posted by Joey McGee

It shows clearly why the Taliban will never win, how delusional they are.

A convenient 12 months later...

Quote:

Forty-two percent of Afghans say security is worse than it was under Taliban rule in the 1990s, according to the latest United Nations report.

Quote:

Fifteen years after the United States first scattered the Taliban with high-altitude bombing, the battlefield gains achieved by tens of thousands of U.S. troops are in jeopardy from a resurgent Taliban.

Yep, sounds like a beaten unit.

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