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Old 27th November 2016, 02:23 PM   #201
Joey McGee
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I didn't say they were beaten, or that they would never make gains again, I said that they would never win, and that most people hate the Taliban. Get a life.
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Old 28th November 2016, 06:18 PM   #202
Jules Galen
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
I didn't say they were beaten, or that they would never make gains again, I said that they would never win, and that most people hate the Taliban. Get a life.
Yeah...that's what the Russians said. Unfortunately, even as Pathological as the Taliban may be, it appears to me that they are the "Home Boys"...the local favorites.

Afghanistan is so screwed up.

Last edited by Jules Galen; 28th November 2016 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 28th November 2016, 09:20 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
Yeah...that's what the Russians said. Unfortunately, even as Pathological as the Taliban may be, it appears to me that they are the "Home Boys"...the local favorites.

Afghanistan is so screwed up.
It's Hillbillistan.
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Old 29th November 2016, 04:35 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
It's Hillbillistan.
I guess so. I mean, these people are so bad that even Genghis Khan refused to conquer them.
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Old 29th November 2016, 10:01 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
I guess so. I mean, these people are so bad that even Genghis Khan refused to conquer them.
How many people have completely failed to beat them to date?

Given three in the last century and a bit, there must have been a few attempts overall. Generation after generation of insanely violent xenophobis people. I guess it shows the virtues of a closed group.

Probably make an interesting genetic study for someone.
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Old 29th November 2016, 11:15 AM   #206
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300 Walmarts. That's my proposal to conquer and pacify Afghanistan. 300 Walmart stores across the nation, filled with products that meet the local needs.

Why 300? That would bring Afganistan up to the stores per capita of Idaho.
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Old 29th November 2016, 12:22 PM   #207
Joey McGee
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
Yeah...that's what the Russians said. Unfortunately, even as Pathological as the Taliban may be, it appears to me that they are the "Home Boys"...the local favorites.

Afghanistan is so screwed up.
It "appears to me" that I am judging whether or not the Afghani population supports the Taliban by polling data, and you are going on your intuition and "deep knowledge" of international intelligence operations.
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Old 30th November 2016, 12:47 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
Yeah...that's what the Russians said. Unfortunately, even as Pathological as the Taliban may be, it appears to me that they are the "Home Boys"...the local favorites.

Afghanistan is so screwed up.
Past immediate family and tribe, there aren't really any Afghan "Home Team."

It took major money to get various personalities to join the Northern Alliance and very little of what cooperation that did take place was from any notion of building a nation, it occurred because a local warlord wanted his turn.

Our biggest mistake first time around was leaving the Muj high and dry after the Sovs left, and the second biggest mistake was believing this time around that Afghanistan had any chance of becoming a functioning democracy.
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Old 30th November 2016, 01:18 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Past immediate family and tribe, there aren't really any Afghan "Home Team."

It took major money to get various personalities to join the Northern Alliance and very little of what cooperation that did take place was from any notion of building a nation, it occurred because a local warlord wanted his turn.

Our biggest mistake first time around was leaving the Muj high and dry after the Sovs left, and the second biggest mistake was believing this time around that Afghanistan had any chance of becoming a functioning democracy.
Exactly, the place is very tribal. Hatfields and McCoys.
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Old 1st December 2016, 01:28 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
I guess so. I mean, these people are so bad that even Genghis Khan refused to conquer them.
Not so. Genghis Khan was actually the last invader to successfully conquer Afghanistan.
His legacy is still evident, in the form of the Hazaras. These are an ethnic group that live in the area of Bamiyan (where the big Buddhas were, that the Taliban blew up). They have almond-shaped eyes, a result of interbreeding with Genghis' Mongol warriors.
Because of their ethnic, religious (they are Shia), and cultural differences from the largely Pashtun Taliban, they suffered horribly when Mazar-i-Sharif fell to the Taliban.
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Old 27th January 2018, 09:34 AM   #211
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I opposed the Russian invasion of Afghanistan in about 1980, which resulted in an American boycott of the Moscow Olympics. Historically, the Afghans in Victorian times were really wild and corrupt from top to bottom, and they gave the British Army at the time a lot of grief and trouble. Then the Americans and British, of course, with no sense of history and no war plan, had to make the same mistakes all over again in the 2000s.

The Afghans and Isis and Taliban believe in the death penalty, and not in gay marriage. They don't like foreigners, and they are very nationalistic with religious fanaticism. They are Sunni Islamic extremists and they want to suicide bomb Shia Muslims. They are very dangerous killers.
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Old 27th January 2018, 09:41 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The Afghans and Isis and Taliban believe in the death penalty, and not in gay marriage. They don't like foreigners, and they are very nationalistic with religious fanaticism. They are Sunni Islamic extremists and they want to suicide bomb Shia Muslims. They are very dangerous killers.
In fairness, this quote can be easily modified, and still be true:

The Republicans and Evangelists believe in the death penalty, and not in gay marriage. They don't like foreigners, and they are very nationalistic with religious fanaticism. They are Christian extremists and they want to suicide bomb Shia Muslims. They are very dangerous killers.
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Old 27th January 2018, 09:49 PM   #213
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Crescent, you are invited to take that to another thread. This one is about Afghanistan.
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Old 29th January 2018, 12:12 AM   #214
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We may need a political revolution in Afghanistan, perhaps making use of the CIA to help prop up a liberal leader.
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Old 31st January 2018, 02:20 PM   #215
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Clovis, are you from Afghanistan? Getting the CIA to prop up a liberal leader ... OK, in the unlikely event that this is proposed, it still requires a definition of "what is a liberal leader in Afghanistan" and "how many potential liberal leaders have a sufficiently developed network of influence and friends to be effective?"

You got any answers for that?
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Old 31st January 2018, 03:26 PM   #216
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Nice to see this thread still alive - I was about to come and post another "How's the war going in A'stan?' post after the recent attacks and this piece:

Quote:
The Taliban have an open and constant presence in 70 percent of Afghanistan, according to an extensive study undertaken by the BBC, which was conducted over several months in every corner of the country.
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Old 1st February 2018, 06:42 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Nice to see this thread still alive - I was about to come and post another "How's the war going in A'stan?' post after the recent attacks and this piece:
That's depressing reading

The Taliban seems to be very persistent which IMO means that it enjoys a significant level of public support in parts of Afghanistan.
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Old 1st February 2018, 07:04 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
That's depressing reading

The Taliban seems to be very persistent which IMO means that it enjoys a significant level of public support in parts of Afghanistan.
So we will bomb them until they love us.
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Old 1st February 2018, 07:29 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So we will bomb them until they love us.
Sadly that seems to be the approach - after all it worked so well for the Russians and the British Empire - twice

Having declared the Taliban beyond the pale (probably quite rightly), it's difficult know what to do especially when what we want to offer, a unified country under a liberal democracy seems not to be what a large chunk of Afghan society wants.
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Old 1st February 2018, 10:20 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So we will bomb them until they love us.
And yet - what few protections women have in Afghanistan are are result of the U.S./Coalition presence. The few protections for non-Sunni Muslims are a result of the U.S./Coalition presence.

It's a real no-win situation. We can't win, but if we leave, a whole lot more innocent people get killed or are consigned to lives of utter misery.
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Old 1st February 2018, 11:08 AM   #221
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It was clear from the outset that to accomplish anything in South and Central Asia, Pakistan, given its known support for terrorism in general and the Taliban in particular, and its nukes(!), was the one to take on. And US intel knew that perfectly well. Afghanistan next, but Iraq? WTF? The GOP did not know (or, much more likely, sought "easy" wins and photo ops, not real change). Big swings, big misses, and lots of cash to buddies in the arms and mercenary industries meanwhile. Oh, almost forgot: And a big MOAB for baby Donald to clap over.

Republicans call that sort of heavy-duty, bigtime losing "winning," as quite a number of friendly donor pockets are now stuffed, which is the only measure that matters. "Support the troops" should choke in the maw of every chickenhawk Republican sending kids to die for GOP power and glory.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 09:13 PM   #222
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Hlafordlaes, so where were you in 2002? Nowhere, nobody, and nothing.
Hindsight is 20-20. At some point, your foaming at the mouth needs to stop.
Where were you when we could have used this crystal clear vision?
Nowhere. So let's put the guilt of the dead on you, mister, for your failure to show up and speak up and make the difference that led to a different decision.
Because, as I am sure you agree, evil will prosper when good men do nothing.
And you did nothing. (at least nothing that mattered).
I've got friends who died there ... so it's on you, mister Crystal Ball bearer.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 11:41 AM   #223
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Pity Joey pulled the plug.

Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
I didn't say they were beaten, or that they would never make gains again, I said that they would never win, and that most people hate the Taliban. Get a life.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new...ectid=12200306

Looks like they're about to declare at 678/2 going by current developments.

The big question in all this is: will the Taliban allow the emerging cricketers to keep going, and maybe ultimately obtain test status?
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Old 12th February 2019, 12:35 PM   #224
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These mud people - it's almost as if they are real humans.

Defeating empires and all. Oh well. Even mud people can have a good run of a few millenia or so.

Afghanistan is about drug and weapons trades. You have to be an idiot not to see the explosion of poppy production and refined products after we took over and the epidemic of opiod deaths in the USA now.

We are killing our own people by producing, refining, and trafficking opium. Weapons sales are going the other way. Under diplomatic "pouches" that are ocean containers.

Poppy fields are impossible to spot, they're invisible to planes and satellites, embedded reporters, soldiers on patrol. There's nothing else they grow over areas as large as some states, but again: its undetectable.

So are the processing plants in Pakistan, the Khyber Pass checkpoint where the bribes are paid, all invisible. To the mockingbird media, to discussions on Afghanistan.

Should we be facilitating an opiod death epidemic in our own country in order to use those drug profits to destabilize yet more countries?

We shouldn't be involved in Afghanistan at the very least because of the stark historical lessons for those who tried. But the Taliban had the poppy trade suppressed. And for us here actually living in the USA where our government is supposed to protect us, the most dangerous thing out of Afghanistan is opium. And we are defending that trade militarily.
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Old 12th February 2019, 01:53 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
These mud people...
I love it when the first three words of a post save me reading the rest.

Thanks
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Old 12th February 2019, 01:58 PM   #226
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Opiod deaths are about 50,000 a year now in the USA.

That's one world trade center fatality toll every 3 weeks. All year long. Year after deadly year. Getting worse all the time.

Yet, this WTC toll is incessantly paraded in front of the sheeple while the vastly greater toll from our own government's opiate profit exploitation is mostly ignored. Not totally, no - but the disproportionality, the relentless propaganda repetition - that says enough about what Afghanistan "news" is all about.

The media could waltz right up to Osama Bin Laden and do a broadcast of that live interview on camera to millions of people on Frontline. Bin Laden, in that interview, directly threatened war within our borders if we did not leave Saudi Arabia, Palestine, etc.

But the poppies, half a million acres of it... invisible. 781 square miles. Osama Bin Laden occupied a couple square feet at a time and could hide. He had body guards. These opium fields have roads running right by them so what they do is put that invisible force field up so they cannot be seen.

It's only three or four million people employed in the illicit opium trade in Afghanistan. This miracle statistic: you can count the number of people in the industry but they are invisible for any other purpose. Like interviewing the truck drivers taking the stuff over the pass. They know 6,942 truckers are involved for data collection purposes, and that 100% are disabled. Deaf dumb and blind. They have a GPS controlled truck - it is an Afghanis With Disabilities employment program.

Chomsky has it right in terms of Manufacturing Consent in Afghanistan.
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Old 12th February 2019, 01:59 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I love it when the first three words of a post save me reading the rest.

Thanks
It's a parody.
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Old 12th February 2019, 04:57 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I love it when the first three words of a post save me reading the rest.



Thanks
The first three words are actually sarcasm.
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