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Tags 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

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Old 7th February 2019, 11:00 AM   #681
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
So you can be the most bipartisan, straight down the middle candidate and not be a centrist just because the GOP base invents crazy fantasies about you?
Hi have you met my friend? His name is "All Politics Ever of All Time."
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Old 7th February 2019, 02:55 PM   #682
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Tulsi Gabbard picked up an endorsement of sorts:
Still trying to get why Duke likes her on Israel, since her criticism of Israeli have been pretty mild.
But her being Buddies with Assad in Syria is enough for me to write her off as a contender.
Also not thrilled with her support for India's Modi, who seems hell bent on making India a Fundy Hindu Theocracy.
Still, her candidacy is going where fast.
She seems to be sort of like Trump in one way...a fondness for dictators if they are of the right stripe.
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Old 8th February 2019, 07:50 AM   #683
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Still trying to get why Duke likes her on Israel, since her criticism of Israeli have been pretty mild.
But her being Buddies with Assad in Syria is enough for me to write her off as a contender.
Also not thrilled with her support for India's Modi, who seems hell bent on making India a Fundy Hindu Theocracy.
Still, her candidacy is going where fast.
She seems to be sort of like Trump in one way...a fondness for dictators if they are of the right stripe.
I think he likes her on Israel since she's the only candidate for president right now that has criticized Israel at all. She's going nowhere because she's running as a foreign policy first candidate and her foreign policy is basically the Bush Doctrine 2.0.
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Old 8th February 2019, 08:53 AM   #684
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Every major issue that Democrats advocate are favored by a majority of Americans. How is that not "centrist?"
Keep in mind that when policies are taken individually, people may like the Democratic party's policies. But, sometimes people want things that are... contradictory. They may say "I want the government to do X", but if doing X would cause (for example) an increase in taxes then support may drop.

And its always easy to want something that you don't have, especially when such promises are often vague; once you have it, you might not find it was the utopia you were expecting. "Free health care? Hurray! Wait, its now causing waiting lists? Booo!!!"

Overall though, I do agree that the Democratic party is (on average) closer to what the average U.S. citizen wants.
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Old 9th February 2019, 05:02 PM   #685
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
I think he likes her on Israel since she's the only candidate for president right now that has criticized Israel at all. She's going nowhere because she's running as a foreign policy first candidate and her foreign policy is basically the Bush Doctrine 2.0.
No, she's a borderline isolationist, pretty much the antithesis of the Bush Doctrine.
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Old 9th February 2019, 07:51 PM   #686
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Keep in mind that when policies are taken individually, people may like the Democratic party's policies. But, sometimes people want things that are... contradictory. They may say "I want the government to do X", but if doing X would cause (for example) an increase in taxes then support may drop.
I once heard it expressed as people want a Liberal World that somehow still only has Conservative Policies (or something to that effect.)

That's obviously a tongue in cheek bit of over-simplification, but there is a truth in the margins of it.

I'd wager the the number of people who want all the things they claim they want from the Democrats (universal health care, increased societal safety nets, greater money spend on environmental reform, etc, etc, and so forth) and who really want to pay for it... well I'm not saying it's a lot but I am saying it's probably more then the Dems want to admit.
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Old 9th February 2019, 08:47 PM   #687
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I once heard it expressed as people want a Liberal World that somehow still only has Conservative Policies (or something to that effect.)

That's obviously a tongue in cheek bit of over-simplification, but there is a truth in the margins of it.

I'd wager the the number of people who want all the things they claim they want from the Democrats (universal health care, increased societal safety nets, greater money spend on environmental reform, etc, etc, and so forth) and who really want to pay for it... well I'm not saying it's a lot but I am saying it's probably more then the Dems want to admit.
Look at what we pay for Medicare, Medicaid, and military health care ("public" expenditures) per capita compared to all those other countries, including the single payer ones:
http://www.oecd.org/health/expensive...hataglance.htm
Pick a country, any country, emulate how they do it, and we can have UHC without even raising taxes.
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Old 9th February 2019, 09:28 PM   #688
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Look at what we pay for Medicare, Medicaid, and military health care ("public" expenditures) per capita compared to all those other countries, including the single payer ones:
http://www.oecd.org/health/expensive...hataglance.htm
Pick a country, any country, emulate how they do it, and we can have UHC without even raising taxes.
and if you think that is out of date, the figures for 2014 show that the US spent 17.1% of it's GDP on healthcare, the closest runner up being Sweden with 11.9%!
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Old 10th February 2019, 06:08 PM   #689
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Another fish enters the barrel:

Quote:
Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar announced her candidacy for president at a rally in Minneapolis on Sunday, becoming the fifth Democratic senator1 to launch a campaign. In contrast to some of the big names Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, Elizabeth Warren who had been expected to run for president for years, Klobuchar is a little bit more of a homespun, independent-label candidate.
Updated:

In Or At Least Exploring (By Current or Highest Office Held):

Senators:
Corey Booker
Kirsten Gillibrand
Kamala Harris
Amy Klobuchar
Elizabeth Warren

US Representatives:
John Delaney
Tulsi Gabbard

Cabinet Members:
Julian Castro

Mayors:
Pete Buttegieg

Unannounced But Considered Likely:

Vice Presidents:
Joe Biden

Senators:
Sherrod Brown
Bernie Sanders

US Representatives:
Beto O'Rourke

Mayors:
Michael Bloomberg
Bill De Blasio
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Old 12th February 2019, 07:06 PM   #690
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If you count Beto and DiBlasio, you have to count Swallwell, who's apparently planning on stealing Iowa because he was born there. Split the policy driven voters and get the "local hero" vote. He's a CA Congressman but has made something like fifteen trips to IA and zero to NH in the past six months.
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Old 12th February 2019, 07:18 PM   #691
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
If you count Beto and DiBlasio, you have to count Swallwell, who's apparently planning on stealing Iowa because he was born there. Split the policy driven voters and get the "local hero" vote. He's a CA Congressman but has made something like fifteen trips to IA and zero to NH in the past six months.
Hadn't heard of him, thanks!

Updated:

In Or At Least Exploring (By Current or Highest Office Held):

Senators:
Corey Booker
Kirsten Gillibrand
Kamala Harris
Amy Klobuchar
Elizabeth Warren

US Representatives:
John Delaney
Tulsi Gabbard

Cabinet Members:
Julian Castro

Mayors:
Pete Buttegieg

Unannounced But Considered Likely:

Vice Presidents:
Joe Biden

Senators:
Sherrod Brown
Bernie Sanders

US Representatives:
Beto O'Rourke
Eric Swallwell

Mayors:
Michael Bloomberg
Bill De Blasio
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Old 12th February 2019, 07:20 PM   #692
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Oh Hai! I am Kamala! And I smoked the marijuana while listening to rap groups that were popular in the 1980's! Like the Snoopy and the Tupac.

Uhhh...

and then I prosecuted pot crimes...

I love Tupac!

/she makes ******* Hillary look cool
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Old 12th February 2019, 07:43 PM   #693
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
/she makes ******* Hillary look cool
Funny you should say that...

Quote:
Kamala Harris is adding former Hillary Clinton staffers to her 2020 presidential campaign.

Veteran campaign finance lawyer Marc Elias will serve as the campaign's general counsel; Angelique Cannon, who worked for Clinton's 2016 campaign, will serve as national finance director; and David Huynh, who was Clinton's director of delegate operations in 2016, will serve as a senior adviser.

Lily Adams, a Clinton campaign alumna who has worked as Harris' spokeswoman, will be communications director.
It looks like Kamala is Hillary 2.0.
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Old 13th February 2019, 11:44 AM   #694
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh Hai! I am Kamala! And I smoked the marijuana while listening to rap groups that were popular in the 1980's! Like the Snoopy and the Tupac.

Uhhh...

and then I prosecuted pot crimes...
Lock 'em up by day, smoke 'em up by night? (Gag stolen from a blog).

It's interesting to see the media's reaction to this; the NY Times reveals it is in the bag for Harris:

Quote:
Kamala Harris Was Accused of Lying About Listening to Tupac and Snoop Dogg. The Truth Is More Complicated.
Note that despite that excessively long headline, the Times managed to obscure the actual accusation. She was accused of lying about listening to them while high. But the Times doesn't stop there. They labor mightily to prove the more complicated truth is that she was asked what musicians she liked, and before she could answer the second deejay asked her what she listened to while high. So she could argue that she meant she liked Snoopy and Tupy, not that she listened to them while high.

And more important, the Times avoids mentioning the possibility that what Harris meant was that she continued smoking pot after college when she was an Alameda county prosecutor working hard to convict people for pot possession.

Amusingly, given your comparison of Kamala to Clinton, the Times closes with what they see as a similar controversy. Clinton was interviewed on the same podcast years ago and mentioned that she carried around a bottle of hot sauce in her purse. Republicans supposedly pounced claiming that Hillary was obviously referring to some recent Beyonce lyric. Never mind that news outlets had reported on Hillary's Tabasco fetish back when she was the first lady.
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Old 13th February 2019, 12:33 PM   #695
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I once heard it expressed as people want a Liberal World that somehow still only has Conservative Policies (or something to that effect.)

That's obviously a tongue in cheek bit of over-simplification, but there is a truth in the margins of it.

I'd wager the the number of people who want all the things they claim they want from the Democrats (universal health care, increased societal safety nets, greater money spend on environmental reform, etc, etc, and so forth) and who really want to pay for it... well I'm not saying it's a lot but I am saying it's probably more then the Dems want to admit.
Someone once said Americans like a lot of government programs, but don't like big bureaucries.
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Old 13th February 2019, 12:34 PM   #696
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Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade View Post
Funny you should say that...



It looks like Kamala is Hillary 2.0.
Axiom, somebody who is as far to the left as you would like could never win a general election.
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Old 13th February 2019, 12:34 PM   #697
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Someone once said Americans like a lot of government programs, but don't like big bureaucries.
We are the country that loves giving money to the poor and hates welfare in roughly equal measures.
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Old 13th February 2019, 12:37 PM   #698
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Look at what we pay for Medicare, Medicaid, and military health care ("public" expenditures) per capita compared to all those other countries, including the single payer ones:
http://www.oecd.org/health/expensive...hataglance.htm
Pick a country, any country, emulate how they do it, and we can have UHC without even raising taxes.
But you forget one thing:Americans are going to insist on a lot of freedom in any UHC, they are going to demand the right to choose their own doctor, and to get another if they don't like the one they got. I don't think a Euro system where you pretty much are stuck with whatever doctor you get assigned will ever fly in the US. Choice is very important to Amereicans.
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Old 13th February 2019, 12:46 PM   #699
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
But you forget one thing:Americans are going to insist on a lot of freedom in any UHC, they are going to demand the right to choose their own doctor, and to get another if they don't like the one they got. I don't think a Euro system where you pretty much are stuck with whatever doctor you get assigned will ever fly in the US. Choice is very important to Amereicans.
Minor point... there is no 'Euro System' for universal health care. There are multiple systems that implement universal health care in different ways.

Britain covers everyone under their national health care system, but allows private insurance.

Switzerland makes it mandatory for people to have private health insurance (but subsidizes the cost for poor people).

France has a public health care system that covers everyone, but doesn't always pay 100%.
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Old 13th February 2019, 12:55 PM   #700
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
But you forget one thing:Americans are going to insist on a lot of freedom in any UHC, they are going to demand the right to choose their own doctor, and to get another if they don't like the one they got. I don't think a Euro system where you pretty much are stuck with whatever doctor you get assigned will ever fly in the US. Choice is very important to Amereicans.
This does speak to one of, in my opinion, one of our bigger problems in our political discourse where we talk about why one country has X but this country doesn't.

Government systems work better in countries where the populace want that system in place. That's not surprising.
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Old 13th February 2019, 01:55 PM   #701
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
We are the country that loves giving money to the poor and hates welfare in roughly equal measures.
Most people like the idea of being lauded, but have little interest in doing anything laudable.
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Old 13th February 2019, 04:49 PM   #702
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
But you forget one thing:Americans are going to insist on a lot of freedom in any UHC, they are going to demand the right to choose their own doctor, and to get another if they don't like the one they got. I don't think a Euro system where you pretty much are stuck with whatever doctor you get assigned will ever fly in the US. Choice is very important to Amereicans.
While I can't speak for any of the systems in Europe, here you can pick your doctor happily (with the proviso that they have room in the clinic for you as they do have clinic limits at most GPs just so the doctors aren't over whelmed.) You certainly don't get a state appointed one assigned to you.

In fact I always thought the US system was broken in that your Insurance Company could decide which Doctors and Hospitals you had a choice of, and if they stopped covering those ones you had to change or pay out of network costs to remain with them.
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Old 14th February 2019, 10:28 AM   #703
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Axiom, somebody who is as far to the left as you would like could never win a general election.
Regardless of your ideology, your ideal candidate probably has no chance of winning a general election. Ironically enough, that's the proof that democracy works.
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Old 14th February 2019, 11:02 AM   #704
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
<snip candidate list>
Jay Inslee, Governor WA state.
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Old 14th February 2019, 11:43 AM   #705
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Bloomberg says he will delay his decision on whether to run for the Dem Nomination or not.
The way things are going, it will be quicker to list the Democratic politicians who are NOT running for President rather then list those who are.
A lot of the Dems running are very much a "who the hell are they" deal.
It is going to be really interesting how the debates are going to be handled.
Maybe they need a playoff system like in sports.
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Old 14th February 2019, 11:46 AM   #706
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Here's the thing.

I've always sort of assumed that the primaries were largely a show, basically drumming up the illusion that all of the candidates could be "the one" in order to draw money in from everyone who supports them. That's why I've always rolled my eyes when people freak out and start shouting conspiracies when whatever dark horse candidate the internet falls in love with doesn't get the nomination.

I'd put folding money in the pot right now that the real movers and shakers of the DNC are already like 80-90% sure who their candidate is gonna be and have a very, very small handful (no more than 2 or 3) even on the broader "might possibly be it" list.
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Old 14th February 2019, 12:45 PM   #707
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Here's the thing.

I've always sort of assumed that the primaries were largely a show, basically drumming up the illusion that all of the candidates could be "the one" in order to draw money in from everyone who supports them. That's why I've always rolled my eyes when people freak out and start shouting conspiracies when whatever dark horse candidate the internet falls in love with doesn't get the nomination.

I'd put folding money in the pot right now that the real movers and shakers of the DNC are already like 80-90% sure who their candidate is gonna be and have a very, very small handful (no more than 2 or 3) even on the broader "might possibly be it" list.
Yeah, just like the movers and shakers in the GOP kept Trump from getting the nominatin.
I used to think that a few big shots in each party ended up decideing who got the nomination. 2016 shot that idea to hell.
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Old 14th February 2019, 12:49 PM   #708
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yeah, just like the movers and shakers in the GOP kept Trump from getting the nominatin.
I used to think that a few big shots in each party ended up decideing who got the nomination. 2016 shot that idea to hell.
I still stand behind my "Trump is almost never a good example of anything" belief and sincerely hope history will prove him the exception and not the rule.

Mainly because if I'm wrong everything is going to be so flustertrucked it won't matter so....

If Trump is a sign of things to come and not a red herring, political primaries aren't exactly high on our list of concerns.
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Old 14th February 2019, 03:04 PM   #709
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And I see they all are visiting Iowa.
Someone cue that song from "THE Music Man" "You Ought To Give Iowa A Try".
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Old 14th February 2019, 04:34 PM   #710
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ANd my nomination for the most idiotic issue so far in the Democratic race;Whether Karmela Harris is "Black" enough.
WHo.of any intelligence give a flying f--- about that, so long a she does a good job as Senator.
You have people trying to exploit identity politics on both sides of the political spectrum.
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Old 14th February 2019, 04:46 PM   #711
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yeah, just like the movers and shakers in the GOP kept Trump from getting the nominatin.

I used to think that a few big shots in each party ended up decideing who got the nomination. 2016 shot that idea to hell.
It wasn't for lack of trying. And the dems managed to make it work on their side.

This year, the big question on the Dem side is gonna be who can convince the super delegates to commit early.
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Old 14th February 2019, 04:47 PM   #712
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I still stand behind my "Trump is almost never a good example of anything" belief and sincerely hope history will prove him the exception and not the rule.



Mainly because if I'm wrong everything is going to be so flustertrucked it won't matter so....



If Trump is a sign of things to come and not a red herring, political primaries aren't exactly high on our list of concerns.
"Trump is a sometimes food."

- Cookie Monster, probably
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Old 14th February 2019, 05:31 PM   #713
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
But you forget one thing:Americans are going to insist on a lot of freedom in any UHC, they are going to demand the right to choose their own doctor, and to get another if they don't like the one they got. I don't think a Euro system where you pretty much are stuck with whatever doctor you get assigned will ever fly in the US. Choice is very important to Amereicans.
Is that actually the case in the UK, Canada, and Australia?
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Old 14th February 2019, 05:40 PM   #714
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
In fact I always thought the US system was broken in that your Insurance Company could decide which Doctors and Hospitals you had a choice of, and if they stopped covering those ones you had to change or pay out of network costs to remain with them.
This is correct. Doctors take certain types of insurance and not others.
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Old 14th February 2019, 05:41 PM   #715
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Here's the thing.

I've always sort of assumed that the primaries were largely a show,
The DNC can tilt the tables, but they can't rig the primaries completely.
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Old 14th February 2019, 05:46 PM   #716
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Updated with Inslee (thanks Varwoche):

In Or At Least Exploring (By Current or Highest Office Held):

Governors:
Jay Inslee

Senators:
Corey Booker
Kirsten Gillibrand
Kamala Harris
Amy Klobuchar
Elizabeth Warren

US Representatives:
John Delaney
Tulsi Gabbard

Cabinet Members:
Julian Castro

Mayors:
Pete Buttegieg

Unannounced But Considered Likely:

Vice Presidents:
Joe Biden

Senators:
Sherrod Brown
Bernie Sanders

US Representatives:
Beto O'Rourke
Eric Swallwell

Mayors:
Michael Bloomberg
Bill De Blasio
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Old 14th February 2019, 05:56 PM   #717
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It is going to be fascinating how then handle the debates with that many participating.
Maybe have multiple debates with totally different candidates at the start, and then get a March Madness style bracketing system to see who advances to the next debate....
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Old 14th February 2019, 06:07 PM   #718
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Meanwhile the Democrats have set some interesting hurdles for being invited to the first debate:

Quote:
Candidates can qualify either by attracting campaign donations from at least 65,000 people, including at least 200 people from at least 20 states, or by registering at least 1 percent in three state or national polls from a list of surveys approved by the party.
Note that it's either/or rather than both. The fundraising bit seems a nod to the "grassroots" fetishists, but it will probably result in a lot of people qualifying, especially since there seems to be no minimum requirement on the donation. This might be why the Democrats are already talking about splitting the debate in two (as the Republicans did in 2016).
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Old 14th February 2019, 07:29 PM   #719
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Jay Inslee, Governor WA state.
Geez, Louise, who ever heard of an unknown governor from a smallish state becoming President?

I've actually voted for the guy several times -- he used to be my congressman -- but you know who I'd still vote for if he wasn't in his 90's? Dan Evans. A Republican.
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Old 14th February 2019, 09:04 PM   #720
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I'll point out that the two largest ideological caucuses in Congress are the Republican Study Committee (uber-conservative) and the Congressional Progressive Caucus (uber-liberal). ETA: CPC is at a historic high and just gained 27 seats. RSC is the largest caucus of all, despite the pummeling the party took (they shed proportionately more moderates).

Don't be so certain that there's no more room on the outer edges of the Overton Window.

Trump and general reactionary-ism is not a U.S. thing nor a just one election thing. It's not just one party or side of the aisle.

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