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#1 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread
Since I inadvertently started a thread digression (Sorry!), can we move the discussion here?
What I said, which pretty much one and all disagreed with, was that I wish she'd take a damn DNA test and announce the results one way or another. I like Warren rather a lot. My point was that if she gets nominated for POTUS, which I hope she does, the R's would be incessantly complaining about her supposed lying about her ancestry. It would be endless. Why not put it to bed? I don't care if she does or does not have NA ancestry, which isn't going to be much in any case. I just want to close this issue and don't understand why she doesn't. |
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#2 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
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I overall like Warren, but thought her making a bid deal about Having a fairly distant Native American ancestor was pretty silly. But not a silly as people constanly harping about it. She did a dumb thing;;show me a politician who has not done a dumb thing.
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#3 |
Devilish Dictionarian
Join Date: Oct 2011
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As repeatedly mentioned, there is no definitive test of her ancestory, and since we all rely on family lore for our background and it isn't a condition for the presidency, it's all a load of crap and she shouldn't have to provide anything.
That way, she can legitimately run, and hopefully be beat by one of the many candidates I feel would be better in the job. |
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#4 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,706
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You don't understand why she doesn't? There seems to be a few good reasons.
The attacks are dishonest. Nobody involved in decision making seem to say it mattered. So a result doesn't invalidate a benefit she did receive. A negative result doesn't invalidate her memories of family stories. |
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#5 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,464
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Serious question: Did SHE make a big deal about it? AFAIK, she listed herself as having native american ancestry on some form when she worked for (attended?) a university, and her opponents found out about it and that started the whole thing.
The whole "controversy" is stupid. |
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#6 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,893
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Wiki has a nice summation of the issue:
Quote:
It seems like a non-issue that can neither be proven nor disproven. She never made a big deal out it. She never got any advantage from it. DNA testing would neither prove nor disprove anything. Lack of genealogical sources shows that she has no known ancestors on any of the tribal records, but those records are known to be incomplete. She never brought the issue up in the campaign, her opponent did. What she has is a claim of a story passed down through her family - nothing more, nothing less. In Mass. US Senate race, a question of heritage
Quote:
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#7 |
"más divertido"
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#8 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,727
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Quote:
Quote:
If Warren did take a DNA test and it came back with no NA heritage (as mine did), it doesn't take much imagination to know what Trump would do with that information. He wouldn't bother to mention that it doesn't prove anything...and that would be fake news. |
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#9 |
Muse
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 816
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Democrats are hounding people all over the country for "cultural appropriation". With Fauxcahontas we have what I would think is the highest level of cultural appropriation possible, yet the Democrats yawn and say, "Nothing to see here, please move along". No calls for her to prove it or resign. Nada. There is some serious hypocrisy going on here. Don't even try to convince me she wouldn't be getting Red Henned if she was a Republican.
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#10 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
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It, to the best of my knowledge, gets weird.
According to Politifact's breakdown of it outside of a weird and out of left field incident with a cookbook back in 1984 (no seriously) this whole thing started because Warren sent a formal notice to a couple of law schools (Harvard and University of Penn) claiming either Cherokee or Delaware blood in what appears to be a bid to get a teaching job. And this was pretty much it (outside of a one off reference in a 1996 University newsletter from Harvard touting the schools diversity) until 2012 when it got brought up... somehow in some context during her Senate race and sort of just snowballed from there. |
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#11 |
Evil Fokker
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I’m almost certain we’ve had this conversation before. With much the same findings.
It’s just another case of Trump (previously Brown) thinking he’s clever with a 3rd grade insult based on something he imagined to be true. |
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#12 |
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- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC |
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#13 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#14 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#15 |
"más divertido"
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#16 |
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#17 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2016
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She may well have been "red henned" if she were a Republican. However, that hypothetical is no excuse for actually calling her Pocahontas or Fauxcahontas as it has neither been proved nor disproved for reason that have been explained. Trump was calling her that before he had any idea whether it was true or not. He used it to degrade her, a tactic he so often resorts to.
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#18 |
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1. Cultural appropriation is a stupid concept.
2. The idea that it doesn't matter whether or not the claim she made is true or not because her opponent won't believe it doesn't make sense. 3. The whole thing is still pointless. |
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- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC |
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#19 |
Devilish Dictionarian
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#20 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#21 |
Illuminator
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#22 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#23 |
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As always Bob I will answer the question and give you one and only one chance to respond like a human being and not going down some recursive rabbit hole of stupidity.
Because it's better if we learn from other cultures and adopt things from them. If one culture has a good idea it should be shared and bad ideas should not be protected via them being part of a "culture." Essentially I reject the concept of "Culture" as these singular distinct thing separate from the ideas and opinions that form them. |
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- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC |
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#24 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Feb 2017
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While I don't particularly like her, I agree this is unimportant. As a side note I will say that I also doubt it has or will affect anyone's opinion. Anyone that cares(pretends to care) wasn't going to vote for her and anyone that was going to vote for her doesn't care.
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#25 |
Devilish Dictionarian
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#26 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#27 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#28 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#29 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#30 |
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Yeah I'm not a huge fan of the "One Sided Big Deal Argument."
If it was a big enough of a deal for her to bring it up (not in passing but in context where's obviously supposed to mean something and matter), it's a big enough deal for the other side to ask her to prove it. The whole thing is stupid across the board, but I can't get behind the argument that one side is making a "bigger deal" out of it. |
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- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC |
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#31 |
Devilish Dictionarian
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#32 |
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- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC |
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#33 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Because you can't. They will come back to it even if she does prove it with the DNA. Obama producing his birth certificate didn't end birtherism.
And what if the DNA doesn't show Native American heritage? Does that prove she was mistaken or lying? As has been pointed out, it doesn't. The most important reason she should ignore it is that it DOESN'T MATTER! Voters that are sitting on the fence don't actually care about what her heritage is. Neither does it really matter to those who would vote for her or against her. IMV, going forward defending this faux issue would only make her look weak and just play into those that oppose her. |
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#34 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,364
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What is more ridiculous are those giving her the nickname "Pocahontas" (or any other juvenile variants). She (Pocahontas) was actually an Algonquin-speaking person from the Tsenacommacah region in Virginia. The Cherokee are Iroquoian-speaking from much further west and north. Different nations, although both are North American natives. Or perhaps as different as German and Italian, although both nations are "European". It's like giving someone the Scottish name "Donald" even though their ancestry is German.
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#35 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Appropriation is a power dynamic in which members of a dominant culture take elements from a culture of people who have been systematically oppressed by that dominant group. This often manifests as denial of opportunity of the eleme t by the dominant culture (punishing black culture hair braiding as unprofessional) while allowing use of of the taken element as the demesne of the dominant culture (white braiding as trendy).
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#36 |
Muse
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#37 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#38 |
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//Slight hijack//
I don't give elected officials cutsie-poo names and that's regardless of how much I like or respect them. I would never call Warren "Pocahontas" but I also never called George H. Bush "Shrub" or "Dubya" (although I heard he liked that one) or Trump as "Cheeto" or anything else. |
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#39 |
Muse
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#40 |
Penultimate Amazing
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