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Old 6th November 2018, 07:31 PM   #1
michael44
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Kim Davis loses her re-election bid to a Democrat

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...UDcrOMLA7njg9E

And to one of the gay men she refused to issue a license to.
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Old 6th November 2018, 07:40 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by michael44 View Post
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...UDcrOMLA7njg9E

And to one of the gay men she refused to issue a license to.
Would have been sweet, but it's not the case. The winning Democrat won the party candidature ahead of the gay man who was denied a marriage license.
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Old 6th November 2018, 08:09 PM   #3
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Actually, the gay guy she denied the license to lost the primary. Dave Ermold was the one she denied the license to, and Elwood Caudill, Jr., won the Democratic primary and beat Davis. I stand corrected, but still gleeful.
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Old 6th November 2018, 08:10 PM   #4
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Cool, that's worth sharing on my writers' forum. We need some good news over there.
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Old 6th November 2018, 08:17 PM   #5
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Dammit, I was just about to post that in the elections thread!

Oh well, still good news. Skaaarew the bitch!
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Old 6th November 2018, 08:20 PM   #6
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Good riddance
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Old 6th November 2018, 08:22 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Dammit, I was just about to post that in the elections thread!

Oh well, still good news. Skaaarew the bitch!
Sentiment shared.
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Old 6th November 2018, 08:27 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by michael44 View Post
Actually, the gay guy she denied the license to lost the primary. Dave Ermold was the one she denied the license to, and Elwood Caudill, Jr., won the Democratic primary and beat Davis. I stand corrected, but still gleeful.
It's still .
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Old 7th November 2018, 01:23 PM   #9
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"I treated everybody equally because I quit issuing marriage licenses altogether,” Davis said at a forum in October, according to The Associated Press. “I took an oath to stand up and uphold our Kentucky constitution and federal constitution, that’s exactly what I did.”

4,210 to Davis' 3,566

I guess more people got tired of having to drive to the next county over to get a marriage licence. Of course she was gonna lose. I wouldn't read too far into a victory for LGBT though, it was more than likely a question of convenience for everyone in the county. Still 3,566 people didn't mind the drive. Remember we're talking rural KY here, not San Francisco.
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Old 7th November 2018, 02:19 PM   #10
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Even if you hate the gays, Kim Davis was a bad clerk. Cost the county 6 figures in legal fees, gay dudes still ended up married. That's a lot of pot holes that could have been filled.
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Old 7th November 2018, 02:45 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Even if you hate the gays, Kim Davis was a bad clerk. Cost the county 6 figures in legal fees, gay dudes still ended up married. That's a lot of pot holes that could have been filled.
Yup. Plus, the right thing to do if you don't agree with the job is to resign. Not sit there and refuse to do the job.
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Old 7th November 2018, 02:47 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yup. Plus, the right thing to do if you don't agree with the job is to resign. Not sit there and refuse to do the job.
Unless that job is to give advice and consent?
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Old 7th November 2018, 03:04 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
"I treated everybody equally because I quit issuing marriage licenses altogether,” Davis said at a forum in October, according to The Associated Press. “I took an oath to stand up and uphold our Kentucky constitution and federal constitution, that’s exactly what I did.”

4,210 to Davis' 3,566

I guess more people got tired of having to drive to the next county over to get a marriage licence. Of course she was gonna lose. I wouldn't read too far into a victory for LGBT though, it was more than likely a question of convenience for everyone in the county. Still 3,566 people didn't mind the drive. Remember we're talking rural KY here, not San Francisco.
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You assume only people who got married either voted or didn't vote for her?

Somewhat unlikely.
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Old 7th November 2018, 05:14 PM   #14
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Good.

Just Good.
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Old 7th November 2018, 05:26 PM   #15
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Yeah, that stupid cow got her nose rubbed in it. That's how you have to deal with her kind. They don't understand anything else.
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Old 8th November 2018, 11:49 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
You assume only people who got married either voted or didn't vote for her?

Somewhat unlikely.
Oh very true. I'm sure these probably weren't 3,566 marriage license seekers.
More than likely these were the folks that didn't mind being placed in the Nation's eye or having the County absorb legal fees on her behalf. Or likely fellow church goers/groups that felt the need to stick by a member regardless of her misinterpretation of the Bible.

The majority rightly decided to replace the squeaky wheel rather than continuing to oil it.

My main point was that the majority of people in rural KY couldn't care less about LGBT marriages. It's really not an issue. Even most church goers know better than to judge others or obstruct the law or taxes, "Render therefore unto Caesar" etc.. The LGBT population of rural areas normally goes unnoticed and unbothered by most.
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Old 9th November 2018, 01:37 AM   #17
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Why is county clerk even an elected office?
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Old 9th November 2018, 05:33 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Why is county clerk even an elected office?
Probably for the same reason that certain places in the US elect their judges.

In other words, something that might have made sense to the powers that be 200 years ago, but make no sense now, and cannot be changed due to inertia and "reasons."
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Old 9th November 2018, 06:18 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
"I treated everybody equally because I quit issuing marriage licenses altogether,” Davis said at a forum in October, according to The Associated Press. “I took an oath to stand up and uphold our Kentucky constitution and federal constitution, that’s exactly what I did.”

4,210 to Davis' 3,566

I guess more people got tired of having to drive to the next county over to get a marriage licence. Of course she was gonna lose. I wouldn't read too far into a victory for LGBT though, it was more than likely a question of convenience for everyone in the county. Still 3,566 people didn't mind the drive. Remember we're talking rural KY here, not San Francisco.
Chris B.
Nobody had to drive to the next county as the deputy clerks started issuing marriage licenses in Rowan county after she refused to comply with the law.
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Old 10th November 2018, 04:31 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Why is county clerk even an elected office?
Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
Probably for the same reason that certain places in the US elect their judges.
Exactly, and that reason is “so they can be removed”.
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Old 10th November 2018, 10:18 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Exactly, and that reason is “so they can be removed”.
The problem with electing judges is that they have to run for election.

This means that instead of passing judgements that are based on sound legal principles with sentences that are proportionate to the crime, you end up with overly harsh sentences so that the incumbent cannot be declared to be "soft on criminals."

I believe that judges, like municipal officials, should be hired based on objective criteria and maintain their position through adherence to a professional code of conduct and job expectations with a removal mechanism if they breech professional and/or ethical standards.
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Old 10th November 2018, 10:55 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
The problem with electing judges is that they have to run for election.

This means that instead of passing judgements that are based on sound legal principles with sentences that are proportionate to the crime, you end up with overly harsh sentences so that the incumbent cannot be declared to be "soft on criminals."

I believe that judges, like municipal officials, should be hired based on objective criteria and maintain their position through adherence to a professional code of conduct and job expectations with a removal mechanism if they breech professional and/or ethical standards.
Well, in Cook County there are so many judges to vote for that it's nearly impossible for the average voter to track their decisions, and although some folks read the Tribune or other recommendations, most just rubber stamp them any way for retention, and most probably vote straight party ticket for their initial election.
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Old 1st February 2019, 11:17 AM   #23
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So when it rains, it pours. Looks like little Kim needs to come up with some cash. As per usual, her loud mouthed, pearl clutching, right wing defenders are no where to be found.

The best part, the governor that supported her is one of the people bitching for her to pay it out of pocket, while she thinks the taxpayers should foot the bill. It's a little funny that the governor isn't actually saying he wants her to pay for it, it's just that the previous governor wanted it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rol...es-788218/amp/
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Old 1st February 2019, 11:22 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
So when it rains, it pours. Looks like little Kim needs to come up with some cash. As per usual, her loud mouthed, pearl clutching, right wing defenders are no where to be found.

The best part, the governor that supported her is one of the people bitching for her to pay it out of pocket, while she thinks the taxpayers should foot the bill. It's a little funny that the governor isn't actually saying he wants her to pay for it, it's just that the previous governor wanted it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rol...es-788218/amp/
I'm not convinced. Yeah, she did it, but how much support from the local/state government did she get?

Those people should have to pay, too.

BTW, assuming that she crowdsources the funding is another reason why restitution is not sufficient punishment.
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Old 1st February 2019, 11:30 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I'm not convinced. Yeah, she did it, but how much support from the local/state government did she get?

Those people should have to pay, too.

BTW, assuming that she crowdsources the funding is another reason why restitution is not sufficient punishment.
She should have been removed from office immediately when she refused to do her job, so yes, the people who had that authority but failed to act before it became a lawsuit have liability too.
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Old 1st February 2019, 11:31 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
So when it rains, it pours. Looks like little Kim needs to come up with some cash.
Couldn't she just ask the Pope for a loan? I hear the 2 of them are pretty close.
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Old 1st February 2019, 11:43 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Why is county clerk even an elected office? : confused :
To avoid the work of government being taken over by entrenched bureaucrats who don't really answer to the people they serve. Like most things in life, it's an option that solves some problems but creates others. You'll find that communities in different times and places will opt for different trade-offs.
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Old 1st February 2019, 12:10 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
She should have been removed from office immediately when she refused to do her job, so yes, the people who had that authority but failed to act before it became a lawsuit have liability too.
If it was an elected position, then who actually had the authority to remove her?
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Old 1st February 2019, 12:24 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
The problem with electing judges is that they have to run for election.

This means that instead of passing judgements that are based on sound legal principles with sentences that are proportionate to the crime, you end up with overly harsh sentences so that the incumbent cannot be declared to be "soft on criminals."

I believe that judges, like municipal officials, should be hired based on objective criteria and maintain their position through adherence to a professional code of conduct and job expectations with a removal mechanism if they breech professional and/or ethical standards.
I like the way it is done here in Colorado. Judges are appointed, but then appear on the ballot in cycles - but nobody runs against them, it is just an up or down vote. So if a judge is particularly bad, people can draw attention to that and get that judge removed.

It allows a little public input, but not too much.
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Old 1st February 2019, 12:25 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
If it was an elected position, then who actually had the authority to remove her?
That's my understanding. All the "support" she received was mostly just an expression of solidarity. She was not a direct subordinate of the governor or the legislature. She was the lawfully elected official and was solely responsible for her own actions and failures to uphold her duty.

Traditionally, resigning in protest is the way officials deal with conflicts between conscience and duty. Davis is finding that her alternative is coming at great personal expense.
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Old 1st February 2019, 12:26 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
If it was an elected position, then who actually had the authority to remove her?
I bet there's at least two authorities: One is the voters (obviously), and the other is a constitutionally-defined entity with impeachment authority over elected officials in that constituency.
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Old 1st February 2019, 02:19 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
If it was an elected position, then who actually had the authority to remove her?
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I bet there's at least two authorities: One is the voters (obviously), and the other is a constitutionally-defined entity with impeachment authority over elected officials in that constituency.
Yes, it's one of those things that's left to state law, but there is always a way to remove elected officials from office for malfeasance.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 08:00 AM   #33
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$220,000? Is that all? She'll crowdsource that in a day or two, and she'll end up with a big profit.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 08:08 AM   #34
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She could shag Donald, then sign an NDA.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 08:12 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
That's my understanding. All the "support" she received was mostly just an expression of solidarity. She was not a direct subordinate of the governor or the legislature. She was the lawfully elected official and was solely responsible for her own actions and failures to uphold her duty.

Traditionally, resigning in protest is the way officials deal with conflicts between conscience and duty. Davis is finding that her alternative is coming at great personal expense.
I keep trying to have sympathy for her. But I don't. She refused to recognize the law of the land and infringed on the rights of others. She made her own personal belief public policy. The State/County taxpayers etc should not cover her illegal acts.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 08:08 PM   #36
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This is germane.

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Old 3rd February 2019, 08:41 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I keep trying to have sympathy for her. But I don't. She refused to recognize the law of the land and infringed on the rights of others. She made her own personal belief public policy. The State/County taxpayers etc should not cover her illegal acts.
Oh, come now, she deserves at least the very least folks can do for her- thoughts and prayers, ya'll.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 10:08 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Oh, come now, she deserves at least the very least folks can do for her- thoughts and prayers, ya'll.
The right wing version of virtue signalling.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 10:37 PM   #39
bruto
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
To avoid the work of government being taken over by entrenched bureaucrats who don't really answer to the people they serve. Like most things in life, it's an option that solves some problems but creates others. You'll find that communities in different times and places will opt for different trade-offs.
I suspect that this kind of elected job works better at a more local level. The small towns I've lived in all my life have elected town clerks, but when there's a good town clerk party lines simply disappear, and it's not unheard of for a good town clerk to run unopposed and be double-endorsed. At the same time, though, the voters can easily oust one they don't like, so the result is usually a long-standing (and well-informed) town clerk whose job security consists in doing the job well. I've run into a few non-elected small town officials who were utter *****: choose whatever epithet describes an officious self-important martinet. The elective process may be chancy, and sometimes a little slow, but it tends to self correct.

I don't even know what party our town clerk runs under. I vote for her every time.
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Old 4th February 2019, 07:33 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Oh, come now, she deserves at least the very least folks can do for her- thoughts and prayers, ya'll.
Least? I thought that was the most folks can do? I
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