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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 31st December 2018, 03:20 PM   #1
RolandRat
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The Trump Presidency 12: The Dirty Dozen

Mod Info Continued from here
Posted By:Agatha


Twelve monkeys? It seems to sum up this Legislature.

Last edited by Agatha; 31st December 2018 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 31st December 2018, 03:26 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Twelve monkeys? It seems to sum up this Legislature.
I think we have a winner - Ratfans!
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Old 31st December 2018, 03:33 PM   #3
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ttrump tweeted that he was in the Oval Office, but as someone has observed there isn't a marine outside the West Wing.
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Old 31st December 2018, 03:42 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Nothing funny has been inserted yet.
So true.
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Old 31st December 2018, 03:56 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I had assumed that Trump kept repeating the same dumb mistakes (e.g. about how things like tariffs work) either because everyone he'd surrounded himself with was just as ignorant as him or because they didn't dare correct him, but according to Bob Woodward's book neither is the case. People try to explain things to him all the time, and he'll nod and appear to be listening, but will then carry on as if nothing had been said. He appears to have a fact-repelling forcefield around his brain.
Not that it's a defense, but this is a human trait we all share. It's hard to dislodge ideas that have years of entrenchment, for one thing. Additionally, there's the The [Backfire Effect].

I think it's a continuum of susceptibility. I'm not sure how to measure individual capacity, but I do notice some people are more adaptive than others. It appears to be weakly correlated with scoring for Openness in the [OCEAN] personality model.

Just as an anecdote, when I go out to restaurants with my family, my mother always tells the waitstaff that I don't like vegetables so can I get a substitution. I'm vegetarian. I remind her that no, I like vegetables, she's probably thinking of somebody else, please waitstaff don't replace the vegetables with anything, I'm happy to eat them. Every. Time. It's been 40 years.

My sister and I were just talking about an example with my dad. My kids were studying Roman vs Greek astronomical nomenclature. Jupiter is Roman, for example. The rest of the planets are Greek. He was telling my kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. They corrected him and pointed out that no, he was a dictator, but Agustus was the first actual emperor. I supported their point, and he said oh, ok.

Ten minutes later, in a completely different conversation, he was telling my sister's kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. My sister and I just met eyes across the livingroom, having the same thought: wha?

So it's interesting seeing these psychological phenomena in realtime, if a little frustrating. The ramifications are important for real world decisionmaking. In particular, it's one of the reasons I have withdrawn somewhat from skepticism. The organizations have traditionally adhered to a 'debate and educate' model, which I don't think has any prospect for success based on the body of research.
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Old 31st December 2018, 04:15 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Not that it's a defense, but this is a human trait we all share. It's hard to dislodge ideas that have years of entrenchment, for one thing. Additionally, there's the The [Backfire Effect].

I think it's a continuum of susceptibility. I'm not sure how to measure individual capacity, but I do notice some people are more adaptive than others. It appears to be weakly correlated with scoring for Openness in the [OCEAN] personality model.

Just as an anecdote, when I go out to restaurants with my family, my mother always tells the waitstaff that I don't like vegetables so can I get a substitution. I'm vegetarian. I remind her that no, I like vegetables, she's probably thinking of somebody else, please waitstaff don't replace the vegetables with anything, I'm happy to eat them. Every. Time. It's been 40 years.

My sister and I were just talking about an example with my dad. My kids were studying Roman vs Greek astronomical nomenclature. Jupiter is Roman, for example. The rest of the planets are Greek. He was telling my kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. They corrected him and pointed out that no, he was a dictator, but Agustus was the first actual emperor. I supported their point, and he said oh, ok.

Ten minutes later, in a completely different conversation, he was telling my sister's kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. My sister and I just met eyes across the livingroom, having the same thought: wha?

So it's interesting seeing these psychological phenomena in realtime, if a little frustrating. The ramifications are important for real world decisionmaking. In particular, it's one of the reasons I have withdrawn somewhat from skepticism. The organizations have traditionally adhered to a 'debate and educate' model, which I don't think has any prospect for success based on the body of research.
"Who was the first Roman emperor?" was a question in the original Trivial Pursuit game. When I answered "Augustus Caesar", I didn't get the cheese because the darn answer card said "Julius Caesar". The opposing team didn't care that I proved I was correct. I was not a happy camper.

But your point is absolutely correct. Once we get something entrenched in our minds, we have difficulty changing it. To this day, I have trouble with spelling "sugar" vs. "suger". I double guess myself all the time with that darn word.
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Old 31st December 2018, 04:22 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
"Who was the first Roman emperor?" was a question in the original Trivial Pursuit game. When I answered "Augustus Caesar", I didn't get the cheese because the darn answer card said "Julius Caesar". The opposing team didn't care that I proved I was correct. I was not a happy camper.

But your point is absolutely correct. Once we get something entrenched in our minds, we have difficulty changing it. To this day, I have trouble with spelling "sugar" vs. "suger". I double guess myself all the time with that darn word.
Ha - mine's "surgary" vs "surgery".
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Old 31st December 2018, 04:23 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I think we have a winner - Ratfans!
Obviously not
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 31st December 2018, 04:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
"Who was the first Roman emperor?" was a question in the original Trivial Pursuit game. When I answered "Augustus Caesar", I didn't get the cheese because the darn answer card said "Julius Caesar". The opposing team didn't care that I proved I was correct. I was not a happy camper.
The correct answer is "Moops"
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Old 31st December 2018, 04:55 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Not that it's a defense, but this is a human trait we all share. It's hard to dislodge ideas that have years of entrenchment, for one thing. Additionally, there's the The [Backfire Effect].

I think it's a continuum of susceptibility. I'm not sure how to measure individual capacity, but I do notice some people are more adaptive than others. It appears to be weakly correlated with scoring for Openness in the [OCEAN] personality model.

Just as an anecdote, when I go out to restaurants with my family, my mother always tells the waitstaff that I don't like vegetables so can I get a substitution. I'm vegetarian. I remind her that no, I like vegetables, she's probably thinking of somebody else, please waitstaff don't replace the vegetables with anything, I'm happy to eat them. Every. Time. It's been 40 years.

My sister and I were just talking about an example with my dad. My kids were studying Roman vs Greek astronomical nomenclature. Jupiter is Roman, for example. The rest of the planets are Greek. He was telling my kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. They corrected him and pointed out that no, he was a dictator, but Agustus was the first actual emperor. I supported their point, and he said oh, ok.

Ten minutes later, in a completely different conversation, he was telling my sister's kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. My sister and I just met eyes across the livingroom, having the same thought: wha?

So it's interesting seeing these psychological phenomena in realtime, if a little frustrating. The ramifications are important for real world decisionmaking. In particular, it's one of the reasons I have withdrawn somewhat from skepticism. The organizations have traditionally adhered to a 'debate and educate' model, which I don't think has any prospect for success based on the body of research.
Wait, I thought they were all Roman except for Saturn & Uranus...
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Old 31st December 2018, 04:57 PM   #11
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Trump has no ideas. Just years watching Foxnews. But of course when he does something they tell jim to do, then the idea is even more stuck. He will be mumbling ”wall” on the way to the impeachment hearing.
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Old 31st December 2018, 05:44 PM   #12
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Trump Tweets a new year message to the world


MEXICO IS PAYING FOR THE WALL through the many billions of dollars a year that the U.S.A. is saving through the new Trade Deal, the USMCA, that will replace the horrendous NAFTA Trade Deal, which has so badly hurt our Country. Mexico & Canada will also thrive - good for all!
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Old 31st December 2018, 05:49 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets a new year message to the world


MEXICO IS PAYING FOR THE WALL through the many billions of dollars a year that the U.S.A. is saving through the new Trade Deal, the USMCA, that will replace the horrendous NAFTA Trade Deal, which has so badly hurt our Country. Mexico & Canada will also thrive - good for all!
Another example of the "alternate facts" world he lives in.

ETA: if Mexico is paying for it through the billions of dollars a year we'll save, why is he asking Congress for $5 billion? Why not just wait a year, save the money, and pay for it then?

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Old 31st December 2018, 06:02 PM   #14
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trump tweets

The Democrats will probably submit a Bill, being cute as always, which gives everything away but gives NOTHING to Border Security, namely the Wall. You see, without the Wall there can be no Border Security - the Tech “stuff” is just, by comparison, meaningless bells & whistles...
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Old 31st December 2018, 07:51 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by 332nd View Post
Wait, I thought they were all Roman except for Saturn & Uranus...
Yes, mostly Roman, you're right - and at the time arguably a third Greek name would have been Pluto.
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Old 31st December 2018, 07:58 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
"Who was the first Roman emperor?" was a question in the original Trivial Pursuit game. When I answered "Augustus Caesar", I didn't get the cheese because the darn answer card said "Julius Caesar". The opposing team didn't care that I proved I was correct. I was not a happy camper.
There's an argument that I would accept claiming the first actual emperor was Tiberius. This being based on Augustus refused to call himself emperor, arguing he was merely the First Citizen, meaning most important citizen.

I also got boned on a Trivial Pursuit question once. Fluffernutter. I said peanut butter and marshmallow sandwich. The card said peanut butter and marshmallow spread sandwich. So no wedge for me, apparently.


Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
But your point is absolutely correct. Once we get something entrenched in our minds, we have difficulty changing it. To this day, I have trouble with spelling "sugar" vs. "suger". I double guess myself all the time with that darn word.
And I wonder if this defense mechanism worsens (improves?) with age. There's possibly a shifting calcification, even given different starting tendencies when we're young. I like to think of myself as pretty adaptive, but maybe I'm objectively getting stubborn and unaware of it because the mechanism is... well... working.
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Old 31st December 2018, 08:10 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
trump tweets

The Democrats will probably submit a Bill, being cute as always, which gives everything away but gives NOTHING to Border Security, namely the Wall. You see, without the Wall there can be no Border Security - the Tech “stuff” is just, by comparison, meaningless bells & whistles...
Because there's always a tweet: https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...380226?lang=en

Quote:
Obama's complaints about Republicans stopping his agenda are BS since he had full control for two years. He can never take responsibility.
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Old 31st December 2018, 08:37 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Not that it's a defense, but this is a human trait we all share. It's hard to dislodge ideas that have years of entrenchment, for one thing. Additionally, there's the The [Backfire Effect].

I think it's a continuum of susceptibility. I'm not sure how to measure individual capacity, but I do notice some people are more adaptive than others. It appears to be weakly correlated with scoring for Openness in the [OCEAN] personality model.

Just as an anecdote, when I go out to restaurants with my family, my mother always tells the waitstaff that I don't like vegetables so can I get a substitution. I'm vegetarian. I remind her that no, I like vegetables, she's probably thinking of somebody else, please waitstaff don't replace the vegetables with anything, I'm happy to eat them. Every. Time. It's been 40 years.

My sister and I were just talking about an example with my dad. My kids were studying Roman vs Greek astronomical nomenclature. Jupiter is Roman, for example. The rest of the planets are Greek. He was telling my kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. They corrected him and pointed out that no, he was a dictator, but Agustus was the first actual emperor. I supported their point, and he said oh, ok.

Ten minutes later, in a completely different conversation, he was telling my sister's kids that Julius Caesar was the first emperor. My sister and I just met eyes across the livingroom, having the same thought: wha?

So it's interesting seeing these psychological phenomena in realtime, if a little frustrating. The ramifications are important for real world decisionmaking. In particular, it's one of the reasons I have withdrawn somewhat from skepticism. The organizations have traditionally adhered to a 'debate and educate' model, which I don't think has any prospect for success based on the body of research.
Sorry to correct you,
but Mercury is Roman and is known as Hermes in Greece
Venus is the Roman goddess of love, sex, beauty, and fertility. Known as Aphrodite in Greece
Mars is the Roman God of War
Saturn is also Roman ...known as Cronus in Greece.
Uranus is Greek as is Neptune and Pluto.
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Old 31st December 2018, 09:06 PM   #19
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https://greekgodsandgoddesses.net/greek-vs-roman-gods/
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Old 31st December 2018, 09:16 PM   #20
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You guys are on the wrong pantheon. Trump is often Dopey but currently Grumpy.
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Old 31st December 2018, 11:20 PM   #21
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So all of you in the UK, Thailand, New Zealand and west east of the Rockies - how is 2019 shaping up so far?

I liked the year being 2018. Trump really did bum me out in 2017 - or not so much Trump as the fact that so many of my fellow Americans voted him into office. 2019 sounds weird, but then the new year always does, for a while.

Best wishes to all. I don't have any resolutions, but I'd like to worry less about politics in 2019. Trump is experiencing adversity which he might actually learn from. Probably not, but I'd love to see more of his supporters catch on to what he's doing to the presidency.

Last edited by Minoosh; 1st January 2019 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 31st December 2018, 11:24 PM   #22
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Stormy here on the Norwegian coast tonight, hoping it's not foreshadowing.
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Old 31st December 2018, 11:47 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Stormy here on the Norwegian coast tonight, hoping it's not foreshadowing.
I guess that depends on what she’s doing.
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Old 1st January 2019, 12:21 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Stormy here on the Norwegian coast tonight, hoping it's not foreshadowing.
I did not mean to leave out Europe!

ETA: Was trying to decide whether to put the UK in Europe.

Extreme barking here due to "conservative" state lawmakers deciding it would be a good idea if everyone could buy fireworks. Scaring the piss out of my dog. But I did de-clutter some so 2019 might be off to a promising start.

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Old 1st January 2019, 12:41 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
There's an argument that I would accept claiming the first actual emperor was Tiberius. This being based on Augustus refused to call himself emperor, arguing he was merely the First Citizen, meaning most important citizen.
That could be argued but he is considered by historians to be the first emperor. Augustus did not want to appear to be an emperor by taking the title (he learned from Julius Caesar's ambitions) but he was the de facto emperor.

Quote:
I also got boned on a Trivial Pursuit question once. Fluffernutter. I said peanut butter and marshmallow sandwich. The card said peanut butter and marshmallow spread sandwich. So no wedge for me, apparently.
You should have gotten the wedge. That kind of pedantry is just poor sportsmanship.
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Old 1st January 2019, 03:09 AM   #26
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Trump Tweets

Remember this. Throughout the ages some things NEVER get better and NEVER change. You have Walls and you have Wheels. It was ALWAYS that way and it will ALWAYS be that way! Please explain to the Democrats that there can NEVER be a replacement for a good old fashioned WALL!

2018 has been a year of historic accomplishments!

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Old 1st January 2019, 03:11 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Remember this. Throughout the ages some things NEVER get better and NEVER change. You have Walls and you have Wheels. It was ALWAYS that way and it will ALWAYS be that way! Please explain to the Democrats that there can NEVER be a replacement for a good old fashioned WALL!
That's what Albert François Lebrun tweeted about the Maginot line, right?
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Old 1st January 2019, 03:25 AM   #28
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He would have been right though. No German forces got through the Maginot Line.
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Old 1st January 2019, 03:27 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Yes, mostly Roman, you're right - and at the time arguably a third Greek name would have been Pluto.
Saturn is a Roman name. We just had the Roman feast of Saturnalia. My mate at work celebrates that rather than Christmas. Io Saturnalia. And Pluto is the Roman equivalent of Hades (Greek), but I will give you Uranus.
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Old 1st January 2019, 03:32 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Sorry to correct you,
but Mercury is Roman and is known as Hermes in Greece
Venus is the Roman goddess of love, sex, beauty, and fertility. Known as Aphrodite in Greece
Mars is the Roman God of War
Saturn is also Roman ...known as Cronus in Greece.
Uranus is Greek as is Neptune and Pluto.
Sorry my inner pedant can't hide this morning. Neptune is the Roman equivalent of Poseidon god of the sea. And Pluto is the Roman equivalent of Hades. All the planets are the Roman gods except Uranus and I assume Uranus crept in because the name sounds kind of Roman (his Roman equivalent is Caelus). Sorry, back into my pedant hole now).
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Old 1st January 2019, 05:14 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Stormy here on the Norwegian coast tonight, hoping it's not foreshadowing.
So does Trump!
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Old 1st January 2019, 05:29 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Remember this. Throughout the ages some things NEVER get better and NEVER change. You have Walls and you have Wheels.
So presumably the Presidential Limo has solid hand sawn wooden cartwheels?
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Old 1st January 2019, 05:46 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Stormy here on the Norwegian coast tonight, hoping it's not foreshadowing.
Sunshine in Wales. Our winter of discontent become glorious summer ...
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Old 1st January 2019, 05:47 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
So presumably the Presidential Limo has solid hand sawn wooden cartwheels?
And a rack for buggy-whips.
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Old 1st January 2019, 06:30 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
Sorry my inner pedant can't hide this morning. Neptune is the Roman equivalent of Poseidon god of the sea. And Pluto is the Roman equivalent of Hades. All the planets are the Roman gods except Uranus and I assume Uranus crept in because the name sounds kind of Roman (his Roman equivalent is Caelus). Sorry, back into my pedant hole now).
That's all right. Mine was hard at work earlier.
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Old 1st January 2019, 06:53 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
trump tweets

The Democrats will probably submit a Bill, being cute as always, which gives everything away but gives NOTHING to Border Security, namely the Wall. You see, without the Wall there can be no Border Security - the Tech “stuff” is just, by comparison, meaningless bells & whistles...
Yeah, this seems worth $15 billion.
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Old 1st January 2019, 07:32 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
Sunshine in Wales.
You know the rule about extraordinary claims...
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Old 1st January 2019, 07:36 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
Sorry my inner pedant can't hide this morning. Neptune is the Roman equivalent of Poseidon god of the sea. And Pluto is the Roman equivalent of Hades. All the planets are the Roman gods except Uranus and I assume Uranus crept in because the name sounds kind of Roman (his Roman equivalent is Caelus). Sorry, back into my pedant hole now).
Well, everybody knows that the Greeks totally copied Roman Godjargon.
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Old 1st January 2019, 07:40 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
Sorry my inner pedant can't hide this morning. Neptune is the Roman equivalent of Poseidon god of the sea. And Pluto is the Roman equivalent of Hades. All the planets are the Roman gods except Uranus and I assume Uranus crept in because the name sounds kind of Roman (his Roman equivalent is Caelus). Sorry, back into my pedant hole now).
It's all Greek to me.
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Old 1st January 2019, 07:45 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
He would have been right though. No German forces got through the Maginot Line.
They went around it.
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