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Tags 2020 elections , Howard Schultz , presidential candidates , third parties , third party candidates

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Old 28th January 2019, 07:54 PM   #41
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It seems they're more common than rats in NYC or churches in the Deep South.
And taste as good!
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Old 28th January 2019, 08:13 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It seems they're more common than rats in NYC or churches in the Deep South.
Remember that scene in one of the Shrek films where the terrified customer of one Farbucks ran across the street to the other Farbucks? That wasn't an exaggeration. Last time we went to the Seattle public library (Ok, it's been quite a while), there were Starbucks on the other THREE corners. Having them on two corners is routine.

But I've defeated them! I bought a fancy automatic espresso machine so I no longer have to go to Town and get my wife two iced lattes daily. I just make sure the machine has enough Starbucks branded beans. Aww, crappe.
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Old 28th January 2019, 08:19 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Remember that scene in one of the Shrek films where the terrified customer of one Farbucks ran across the street to the other Farbucks? That wasn't an exaggeration. Last time we went to the Seattle public library (Ok, it's been quite a while), there were Starbucks on the other THREE corners. Having them on two corners is routine.

But I've defeated them! I bought a fancy automatic espresso machine so I no longer have to go to Town and get my wife two iced lattes daily. I just make sure the machine has enough Starbucks branded beans. Aww, crappe.
I don't like their coffee at all. It tastes burnt to me.
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Old 28th January 2019, 08:20 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't like their coffee at all. It tastes burnt to me.
Oh, that's just your taste buds shutting down in self-defense.
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Old 28th January 2019, 10:33 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
So in some ways Schultz is actually kinda more traditional Republican (Chamber of Commerce type) than Trump.
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Old 28th January 2019, 10:45 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
The reason the country can't afford it is all of the middle-men. It's a problem that has grown over time because it wasn't designed right in the first place. Now there are a lot of "vested interests" who will fight for the status quo or for more subsidies so that people can buy private insurance, but nothing that will hurt their own bottom like. The system is set up to please insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and doctors, but not to be efficient.

If anyone's curious, here's how they do things in Japan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...surance_(Japan)

Quote:
National Health Insurance (国民健康保険 Kokumin-Kenkō-Hoken) is one of the two major types of insurance programs available in Japan. The other is Employees' Health Insurance (健康保険 Kenkō-Hoken). National Health insurance is designed for people who are not eligible to be members of any employment-based health insurance program. Although private insurance is also available, all Japanese citizens, permanent residents, and any non-Japanese residing in Japan with a visa lasting three months or longer are required to be enrolled in either National Health Insurance or Employees' Health Insurance.[1] On July 9, 2012, the alien registration system was abolished and foreigners are now able to apply as part of the Basic Resident Registration System. Foreigners who reside in Japan for more than three months need to register for national health insurance.[2]
So that basically covers literally everyone except people who are here for less than 3 months. And everyone is required to be enrolled in one of these 2 programs. Simple.

How much does it cost? I can't quote an exact number right now, but it seems to be very reasonable compared to what I hear about the cost of insurance in the US.

According to this:
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/...lth-u-s-spends

In 2017, the US spent $10,224 per capita on healthcare, Japan $4,717 per capita. So less than half.

Clearly 'Murica is "Doing It Wrong" when it comes to healthcare. And maybe Japan's system isn't perfect, I get that, but it is affordable, rational and efficient.
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Last edited by Puppycow; 28th January 2019 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 28th January 2019, 11:06 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post


Clearly 'Murica is "Doing It Wrong" when it comes to healthcare. And maybe Japan's system isn't perfect, I get that, but it is affordable, rational and efficient.
Clearly 'Murica is "Doing It Wrong",when you consider how many are uninsured or underinsured because they can't afford it. No system is perfect. Perfection is impossible. We have to strive for is the least not perfect "not perfect" system.
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Old 28th January 2019, 11:18 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Clearly 'Murica is "Doing It Wrong",when you consider how many are uninsured or underinsured because they can't afford it. No system is perfect. Perfection is impossible. We have to strive for is the least not perfect "not perfect" system.
Yeah. That too. Japan's system covers everybody. (Those in the country for less than 3 months excepted, but even they can generally buy affordable travel insurance).
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Old 29th January 2019, 12:08 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
So in some ways Schultz is actually kinda more traditional Republican (Chamber of Commerce type) than Trump.
It hasn't been addressed but his economic positions are Paul Ryan style far right of the current GOP. He's a cut everything to the bone to give tax cuts type.
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Old 29th January 2019, 08:09 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I think Shultz is delusional. He's not very charismatic and not even popular in his home state of Washington. In fact, he's a bit of a pariah in Seattle.
Sound a lot like another person who became president.
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Old 29th January 2019, 08:20 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Sound a lot like another person who became president.
It does. But Schultz is smarter and was actually a successful business man. And even though I despise Trump, he's still the train wreck that you turn to watch. Schultz is more boring to watch than grass growing.
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Old 29th January 2019, 12:10 PM   #52
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Publicity for his book tour.
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Old 29th January 2019, 12:11 PM   #53
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Who is this guy supposed to be an appealing candidate to?
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Old 29th January 2019, 12:23 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Who is this guy supposed to be an appealing candidate to?
Disaffected suburban GOP voters and billionaires? He's been openly transparent about his motivation being personal greed.

ETA:

In 2016 the ANES surveyed 4,271 Americans. Howard Schultz's platform (stricter gun control, same-sex marriage, and opposed to taxing millionaires) was supported by exactly 98 people (2.23%). Only 62 of them actually voted. #Schultz2020

Last edited by Stacko; 29th January 2019 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 29th January 2019, 01:31 PM   #55
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Even if he runs, the guy will not get much traction.
Would not be surprised if he ends up trying for the Libertarian party nod.
I am not thrilled with Cortez's Tax Plan either (I think the trigger for 70% should be considerably higher then Ten Million dollars a year) but I note other Dems are not exactly rushing out to support it. It's going nowhere.
Problem is he is not really a centrist.
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Old 29th January 2019, 01:43 PM   #56
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In some of his first interviews, Schultz has asked for "tax reform" and "entitlement reform" without actually defining them, but he is against universal health care and increased taxes. He is, of course, against "government waste," taking a brave stand against all the candidates who are for it. Some are saying he should be running as a Republican.
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Old 29th January 2019, 01:44 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Even if he runs, the guy will not get much traction.
Would not be surprised if he ends up trying for the Libertarian party nod.
I am not thrilled with Cortez's Tax Plan either (I think the trigger for 70% should be considerably higher then Ten Million dollars a year) but I note other Dems are not exactly rushing out to support it. It's going nowhere.
Problem is he is not really a centrist.

I think Schultz is not really that serious. He's mused about running before. Let's see him put an organization together and then I might pay attention.

As for Cortez's tax plan. She's not running for POTUS. She's just pushing back on the idea that a 70 percent top marginal tax rate is radical socialism or an economic disaster. I'm fully in agreement with AOC that we need more tax rates and a higher top rate. As to what the rates and what the trigger rates should be offers room for debate.
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Old 29th January 2019, 02:22 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It does. But Schultz is smarter and was actually a successful business man. And even though I despise Trump, he's still the train wreck that you turn to watch. Schultz is more boring to watch than grass growing.
Don’t underestimate how interesting watching the grass grow or waiting for the cows to come home can be.
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Old 29th January 2019, 02:24 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Who is this guy supposed to be an appealing candidate to?
People who like to drop 5 bucks for coffee.
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Old 29th January 2019, 02:27 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Don’t underestimate how interesting watching the grass grow or waiting for the cows to come home can be.
Alrightee then. (Trying to do my best Jim Carrey)
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Old 29th January 2019, 02:51 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It does. But Schultz is smarter and was actually a successful business man. And even though I despise Trump, he's still the train wreck that you turn to watch. Schultz is more boring to watch than grass growing.
Reminds me of The Sing-Song of Old Man Kangaroo.

Progressives: "We want an exciting president who's interesting to watch in action!"

Trump Voters: "Hold my beer."

Seriously, don't you want a nice boring president who just does the job and doesn't make a big scene or fuss?

Because that's what I want. I want a president who keeps his mouth shut, stays away from the bully pulpit, and sends a State of the Union letter to Congress every year.

Last edited by theprestige; 29th January 2019 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 29th January 2019, 03:35 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Reminds me of The Sing-Song of Old Man Kangaroo.

Progressives: "We want an exciting president who's interesting to watch in action!"

Trump Voters: "Hold my beer."

Seriously, don't you want a nice boring president who just does the job and doesn't make a big scene or fuss?

Because that's what I want. I want a president who keeps his mouth shut, stays away from the bully pulpit, and sends a State of the Union letter to Congress every year.
I would love a boring President. But that's just NOT how this works. If it was, Hillary would be President. Boring people don't make it through the primaries let alone winning a general election. I want a progressive candidate that the electorate responds to and votes for.
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Old 29th January 2019, 07:28 PM   #63
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I have no interest in seeing him run. Whatever issues he has with the two-party system, this is not the election to bumble **** around with them. That said. We don't need free Medicare for all. We need to just go back to Obama Care/ACA, say if there are no carriers in your area, you can pay your premium at whatever the ACA subsidized rate is and call it a day. Free Medicare for all is a solution in search of a problem. Let's not go all crazy about it.

Same with education. It's okay if students come out of college with some debt, just not the debt they have now. Why does it take three years in the UK and Europe to get a BSC and four years in the US? There could be some savings there.

Progressives shouldn't talk about free, they should talk about costing less, huge difference there.
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Old 29th January 2019, 07:34 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I have no interest in seeing him run. Whatever issues he has with the two-party system, this is not the election to bumble **** around with them. That said. We don't need free Medicare for all. We need to just go back to Obama Care/ACA, say if there are no carriers in your area, you can pay your premium at whatever the ACA subsidized rate is and call it a day. Free Medicare for all is a solution in search of a problem. Let's not go all crazy about it.

Same with education. It's okay if students come out of college with some debt, just not the debt they have now. Why does it take three years in the UK and Europe to get a BSC and four years in the US? There could be some savings there.

Progressives shouldn't talk about free, they should talk about costing less, huge difference there.
NO, it's not. The Affordable Care Act was better than nothing. But one only need to look around the rest of the Developed World and see that our system works poorly.
I ABSOLUTELY believe we need to go to some form of Universal Healthcare and the ACA is just a bandaid for a broken system.
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Old 29th January 2019, 08:07 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Reminds me of The Sing-Song of Old Man Kangaroo.

Progressives: "We want an exciting president who's interesting to watch in action!"

Trump Voters: "Hold my beer."

Seriously, don't you want a nice boring president who just does the job and doesn't make a big scene or fuss?

Because that's what I want. I want a president who keeps his mouth shut, stays away from the bully pulpit, and sends a State of the Union letter to Congress every year.
Most progressives I know are leaning Warren. She's a law professor who's easy to imagine as a benevolent 5th grade teacher.

Progressives are a-ok with boring as long as the policies are correct.
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Old 29th January 2019, 08:12 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I have no interest in seeing him run. Whatever issues he has with the two-party system, this is not the election to bumble **** around with them. That said. We don't need free Medicare for all. We need to just go back to Obama Care/ACA, say if there are no carriers in your area, you can pay your premium at whatever the ACA subsidized rate is and call it a day. Free Medicare for all is a solution in search of a problem. Let's not go all crazy about it.

Same with education. It's okay if students come out of college with some debt, just not the debt they have now. Why does it take three years in the UK and Europe to get a BSC and four years in the US? There could be some savings there.

Progressives shouldn't talk about free, they should talk about costing less, huge difference there.
Some things work better when they're paid for via taxes. Highways, emergency fire service, and military are good examples.

Healthcare is like them.

We really need to join the rest of the developed world on this.
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Old 29th January 2019, 08:17 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Most progressives I know are leaning Warren. She's a law professor who's easy to imagine as a benevolent 5th grade teacher.



Progressives are a-ok with boring as long as the policies are correct.
Let me guess: You're thinking of legislative policy.
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Old 29th January 2019, 08:18 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I ABSOLUTELY believe we need to go to some form of Universal Healthcare and the ACA is just a bandaid for a broken system.
Indeed. "We can't afford it" is such nonsense. In a lot of ways we can't afford to not have some form of universal health care. Here are two things we can do to help us "afford" it:
1) increase taxes
2) spend less on our socialist military jobs program
bonus #3 – eliminate fossil fuel subsidies

It's quite simple, really. For healthier, happier, more productive people we can raise more money and stop spending so much on stuff we don't need.
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Old 29th January 2019, 08:34 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Indeed. "We can't afford it" is such nonsense. In a lot of ways we can't afford to not have some form of universal health care. Here are two things we can do to help us "afford" it:
1) increase taxes
2) spend less on our socialist military jobs program
bonus #3 – eliminate fossil fuel subsidies

It's quite simple, really. For healthier, happier, more productive people we can raise more money and stop spending so much on stuff we don't need.
I just ask those people who say we can't afford it, why is it that so many other countries can? How is it possible that France, Japan, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Germany etc, etc, etc can?
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Old 29th January 2019, 08:44 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I just ask those people who say we can't afford it, why is it that so many other countries can? How is it possible that France, Japan, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Germany etc, etc, etc can?
Because those are all socialist countries and they're all going to hell....
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Old 29th January 2019, 08:50 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I just ask those people who say we can't afford it, why is it that so many other countries can? How is it possible that France, Japan, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Germany etc, etc, etc can?
'Cuz they don't pay NATO Dues.
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Old 29th January 2019, 09:19 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
'Cuz they don't pay NATO Dues.
You think?
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:36 PM   #73
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Problem I have with Schultz is he is not really a centrist..but a de facto BIg BUsiness Republican pretending to be a centrist.
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:45 PM   #74
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:53 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Problem I have with Schultz is he is not really a centrist..but a de facto BIg BUsiness Republican pretending to be a centrist.
He's also maybe not a "good government" moderate, at least when the government doesn't give him what he wants.
https://www.salon.com/2019/01/31/wha...ionaire-class/
https://slate.com/business/2019/01/s...ball-team.html
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:19 PM   #76
Arcade22
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Clearly 'Murica is "Doing It Wrong" when it comes to healthcare. And maybe Japan's system isn't perfect, I get that, but it is affordable, rational and efficient.
It's always so fascinating to hear Americans talk about how "we can't afford all of these nice things" when essentially all other major developed western countries can and (if their politicians want it) do offer "free" higher public education, healthcare and public insurance together with acceptable social welfare provisions.

In truth Americans really can afford this, as in most cases publicly funded non-profit driven healthcare systems ends up being far more cost effective than for-profit systems, it's just that they can't muster the courage to raise taxes. They won't raise enough taxes to pay their bills, because it would be unpopular, so they end up taking loans to fund their budget instead. This gives the incorrect impression that the current public expenditure is simply too high and unsustainable when in reality it really is sustainable.

Republicans "starve the beast" tactic has failed catastrophically and made the debate about public fiances incredibly toxic and politically sensitive. They have even come to believe their own ******** and lies.
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Last edited by Arcade22; 31st January 2019 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 31st January 2019, 04:18 PM   #77
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Despite our machine, I wound up having to buy my wife one of Howard's drinks today. They've raised the prices AGAIN!
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Old 31st January 2019, 04:51 PM   #78
Pope130
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Despite our machine, I wound up having to buy my wife one of Howard's drinks today. They've raised the prices AGAIN!
Can you deduct that as a campaign contribution?
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Old 31st January 2019, 05:46 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Problem I have with Schultz is he is not really a centrist..but a de facto BIg BUsiness Republican pretending to be a centrist.
"Centrist" nowadays just means "big business republican who isn't a religious nut or full on anarcho-capitalist. "
ETA: Bush-era neoconservatives are "centrists" now, as is the "donor base" of the Democratic Party.
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Last edited by kellyb; 31st January 2019 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 31st January 2019, 05:54 PM   #80
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Threatens?
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