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View Poll Results: Which nation is currently the most #$%@ed up?
America: Shutdowns, walls, investigations, arrests. 10 19.61%
Britain: Brexit, hard or soft or maybe another referendum, let's try not to think too hard about the Irish border issue 15 29.41%
Venezuela: Hyperinflation, weight loss, loss of international recognition, flight of educated classes 18 35.29%
Belgium: Government falls 0 0%
France: Yellow vest protests 0 0%
Effed up nation of your choice 8 15.69%
It's all good, nothing is wrong. 0 0%
On Planet X and in Germany, things are functioning really pretty well right now. 0 0%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 30th January 2019, 12:48 PM   #1
crescent
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Poll: Which nation currently has the most #$%@ed up politics?

America: We Yanks have Donald Trump. Investigation, prosecution of multiple associates of the President, regular lying, revolving staff doors. Government shutdown, wall that is not a wall. We're a mess.

Great Britain: Brexit "We're totally not going to leave without a negotiated agreement in place but won't actually negotiate an agreement that gets accepted by the British public or the EU, and we totally that the "Will of the people" means doing something that the majority no longer want to do."

Belgium: Somehow still exists as a nation, much to the consternation of many American conservatives (George Will has spent decades predicting the immanent demise of Belgium). I'm not fully up to speed on that, but it has it's own thread. Belgian Government Falls.

Venezuela: Hyperinflation, many nations not recognizing Maduro any longer. Mass weight loss due to food shortages. Educated people leaving in droves as refugees.

France: Yellow vest protests shutting things down. Unfortunate tolerance of antisemitism amongst the protesters.

Any others?


ETA: I started this thread because every time I think that the current state of American politics couldn't get much worse, I just open the Brexit thread and find out that the UK is even worse off right now. It's like we are in a rivalry to have the most disastrous and ineffectual political situations.

Last edited by crescent; 30th January 2019 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 30th January 2019, 12:54 PM   #2
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Somalia - though it in many ways barely counts as a nation since it's Government barely controls anything outside Mogadishu.

Syria - Enough said.

Yemen - pretty much Syria II
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Old 30th January 2019, 12:55 PM   #3
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Any African nations with a warlord dictator and a thousand scared villages. There are a few of those.
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Old 30th January 2019, 01:01 PM   #4
crescent
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Somalia - though it in many ways barely counts as a nation since it's Government barely controls anything outside Mogadishu.

Syria - Enough said.

Yemen - pretty much Syria II
Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
Any African nations with a warlord dictator and a thousand scared villages. There are a few of those.
These are good points. Afghanistan falls into that category as well. I was thinking a bit more along the lines of nations that are usually somewhat stable and relatively prosperous - although Venezuela doesn't quite meet that standard.

We're at a point where the nations that are traditionally thought of stable world leaders are really just flailing.
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Old 30th January 2019, 01:03 PM   #5
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I reckon Turkey should get a look in there as well, with their Prez seeming intent on becoming emperor for life.
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Old 30th January 2019, 01:12 PM   #6
Giordano
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For me it was a tough choice between the USA and the UK. But when I contempt the disaster of Brexit I have to give the nod to the latter.
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Old 30th January 2019, 01:23 PM   #7
Roger Ramjets
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My criteria is how many people in the country are affected. Therefore, while I agree that Somalia is seriously #$%@ed up politically, I voted for America due to its much larger population (325 billion vs 15 billion).

However, even ignoring population, depending on what you consider to be '#$%@ed up' there are many other candidates which may be more deserving. Many consider that any form of democracy (no matter how flawed) is better than an absolute monarchy or theocracy. By that criteria Saudi Arabia, Iran, the Vatican City and Tonga (to name just a few) are worse than Somalia.
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Old 30th January 2019, 01:46 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
We're at a point where the nations that are traditionally thought of stable world leaders are really just flailing.
Not for the first time. I remember them flailing in the 70's, and the 80's, and the 90's, and... in fact most countries are 'flailing' most of the time. But that's not the same as '#$%@ed up'.

Quote:
Great Britain: Brexit "We're totally not going to leave without a negotiated agreement in place but won't actually negotiate an agreement that gets accepted by the British public or the EU, and we totally that the "Will of the people" means doing something that the majority no longer want to do."
Flailing for sure, but it could be much worse. Imagine if the government decided to exit the EU immediately - with no referendum, no transition and against the wishes of well over half the population - that would be #$%@ed up.

In comparison the US is much more #$%@ed up than the UK, since that's how our government has been operating for the past few years.
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Old 30th January 2019, 01:54 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
My criteria is how many people in the country are affected. Therefore, while I agree that Somalia is seriously #$%@ed up politically, I voted for America due to its much larger population (325 billion vs 15 billion).
I know the Brits have this weird thing where a billion is equal to 1,000,000,000,000 instead of 1,000,000,000, but who the hell uses a billion to describe 1,000,000?
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Old 30th January 2019, 01:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I know the Brits have this weird thing where a billion is equal to 1,000,000,000,000 instead of 1,000,000,000, but who the hell uses a billion to describe 1,000,000?
We don't use 'billion' in either wrong sense. I think RR just used the wrong prefix.

I went for the UK, but only because I'm British. It's personal.
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Old 30th January 2019, 02:03 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
ETA: I started this thread because every time I think that the current state of American politics couldn't get much worse, I just open the Brexit thread and find out that the UK is even worse off right now.
That's just the media. Nothing has changed. Nobody is panicking, the economy is growing, employment is at a record high, things are great. I've literally not heard BREXIT even mentioned for years outside of the TV*.

Venezuela, on the other hand, is a failed state, bodies lie in the streets, the country is ravaged by violence and drugs, the government has collapsed, the population has a choice of starve or leave or be murdered, the schools are shut down, healthcare no longer exists and disease is epidemic.


* Not quite true, my father recently said that the airport drone shutdowns were practice-runs for what will happen after BREXIT. He's getting old.
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Old 30th January 2019, 02:08 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
That's just the media. Nothing has changed. Nobody is panicking, the economy is growing, employment is at a record high, things are great.
Are you talking about in the US, or in the UK?

Or both?
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Old 30th January 2019, 02:15 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Are you talking about in the US, or in the UK?

Or both?
The UK, although I suspect the US hasn't yet reached Venezuelan depths either.
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Old 30th January 2019, 02:19 PM   #14
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Planet X is actually the worst.
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Old 30th January 2019, 03:56 PM   #15
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List not nearly big enough. I voted for Venezuela, though.
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Old 30th January 2019, 03:58 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
I reckon Turkey should get a look in there as well, with their Prez seeming intent on becoming emperor for life.
And the omission of Russia under Czar Vladimir the First was surprising.
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Old 30th January 2019, 04:18 PM   #17
crescent
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
List not nearly big enough. I voted for Venezuela, though.
Or the list is too big. In my head, I was thinking of nations whose political situations have deteriorated. Russian politics don't seem much worse than normal for Russian standards.

I should have just listed the U.S. and U.K., and they seem to be the contenders for moving the most from relative stability and sanity into relative political chaos.

I've got to think these things through better before posting.
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Old 30th January 2019, 08:03 PM   #18
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Australia. Just that we don't give a ****. In fact we have never given a ****.
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Old 30th January 2019, 08:59 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Australia. Just that we don't give a ****. In fact we have never given a ****.
Australia barely rates a mention in this thread. Sure, our government is the only major developed nation actively increasing its investment in coal-fired power. Sure, the government is plagued by desertion and disillusionment and will crash and burn so hard in the next election it'll be possible to read on the moon by the light of the fire. Sure, the government defines "employment" as "1 or more hours per week" and is therefore able to post record low unemployment figures. But at least we have a government. So, hey.
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Old 30th January 2019, 09:01 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Australia barely rates a mention in this thread. Sure, our government is the only major developed nation actively increasing its investment in coal-fired power. Sure, the government is plagued by desertion and disillusionment and will crash and burn so hard in the next election it'll be possible to read on the moon by the light of the fire. Sure, the government defines "employment" as "1 or more hours per week" and is therefore able to post record low unemployment figures. But at least we have a government. So, hey.
We have a government?? I see no evidence of that...

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Old 30th January 2019, 09:05 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
We have a government?? I see no evidence of that...

Yeah, I work for them. Indirectly, as a contractor.
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Old 30th January 2019, 09:45 PM   #22
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I'm thinking Libya or Yemen, but I really don't have enough info on all the various extreme hellholes currently hosting the worst mass suffering in all its various forms to say for sure.
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Old 30th January 2019, 09:53 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Sure, the government defines "employment" as "1 or more hours per week" and is therefore able to post record low unemployment figures. But at least we have a government. So, hey.
Same in the US.

Also, if anyone has given up on finding a real job and sells weed, that counts as "not unemployed" (aka, "employed") too.

The homeless who panhandle to keep from starving count as "not employed" ("employed") as well.

Sigh.
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Old 30th January 2019, 09:54 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Australia barely rates a mention in this thread. Sure, our government is the only major developed nation actively increasing its investment in coal-fired power. Sure, the government is plagued by desertion and disillusionment and will crash and burn so hard in the next election it'll be possible to read on the moon by the light of the fire. Sure, the government defines "employment" as "1 or more hours per week" and is therefore able to post record low unemployment figures. But at least we have a government. So, hey.
The Lucky Country. Without even meaning to do it we get by due to various factors we just take for granted.
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Old 30th January 2019, 10:06 PM   #25
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Syria and Somalia because they are failed states.
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Old 30th January 2019, 10:23 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
The Lucky Country. Without even meaning to do it we get by due to various factors we just take for granted.
Largely, our mining industry.
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Old 30th January 2019, 10:46 PM   #27
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India
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Old 30th January 2019, 10:59 PM   #28
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Russia.
Putin is losing popularity, failing to deliver the prosperity he promised. So the only path now is more oppression.
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Old 30th January 2019, 11:17 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
In my head, I was thinking of nations whose political situations have deteriorated.
Well then you might as well remove Belgium too, we regularly overthrow our government, like once a decade or so. If anything this particular government took a long time to fall, it was inches away from falling just a few months after it started in 2014 due to massive strikes, and again in 2016 due to another strike wave, before finally falling last month.
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Old 31st January 2019, 01:02 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Largely, our mining industry.

Currently. The reason for that is the previous mining boom made the dollar so high it killed off manufacturing. Australia used to have a more diversified economy.
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:11 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Russia.
Putin is losing popularity, failing to deliver the prosperity he promised. So the only path now is more oppression.
You'd rather be in Saudi Arabia than Russia?
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:17 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Well then you might as well remove Belgium too, we regularly overthrow our government, like once a decade or so. If anything this particular government took a long time to fall, it was inches away from falling just a few months after it started in 2014 due to massive strikes, and again in 2016 due to another strike wave, before finally falling last month.
Your gov was...down... in 2010, too, right? When that libertarian British guy called Belgium "pretty much a non-country" in the European Parliament?
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Old 31st January 2019, 04:08 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
You'd rather be in Saudi Arabia than Russia?
It's a tough choice, but Saudi Arabia gets my vote too.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ndparents.html
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Old 31st January 2019, 04:53 AM   #34
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
You'd rather be in Saudi Arabia than Russia?
Absolutely.
Just compare living standards (for someone like me, who isn't burdened with an extra X chromosome).
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Old 31st January 2019, 05:58 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
It's a tough choice, but Saudi Arabia gets my vote too.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ndparents.html
What does that link have to do with overall living conditions in Russia?

Do you think this is telling about conditions in the US?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94713&page=1

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Old 31st January 2019, 06:00 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Absolutely.
Just compare living standards (for someone like me, who isn't burdened with an extra X chromosome).
What about Yemen vs Russia?

https://reliefweb.int/report/yemen/y...eatened-famine

Quote:
Yemen is the worst humanitarian disaster in contemporary history. The armed conflict has hit an already poor country hard. The slowdown in economic activity,—which has led to a considerable decline in the value of the currency—the collapse of State institutions, the bureaucracy of the parties to the conflict— several of whom have delayed projects for several months— are just some of the reasons why the humanitarian situation continues to deteriorate despite the enormous efforts of humanitarian organizations. The United Nations estimates in its “Overview of Humanitarian Needs for 2019” that more than 24 million people will require humanitarian assistance. This represents 80% of the population and a 10% increase compared to 2018.

The most important needs are in the area of food security. According to a study, more than 15 million people are threatened by famine
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Last edited by kellyb; 31st January 2019 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 31st January 2019, 06:04 AM   #37
The Great Zaganza
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Yeah, Yemen is really, really bad, definitely worse than Russia.
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Old 31st January 2019, 01:48 PM   #38
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North Korea deserves a mention. I've been waiting for the regime to crumble there for decades.
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Old 31st January 2019, 01:51 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Yeah, like I said about once a decade or so. We have a tradition of class struggle you know
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Old 31st January 2019, 01:56 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Unfortunate tolerance of antisemitism amongst the protesters.
I'd hardly call this tolerance (and there are plenty, plenty more where that came from). Perhaps it would be better not to get one's information from corporate publications with a vested interest in discrediting such movements.
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