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Old 30th January 2019, 01:53 PM   #1
Red Baron Farms
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antifa attacks Marines

DC ‘antifa leader’ is third charged in Marine attack in Philadelphia
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Old 30th January 2019, 02:25 PM   #2
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Not unexpected in a country with high political tension.
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Old 30th January 2019, 02:32 PM   #3
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His moustache, like him, is skewed to the left.
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Old 30th January 2019, 04:36 PM   #4
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It's more or less inevitable than when disorganized, violent zealots are on a crusade, innocent parties are going to pay a price.

Even here in ISF threads, it starts with punching only nazis. Flesh it out a little and whaddya know, ordinary bigots are among the punchables. Flesh it out a little more, and innocent bystanders should have known better than to be in the vicinity.
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Old 30th January 2019, 05:07 PM   #5
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Why is this in USA Politics? And can a brother get a credible news source?
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Old 30th January 2019, 05:43 PM   #6
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Is this yet another attempt to equate Antifa with the Democratic Party?
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Old 30th January 2019, 05:53 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
It's more or less inevitable than when disorganized, violent zealots are on a crusade, innocent parties are going to pay a price.

Even here in ISF threads, it starts with punching only nazis. Flesh it out a little and whaddya know, ordinary bigots are among the punchables. Flesh it out a little more, and innocent bystanders should have known better than to be in the vicinity.
Problem is with zealots,of any stripe, anybody who disagrees with them is Evil.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:21 PM   #8
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And all reportage on this from Fox News and The Daily Caller. Both reputable organs of unbiased record.
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Old 30th January 2019, 09:20 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
And all reportage on this from Fox News and The Daily Caller. Both reputable organs of unbiased record.
Yeah, even the original report is vague. First off, the original report claims there were multiple reservists, now down to I think just 2? The alleged attackers may have certainly been involved with antifa stuff, but they sure looked out of uniform here. And calling the Marines 'wetbacks' and spics' does not sound like antifa at all. Sounds more like a bunch of punks who picked a fight, rather than a political clash. Like the other antifa shooting thread, not convinced this has anything to do with antifa as a political movement. Rather, it shows what some antifa nitwits do with their free time.

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/...-people-rally/
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Old 30th January 2019, 09:40 PM   #10
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As always, it's the comments that tell the true story...

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SpinMeNot
I'm conservative and don't like to be labeled by our fringe radicals.
Please refrain from flaming the fires of divisiveness by calling this "liberal" or leftist, these are fringe radicals.

ReaganTheMan
liberal, leftist, and fringe radicals are all synonymous terms.
...or to put it a little more bluntly, the only good liberal is a dead liberal.
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Old 30th January 2019, 11:37 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yeah, even the original report is vague. First off, the original report claims there were multiple reservists, now down to I think just 2? The alleged attackers may have certainly been involved with antifa stuff, but they sure looked out of uniform here. And calling the Marines 'wetbacks' and spics' does not sound like antifa at all. Sounds more like a bunch of punks who picked a fight, rather than a political clash. Like the other antifa shooting thread, not convinced this has anything to do with antifa as a political movement. Rather, it shows what some antifa nitwits do with their free time.

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/...-people-rally/
According to the "official" video (embedded in the report), they certainly didn't look like they were taking part in any rally of any kind. They didn't look like Antifa, didn't behave like Antifa, carried no signs, shouted no slogans, did not march.

In fact they looked to be constantly observing something interesting on the other side of the street but just basically hanging around chatting and laughing. If what they were watching was indeed the rally held that day, then they were observers, not participants.

I noted also the girl behind them surreptitiously taking photos with a biggish lens, both of them and whatever they were watching. Why?

So these guys then attacked a pair of Hispanic looking guys who wandered by with cries of "wetbacks" and "spics", unaware they were Marine recruits not in uniform. Uh, a racist beat-down is the siren call of the alt-right, is it not?

So up to that point, it looks to be nothing but a typical thug alt-right kick-fest at some anti-right rally by some guys looking for a "fun time".

But alas for the News guys, the guys picked on were Marines...good guys in their eyes. Can't be hurting the military, now! Looks bad on social media! So how can Fox and Daily Caller make it all better? Easy! Try to make it look like it was Antifa did the beat-down. Lie. A lot. Say it was Antifa people from the rally roaming the streets with blood-lust in their eyes! RAAAAGH!

...sorry, but I don't believe one single word of what was reported by those sources. They have a reputation for serial lying already. So I would be willing to say that most of this was complete and utter drivel, so far from the truth it has long since stretched credibility beyond breaking point. The beat-down happened, sure. I hope the jarheads are OK. But it just did not happen as reported.
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Old 31st January 2019, 01:17 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
According to the "official" video (embedded in the report), they certainly didn't look like they were taking part in any rally of any kind. They didn't look like Antifa, didn't behave like Antifa, carried no signs, shouted no slogans, did not march.

In fact they looked to be constantly observing something interesting on the other side of the street but just basically hanging around chatting and laughing. If what they were watching was indeed the rally held that day, then they were observers, not participants.

I noted also the girl behind them surreptitiously taking photos with a biggish lens, both of them and whatever they were watching. Why?

So these guys then attacked a pair of Hispanic looking guys who wandered by with cries of "wetbacks" and "spics", unaware they were Marine recruits not in uniform. Uh, a racist beat-down is the siren call of the alt-right, is it not?

So up to that point, it looks to be nothing but a typical thug alt-right kick-fest at some anti-right rally by some guys looking for a "fun time".

But alas for the News guys, the guys picked on were Marines...good guys in their eyes. Can't be hurting the military, now! Looks bad on social media! So how can Fox and Daily Caller make it all better? Easy! Try to make it look like it was Antifa did the beat-down. Lie. A lot. Say it was Antifa people from the rally roaming the streets with blood-lust in their eyes! RAAAAGH!
Wow, that was quite a fantasy that you concocted. But here is PhillyMag, which is actually considered a leftist website. I know, who would have thought there were liberals in Philadelphia?

Quote:
D.C. “Antifa Leader” Is Third Man Charged in Marine Attack in Philadelphia
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Old 31st January 2019, 01:15 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
But here is PhillyMag, which is actually considered a leftist website. I know, who would have thought there were liberals in Philadelphia?
And leftist = liberal = fringe radical = Communist!

Quote:
Alcoff has had a long history of protest. The below video captures him in the mid-2000s saying “I’m a Communist, ************” before spitting at the person recording him.

Quote:
Torres was reading online stories about the attacks when he came upon an article on the Tucker Carlson-founded Daily Caller website that connected Keenan to Alcoff.

That article called Alcoff “D.C.’s radical antifa leader … who’s advocated for violence and for the overthrow of the government.”
So you see, even though it was only quoting from an article in a rabidly conservative news and opinion website which has a reputation for false allegations, this is still corroborating evidence from a 'leftist' website that Alcoff is "D.C.’s radical antifa leader".
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:03 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Not unexpected in a country with high political tension.
But totally unexpected in a country where the left does not promote or engage in political violence.
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:38 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
But totally unexpected in a country where the left does not promote or engage in political violence.
Before you know it, the left might be shooting up churches.
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Old 31st January 2019, 02:40 PM   #16
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Philadelphia magazine is the not exactly “leftist”.its primarily fashion and interviews with local celebrities. Some good stuff now and then ( their article and interview with Paul Offit was quite good), and Best of Philly is annual fun (my store even won that once), but the aim is mostly at Bryn Mawr semi-urbanites.
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Old 31st January 2019, 03:19 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Before you know it, the left might be shooting up churches.
There's also these statistics.

Quote:
On Wednesday, the Anti-Defamation League released a report finding that attackers with ties to right-wing extremist movements killed at least 50 people in 2018. That was close to the total number of Americans killed by domestic extremists, meaning that the far right had an almost absolute monopoly on lethal terrorism in the United States last year. That monopoly would be total if, in one case, the perpetrator had not “switched from white supremacist to radical Islamist beliefs prior to committing the murder.”

The number of fatalities is 35 percent higher than the previous year, and it marks the fourth-deadliest year for such attacks since 1970. In fact, according to the ADL, white supremacists are responsible for the majority of such attacks “almost every year.” The 2018 attacks include the one at Pittsburgh’s Tree of Life synagogue by a man who blamed Jews for the migrant caravan, the mass shooting at a yoga studio by an “incel” obsessed with interracial dating, and the school massacre in Parkland, Florida, carried out by a student who wished that “all the Jews were dead.”

From 2009 through 2018, right-wing extremists accounted for 73 percent of such killings, according to the ADL, compared with 23 percent for Islamists and 3 percent for left-wing extremists. In other words, most terrorist attacks in the United States, and most deaths from terrorist attacks, are caused by white extremists. But they do not cause the sort of nationwide panic that helped Trump win the 2016 election and helped the GOP expand its Senate majority in the midterms.

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Old 31st January 2019, 03:24 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Good point.

I don't want to imply that this makes the 'punching' happiness is acceptable, but that the 'violence tolerated by the left' isn't within even an order of magnitude of that on the right. It's a laughable false equivalency.
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Old 31st January 2019, 06:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Wow, that was quite a fantasy that you concocted. But here is PhillyMag, which is actually considered a leftist website. I know, who would have thought there were liberals in Philadelphia?
"Antifa Leader" in quotes makes it so? Can't spot the irony there?

Did you watch the video? See the culprits marching in the "leftist" rally? See them carrying signs? Or any evidence whatever they were Antifa? No? Me neither.
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Last edited by Norman Alexander; 31st January 2019 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 31st January 2019, 06:31 PM   #20
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Interesting that right-wing nutcase Bannon of Breitbart fame and latterly an advisor to your president has also claimed to be a Communist at some points in time. For the lulz, obviously.
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Old 31st January 2019, 06:52 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Before you know it, the left might be shooting up churches.
Or baseball games.
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Old 31st January 2019, 08:36 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Or baseball games.
Or synagogues.
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 31st January 2019, 08:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Or baseball games.
Or using weaponized cars to run down protesters.
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 31st January 2019, 08:38 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Or baseball games.
Or yoga studios.
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 31st January 2019, 08:40 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Or baseball games.
Or plot to blowup a Muslim community in upstate New York.



I'll stop because the mods have no sense of humor, but if you wish to continue playing this game, there are more, and far more of the attacks especially the more deadly ones come from the right. Stop running interference for them.
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 31st January 2019, 08:57 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Or plot to blowup a Muslim community in upstate New York.

I'll stop because the mods have no sense of humor, but if you wish to continue playing this game, there are more, and far more of the attacks especially the more deadly ones come from the right. Stop running interference for them.
Responding to a derail draws a furious derail by a “skeptic” with a threat to derail more. Don’t make FMW falllaciously derail the **** out of this thread folks, I think he is super serious about fallacies.

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Old 31st January 2019, 09:10 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Or baseball games.
Or stab people on trains.
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Old 31st January 2019, 09:12 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Or baseball games.
Or a Kroger.
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Old 31st January 2019, 09:13 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Or baseball games.
Or a Sikh temple.
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Old 1st February 2019, 01:40 AM   #30
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or send bombs to political rivals while being so inept they can't even build them properly.


Sorry, did I do it right?
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Old 1st February 2019, 06:17 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Responding to a derail draws a furious derail by a “skeptic” with a threat to derail more. Don’t make FMW falllaciously derail the **** out of this thread folks, I think he is super serious about fallacies.

Have you no empathy, man! We're here as Mercy Posters. The OP is hellbent on finding something to demonize Antifa and I thought another failed thread might be too much to bear so we're trying to boost this so it gets past Page 1.

We've learned how delicate conservative sensitivities are of late and want to make a welcoming environment. So far, we have "some Antifa apparently have personal lives and personal problems" and some Antifa apparently sometimes do some bad things. Alas, the worst anyone's got is "But they punched poor Richard Spencer in the face, and many people get concerned about that but have trouble expressing ourselves because someone invariably posts the video and we can stop chuckling long enough to muster the indignation.

But we thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule of race-baiting and name-calling. Hey, I just realized... those are the first two item on Trump's daily schedule.
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 1st February 2019, 11:05 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Or baseball games.
I did forget about that one. It is so rare for violence from the left like that, apart from PETA and ELF crazies that have been marginalized politically by the left and not coddled like the violent types on the right. Fair point that there is left-wing violence still but...

Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Good point.

I don't want to imply that this makes the 'punching' happiness is acceptable, but that the 'violence tolerated by the left' isn't within even an order of magnitude of that on the right. It's a laughable false equivalency.
... it remains a laughable false equivalency. 'Punch a Nazi' just isn't in the same league as 'Gas the Jews'.
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Old 1st February 2019, 11:01 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Have you no empathy, man! We're here as Mercy Posters. foolz The OP is hellbent on finding something to demonize iintelligent commentary about Antifa and I thought another failed thread might be too much to bear so we're trying to boost this so it gets past Page 1.
fixed that for you
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Old 1st February 2019, 11:47 PM   #34
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
fixed that for you
Very badly, IMHO.

You have failed abjectly to make it about Antifa in any way, shape or form. Evidence is that it is completely some other group. They were either a bunch of ne'er-do-wells hanging out for a fight, or a bunch of ultra-thick right-wing thugs who picked on the wrong victims (i.e. much the same thing).
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Old 2nd February 2019, 12:13 AM   #35
Foolmewunz
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
fixed that for you
Durr Hurr! Durr Hurr!

The Geneva Convention prohibits me from having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 02:27 PM   #36
Red Baron Farms
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Very badly, IMHO.

You have failed abjectly to make it about Antifa in any way, shape or form. Evidence is that it is completely some other group. They were either a bunch of ne'er-do-wells hanging out for a fight, or a bunch of ultra-thick right-wing thugs who picked on the wrong victims (i.e. much the same thing).
I didn't make it about anything. I posted a news story and waited for an intellegent discussion .. and waited ... and waited ... and still waiting.

Your mistake was in thinking I posted this with any preconceived ideas at all.

I am not a politician.
I am not antifa
I am not fa

Your conclusion should be that I am not very familiar with this heated controversy that seems to be increasingly violent.

I am a bit anti-politician. So I am not very trusting of any politically biased mainstream media, whether left or right.

Be that as it may, I posted one, and had it immediately moved without discussion. So I posted another, and although not moved, still no intelligent discussion. Straw men and ad hominems for even having the temerity to try and learn about what's going on. But nothing relaxed and researched and illuminating. nada zip zero

So my conclusion so far at least can only be that whatever trollish sickness has infiltrated society causing the increased agro behavior, has somehow managed to infiltrate my beloved skeptic site as well.

Damn shame too.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 02:42 PM   #37
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JoeMorgue is rolling in his bed right about now.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 02:51 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
JoeMorgue is rolling in his bed right about now.
I don't need to be your friend to follow a discussion... at least I never did base my politics on that before.

But maybe you are right about that. Maybe it is all about tribalism and who is your friends, and hating outsiders...simply monkey territorial behavior.

But you can be sure, this was not always the way it went down here at ISF.

Oh sure caustic cheeky remarks were said, but always in response to stupidity and in a way mocking that stupidity.

Never saw this level of nonsense right out the gate before.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 02:54 PM   #39
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Ok. What intelligent discussion would you like?

Nothing is really known about the incident. Something vague about Marines getting jumped. Alleged attackers called them wetbacks and spics, which is inconsistent with antifa although the suspects are affiliated with antifa groups. The suspects were not on antifa garb, or carrying antifa paraphernalia, or even at the demonstration.

To some of us, sounds like the suspects were punks looking for a fight and not actually acting on behalf of antifa objectives.

So. What do you got?
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Old 2nd February 2019, 08:57 PM   #40
Red Baron Farms
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Ok. What intelligent discussion would you like?

Nothing is really known about the incident. Something vague about Marines getting jumped. Alleged attackers called them wetbacks and spics, which is inconsistent with antifa although the suspects are affiliated with antifa groups. The suspects were not on antifa garb, or carrying antifa paraphernalia, or even at the demonstration.

To some of us, sounds like the suspects were punks looking for a fight and not actually acting on behalf of antifa objectives.

So. What do you got?
I thought I made it clear. I am no expert on antifa and I posted it here to learn from people who actually know about it. Since you don't know about it and admitted your ignorance on the subject, I don't expect anything at all from you either. At least you tried by explaining why your cynicism. Thanks for that. But cynicism is not skepticism.

I was hoping someone at ISF did know more, and would start an illuminating conversation.
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