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Tags racism charges , racism incidents , Ralph Northam , Virginia politics

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Old 2nd February 2019, 02:05 PM   #161
Stacko
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I don't buy that either.

If somebody ever produces my yearbook page from any school I attended and it contains a photo of two people wearing blackface and a Klan robe, I would not hesitate even a moment to assert with complete confidence that the photo must be erroneously placed and could not possibly depict me, because I have never ever worn blackface or a Klan robe, so such a photo of me could not be physically possible - no question, end of story. There's really no room for waffling about this, unless Northam knows he has appeared in either costume at some point and is simply unsure whether this particular photograph is a depiction of himself at such a time.
You also wouldn't have to result to the defense of, "I wore blackface but not in that racist photo," and then proceed to give protips on the use of shoe polish for blackface and brag about a dancing contest you won while in blackface. This is some amazing self immolation.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 02:20 PM   #162
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I'm not particularly outraged. It's good enough for me if politicians can recognize and be sorry for their actions in high school.

I defend Republicans when their non-political history is brought up too for that matter.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 02:25 PM   #163
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I can state factually that racism was still a huge thing in the South in the early 80s. I went to school in Nashville and being from NJ, the southern gentleman in charge of housing thought it was a good idea for me to be housed with a black man for being a yankee. turned out he was one of the coolest black guys I ever met. Most of the blacks were given rooms in what most would consider the 'basement'.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 02:29 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
These statues were not erected in 1868 by tearful survivors as memorials to the Civil War dead. They were mostly put up during the massive 20th century resistance to desegregation and the civil rights movement. They had a specific political intent, like a swastika, and that's why they are offensive and should be demolished. The glorification of the Confederacy is pure fraud.



And where would those be? No one has ever proven any significant voter fraud. And just moving without updating your address is not fraud.



The term "racist" is thrown around a lot because racism is endemic to our society. When cops shoot unarmed black kids out of fear that they are "probably" dangerous, or when they arrest black people when they might have given a warning to whites, or when voter suppression efforts explicitly target black voters and black neighborhoods, when proud white nationalists march in Charlottesville, and when a President gets elected by claiming that migrants are rapists and murderers and voters swallow it whole, there's plenty of racism to go around.
I don't know about elsewhere but our Jefferson Davis Historical (KY) site was proposed in 1907 and constructed around 1917-1922.

Los Angeles and several other places.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/...-462-counties/

Yes, the word "Racist" was also thrown around by Northam against his opponent Ed Gillespie for his stance against sanctuary cities.......While Northam was airbrushing his own Black running mate from campaign flyers. LMAO Oh my side hurts..................
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/...ie-gop-racist/

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Old 2nd February 2019, 02:55 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Regarding Confederate statues, you can't revise history to better suit your current views. It already happened so learn from it.
That answer, right there, is why you need to sit this one out. If you knew enough to participate in the discussion, you'ld know that these were put up either in the 1910s-20s, the nadir of race relations according to most historians, or during the 1960s as a protest against integration - in other words, they're white supremacy monuments, and nothing more.

Again, the GOP needs to clean up it's own act first, and until they do, it's a farce for them to say anything here.

Last edited by Mumbles; 2nd February 2019 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:07 PM   #166
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1) Yah, I've got no problem beginning with the assumption that a white dude who graduated from VMI is at least racist-adjacent until demonstrated otherwise.
2) Who the hell buys their medical school yearbook?
3) Who doesn't remember their Halloween costumes* and assume that photos of same are out there somewhere?
4) Who doesn't come clean about such things first* (like, before running for governor)?
5) Who reneges on an admission of guilt and apology with a non-sequitur?
6) Forget the racism, this is a dude with serious problems of judgment and an evidently poor understanding of how journalism and the internet work.

*Halloween 1988: I dressed as a cheesy Hollywood-version of a "headhunter". I chose this costume because a Hawaiian friend of mine (host of the party) wanted me to wear her authentic grass skirt. I tied a plastic bone in my hair and acted like an idiot for a few hours. Good party. With the blessing, nay the encouragement of an indigenous Hawaiian, I went to a party – and there are photos – and did the cultural appropriation thing. Now despite the backstory, were I to run for public office, I'd be a fool to just hope I would never have to explain those photos. I'd address this head-on, describe what I've learned in the 30 years since, etc. But to just hope that this stuff never surfaces is madness.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:16 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
1) Yah, I've got no problem beginning with the assumption that a white dude who graduated from VMI is at least racist-adjacent until demonstrated otherwise.
2) Who the hell buys their medical school yearbook?
3) Who doesn't remember their Halloween costumes* and assume that photos of same are out there somewhere?
4) Who doesn't come clean about such things first* (like, before running for governor)?
5) Who reneges on an admission of guilt and apology with a non-sequitur?
6) Forget the racism, this is a dude with serious problems of judgment and an evidently poor understanding of how journalism and the internet work.

*Halloween 1988: I dressed as a cheesy Hollywood-version of a "headhunter". I chose this costume because a Hawaiian friend of mine (host of the party) wanted me to wear her authentic grass skirt. I tied a plastic bone in my hair and acted like an idiot for a few hours. Good party. With the blessing, nay the encouragement of an indigenous Hawaiian, I went to a party – and there are photos – and did the cultural appropriation thing. Now despite the backstory, were I to run for public office, I'd be a fool to just hope I would never have to explain those photos. I'd address this head-on, describe what I've learned in the 30 years since, etc. But to just hope that this stuff never surfaces is madness.
Now this argument has some merit. If the Governor's mental abilities is in question, then all means, please step down. Trump should take that advice.

I honestly haven't reviewed the Governor's statements in total. (Which I should...But he's not my Governor) My big issue was that we were simply burning the man at the stake for a bad taste costume worn on Halloween 35 years ago in college. I find that ridiculous.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:17 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
1) Yah, I've got no problem beginning with the assumption that a white dude who graduated from VMI is at least racist-adjacent until demonstrated otherwise.
2) Who the hell buys their medical school yearbook?
3) Who doesn't remember their Halloween costumes* and assume that photos of same are out there somewhere?
4) Who doesn't come clean about such things first* (like, before running for governor)?
5) Who reneges on an admission of guilt and apology with a non-sequitur?
6) Forget the racism, this is a dude with serious problems of judgment and an evidently poor understanding of how journalism and the internet work.

*Halloween 1988: I dressed as a cheesy Hollywood-version of a "headhunter". I chose this costume because a Hawaiian friend of mine (host of the party) wanted me to wear her authentic grass skirt. I tied a plastic bone in my hair and acted like an idiot for a few hours. Good party. With the blessing, nay the encouragement of an indigenous Hawaiian, I went to a party – and there are photos – and did the cultural appropriation thing. Now despite the backstory, were I to run for public office, I'd be a fool to just hope I would never have to explain those photos. I'd address this head-on, describe what I've learned in the 30 years since, etc. But to just hope that this stuff never surfaces is madness.
How has nobody checked all these year books? They seem like a journalistic and opposition research goldmine.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:20 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Now this argument has some merit. If the Governor's mental abilities is in question, then all means, please step down. Trump should take that advice.



I honestly haven't reviewed the Governor's statements in total. (Which I should...But he's not my Governor) My big issue was that we were simply burning the man at the stake for a bad taste costume worn on Halloween 35 years ago in college. I find that ridiculous.
If I go out in blackface or a KKK costume today, could I blow it off thirty years from now?
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:24 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If I go out in blackface or a KKK costume today, could I blow it off thirty years from now?
Probably 30 years from now people will have chilled the hell out a bit. Hard to imagine things getting wound much tighter.

Last edited by shuttlt; 2nd February 2019 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:26 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If I go out in blackface or a KKK costume today, could I blow it off thirty years from now?
As long as you're Republican. They're not familiar with morals, only moralizing.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:34 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Probably 30 years from now people will have chilled the hell out a bit. Hard to imagine things getting wound much tighter.
History shows that people are capable of winding things a whole lot tighter. Look at the extremes of oppression the Soviet Union and its vassal states resorted to, in order to suppress Incorrect Thought.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:34 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If I go out in blackface or a KKK costume today, could I blow it off thirty years from now?
Maybe. Are you a College student pushing the borders of good taste just because.

One of my closest friends and I threw a Jim Jones party in college in the early 80s.. Complete with camo gear, dark sunglasses and Kool-aid spiked with pure grain alcohol. We carried AK47 squirt guns filled with the deadly punch. We took pictures of the people who attended as corpses laying side by side. Definitely one of the most tasteless things I have ever done But still was the greatest party I ever threw.

Should I today be kept from holding public office today 35 years later because I was grossly insensitive about mass suicide in college?
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:35 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
3 decades ago.
Would you be saying that if it was a Conservative Republican we are talking about it.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:37 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Republicans are absolutely giddy over this. They couldn't beat him in the campaign with their dirty tricks, and now it turns out he may have handed them an own goal instead.
Not exactly. Last time I looked, the lt.gov is a democrat.....
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:38 PM   #176
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Every other thread is about [contentious political topic] and gets derailed by arguments about racism. This thread is about racism and gets derailed by arguments about abortion. I can't decide whether that's funny or sad, so I'll split the difference and call it racist.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:40 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Would you be saying that if it was a Conservative Republican we are talking about it.
Maybe...But probably not. I would think "it figures". Have you ever seen pictures of the respective Republican and Democratic conventions? Notice any difference?

That's why it's not a fair comparison.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:41 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Every other thread is about [contentious political topic] and gets derailed by arguments about racism. This thread is about racism and gets derailed by arguments about abortion. I can't decide whether that's funny or sad, so I'll split the difference and call it racist.
Why do you hate women?
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:44 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
According to CNN, Northam now says it isn't him and he has no recollection of taking the photo. Because, of course.
That is a reversal worthy of Trump.
Northam's twisting and turning on this has turned me against him.
I have some sympathy for the idea to wreck a man's career because of something stupid he did when he was in college in unfair, and I have problems with the idea that what he did was unforgivable (the equating of Northiem's photo with Drunk Driving in partuclar is just plain asinine) but The poor way in which Northeim is handling this has conviced me he should go.
That and from a pragmatic point of view,he's toast.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:47 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Maybe...But probably not. I would think "it figures". Have you ever seen pictures of the respective Republican and Democratic conventions? Notice any difference?

That's why it's not a fair comparison.
What total crap. Tribalism at it's worst.
Frankly, this kind of crap is as stupid as the crap we see from the Trump supports.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:48 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
... Now despite the backstory, were I to run for public office, I'd be a fool to just hope I would never have to explain those photos. I'd address this head-on, describe what I've learned in the 30 years since, etc. But to just hope that this stuff never surfaces is madness.
Yeah, one reason Northam is taking deserved heat from Democrats is that he could have addressed this when he was campaigning on removing the Confederate statues. He could have said that regret over his previous insensitivity was why he was now campaigning to remove hurtful symbols. But he has to go now -- he has no credibility and he's politically bankrupt.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:54 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Every other thread is about [contentious political topic] and gets derailed by arguments about racism. This thread is about racism and gets derailed by arguments about abortion. I can't decide whether that's funny or sad, so I'll split the difference and call it racist.
And, sadly this thread has become a example of tribalism at it's worst. One guy just openly admitted he will judge people based not on individual circumstance, but on what tribe he belongs to.

Plenty of hypocrisy to go around on all sides here.

Yes, I have changed my mind about Northeim, but it's based on additional information (the VMI photo) the crappy way Northeim is handling this,and pure realism (the guy is toast;no way he can effectively govern;in the military ..and as a VMI grad he should know this....he would be removed from his postion simply because he could not longer effectively command,regardless of the circumstances leading to the situation).
BTW, I admit my forgetting about Doug Wilder being Governor. So the LT.Governor will be the second Afro American of the Old Dominion.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:55 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Yeah, one reason Northam is taking deserved heat from Democrats is that he could have addressed this when he was campaigning on removing the Confederate statues. He could have said that regret over his previous insensitivity was why he was now campaigning to remove hurtful symbols. But he has to go now -- he has no credibility and he's politically bankrupt.
And the piss poor way he is handling this since the story broke alone is enough to destroy his career.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

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Old 2nd February 2019, 03:56 PM   #184
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Ralph Northam is resigning. He just doesn’t know it yet. (Dana Milbank, WaPo)

Quote:
Ralph Northam is the former governor of Virginia. He just doesn’t know it yet.

His governorship ended, as a practical matter, on Friday night, when he acknowledged he was in a just-surfaced 1984 photograph from his medical school yearbook of one man in blackface and another in a Ku Klux Klan robe and hood.

The Democratic governor attempted weakly to apologize in written and video statements Friday, and then, bizarrely, attempted Saturday to retract his admission.

But his flailing doesn’t much matter, because he has been denounced and disowned by his fellow Democrats; his only path forward as governor is as pariah and laughingstock.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 04:02 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Yeah, after that press conference the guy is toast.
I had a lot of sympathy for the idea that to wreck a man;s career because of something stupid he did 30 year ago ,and not take how he had changed since iinto account is wrong but his behavior since the story broke ..and the nickname in the VMI year book.has convinced me he has to go.

He just quoted the VMI cadet creed...The same as that of the US Service Academies..."A Cadet Does Not Lie,Cheat or Steal,or tolerate those who do".
God, what a hypocrite.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 04:05 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I don't buy that either.

If somebody ever produces my yearbook page from any school I attended and it contains a photo of two people wearing blackface and a Klan robe, I would not hesitate even a moment to assert with complete confidence that the photo must be erroneously placed and could not possibly depict me, because I have never ever worn blackface or a Klan robe, so such a photo of me could not be physically possible - no question, end of story. There's really no room for waffling about this, unless Northam knows he has appeared in either costume at some point and is simply unsure whether this particular photograph is a depiction of himself at such a time.
That's what most of my local (white) friends would say:

reporter: "We have a picture of you in blackface."

them: "Huh? Blackfa - I've never done that!"

reporter "Well, then you're the one in the klan outfit?"

them "Klan...what are you even talking about right now, I've never done that, show me this photo."

But he's already said that he was in the photo, on video and in writing. The above is out. The other problem is that he was also Lt. Governor beginning in 2014, so he had plenty of time to get out in front of this, bring it up himself before an opponent tossed it out (seriously, did his opponent just not find this...or did he think that the photo would dilute the racist vote?), and say that he hoped to prove that the photo didn't represent who he was.

But he did neither. That's the problem.

Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
The thing about Michael Jackson is that he's distinct in terms of music, dance, and dress. There's no need to put on blackface to portray him at any age, just dress like him and you're good. Just like a black person that wants to dress as Superman, or Goku, or whoever has no need to cover their face in some white substance. Just dress like the character (and style your hair for Goku, of course), and you're good.

Last edited by Mumbles; 2nd February 2019 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 04:09 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
The thing about Michael Jackson is that he's distinct in terms of music, dance, and dress. There's no need to put on blackface to portray him at any age, just dress like him and you're good.
I think you mean "dress like him and you're...Bad."
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Old 2nd February 2019, 04:09 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I don't know about elsewhere but our Jefferson Davis Historical (KY) site was proposed in 1907 and constructed around 1917-1922.
....

Right. 60 years AFTER the end of the Civil War. And many are more recent.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...use-180968426/

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
.....
Los Angeles and several other places.

All that means is that people are moving without updating their address on the voter rolls or sometimes misunderstanding the rules. Where is the evidence that anybody is actually voting in the name of anybody else, or voting more than once? The examples of that are immeasurably small.
Quote:
Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the party election victories, about 120 people have been charged and 86 convicted as of last year.

Most of those charged have been Democrats, voting records show. Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules, a review of court records and interviews with prosecutors and defense lawyers show.

In Miami, an assistant United States attorney said many cases there involved what were apparently mistakes by immigrants, not fraud.
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/w...n/12fraud.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.7877aab604af

Quote:
Yes, the word "Racist" was also thrown around by Northam against his opponent Ed Gillespie for his stance against sanctuary cities.......While Northam was airbrushing his own Black running mate from campaign flyers. LMAO Oh my side hurts..................

Gillespie was/is a long-time political hustler who became a lying Trump acolyte. For starters:
Quote:
Despite all this or perhaps in part because of it, Gillespie released what became known as his “Kill, Rape, Oppress” television ads, the first of which shows what purports to be a hooded member of the MS-13 gang wielding a baseball bat in an abandoned building, as a narrator says:

Northam cast the deciding vote in favor of sanctuary cities that let illegal immigrants who commit crimes back on the street, increasing the threat of MS-13.

In fact, there are no sanctuary cities in Virginia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/02/o...-virginia.html

Last edited by Bob001; 2nd February 2019 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 04:13 PM   #189
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What total crap. Tribalism at it's worst.
Frankly, this kind of crap is as stupid as the crap we see from the Trump supports.
Really? This is about racism in my mind. One only need to see the diversity at the party conventions to understand my point.
One party is inclusive, one party is not. One party is for civil and individual rights and the other notoriously opposes them.

If this Governor was a member of the Republican party, it would reinforce the stereotype. I'm simply being honest about my own biases. I only hope that I would evaluate the whole picture and not make a snap conclusion.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 05:12 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Really? This is about racism in my mind. One only need to see the diversity at the party conventions to understand my point.
One party is inclusive, one party is not. One party is for civil and individual rights and the other notoriously opposes them.
If one party claims it's not racist and then one of its members has a past history of racist incidents exposed, then the reaction of that party to that member will show whether their claim is an honest one.

Democrats defending racists who happen to be Democrats are just as hypocritical as Republicans defending Russian entanglements when the conspirators happen to be Republicans. Whatever either party may say they stand for is irrelevant if their actions demonstrate the opposite.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 05:27 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
If one party claims it's not racist and then one of its members has a past history of racist incidents exposed, then the reaction of that party to that member will show whether their claim is an honest one.

Democrats defending racists who happen to be Democrats are just as hypocritical as Republicans defending Russian entanglements when the conspirators happen to be Republicans. Whatever either party may say they stand for is irrelevant if their actions demonstrate the opposite.
That's the question isn't it? Does this event that happened in his early 20s in college 35 years ago reflective of who the Governor has been since then and who he is now?

If the Governor is a racist, then I want him gone. If it was a poor taste costume wore in college and that is it, I'm inclined to say ancient history is irrelevant.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 05:30 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think you mean "dress like him and you're...Bad."
Who's bad?
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Old 2nd February 2019, 05:44 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Who's bad?
Sources say it's someone named "Shamone", but efforts to trace this individual have been unfruitful.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 05:45 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That's the question isn't it? Does this event that happened in his early 20s in college 35 years ago reflective of who the Governor has been since then and who he is now?

If the Governor is a racist, then I want him gone. If it was a poor taste costume wore in college and that is it, I'm inclined to say ancient history is irrelevant.
I just look around and see all the people who didn't do blackface in their twenties, on more than one occasion. There are a lot of such. Is the Virginia Democratic Party so hard up for candidates who haven't done stuff like that?
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Old 2nd February 2019, 05:47 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Who's bad?
I'm bad.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 05:51 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I just look around and see all the people who didn't do blackface in their twenties, on more than one occasion. There are a lot of such. Is the Virginia Democratic Party so hard up for candidates who haven't done stuff like that?
Yes there is. But is that the sum of an individual? That they didn't do something stupid when they were 20?
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Old 2nd February 2019, 05:55 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I just look around and see all the people who didn't do blackface in their twenties, on more than one occasion. There are a lot of such. Is the Virginia Democratic Party so hard up for candidates who haven't done stuff like that?
In fact, the Lt. Governor fits the bill perfectly - and he also made it clear that he wanted no part of the whole General Lee veneration.

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
If it was a poor taste costume wore in college and that is it, I'm inclined to say ancient history is irrelevant.
...to you. At a time when Dolt 45 is in the white house eagerly fighting against minority rights (not just nonwhite people, but also Muslims and LGBT people) and whipping up racial violence and hatred in his followers, people want leaders they can count on to stand strong against him. Northram arguably lost credibility when that photo first surface, and definitely has none at all now that he's backtracked and revealed that there were other times he was in blackface.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 05:58 PM   #198
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Old 2nd February 2019, 06:00 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Whip View Post
I can state factually that racism was still a huge thing in the South in the early 80s. I went to school in Nashville and being from NJ, the southern gentleman in charge of housing thought it was a good idea for me to be housed with a black man for being a yankee. turned out he was one of the coolest black guys I ever met. Most of the blacks were given rooms in what most would consider the 'basement'.
I went to college in Nashville in the early 70's. My next-door neighbor in the dorm, on the second floor, was black and a good enough friend that we swapped keys in case one of us needed to get in the other's room. We pledged the same fraternity and roomed together on band trips.

I do not doubt that what you say is true. Racism is STILL a big thing, but not everyone is guilty, and not only in the South.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 06:06 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
.

...to you. At a time when Dolt 45 is in the white house eagerly fighting against minority rights (not just nonwhite people, but also Muslims and LGBT people) and whipping up racial violence and hatred in his followers, people want leaders they can count on to stand strong against him. Northram arguably lost credibility when that photo first surface, and definitely has none at all now that he's backtracked and revealed that there were other times he was in blackface.

Yea to me. I don't speak for others. Maybe it's because I did my share of stupid things when I was 20 that I'm not in favor of stringing up others who did too.

But it certainly doesn't sound like he will survive this. If he has lost credibility with his constituents he should resign. But I'm not one of them.
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