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View Poll Results: Will you be watching tonight's SOTU
Yes, and applauding Trump. 3 3.95%
Yes, and shouting "You Lie!" 4 5.26%
Yes, and keeping an open mind. 2 2.63%
Not just no, but "Hell, No!" 56 73.68%
International member, it won't be on my TV 8 10.53%
On Planet X, it's Hillary giving the speech. 3 3.95%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 6th February 2019, 01:09 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Like all SOTUs, the summary could have been written in advance: platitudes, tired bullet points, and drivel. Except with Trump it's worse, because the drivel is on steroids, the sanctimony is on steroids, the lies and misrepresentations are abundant, and taking him seriously on any particular talking point is akin to taking jello seriously.

I literally think that you don't fully comprehend the definition of the word "literal".
You forgot delusional, that is the big difference, IMO.
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Old 6th February 2019, 01:12 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's been all over the news
What was the point of your comment, there? That I should've been aware of what someone else said?
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Old 6th February 2019, 01:32 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Do we have data about American opinion on Medicare for all? I'd like to test one of the reasons they give in the article.
70% approval overall: 85% among Democrats, 52% among Republicans

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-amer...ll-health-care

That was after a few years of successive polls gradually increasing toward that point.

Apparently Chris Matthews said on "Hardball" yesterday that it's really 56% overall, which would be a radical outlier to the general pattern which the one above fits, but I don't see a source for it other than "Hardball".
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Old 6th February 2019, 01:57 PM   #244
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I am beginning to wonder if TBD really believes the crap he says and if he is not just trolling us for the sake of trolling us.
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Old 6th February 2019, 01:58 PM   #245
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A poll on how a SOTU is received is forgotten within a few days. Totally useless ..as are many polls.
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:00 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am beginning to wonder if TBD really believes the crap he says and if he is not just trolling us for the sake of trolling us.
Both.
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:05 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am beginning to wonder if TBD really believes the crap he says and if he is not just trolling us for the sake of trolling us.
Of course he is. But it's like a dog chasing its own tail for fun ... it isn't much fun so the dog has to do it a lot.
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:46 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
The part of the orange utan blithering that was stressed here was the wall stuff.

Walls are effective and can work he said.

Sure, with proper staffing and such.
Then when sports came next I flipped to another channel airing a night vision video of a coyote with two big ladders helping a group of folks go over the wall at a leisurely pace. Two went south with the ladders and the rest north. Not sure where the guy with the camera went.
Tunnels are another basic technology well practiced along the border.
Building a tunnel is no easy task. They are usually dug deep and very long. They're made mainly by drug cartels primarily to sneak in large quantities of their product, not sneaking in families. They are well supported structurally and often have tracks/rails with carts on them to carry the product.

The more difficult it is to cross the more expensive it will be. The cartels aren't just going to let people use them for free. It already costs a lot for people to pay the smugglers just to get to the border. Now they're gonna need a tunnel access stamp.

Think of it like cargo. Which is more profitable for the cartels - 500 pounds of heroin or 500 pounds of very poor people?

Stepping over a border or climbing a dilapidated fence is much easier and a helluva lot cheaper. If people start relying mainly on tunnels then the number of people crossing will slow significantly. If.
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:57 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
What was the point of your comment, there? That I should've been aware of what someone else said?
No, stop being so defensive.

I meant that it was all over the news and there was a caveat.

There were no hidden or personal messages there.
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Old 6th February 2019, 03:15 PM   #250
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The man can't help foot-stamping when he has no control.
If you don't stop investigating me, I'll stop playing
Yeah, so?
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Old 6th February 2019, 03:47 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
... a coyote with two big ladders helping a group of folks go over the wall at a leisurely pace.
I hate to appear to defend Trump but - the walls/fences he is proposing are 30 feet (about 10 meters) tall. As tall as those highest diving boards in the Olympics. A ladder will get over that, but that would be pretty tall (and very frightening) ladder.

To me, it is not a matter of effectiveness. I wall would keep more people from crossing the land border. It is a matter of priorities - we have better things to spend the money on.
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:12 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
I hate to appear to defend Trump but - the walls/fences he is proposing are 30 feet (about 10 meters) tall. As tall as those highest diving boards in the Olympics. A ladder will get over that, but that would be pretty tall (and very frightening) ladder.
Yes, it might be quite frightening.

But you're dealing with people who have just covered a large amount of terrain (possibly through rather hot and dry weather conditions). Many are leaving war zones or other type of abuse. I figure most people will find that climbing a tall ladder after enduring so much is not a major problem.

(And this is assuming they actually bother going over a fence/wall. As has been pointed out, the majority of illegal immigrants are people who come to the U.S. legally and overstay their visas. Then you also have those who come through legal points of entry, or through tunnels, or over water.)
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:18 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Building a tunnel is no easy task. They are usually dug deep and very long. They're made mainly by drug cartels primarily to sneak in large quantities of their product, not sneaking in families.
...
The more difficult it is to cross the more expensive it will be. The cartels aren't just going to let people use them for free. It already costs a lot for people to pay the smugglers just to get to the border. Now they're gonna need a tunnel access stamp.

Think of it like cargo. Which is more profitable for the cartels - 500 pounds of heroin or 500 pounds of very poor people?
Why does it have to be "either or"? Even a busy tunnel used to smuggle drugs won't be in use 24/7... drug cartels could use them to bring their shipments in one day, then rent it out to people trying to get into the U.S. the next day.

Oh, and by the way, not all tunnels are long/well dug, etc. In fact, many people have managed to get into the U.S. through short tunnels (only a few feet long) dug by smugglers.

From: https://www.usnews.com/news/national...es-from-mexico
...376 people crossed beneath the barrier, most by traveling through seven tunnels – each only a few feet long – that were dug by smugglers.
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:35 PM   #254
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Tunnels as a primary entry method is unlikely. But if you take a job that uses one of those tunnels or know someone that has one it becomes an option.

It is known to happen and has been detected.

A new tunnel running into a unsuspected entry point would not be put in risk but an older one maybe, money is money to whomsoever controlled it.


The current state of wall is breached daily by brave and desperate men from places far worse than trumplandia. Sometimes with border patrol units within sight. I see the videos on the news here.
After that who can guess the success rate of those who disappear into the woodwork and those who get caught.

Sure, it's dumb to do and quite risky but each has his story of why it's better for him there than at home. Especially when Mexico has offered a chance for many to make a go of it here legally.

Until one is that desperate we cannot really see what they are thinking.
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:36 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Damn, our President killed it

Blow out poll numbers
In a related poll, 80% of the people who watched the Gary Glitter Christmas in Sodom and Gomorrah Special thought it was great.

People who plan to take two hours out of their daily lives to watch a speech are generally people who pre-approve the person making it.

But Rasmussen's quick! They improved his ratings by 6% before he even made the speech.
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:42 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay after watching a few highlights.

- Okay the moment where they sang "Happy Birthday" to the 81 year old Holocaust survivor was nice, all politics aside.

- The cheering Trump got from the (mostly from what I can gather Democrat) female Congresspeople when he noted the record high number of women in Congress was... conceptually nice. You have to take it as a moment separated from Trump and all the history and baggage that comes along with him but as a moment it was nice. And for one brief, flickering fraction of a moment Trump almost, almost had a human reaction to it.
Happy Birthday, of course, is low-hanging fruit. Cheap ploy that worked. (It's like beauty contestants saying their number one priority is world peace. Who's going to not wish a holocaust victim a happy birthday.) But it worked.

The Mean Girls were cheering for themselves. Maybe a snide "Thank You Trump!" for him helping so many to get elected but it was certainly no Trump policy that got them elected. He didn't sprinkle his MTFD(magical temporary feminism dust) over any female Republican candidates. He got The Opposition elected in record numbers.
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:08 PM   #257
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Wait... "mean girls" meant new female members of Congress? Where in the world did THAT come from? I've been wondering why somebody mentioned that movie here...
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Old 6th February 2019, 06:00 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
I hate to appear to defend Trump but - the walls/fences he is proposing are 30 feet (about 10 meters) tall. As tall as those highest diving boards in the Olympics. A ladder will get over that, but that would be pretty tall (and very frightening) ladder.

To me, it is not a matter of effectiveness. I wall would keep more people from crossing the land border. It is a matter of priorities - we have better things to spend the money on.
Our fortifications will never be stronger than the push forces causing people to leave where they are nor the pull factors causing them to come here. Until we have neighbors to the south who live where the rule of law is respected and there is some prospect for prosperity, that fall will never be scarier than staying at home.
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Old 6th February 2019, 06:33 PM   #259
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They're all liars (right wing and GOP) or they are willfully blind or they are just plain ignorant:

All they need to do to stop illegal immigration is enforce e-verify for employers the way they enforce it if you want a bank account. No legit, verifiable SSN, no job. No job, no reason to risk your life to get here.

Except the legit asylum seekers and they'd be fine if people weren't getting fear-mongering propaganda about them.
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Old 6th February 2019, 08:09 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Belz...
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Do you wanna guess which poster wrote the following about the Gillette advert?
Wasn't that me? It sounds like me. Gosh, is my voice really so nasal?

Quote:
Why is a preachy Gillette advert any more annoying than preachy posts by Belz and Joe Morgue?
Ok that's fair. Though accusing the population of an obscure forum of being partisan -- which, I note, is true -- isn't quite like accusing men in general of being rape enablers.

Quote:
It would seem to be personal taste/preference. Unlike you, though, I won't insinuate that you're only annoyed by the Gillette advert because you're a do-nothing who only posts opinions on an obscure forum on the periphery of the internet.
Hey, that wouldn't be far from the truth, actually.

Quote:
I don't have to justify my political activism to anyone.
I think what we're doing here is the exact opposite of political activism. It's political posturing.

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Old 6th February 2019, 08:51 PM   #261
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Back to the movies after this:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
That is not the Rule of so, and they have the internet on computers now where one can "live stream" things check it out.
The rule of so is whatever I say it is, no more and no less. Are you going to argue? Must I order you to punish yourself?
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Old 6th February 2019, 08:59 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
The rule of so is whatever I say it is, no more and no less. Are you going to argue? Must I order you to punish yourself?
Naw, bro, it has been defined repeatedly, and the fact y’all don’t understand it does not mean that it is undefined. Cool post otherwise tho.
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Old 6th February 2019, 10:11 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Well, it would have been had you, ya know, done that, which you didn't.

Well we have a vote for "wash your hands."

Thanks, scintillating


Another twitter nobody (with an addiction!) gets another twitter nobody to read my lips. Hilarity ensues. Or should it be Hillarity....?
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Old 7th February 2019, 01:06 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Naw, bro, it has been defined repeatedly, and the fact y’all don’t understand it does not mean that it is undefined. Cool post otherwise tho.
It has repeatedly been so defined, by you. Sorry, Mr. Dumpty, but Wonderland rules do not apply here.

So, since you're the best informed and most reasonable poster on these forums, I'm certain you'll ameliorate your behavior to add your voice to the consensus.
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Old 7th February 2019, 08:35 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
To me, it is not a matter of effectiveness. I wall would keep more people from crossing the land border. It is a matter of priorities - we have better things to spend the money on.

According to Trump, 500 million dollars over ten years is enough to combat cancer in children, but the wall requires 6 billion dollars now!
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Old 7th February 2019, 08:41 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
According to Trump, 500 million dollars over ten years is enough to combat cancer in children, but the wall requires 6 billion dollars now!
Perhaps the simple explanation for Trump's various business problems are that he doesn't know the difference between 'million' and 'billion'?
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Old 7th February 2019, 08:47 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Perhaps the simple explanation for Trump's various business problems are that he doesn't know the difference between 'million' and 'billion'?
That might explain a number of things, including his claim that his father gave him a small loan of a million dollars.
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Old 7th February 2019, 12:30 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
At a certain point "Oh we're just doing it for the catharsis" no longer rings true.
And it's debatable whether catharsis actually helps, anyway. Certainly the proliferation of Orange Man Bad rhetoric on this site over the past couple years suggests that far from helping people get over their irrational fears, the constant sharing actually serves to reinforce and reward those fears. It seems to feed a vicious cycle, rather than a healing process.
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