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Tags michael jackson , sex scandals

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Old 9th March 2019, 12:46 PM   #681
Pterodactyl
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
What evidence would you expect to see, that you haven't?
Forensic evidence, rape kit, confession, pedo porn, the usual stuff.

Again, I'm not saying he didn't do this stuff, I just think that an individual like Jackson has special propensity to be a mark for false accusation considering his unique combination of wealth and eccentric, childlike behavior.

Probably a pedo in some capacity, just haven't seen anything like a smoking gun. I might've missed it though, which is why Im asking.
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Old 9th March 2019, 01:00 PM   #682
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I'm not certain, but I seem to recall that at least one boy was able to describe Jackson's Johnson in a way that could only be done if he had actually seen it up close.
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Old 9th March 2019, 01:07 PM   #683
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I'm not certain, but I seem to recall that at least one boy was able to describe Jackson's Johnson in a way that could only be done if he had actually seen it up close.
Was it smoking though?

Heh. I seem to recall something similar now that you mention it. If true, that significantly increases the likelihood of these accusations being true, IMO.
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Old 9th March 2019, 01:47 PM   #684
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Yes. One boy described a - uniqueness - about Jackson's penis.
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Old 9th March 2019, 01:53 PM   #685
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Yes. One boy described a - uniqueness - about Jackson's penis.
I'd read that also. But I allow for the possibility that the investigative team could have provided leading questions generating that result.
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:06 PM   #686
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I'd read that also. But I allow for the possibility that the investigative team could have provided leading questions generating that result.

Perhaps. But at the time, I recall thinking of it as a smoking gun. Though one never seemed necessary. My confusion is about how obvious all of the signs were, and I over-estimated people I guess. He didn't need to hold up a sign saying 'I am a pedophile'. Apparently there are still fans who choose not to believe, and to me that's baffling.
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:23 PM   #687
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Yes. One boy described a - uniqueness - about Jackson's penis.
No, he claimed that Jackson's penis had markings consistent with his vitiligo, so could have just been a guess. He also said that Jackson was circumcised, when he wasn't.
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:28 PM   #688
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
No, he claimed that Jackson's penis had markings consistent with his vitiligo, so could have just been a guess. He also said that Jackson was circumcised, when he wasn't.
I stand corrected! Thanks, it has been awhile and I should have checked prior to my post.
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:33 PM   #689
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Here's a Google search that gives many sources on this question.

https://www.google.com/search?q=boy+...is&oq=boy+&aqs
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:40 PM   #690
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
That's just called getting older.
In reverse ,yes.
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Old 9th March 2019, 03:35 PM   #691
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
There were trials. Jackson got off two of them for technical reasons.
And by "technical reasons" you mean the jury acquitted him, right?
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Old 9th March 2019, 03:38 PM   #692
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Getting away with it because nobody dare report the abuse out of fear for their career puts you, in effect, '"above the law".

Small town and the chief of police is up to no good and you know it. Taking bribes, intimidating people for his own gain ... that kind of thing. Are you going to report him?
That's still not what "above the law" means. The best you can say is that these people didn't come to the attention of the law. Except Jackson of course because he was acquitted at trial.
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Old 9th March 2019, 03:58 PM   #693
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
And by "technical reasons" you mean the jury acquitted him, right?
He settled out of court in the first trial.
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Old 9th March 2019, 04:05 PM   #694
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
That's still not what "above the law" means. The best you can say is that these people didn't come to the attention of the law. Except Jackson of course because he was acquitted at trial.
How do you know they did not come to the attention of the law, but were ignored by the law?


That's what " being above the law " means..
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Old 9th March 2019, 04:56 PM   #695
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
He settled out of court in the first trial.
Yeah, that's not a technicality either.
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:00 PM   #696
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
How do you know they did not come to the attention of the law, but were ignored by the law?


That's what " being above the law " means..
If you have evidence of that please provide it, it would help your argument.
There are many reasons law enforcement decide not to investigate and/or prosecute though and none of them make one "above the law." Most of them mean you haven't done anything wrong.
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:25 PM   #697
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[quote=qayak;12627387]If you have evidence of that please provide it, it would help your argument.
There are many reasons law enforcement decide not to investigate and/or prosecute though and none of them make one "above the law." Most of them mean you haven't done anything wrong.[/QUOTE]

Unless you're MJ, that's where the "above the law" comes in.
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:41 PM   #698
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Yeah, that's not a technicality either.
It's not a jury acquittal.

And settling out of court over a criminal matter, as opposed to a civil one, is also very much an example of Jackson being "above the law". If a not rich/famous person offered their alleged sexual assault victim money to stop cooperating with a police investigation, that person would be charged with witness tampering.
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:48 PM   #699
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
If you have evidence of that please provide it, it would help your argument.
There are many reasons law enforcement decide not to investigate and/or prosecute though and none of them make one "above the law." Most of them mean you haven't done anything wrong.
We really need and example of what " above the law ' means to you, so we can know why we are wrong.
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Old 9th March 2019, 10:02 PM   #700
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Unless you're MJ, that's where the "above the law" comes in.
Except he was investigated and charged which means he is not above the law, he was acquitted.
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Old 9th March 2019, 10:14 PM   #701
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It's not a jury acquittal.
You're probably the only person here who thought it was.

Quote:
And settling out of court over a criminal matter, as opposed to a civil one, is also very much an example of Jackson being "above the law". If a not rich/famous person offered their alleged sexual assault victim money to stop cooperating with a police investigation, that person would be charged with witness tampering.
The settlement was not a criminal matter, it was a civil matter. The father of the alleged victim instigated the financial settlement.
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Old 9th March 2019, 10:18 PM   #702
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
We really need and example of what " above the law ' means to you, so we can know why we are wrong.
It means that you are "exempt from the laws that apply to everyone else."

MJ was, in fact, investigated and charged under the same laws as everyone else is investigated and charged under. He was not above the law.
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Old 10th March 2019, 12:04 AM   #703
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
There were trials. Jackson got off two of them for technical reasons.
* By "technical reasons" you mean that in the first case, the California police spent $2 million investigating Jackson and then declined to press charges. The boy's mother did not believe her son had been molested. The boy's father, who was later found to be nearly 70 thousand dollars behind on childcare payments chose to pursue a civil suit. The boy himself (Jordan Chandler) was found to have been on psychoactive drugs around the time of his own testimony to the authorities; administered by his father for a dental procedure.

* In the second case (People v. Michael Jackson in 2004-5 based on claims made by Gavin Arvizo), Jackson WAS in fact acquitted of all charges.

* I'm less familiar with the Wade Robson lawsuit / allegations.

All this at a time when tabloids would pay tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars for mere pictures of celebrities. Which I presume they still do.

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Old 10th March 2019, 01:13 AM   #704
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
That's still not what "above the law" means. The best you can say is that these people didn't come to the attention of the law. Except Jackson of course because he was acquitted at trial.
"Above the law" means to be so powerful or important that the authorities turn a blind eye to your criminal behaviour or pull strings on your behalf, or your victims daren't take official action.

In the Hollywood environment Harvey Weinstein was "above the law", though no more. Jimmy Saville was similarly "above the law". The behaviour of both was known, but few dared complain. Such complaints as there were were swept under the carpet.

It doesn't mean what you claim just above, at least not in everyday parlance. In fact the only people that match your description would be dictators who are able to pass laws specific to themselves.
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Old 10th March 2019, 05:21 AM   #705
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It's not a jury acquittal.



And settling out of court over a criminal matter, as opposed to a civil one, is also very much an example of Jackson being "above the law". If a not rich/famous person offered their alleged sexual assault victim money to stop cooperating with a police investigation, that person would be charged with witness tampering.
How can someone settle a criminal charge out of court?
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Old 10th March 2019, 05:25 AM   #706
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Except he was investigated and charged which means he is not above the law, he was acquitted.
On that one particular charge. How you seem to be rather pedanticly wanting to use it no one outside fiction has ever been above the law.
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Old 10th March 2019, 07:40 AM   #707
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
On that one particular charge. How you seem to be rather pedanticly wanting to use it no one outside fiction has ever been above the law.
Does the phrase 'above the law' mean 'went through the legal system but the outcome wasn't what I think it should have been', or does it mean 'didn't have to go through the legal system because of their power in society'? I agree those definitions are not interchangeable, and some here are using the former while others are using the latter.
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Old 10th March 2019, 08:12 AM   #708
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
....

The settlement was not a criminal matter, it was a civil matter. The father of the alleged victim instigated the financial settlement.
How did that result in criminal charges being dismissed?
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Old 10th March 2019, 11:24 AM   #709
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
* By "technical reasons" you mean that in the first case, the California police spent $2 million investigating Jackson and then declined to press charges. The boy's mother did not believe her son had been molested. The boy's father, who was later found to be nearly 70 thousand dollars behind on childcare payments chose to pursue a civil suit. The boy himself (Jordan Chandler) was found to have been on psychoactive drugs around the time of his own testimony to the authorities; administered by his father for a dental procedure.

* In the second case (People v. Michael Jackson in 2004-5 based on claims made by Gavin Arvizo), Jackson WAS in fact acquitted of all charges.

* I'm less familiar with the Wade Robson lawsuit / allegations.

All this at a time when tabloids would pay tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars for mere pictures of celebrities. Which I presume they still do.
You might want to watch the show.
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Old 10th March 2019, 12:15 PM   #710
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I've never been particularly interested in MJ's music catalog, being more of a 60s and 70s rock and roll fan, but in view of the debate which this new film seems to have inspired I have to ask.

Is it okay to listen to music he made before he may or may not have become a pedophile scum, or is all of it off limits to right-thinking people?
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Old 10th March 2019, 12:20 PM   #711
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It's perfectly nice and wholesome to sleep in the same bed as a young boy. Not out of necessity mind you, but simply because it's so nice to touch, smell and feel them. No one should hesitate to leave their kids completely alone with a person who admitted doing so. Just like i wouldn't suspect someones wife or husband of infidelity if they were to sleep together with someone other than their spouse. There's no reason to assume that it isn't perfectly innocent.

Note: This is what MJ fans really believe.
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Old 10th March 2019, 12:23 PM   #712
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I've never been particularly interested in MJ's music catalog, being more of a 60s and 70s rock and roll fan, but in view of the debate which this new film seems to have inspired I have to ask.

Is it okay to listen to music he made before he may or may not have become a pedophile scum, or is all of it off limits to right-thinking people?
Anything before "Thriller". That's when he sold out.
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Old 10th March 2019, 12:26 PM   #713
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
It's perfectly nice and wholesome to sleep in the same bed as a young boy. Not out of necessity mind you, but simply because it's so nice to touch, smell and feel them. No one should hesitate to leave their kids completely alone with a person who admitted doing so. Just like i wouldn't suspect someones wife or husband of infidelity if they were to sleep together with someone other than their spouse. There's no reason to assume that it isn't perfectly innocent.

Note: This is what MJ fans really believe.
This asexual wants to know why everything has to be about sex.
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Old 10th March 2019, 12:40 PM   #714
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
It's perfectly nice and wholesome to sleep in the same bed as a young boy. Not out of necessity mind you, but simply because it's so nice to touch, smell and feel them. No one should hesitate to leave their kids completely alone with a person who admitted doing so. Just like i wouldn't suspect someones wife or husband of infidelity if they were to sleep together with someone other than their spouse. There's no reason to assume that it isn't perfectly innocent.

Note: This is what MJ fans really believe.
Also, locked door. That's completely innocent.

It's lucky he didn't have young girls around in the same situation.... that might have caused a fuss.

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Old 10th March 2019, 12:55 PM   #715
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
he didn't have young girls around
It seems that he was a pedophile with a strict interest in boys. He also modified himself to look like a woman.

It looks like a female cougar preying on young boys. From the boy's perspective, Jackson was something like a woman with a penis. There was almost no masculinity at all.

Michael Jackson was probably always gay or trans and simply had no sexual interest in females or adult males.
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Old 10th March 2019, 12:58 PM   #716
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
It's perfectly nice and wholesome to sleep in the same bed as a young boy. Not out of necessity mind you, but simply because it's so nice to touch, smell and feel them. No one should hesitate to leave their kids completely alone with a person who admitted doing so. Just like i wouldn't suspect someones wife or husband of infidelity if they were to sleep together with someone other than their spouse. There's no reason to assume that it isn't perfectly innocent.

Note: This is what MJ fans really believe.
I've done all of the above. Because the kid(s) belonged to an ex or my sister. Because sometimes letting them lay down on my shoulder was the easiest way to get them to go to sleep so I could get some alone time with their mother(s). Or because my sister was sick, sleepless, and at wit's end trying to get her kids down. In at least one case because the kid was autistic, wore a diaper, and smelling them was sometimes the easiest way to determine whether they had soiled themselves. I've even taken showers with kids and stripped naked in front of kids that were not my own before (context: Family changing rooms at a swimming pool; kids young enough not to be trustworthy by themselves).

Obviously, I must be a pedophile, right? Grow the **** up.

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Old 10th March 2019, 01:00 PM   #717
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
On that one particular charge. How you seem to be rather pedanticly wanting to use it no one outside fiction has ever been above the law.
Actually there were 14 charges I believe. Not guilty on all of them.
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Is all your life will ever be."
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Old 10th March 2019, 01:00 PM   #718
Shadowdweller
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
You might want to watch the show.
Given the consistent level of BS and factless judgment about Jackson, it's safe to presume BS until shown otherwise.

Last edited by Shadowdweller; 10th March 2019 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 10th March 2019, 01:09 PM   #719
qayak
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Corey Feldman has always defended MJ, saying there was never any untoward activity between them (although he was molested by other Hollywood figures.)

I believe that may be true, as although MJ cared for him, he was likely not his "type". I'd be more interested to hear Macauley Culkin say the same, with such conviction.
Culkin testified at MJ's trial and said Jackson never did anything inappropriate with him.
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Old 10th March 2019, 01:15 PM   #720
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Given the consistently level of BS and baseless judgment about Jackson, it's safe to presume BS until shown otherwise.
OK, don't watch it. But you're missing out on some great drone panoramas.
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