|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
3rd January 2010, 01:03 PM | #1 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 363
|
Domel says WTC had a concrete core..
Hope to get some help on this one. Domel says WTC has a concrete core in his report on WTC November 2001.
"The load carrying system was designed so that the steel facade would resist lateral and gravity forces and the interior concrete core would carry only gravity loads." http://www.ncsea.com/downloads/wtcseerp.pdf I have heard about this one before, but whats is the reason for him to make this mistake? To early after 911? So he did not have the time he "needed" to make a good report? Thats not a explenation that will convince a truther. So is there something else I can use? |
3rd January 2010, 01:36 PM | #2 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,748
|
|
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
|
3rd January 2010, 01:58 PM | #3 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 11,494
|
Did he find any 3" rebar on 4' centers?
|
3rd January 2010, 02:30 PM | #4 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 363
|
So, what sources proves the best that WTC did NOT have a concrete core?
|
3rd January 2010, 02:31 PM | #5 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,049
|
|
__________________
"Structural Engineering is the art of molding materials we do not wholly understand into shapes we cannot precisely analyze so as to understand forces we cannot really assess in such a way that the community at large has no reason to suspect the extent of our own ignorance." James E Amrhein |
|
3rd January 2010, 04:30 PM | #6 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,918
|
there was no concrete core in the WTC towers.
|
3rd January 2010, 04:51 PM | #7 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,748
|
After reading the whole paper (interesting BTW) I have to believe it was a typo or a simple "slip of the tongue". The comment is in the "general" section of the paper that was not addressing any specific item, just laying out a general description of the day and giving a brief background to base a paper that had nothing to do with the structure of the buildings. I can't see given the purpose of the paper he would have spent much time researching the construction details of the building considering the papers intent was to show how an engineering response should be done in the future.
|
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
|
3rd January 2010, 05:54 PM | #8 | |||
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dixie
Posts: 3,377
|
The book City In The Sky: The Rise and Fall of the World Trade Center by James Glanz published in 2003 covers in exhaustive detail the design and construction of the twin towers.
For those that don't like to read, these videos have details of the tower's design: http://911vids.blogspot.com/2008/02/...wers-fell.html http://911vids.blogspot.com/2008/02/...-collapse.html Edit: The WCT 1 and 2 cores were traditional steel frame construction. The problem was that these steel core columns were encased in drywall not concrete. The video below is an excerpt from the PBS Nova program Why The Towers Fell. Beginning at about the 2:20 mark, Matthys Levy, author of Why Building Fall Down, essays the opinion that if concrete was used to fireproof the core not only would more people above the impact zones been able to escape but the buildings themselves might not have collapsed.
|
|||
__________________
The Angry Atheist Podcast #112 with Walter Ego |
||||
3rd January 2010, 08:43 PM | #9 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 45,220
|
I ignored much of the whole 'Realistice' thread, but Christophera has joined a forum where I post, and he's rehashing the whole thing from what I can see.
He basically says he saw a PBS video from 1992 (?) which he says said the towers had a concrete core. He also quotes this, found here:
Quote:
Thanks for all that. |
3rd January 2010, 11:34 PM | #10 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 26,122
|
|
4th January 2010, 12:31 AM | #11 |
Muse
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 921
|
Remember the window washer guy who was able to escape from the stalled elevator by smashing through drywall with his squeegee?
|
__________________
Steven Jones: "Witness testimony evidencing explosions accompanied by white dust clouds ... are physical indicators of the presence of energetic chemical reactions in the rubble at GZ." (source) Reality: The witness in question was actually describing the dust clouds accompanying the collapse of the South Tower. (source) |
|
4th January 2010, 12:33 AM | #12 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 45,220
|
I remember! Very good point! What video was that in and/or what was his name?
ETA: Found this: http://americanhistory.si.edu/septem...cord.asp?ID=35
Quote:
|
4th January 2010, 05:14 AM | #13 |
Master Poster
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,847
|
|
4th January 2010, 05:32 AM | #14 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 363
|
|
4th January 2010, 06:46 AM | #15 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,374
|
I don't remember much of the train wreck that was the 'Realistice' thread. Did Christophera ever present any evidence that his documentary ever existed?
|
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison |
|
4th January 2010, 07:04 AM | #16 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dixie
Posts: 3,377
|
Here is a good graphic of the drywall used to fireproof the core. It came from this flash site:
http://www.lohud.com/graphics/911/fl...owersfell.html To view the flash animation, open the link and click on menu (lower right) and choose "fireproofing and drywall" then "visual details." |
__________________
The Angry Atheist Podcast #112 with Walter Ego |
|
4th January 2010, 07:12 AM | #17 |
Muse
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 549
|
|
__________________
"Oh that's right, you're an irrational, UNREASONABLE, piece of <radio edit> who hides behind his computer screen and expects action..." - Aldo |
|
4th January 2010, 09:10 AM | #18 |
Chief Punkah Wallah
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 9,811
|
But fortunately he, and he alone, remembered the documentary.
Wait, now, was there not some American Indian / Native American bloke too? |
__________________
When the men elected to make laws are but a small part of a foreign parliament, that is when all healthy national feeling dies. James Keir Hardie (1856 - 1915): Politician, Founder of Scottish Labour Party |
|
4th January 2010, 09:23 AM | #19 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,374
|
|
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison |
|
4th January 2010, 01:22 PM | #20 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 7,032
|
I think he was referring to a native American iron worker who claimed to have worked the site during construction. Describing a concrete core. if i recall he eventually drank himself to death.
Chris is paranoid delusional. He attempted to claim the core was pyramid like with walls tens of feet thick at the lobby level. When I countered that I had been in the towers and took those elevators that were only a few feet from the outer walls he claimed I was lying. When shown images with the sunrise showing through the core during construction he devised a crude floor plan of his own making aligning hallways with the sunlight. Chris is hopeless and the only reason to engage him would be for the study or curiosity of a debilitating mental illness. |
__________________
911 resource site by Mark Roberts http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance. Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane? Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude. |
|
4th January 2010, 11:23 PM | #21 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 45,220
|
Here's the first thread he started about the "FEMA Deception":
http://www.freedomcrowsnest.org/foru...ic.php?t=82947 (Ron Wieck has been posting to it to. ) Then Christophera started this thread to try and poison the well in his own favour: http://www.freedomcrowsnest.org/foru...ic.php?t=82961 And seeing things weren't going his way, he started this one accusing everyone who's responded to him, even the truthers, of being "agents": http://www.freedomcrowsnest.org/foru...ic.php?t=82986 He's been replying to all three of his threads like an Energiser Bunny. |
4th January 2010, 11:26 PM | #22 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,204
|
I would suggest that as a response, you just link the REALSTICE thread here and advise anyone that wants to deal with Chris Brown, to read that thread instead. Beceause he is only rehashing the same crap he was peddling here, and being countered on over and over and over and over and over and over again.
|
__________________
Back home with a new sunburn...I look like a tomato. “Life may begin at 30, but it doesn’t get real interesting until about 150.” “Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.” |
|
4th January 2010, 11:54 PM | #23 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 975
|
Here's a short video showing the construction of the towers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqDTEZIdg7g |
5th January 2010, 12:18 AM | #24 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 7,682
|
I fondly remember the day Chris nearly filled an entire page arguing with HIMSELF.
It was beautiful to watch |
5th January 2010, 12:34 AM | #25 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 7,032
|
yes i remember that. it was a time when just about every single member here (except myself) put him on ignore. His Realstice thread began dropping to the second and then the third page. When he alone kept bumping it by arguing with himself, and got suspended, he ignored mod warnings and continued to bump it (or start a new one when mods closed it?) which if i recall was what got him banned. |
__________________
911 resource site by Mark Roberts http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance. Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane? Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude. |
|
5th January 2010, 01:40 AM | #26 |
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,797
|
"That boy ain't right, I tell you whut"
I did about 5 pages of that thread orphia linked before I got sick of seeing the same photo montage every other post. CT-OCD, very rare, very annoying. |
5th February 2010, 07:59 AM | #27 |
Goddess of Legaltainment™
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 36,472
|
|
5th February 2010, 08:28 AM | #28 |
This space for rent.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,715
|
Thank you Lash.
I have the utmost respect for Leslie Robertson, and a great deal of sympathy for him. It is amazing how twoofs have gone out of their way to datamine his statements and the fact that nearly a decade after that horrible day he still has to provide direct refutations of the LIES out there. |
5th February 2010, 09:17 AM | #29 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
|
People;
discussing anything with Christophera is like encouraging the village idiot to run for president...do you also enjoy beating dead puppies? TAM |
5th February 2010, 09:47 AM | #30 |
NWO Master Conspirator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
|
Hey, the structural engineer/architect we hired to make the blueprints of our last porch job thought a single-layer brick facade was actually load bearing and 3 layers thick, and showed an existing shingle pitched roof draining towards the back when it's actually a flat tar roof draining towards the center. Not to mention the parts of his drawing that resemble the neverending staircase illusion where it looks good on paper but can't actually be built in real life.
We won't be using that guy again. Sometimes people half-ass it. |
__________________
Vive la liberté! |
|
6th February 2010, 06:28 PM | #31 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,440
|
|
7th February 2010, 01:20 PM | #32 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,748
|
Actually in the case of Domel I believe it was more of a case of typo or misunderstanding by someone writing (transcribing) the article for him. I believe I stated it earlier (after reading his work) that this was clearly a misunderstanding that the "truthers" were trying to sway as evidence. He does not in anyway support their conclusions.
As far as "truthers" go. If it ain't on youtube it doesn't exist. |
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
|
30th June 2013, 07:38 PM | #33 |
persona non grata
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,950
|
Wtc concrete core - domel
|
__________________
Truth, like the sun, allows itself to be obscured; but, like the sun, only for a time. __Bovee Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to light. __George Washington All great truths begin as blasphemies __Shaw |
|
30th June 2013, 09:46 PM | #34 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,862
|
|
2nd July 2013, 09:45 AM | #35 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,049
|
|
__________________
"Structural Engineering is the art of molding materials we do not wholly understand into shapes we cannot precisely analyze so as to understand forces we cannot really assess in such a way that the community at large has no reason to suspect the extent of our own ignorance." James E Amrhein |
|
2nd July 2013, 11:46 AM | #36 |
Great minds think...
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 13,903
|
|
__________________
“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
|
2nd July 2013, 02:57 PM | #37 |
persona non grata
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,950
|
Ah yes
Ah Yes - this post ? http://www.internationalskeptics.com...58#post5475358 as compared to this post- http://www.internationalskeptics.com...25#post7569825 Do you think the fact that the WTC towers cores were constructed with "steel columns encased in dense concrete" would prompt some, if not all , of those structural engineers that don't question the the official narrative into rethinking their opinions ? |
__________________
Truth, like the sun, allows itself to be obscured; but, like the sun, only for a time. __Bovee Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to light. __George Washington All great truths begin as blasphemies __Shaw |
|
2nd July 2013, 03:06 PM | #38 |
Great minds think...
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 13,903
|
No, I was referring to this one, actually. There was no concrete core.
|
__________________
“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
|
2nd July 2013, 08:48 PM | #39 |
persona non grata
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,950
|
You agree with Thunder and offer an unsigned statement featuring Leslie Robertson's
name as iron clad evidence of "no concrete core" Strange ! http://www.internationalskeptics.com...54#post7568954 Mr. Robertson is cited here in a Newsweek-MSNBC news article dated 09-13-2001 as follows: "Still, Robertson, whose firm is responsible for three of the six tallest buildings in the world, feels a sense of pride that the massive towers, supported by a steel-tube exoskeleton and a reinforced concrete core, held up as well as they did" http://web.archive.org/web/200703060...om/id/3069641/ OH YEAH You forgot to address the second link I posted mentioning the WTC 1 & 2 concrete cores http://www.internationalskeptics.com...25#post7569825 |
__________________
Truth, like the sun, allows itself to be obscured; but, like the sun, only for a time. __Bovee Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to light. __George Washington All great truths begin as blasphemies __Shaw |
|
2nd July 2013, 08:51 PM | #40 |
Great minds think...
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 13,903
|
|
__________________
“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|