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Old 12th March 2019, 08:44 AM   #4041
Tolls
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
How's that going on the UK side?
It's going swimmingly.
With the immense intellectual capacity of the current government I don't see how it could be otherwise.
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Old 12th March 2019, 08:46 AM   #4042
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
In the meantime, in the Netherlands at least, for the past month or so I've been hearing commercials warning companies to start taking measures to prepare for the fallout of a no-deal brexit combined with reports about how places like Rotterdam harbour and Schiphol airport have been making extra waiting spaces in anticipation.

How's that going on the UK side?
Apparently we've got one carriageway of the M20 motorway, the entire M26 and Manston Airport (disused) earmarked to park lorries in. Of those, only the M20 is particularly close to Dover, and the road journey to Manston - an area I know quite well as I grew up near there - involves a lot of roads that aren't particularly capacious, as well as being in the opposite direction to almost anywhere the contents might be headed. So, it's all pretty much on the same strong and stable footing as everything else Brexit-related.

Dave

ETA: SNP's Westminster Leader Ian Blackford just asked, "Our friends and neighbours are watching - what must they think?" I suspect we have a pretty good idea, at least of that if of nothing else.

Also ETA: Theresa May says, "Where would it end? So you have another referendum, then everybody says let's have a third one?" as she speaks in favour of a second motion to accept the exact deal that was rejected at the first attempt, and appears to have no better plan if it fails again than to try a few more times. No points for self-awareness there.
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Old 12th March 2019, 09:38 AM   #4043
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The EU vote has to be unanimous. Estonia can unilaterally shuttle the extension.
Yes, I clearly stated that, though I suggested Poland was the one to put the spanner in the works.
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Old 12th March 2019, 10:05 AM   #4044
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Yes, I clearly stated that, though I suggested Poland was the one to put the spanner in the works.
I can't help thinking in the light of recent events that a more likely stumbling block for the extension application is if we have the power to veto it ourselves...

Dave
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Old 12th March 2019, 10:40 AM   #4045
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
This seems to have been lost in the mix but how much of the legislation required to actually make a no deal happen has been passed and how much remains to be done?

Can it even all be achieved by the exit date?
Perhaps you misstated your question but the UK leaves the EU by automatic operation of law end of March. Nothing needs to be done to make this happen.
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Old 12th March 2019, 12:29 PM   #4046
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https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/03/12...ite-reactions/


Includes this quote
Quote:
The ‘new’ Withdrawal Agreement’ is half the size of the ‘old’ one! Not a single word in it has changed…but they’ve pathetically altered the pagination to make it look different. The perfect symbol of Theresa May’s contrick Brexit Brexit. pic.twitter.com/rtKB3HBsdu

— Owen Smith (@OwenSmith_MP) March 12, 2019
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Old 12th March 2019, 12:32 PM   #4047
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So, another loss for the PM, for the UK another BM.
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Old 12th March 2019, 12:37 PM   #4048
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
So, another loss for the PM, for the UK another BM.
Bowel Movement?
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Old 12th March 2019, 12:39 PM   #4049
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Seriously, this is like watching somebody claiming that if they just set their car on fire, then they will be able to jump the 200 feet gorge to the land of milk and honey, while at the same time claiming that they want to neither burn nor crash while pouring the gasoline over the car.
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Old 12th March 2019, 12:50 PM   #4050
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
It's going swimmingly.
With the immense intellectual capacity of the current government I don't see how it could be otherwise.
Or to use a American expression:


"It's working great, Beav, working great"....


(On the classic "Leave It To Beaver" sitcom, Beaver;s older brother, Wally, would say that when trying to carry out one of his schemes. Of course, it always blew up in his face about a minute after he said that).
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Old 12th March 2019, 12:51 PM   #4051
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And the farce continues...
Maybe an MP can now propose a motion to ignore the referendum and pretend Brexit never happened?
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Old 12th March 2019, 12:52 PM   #4052
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
??? Invoking article 50 was all that was needed to make no deal happen. To make it less of a disaster much more would be needed and of course that hasn't been done.

Bets on how many days the que to get goods into and out of the country will become? And where will the trucks all que up?
No there is a shedload of legislation that needs to be passed to make a functioning country on March 29th. Otherwise we are not a member of the EU but still legally embroiled in it and all its institutions or we have no laws at all.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47063473
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Old 12th March 2019, 12:57 PM   #4053
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I think that tomorrow no deal will be voted down and we will have to ask for a delay.
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Old 12th March 2019, 12:58 PM   #4054
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So another May defeat.
It is a sad comment on the level of political leadership in the Tories that May is still in power and may even survive this. In times past she would have been gone a long time ago.
And it is even sadder I don't see Labor as offering leadership that much better.
I think it is a problem for both the UK and the US that a lot of the best and the brightest simply do not want to go into politics.
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Old 12th March 2019, 12:59 PM   #4055
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Well, at least thanks to the BBC we now know that some muppet in a social club in Luton isn't worried at the prospect of a no-deal exit.

Meanwhile, outside Parliament, other muppets are holding "Let's Go WTO!" placards.

FFS....

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Old 12th March 2019, 01:00 PM   #4056
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I think that tomorrow no deal will be voted down and we will have to ask for a delay.
The EU team have said there will need to be an actual plan before an extension is agreed.
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:02 PM   #4057
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
So another May defeat.
It is a sad comment on the level of political leadership in the Tories that May is still in power and may even survive this. In times past she would have been gone a long time ago.
And it is even sadder I don't see Labor as offering leadership that much better.
I think it is a problem for both the UK and the US that a lot of the best and the brightest simply do not want to go into politics.
You've been around Brits too long - that's masterful understatement.
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:03 PM   #4058
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Maybe the officer of Lord Protector need to be revived?
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:07 PM   #4059
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
The EU team have said there will need to be an actual plan before an extension is agreed.
I think they mean a plan to replace May's deal, not that another deal has to be presented.

The problem is, there is no sign whatsoever that there is going to be new deal that can get through Parliament.
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:08 PM   #4060
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Maybe the officer of Lord Protector need to be revived?
Yes, but with our luck we'd get the MP with the views closest to the first one, so a DUP one.
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:09 PM   #4061
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Given the quality of leadership in the UK currently, why would Commonwealth countries even want to deal with the UK at all? I mean, if they can't even make an orderly exit from the EU in some shape or form even after some years, how long will it take to make viable and specific trade deals with other countries and get it happening? Any time before we all get swamped by rising waters due to tectonic drift?
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:10 PM   #4062
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I don't like Oliver Cromwell very much,. but I think his words of dismissal to the Rump Parliament are just classic:

Quote:
It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place,

which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice.

Ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government.

Ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess?

Ye have no more religion than my horse. Gold is your God. Which of you have not bartered your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defiled this sacred place, and turned the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices?

Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation. You were deputed here by the people to get grievances redressed, are yourselves become the greatest grievance.

Your country therefore calls upon me to cleanse this Augean stable, by putting a final period to your iniquitous proceedings in this House; and which by God's help, and the strength he has given me, I am now come to do.

I command ye therefore, upon the peril of your lives, to depart immediately out of this place.

Go, get you out! Make haste! Ye venal slaves be gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors.

In the name of God, go!
I suspect a lot of people in the UK think that about the current Parliament....
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:14 PM   #4063
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Ok. Lets be realistic here.

One of the previous times the British government ran into trouble, we Dutch were perfectly willing to help by lending you one of our administrators.
I'm sure if you want to, we can do so again. And this time he's even got heirs.
It's sure to be a big hit with the DUP as well, as they still parade his colours around one day a year.
He comes with free trade deals to Argentine too.
And since the referendum was for the UK and not the new united kingdom of Great Britain, the Netherlands and Northern Ireland everyone can pretend it never happened.

Sure, we'll make licorice a mandatory sweet, but that's got to be worth the trade off?
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:25 PM   #4064
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
DUP have said they don't support the deal. Not exactly a surprise, but apparently a few MPs have been saying that DUP support could have made a big difference.
To think the DUP received 0.99% of the vote in NI and now Arlene Forster and her wee boys are holding the entire UK by the balls.
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:28 PM   #4065
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I think that tomorrow no deal will be voted down and we will have to ask for a delay.
'Ask' being the operative word. But would we get it?
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:29 PM   #4066
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I don't like Oliver Cromwell very much,. but I think his words of dismissal to the Rump Parliament are just classic:



I suspect a lot of people in the UK think that about the current Parliament....
Sadly, his head ended on a stake.
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:35 PM   #4067
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Given the quality of leadership in the UK currently, why would Commonwealth countries even want to deal with the UK at all? I mean, if they can't even make an orderly exit from the EU in some shape or form even after some years, how long will it take to make viable and specific trade deals with other countries and get it happening? Any time before we all get swamped by rising waters due to tectonic drift?
Good point. What chance do we have negotiating decent deals with for example, India, China or Brazil? We are not a power any more.
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:38 PM   #4068
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
'Ask' being the operative word. But would we get it?
Probably, but the EU could put conditions on it.
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:40 PM   #4069
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Ok. Lets be realistic here.

One of the previous times the British government ran into trouble, we Dutch were perfectly willing to help by lending you one of our administrators.
I'm sure if you want to, we can do so again. And this time he's even got heirs.
It's sure to be a big hit with the DUP as well, as they still parade his colours around one day a year.
He comes with free trade deals to Argentine too.
And since the referendum was for the UK and not the new united kingdom of Great Britain, the Netherlands and Northern Ireland everyone can pretend it never happened.

Sure, we'll make licorice a mandatory sweet, but that's got to be worth the trade off?
Good idea.
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Old 12th March 2019, 02:10 PM   #4070
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Ok. Lets be realistic here.

One of the previous times the British government ran into trouble, we Dutch were perfectly willing to help by lending you one of our administrators.
I'm sure if you want to, we can do so again. And this time he's even got heirs.
It's sure to be a big hit with the DUP as well, as they still parade his colours around one day a year.
He comes with free trade deals to Argentine too.
And since the referendum was for the UK and not the new united kingdom of Great Britain, the Netherlands and Northern Ireland everyone can pretend it never happened.

Sure, we'll make licorice a mandatory sweet, but that's got to be worth the trade off?
Add Denmark to the deal and you have my vote. They have excellent bacon.
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Old 12th March 2019, 02:21 PM   #4071
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
To think the DUP received 0.99% of the vote in NI and now Arlene Forster and her wee boys are holding the entire UK by the balls.
You have the same situation in Israel, where a couple of very small extreme religious parties hold the balance of power.

This is why, despite my dissatisfaction with the political situation in the US, I do not want to go to a parliamentary system.
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Old 12th March 2019, 02:22 PM   #4072
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Not necessarily.

Firstly, the vote to delay is non-binding so Theresa May could choose to ignore it entirely and press on with no-deal (or hope for a 22:59:59 swap to her deal on 29 March). If a tiny minority of Conservative MPs vote in favour but the vote passes, I can see her ignoring the outcome.

Secondly, as I understand it, the EU has to agree to a delay so in theory, after all the pain of getting a Brexit extension through parliament, Poland could torpedo it.

Thirdly, presumably there would need to be some agreement by parliament as to the nature of the delay. If Theresa May came back with a 15 year (or 15 minute for that matter) agreement to delay Brexit then there will be ructions.

Yet more reasons why I think no-deal is inevitable.
A lot of the 27 have reasons not to feel well disposed to the UK
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Old 12th March 2019, 02:48 PM   #4073
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Finally someone to take charge of Brexit.

https://twitter.com/Number10cat/stat...53311938330624
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Old 12th March 2019, 03:03 PM   #4074
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Sadly, his head ended on a stake.
Well, it was after he died of natural causes.
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 12th March 2019, 03:11 PM   #4075
angrysoba
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Anyway, the no deal vote will be a free vote so at least the Don’s nightmare scenario of the Tories being whipped into no deal can’t come to pass. We’ll just do no deal in a frenzy of indecision instead.
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 12th March 2019, 03:33 PM   #4076
a_unique_person
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If I had place a bet on these votes I would have one all of them but the bookies would have only given me my money back.
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Old 12th March 2019, 04:13 PM   #4077
KDLarsen
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
ETA: SNP's Westminster Leader Ian Blackford just asked, "Our friends and neighbours are watching - what must they think?" I suspect we have a pretty good idea, at least of that if of nothing else.
The Danish PM put it quite rigfht this evening, on Danish evening news, when he remarked it was high time the British politicians started getting a grip and working out something both sides of the House can agree on.

On that note, it was lost in The Guardian's rolling coverage of today's event, but more than one Labour MP is supposed to have said they thought was the best the UK was going to get, and that they would be happy to vote for it, if not for the fact that it was dead in the water already, and nobody wanted to be seen voting for something with that amount of stigma attached to it.

Edit: As pointed out by Sky's political editor earlier, some government sources said they had been advised that putting extending article 50 up for a vote would be risky, as it could be amended into something that is completely unacceptable to the EU.

Last edited by KDLarsen; 12th March 2019 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 12th March 2019, 04:35 PM   #4078
dudalb
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Finally someone to take charge of Brexit.

https://twitter.com/Number10cat/stat...53311938330624
You sure it's a cat and not a flirkin?

(Could not resist;saw "Captain Marvel" this weekend).
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Old 12th March 2019, 04:37 PM   #4079
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Well, watching BBC on cable will be fun tonight.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

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Old 12th March 2019, 11:56 PM   #4080
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
The EU team have said there will need to be an actual plan before an extension is agreed.
EU can help the belaguarded British in this case:

Sure, you can have your extension, but only if you use it to hold a referendum on terms of leaving the EU. So long as you vote for MPs in EU elections and include the answers "the agreed upon deal" and "no Brexit" as possibilities in the referendum you can take your sweet time.

It's not an ideal solution, but I doubt the Parliament is even able to resolve the issue without such intervention. Not even a general election would help - there is no reason to believe it would produce a substantially different government and even if it did, Corbyn's 'plan' has the same broad issues as that of the government, it just slightly differs in which impossible concessions it seeks to extract from the EU.

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