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Tags border walls , donald trump , immigration issues , Trump controversies

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Old 8th March 2019, 07:00 AM   #441
Captain_Swoop
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That figure includes all those trying to enter, not just those that are crossing the southern border and stopped by patrols.
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Old 8th March 2019, 07:03 AM   #442
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Trump Tweets

The Wall is being built and is well under construction. Big impact will be made. Many additional contracts are close to being signed. Far ahead of schedule despite all of the Democrat Obstruction and Fake News!

We are apprehending record numbers of illegal immigrants - but we need the Wall to help our great Border Patrol Agents!

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 8th March 2019 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 8th March 2019, 07:10 AM   #443
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
That figure includes all those trying to enter, not just those that are crossing the southern border and stopped by patrols.
The tweet wasn't exclusive to patrols. Which counts towards an apprehension, it seems. They were trying to cross illegally, you caught them, and stopped them.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 8th March 2019 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 8th March 2019, 09:05 AM   #444
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I see this particular vote in the senate as more important to senate elections in 2020 than anything having to do with the president. In close races it may matter that a GOP senator handed over the most important power of the legislative branch to satisfy the whims of an unpopular president.

I don't think that very many GOP voters are that discerning.

In a primary what they will remember is that the Senator voted against their hero Trump. In the general election they won't care, because an issue that arcane (to them) isn't going to keep them from voting for the GOP candidate.
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Old 8th March 2019, 09:07 AM   #445
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Originally Posted by Traveler Steve View Post
Respectfully, I don't see it that way. I see it as some Republicans are scared witless that, in the future, a "librul" President will declare a national emergency on the number of firearms in the country leading to "an unacceptable number of mass shootings and needless deaths" and start pumping out executive orders to "grab them guns".

Or even declare a national health emergency for the "unacceptable number of needless deaths in the health care system" and pump up Obamacare to be a truly socialized health-care system.

It's not about Trump, really, it's about future Presidential power grabs.

Republicans have a poor history when it comes to considering unintended consequences.

They'll just figure that it can't happen to them.
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Old 8th March 2019, 09:08 AM   #446
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Republican skew older. They just figure they'll be dead long before any of the consequences come back to bite in the ass.

I'm only halfway joking. I'd wager for younger Republicans (South Park Republicans and the like) it's the same base nihilism just with "The world is gonna end" filling in for "We're gonna die."
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Old 8th March 2019, 11:24 PM   #447
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Originally Posted by Traveler Steve View Post
Respectfully, I don't see it that way. I see it as some Republicans are scared witless that, in the future, a "librul" President will declare a national emergency on the number of firearms in the country leading to "an unacceptable number of mass shootings and needless deaths" and start pumping out executive orders to "grab them guns".

Or even declare a national health emergency for the "unacceptable number of needless deaths in the health care system" and pump up Obamacare to be a truly socialized health-care system.

It's not about Trump, really, it's about future Presidential power grabs.
It's both depending on which side of the coin you are looking at.
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Old 9th March 2019, 01:13 AM   #448
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

The Wall is being built and is well under construction. Big impact will be made. Many additional contracts are close to being signed. Far ahead of schedule despite all of the Democrat Obstruction and Fake News!

We are apprehending record numbers of illegal immigrants - but we need the Wall to help our great Border Patrol Agents!
He has a hard time when he needs to plead an emergency at the same time his NPD makes him need to always be winning.
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Old 9th March 2019, 11:06 AM   #449
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Reality check: Is there any new wall being built, not just repairs-as-usual?
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Old 9th March 2019, 11:09 AM   #450
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Republican skew older. They just figure they'll be dead long before any of the consequences come back to bite in the ass.

I'm only halfway joking. I'd wager for younger Republicans (South Park Republicans and the like) it's the same base nihilism just with "The world is gonna end" filling in for "We're gonna die."
A fish rots from the head down:
When President Trump has literally been shown data and charts by senior officials showing what year(s) the debt is expected to explode, Trump has referenced the first year & said “yeah, but I won’t be here.” That’s a direct quote
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Old 9th March 2019, 11:10 AM   #451
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Reality check: Is there any new wall being built, not just repairs-as-usual?
No there is not.
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Old 9th March 2019, 11:28 AM   #452
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Trump Tweets

Border Patrol and Law Enforcement has apprehended (captured) large numbers of illegal immigrants at the Border. They won’t be coming into the U.S. The Wall is being built and will greatly help us in the future, and now!
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:23 PM   #453
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

The Wall is being built and is well under construction. Big impact will be made. Many additional contracts are close to being signed. Far ahead of schedule despite all of the Democrat Obstruction and Fake News!

We are apprehending record numbers of illegal immigrants - but we need the Wall to help our great Border Patrol Agents!

Where do they go when apprehended?

If less people crossed wouldn't that help the detention problem we have? That is an actual, real life problem. Y'all do remember that, right? Protests and all that stuff? We have no room for them.

People here complain about the treatment of them, and of the family separation policies themselves.

Well one solution would be to lower the amount of people successfully getting into the country! The "Coyotes" don't even have to sneak them in anymore because once they reach the border we take them! We are making it worse for ourselves AND the people trying to get in. After all they are the ones sitting in the severely overcrowded detention centers.

And who is blamed for the overcrowding? Republicans. Who is offering no workable alternative to a wall? Who wants to let them vote (they already do in SF)? The people blaming the Republicans. I blame all sides because nobody really wants this problem solved. One side just claims to, I think.

Wanna solve the detention overcrowding? Stop them before they get in here, or send them right back when they do. Catch and release is designed to keep them here, as most end up staying.

Turn them away. The end. Anything else is just politics.

ETA:
If y'all want your free health care, college, and internet, sealing the border is going to be a requirement. You think illegals are a problem now? Just wait.
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:32 PM   #454
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I wonder if Twitter ever realized that it would be used as the primary platform for spreading lies by the POTUS?
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Old 9th March 2019, 07:36 PM   #455
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I wonder if you'll ever add anything of substance to a thread.

ICE drops dozens more migrants at Phoenix bus station; volunteers overwhelmed


Quote:
Immigration officials dropped off about 50 more undocumented migrants, mostly from Central America, Friday morning at a Greyhound bus station near Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport, where they were left to fend for themselves as overwhelmed volunteers sought help for them.

Great plan!!!

Quote:
The group was the latest in a series of migrant drop-offs that began late last year and has been continuing on and off ever since. Local church volunteers have been working to accommodate them, but their resources have become increasingly strained.

Quote:
Since Dec. 21, according to the data, ICE has released 84,500 migrant family members. Of that, 14,500 have been released in the Phoenix area, 37,500 have been released in communities in south Texas, 24,000 in El Paso and 8,500 in San Diego, the data shows.
14,500 people in one city since December 21. Holy crap. No problem, right?


Quote:
"It's becoming a real crisis," said Aliza Young, who is also with Last Mile AZ. "ICE is relying on people in the community to get people to their next immigration hearing."

No YOU are. YOU made this happen!

These idiots want sanctuary cities and states, then complain when they can't afford to take care of the illegals that are dropped off.

We drop off illegal aliens all over the country. We don't know who many of them are, whether or not they are criminals, yet they are free to do whatever they want in here. In our towns. Most of them never show up for their court dates, and 99% of them never leave.

These states want to thumb their noses to the feds, not help ICE, then complain and ask for handouts when they get exactly what they wanted!

Is there a crisis or isn't there? Make up your stupid minds.
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Old 10th March 2019, 10:04 AM   #456
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Is there a crisis or isn't there? Make up your stupid minds.
Trump claimed there was (it's the subject of this thread, after all). A bunch of shrieking Fox News heads used to say there was. A bunch of gullible right wing news junkies bought the claim that there was. But the rub is, data shows there isn't.

You seem to think there is some sort of crisis, how about you show exactly what is the crisis and exactly why it's a crisis? I know that fewer people are illegally crossing the borders than has happened for years, and I'm not afraid of brown people so you're going to have a tough sell.
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Old 10th March 2019, 11:33 AM   #457
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I wonder if you'll ever add anything of substance to a thread.

ICE drops dozens more migrants at Phoenix bus station; volunteers overwhelmed
That's a totally contradictory story there. Looks like a headline has you fooled.

It starts out saying they are "undocumented immigrants", implying they are illegals. Then reading further we find they ALL actually do have correct-and-in-order documentation provided by ICE, i.e. they are DOCUMENTED. And that they are all MIGRANTS, i.e. they have waited at the border for months, applied LEGALLY to enter the USA, and have been given approval BY THE U.S. AUTHORITIES to reside in the USA until their immigration status court hearings happen.

In other words, they have done all the right things by U.S. border authorities, waited their turn, filled out all the right forms, have not jumped the wall or run through the desert, and are therefore totally legal migrant applicants for citizenship. What more could they do? Oh, I know.

The only thing you seem to be objecting to is that they had the temerity to be Honduran or Mexican or just brown when they applied.

Judgement by headline...
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Old 10th March 2019, 11:51 AM   #458
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I wonder if you'll ever add anything of substance to a thread.

ICE drops dozens more migrants at Phoenix bus station; volunteers overwhelmed

Great plan!!!

14,500 people in one city since December 21. Holy crap. No problem, right?

No YOU are. YOU made this happen!

These idiots want sanctuary cities and states, then complain when they can't afford to take care of the illegals that are dropped off.

We drop off illegal aliens all over the country. We don't know who many of them are, whether or not they are criminals, yet they are free to do whatever they want in here. In our towns. Most of them never show up for their court dates, and 99% of them never leave.

These states want to thumb their noses to the feds, not help ICE, then complain and ask for handouts when they get exactly what they wanted!

Is there a crisis or isn't there? Make up your stupid minds.
First, at least make an attempt to understand what the sanctuary cities are about: assuring undocumented persons can call the cops if they need to without fear of being deported. If you don't do that then criminals can victimize people without them being able to call the cops. That makes everyone less safe.

Moving on. ICE is almost certainly trying to gin up the crisis.
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Old 11th March 2019, 12:52 PM   #459
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Trump Tweets

Republican Senators have a very easy vote this week. It is about Border Security and the Wall (stopping Crime, Drugs etc.), not Constitutionality and Precedent. It is an 80% positive issue. The Dems are 100% United, as usual, on a 20% issue, Open Borders and Crime. Get tough R’s!
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Old 11th March 2019, 02:32 PM   #460
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Republican Senators have a very easy vote this week. It is about Border Security and the Wall (stopping Crime, Drugs etc.), not Constitutionality and Precedent.
Umm... wait a second...

Did Trump just state that he doesn't care about the constitution?
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Old 11th March 2019, 02:39 PM   #461
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It would seem so.
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Old 11th March 2019, 02:46 PM   #462
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Umm... wait a second...

Did Trump just state that he doesn't care about the constitution?
He'll deny he ever wrote it and declare it Fake News.
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Old 11th March 2019, 04:28 PM   #463
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The resolution is still referred to committee with no hearing on it I can find. At this point it will need to start moving with unanimous consent. They are running out of time before recess if anyone forces cloture votes.
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Old 11th March 2019, 04:33 PM   #464
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
The resolution is still referred to committee with no hearing on it I can find. At this point it will need to start moving with unanimous consent. They are running out of time before recess if anyone forces cloture votes.
Out of curiosity, what happens if the thing drags on for months and months without ever being finalised? Does the status quo continue to apply? If so, what is that status quo?
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Old 11th March 2019, 04:34 PM   #465
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Republican Senators have a very easy vote this week. It is about Border Security and the Wall (stopping Crime, Drugs etc.), not Constitutionality and Precedent. It is an 80% positive issue. The Dems are 100% United, as usual, on a 20% issue, Open Borders and Crime. Get tough R’s!
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Umm... wait a second...

Did Trump just state that he doesn't care about the constitution?
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
It would seem so.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
He'll deny he ever wrote it and declare it Fake News.
The words "constitutionality" and "precedent" not in the Trump personal vocabulary. I seriously doubt he can pronounce them without his teeth falling out, let alone understand what they mean in context. This sounds like Miller put him up to this one. Fake Trump!!
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Old 11th March 2019, 04:35 PM   #466
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Out of curiosity, what happens if the thing drags on for months and months without ever being finalised? Does the status quo continue to apply? If so, what is that status quo?
It remains merely a bill.
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Old 11th March 2019, 04:41 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
It remains merely a bill.
So what of Trump's Emergency Declaration? Is that in hiatus meanwhile?
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Old 11th March 2019, 04:59 PM   #468
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
So what of Trump's Emergency Declaration? Is that in hiatus meanwhile?
A bill has no statutory force. His declaration stands (court cases are proceeding, however).
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:20 PM   #469
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How is everyone doing during this time of National Emergency? I'm fine. Still hunkered down in the basement with plenty of food, water and bullets stocked. No brown horde is going to rape, murder or spread smallpox in my house!
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:24 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
A bill has no statutory force. His declaration stands (court cases are proceeding, however).
So with court cases proceeding, is the EC effective? Or do the courts need to issue stays for that.
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Old 11th March 2019, 07:34 PM   #471
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
How is everyone doing during this time of National Emergency? I'm fine. Still hunkered down in the basement with plenty of food, water and bullets stocked. No brown horde is going to rape, murder or spread smallpox in my house!
...
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Old 11th March 2019, 07:43 PM   #472
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Just doing my patriotic duty, Mr. Peabody.
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Old 11th March 2019, 08:32 PM   #473
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
So with court cases proceeding, is the EC effective? Or do the courts need to issue stays for that.
Well, here's where legal theory gets tricky. While the President can fire (some) people who would have to actually enact changes, those people are also very aware of the ethics rules which say they can't mess with their budgets as Congress allocated them. Especially those who are in departments the money is being moved away from, one wonders if they really have pressed any buttons or made any moves. Certainly a lot of department staff are calling their lawyers and asking questions.

But no, I don't recall any stays being issued.

Here's the big multi-state case:
https://dockets.justia.com/docket/ca...cv00872/338455

So far all the actions appear to be cobbling the various cases into this one and all the out-of-state lawyers filing their appearances.

Trump's order is theoretically active, as far as I can tell.

and yet...there's no indication it is actually getting built (plenty of repairs and additions had already been budgeted). There is no concrete behemoth wall going up, there's no barrier going up in stupidly remote areas, just planned expansions and maintenance by all appearances.

ETA: hell, his new budget calls for the funds to build the wall. Why does the next budget need that if he's building it with the current budget?

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Old 11th March 2019, 08:44 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Well, here's where legal theory gets tricky. While the President can fire (some) people who would have to actually enact changes, those people are also very aware of the ethics rules which say they can't mess with their budgets as Congress allocated them. Especially those who are in departments the money is being moved away from, one wonders if they really have pressed any buttons or made any moves. Certainly a lot of department staff are calling their lawyers and asking questions.

But no, I don't recall any stays being issued.

Here's the big multi-state case:
https://dockets.justia.com/docket/ca...cv00872/338455

So far all the actions appear to be cobbling the various cases into this one and all the out-of-state lawyers filing their appearances.

Trump's order is theoretically active, as far as I can tell.

and yet...there's no indication it is actually getting built (plenty of repairs and additions had already been budgeted). There is no concrete behemoth wall going up, there's no barrier going up in stupidly remote areas, just planned expansions and maintenance by all appearances.

ETA: hell, his new budget calls for the funds to build the wall. Why does the next budget need that if he's building it with the current budget?
It certainly appears that there is no emergency at all if the border forces are already dealing successfully with all current incursions using what they have right now. Which is precisely what Team Trump are claiming...

In which case they have created a very expensive and utterly time-wasting legal and financial quandary out of nothing that will gain them absolutely nothing should they "win" and is no loss to them if they concede (i.e. it's all pointless). Is that SERIOUSLY acceptable as the work of competent legal and fiscal experts who run a nation? If any private company's legal and accounting team behaved like this, their board and shareholders would fire them on the spot with all benefits forfeit.
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Old 11th March 2019, 08:59 PM   #475
Delphic Oracle
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
It certainly appears that there is no emergency at all if the border forces are already dealing successfully with all current incursions using what they have right now. Which is precisely what Team Trump are claiming...

In which case they have created a very expensive and utterly time-wasting legal and financial quandary out of nothing that will gain them absolutely nothing should they "win" and is no loss to them if they concede (i.e. it's all pointless). Is that SERIOUSLY acceptable as the work of competent legal and fiscal experts who run a nation? If any private company's legal and accounting team behaved like this, their board and shareholders would fire them on the spot with all benefits forfeit.
There were some (federalized?) forces that festooned barbed wire all over some fence in one town. The town was not happy that their quite multicultural community (on an international border, can you imagine?) was being portrayed to the rest of the country like it was the Green Zone circa 2006.
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Old 11th March 2019, 09:56 PM   #476
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
There were some (federalized?) forces that festooned barbed wire all over some fence in one town. The town was not happy that their quite multicultural community (on an international border, can you imagine?) was being portrayed to the rest of the country like it was the Green Zone circa 2006.
El Paso. Then they had Trump turn up and do a speech as well. I would not have been surprised if someone had given him a kick in the bollox.
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Old 12th March 2019, 06:58 AM   #477
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
The resolution is still referred to committee with no hearing on it I can find. At this point it will need to start moving with unanimous consent. They are running out of time before recess if anyone forces cloture votes.
Isn't the Senate obligated by law to vote on it?
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Old 12th March 2019, 07:03 AM   #478
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Isn't the Senate obligated by law to vote on it?
As far as I understand, the Majority Leader's Office controls the floor/calendar.
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Old 12th March 2019, 11:59 AM   #479
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Isn't the Senate obligated by law to vote on it?
Yes, one provision in the National Emergencies Act is that the Senate must vote on the disapproval bill within 18 days (or the House would, if the Senate had passed the original bill). McConnell can't kill it without a vote.
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:20 PM   #480
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
How is everyone doing during this time of National Emergency? I'm fine. Still hunkered down in the basement with plenty of food, water and bullets stocked. No brown horde is going to rape, murder or spread smallpox in my house!

I wonder if I could get a few of them to do some cleaning while they're here. My place sure needs it.

Maybe some yard work, too.
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