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Tags border walls , donald trump , immigration issues , Trump controversies

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Old 15th July 2019, 07:37 AM   #1281
Armitage72
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Actually, no, an asylum claim puts everything on hold while it's evaluated (in theory, anyway). With the current situation it's a bit of a catch-22; asylum can only be claimed from inside the border, but they aren't letting asylum seekers in to try and claim it, forcing them to come in illegally. Which the Trump ICE then uses as an excuse to detain them and separate the families.

Don't worry. Most immigrants seeking asylum will be ineligible according to a new regulation that the Trump administration filed on Friday and which goes into effect on Tuesday.

Quote:
The Trump administration filed a regulation Monday that could dramatically limit the ability of Central American migrants to claim asylum if they enter the United States by land through Mexico, according to a document filed by the Departments of Justice and Homeland Security in the Federal Register.

"Pursuant to statutory authority, the Departments are amending their respective regulations to provide that, with limited exceptions, an alien who enters or attempts to enter the United States across the southern border after failing to apply for protection in a third country outside the alien's country of citizenship, nationality, or last lawful habitual residence through which the alien transited en route to the United States is ineligible for asylum," the document reads.
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Old 15th July 2019, 10:53 AM   #1282
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
Don't worry. Most immigrants seeking asylum will be ineligible according to a new regulation that the Trump administration filed on Friday and which goes into effect on Tuesday.
Things like this are why I can't help but laugh in the faces of the closeted portion of Trump's white-nationalist base who repeatedly tries to claim they're not anti-immigration, "it just has to be done legally". The president is actively attempting to remove all avenues of legal immigration to the US for non-whites.

I figured a step like this was coming as soon as the lie that asylum applicants "need to come through ports of entry" started gaining legs in his defenders' talking points.
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Old 15th July 2019, 11:17 AM   #1283
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You can't apply for asylum here unless you've already applied for asylum in another country first.

No doubt followed by either "They granted you asylum? Why didn't you stay there? Seems suspicious to me. Application denied!" or "They turned you down? Why? Seems suspicious to me. They clearly thought you were an undesirable. Application denied!"
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Old 15th July 2019, 01:22 PM   #1284
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Things like this are why I can't help but laugh in the faces of the closeted portion of Trump's white-nationalist base who repeatedly tries to claim they're not anti-immigration, "it just has to be done legally". The president is actively attempting to remove all avenues of legal immigration to the US for non-whites.

I figured a step like this was coming as soon as the lie that asylum applicants "need to come through ports of entry" started gaining legs in his defenders' talking points.

Bull. Most people who immigrated to this country did not claim asylum. My ex-wife didn't and she's from Brazil. She came here legally, was medically tested and cleared, had a job awaiting her and learned English before she came. That is an immigrant. She is now a citizen.

Asylum has become the new loop-hole that allows thousands to stream in, and many claim it for no proper reason. "Let's claim asylum, they have to let us in!"

Quote:
Since 1980, the U.S. has taken in 3 million of the more than 4 million refugees resettled worldwide. But in 2017, the U.S. resettled 33,000 refugees, the country's lowest total since the years following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and a steep drop from 2016, when it resettled about 97,000.
3 million in almost 40 years. That's 75,000 per year avg. Four times more than the rest of the world combined.

We are now on pace to have over 1,000,000 illegals cross our border this year alone. How many are claiming refugee status? And this doesn't count the millions trying to get in legally and other refugees who don't come across the Mexican border!

What a scam!

ETA:
Think people - why would a government want this to continue as it has? Why do they try so hard to convince us that it's what we need to do? Do you really think it's compassion from our politicians? Total con job.
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Last edited by mgidm86; 15th July 2019 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 15th July 2019, 01:29 PM   #1285
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Bull. Most people who immigrated to this country did not claim asylum. My ex-wife didn't and she's from Brazil. She came here legally, was medically tested and cleared, had a job awaiting her and learned English before she came. That is an immigrant. She is now a citizen.

Asylum has become the new loop-hole that allows thousands to stream in, and many claim it for no proper reason. "Let's claim asylum, they have to let us in!"



3 million in almost 40 years. That's 75,000 per year avg. Four times more than the rest of the world combined.

We are now on pace to have over 1,000,000 illegals cross our border this year alone. How many are claiming refugee status? And this doesn't count the millions trying to get in legally and other refugees who don't come across the Mexican border!

What a scam!
People currently fleeing Central America have had their lives threatened. They aren't just coming here for housekeeping jobs.

And the US is responsible for the economic and political disasters in those countries.

Many of them are coming here because they have family here, willing to sponsor them.

Why are you convinced they are bad people?
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Old 15th July 2019, 01:36 PM   #1286
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
We are now on pace to have over 1,000,000 illegals cross our border this year alone.

You were talking about asylum seekers and then switched to "illegals". What's the connection?


And can you substantiate that number? And can you explain why such a relatively low number (compared to prior years) has suddenly become a problem?
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Old 15th July 2019, 01:40 PM   #1287
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It is supremely naive to assume that laws will stop migration.
Migration is something that needs to be managed, or the migrants will manage it themselves.
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Old 16th July 2019, 12:18 AM   #1288
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For what reason do people seek asylum? From what I understand, it's due to the feeling of danger of staying in their country. Why should we expect people to stay where they feel unsafe while they await months/years for an asylum confirmation? Do we really need to be sending people permission papers to enter the USA after they've already been murdered while awaiting those papers?
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Old 16th July 2019, 11:33 AM   #1289
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I find it...somewhat curious...that we refer to "asylum seekers" in the US. But call these people "refugees" when they are found elsewhere in the world.
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Old 16th July 2019, 03:56 PM   #1290
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
I find it...somewhat curious...that we refer to "asylum seekers" in the US. But call these people "refugees" when they are found elsewhere in the world.
That's a distinction made in law. The Immigration and Nationality Act defines asylum seekers as people who request asylum in the US or a port of entry. Refugees apply for that status outside the US. I used to be in the biz, a long time ago.
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Old 16th July 2019, 04:57 PM   #1291
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
Don't worry. Most immigrants seeking asylum will be ineligible according to a new regulation that the Trump administration filed on Friday and which goes into effect on Tuesday.
That's going to get killed in the courts. The quoted bit contradicts the law. The Executive can only amend 8 CFR in compliance with Title 8 of the US Code. What Congress approved and a president signed cannot be taken away unless by act of Congress.
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Old 16th July 2019, 05:29 PM   #1292
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
You were talking about asylum seekers and then switched to "illegals". What's the connection?
They entered the country illegally.
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Old 16th July 2019, 05:31 PM   #1293
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
This smacks heavily of SS-Oberst-Gruppenführer Miller.
Jewish Nazis huh?

Hey Benjamin, tell Herschel the Wannsee Conference is going to be held at the synagogue this year.

This place has lost it.
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Old 16th July 2019, 06:53 PM   #1294
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Jewish Nazis huh?

Hey Benjamin, tell Herschel the Wannsee Conference is going to be held at the synagogue this year.

This place has lost it.
Oh a Jewish joke with no understanding of what is going on! Good one!

Quote:
Even those close to Miller have made the same observation. Miller's own uncle has said his draconian policies would have doomed their Jewish refugee ancestors to death in pogroms. And actual neo-Nazis see him as advancing their goals: Andrew Anglin of the neo-Nazi website Daily Stormer called Miller "the last person in the White House that has any sense," referring specifically to Miller's anti-immigrant agenda. That's been apparent to those who have worked with him, as well. A White House adviser, referring to images of families being split apart at the border, told Vanity Fair that "Stephen actually enjoys seeing those pictures at the border. He’s a twisted guy, the way he was raised and picked on. There’s always been a way he’s gone about this. He’s Waffen-SS."
https://www.gq.com/story/stephen-mil...te-nationalist
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Old 16th July 2019, 06:54 PM   #1295
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Neither smilies nor gq substitutes for an argument.
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:05 PM   #1296
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Neither smilies nor gq substitutes for an argument.
I realise you were only emulating your "bigly" president with your attempts at a tired and insulting racial vilification meme. I guess it's your way of admitting you actually have no argument yourself. So all you can do is insult and deny the facts.

I win.
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:08 PM   #1297
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You did not state any facts.
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:27 PM   #1298
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
They entered the country illegally.
No. You're an ultra racist seeing this through ultra racist eyes.
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:28 PM   #1299
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
No. You're an ultra racist seeing this through ultra racist eyes.
Skepticism at its finest.
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:34 PM   #1300
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Skepticism at its finest.
Science is rooted in observation.
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:42 PM   #1301
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Science is rooted in observation.
And operalizationism.
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Old 16th July 2019, 09:36 PM   #1302
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"Miller is a Jew and therefore can't be racist" is not a very good argument, is it?
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Old 17th July 2019, 04:16 PM   #1303
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
People currently fleeing Central America have had their lives threatened. They aren't just coming here for housekeeping jobs.

And the US is responsible for the economic and political disasters in those countries.

Many of them are coming here because they have family here, willing to sponsor them.

Why are you convinced they are bad people?
My understanding is the current immigration laws do not allow asylum in the case of any threat on a person's life. Rather, it has to be something governmental or systemic (not clear to me whether gang threats qualify according to current law, but that is an empirical question). My understanding is that poverty does not qualify.

Next, if the rule of law should apply to Trump, his associates, and their corruption, then it should apply to immigration. If the current law allows for asylum for anyone who feels threatened legitimately, or for economic hardship, then so be it, but if current law doesn't, then those people should not be granted legal status, or the law should be changed.

Lastly, if the U.S. is responsible for the chaos or economies in those countries from which the migrants come, then that's an argument for changing the law, and not for letting them in contrary to the law (although if it could be done through executive order legally - given a different administration, obviously - that'd be fine, too).
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Old 17th July 2019, 05:03 PM   #1304
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Skepticism at its finest.
You support Trump so any attack is fine as long as it works. No rule oh honesty or decency applies. The ends justify the means.
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Old 17th July 2019, 05:22 PM   #1305
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
My understanding is the current immigration laws do not allow asylum in the case of any threat on a person's life. Rather, it has to be something governmental or systemic (not clear to me whether gang threats qualify according to current law, but that is an empirical question). My understanding is that poverty does not qualify.

Next, if the rule of law should apply to Trump, his associates, and their corruption, then it should apply to immigration. If the current law allows for asylum for anyone who feels threatened legitimately, or for economic hardship, then so be it, but if current law doesn't, then those people should not be granted legal status, or the law should be changed.

Lastly, if the U.S. is responsible for the chaos or economies in those countries from which the migrants come, then that's an argument for changing the law, and not for letting them in contrary to the law (although if it could be done through executive order legally - given a different administration, obviously - that'd be fine, too).
An asylum request starts with a hearing. It's not up to the border guards or Trump or you or me to pass judgement.
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Old 17th July 2019, 05:59 PM   #1306
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You support Trump so any attack is fine as long as it works. No rule oh honesty or decency applies. The ends justify the means.
You are imagining things. I've never said what you're claiming I did. If you believe you have psychic abilities, check to see if the million dollar challenge is still active.
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Old 17th July 2019, 06:49 PM   #1307
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
"Miller is a Jew and therefore can't be racist" is not a very good argument, is it?
No one said this so I don't understand why you would even refute an argument no one made. That other white guy said something about someone claiming they supported Trump when no one did. It's very difficult to have a discussion when everyone is interested in arguing against an imaginary person.
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Old 17th July 2019, 09:35 PM   #1308
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
No one said this so I don't understand why you would even refute an argument no one made. That other white guy said something about someone claiming they supported Trump when no one did. It's very difficult to have a discussion when everyone is interested in arguing against an imaginary person.
you aren't imaginary and you claimed that the concept of a Jewish Nazi is ludicrous. That Miller can't be a White Nationalist because he is Jewish.

We have plenty of examples of Neo-Nazi who would never have been allowed to join the NSDAP - but not for lack of trying.
And in the case of Miller, we have testimony of his relatives saying he talks and acts like a Nazi would have.
And we have his public statements and history of helping White Nationalists.

Miller, possibly the closest political Adviser to Trump, is a White Nationalists, and Trump hasn't distanced himself from it.
But given Trump's recent open displays of racism, that isn't surprising.
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Old 17th July 2019, 09:49 PM   #1309
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How the asylum seeker arrived in the US is not relevant to the laws concerning them. Read them, there's nothing there.
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Old 18th July 2019, 07:40 AM   #1310
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
An asylum request starts with a hearing. It's not up to the border guards or Trump or you or me to pass judgement.
Agreed.
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Old 18th July 2019, 05:27 PM   #1311
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
you aren't imaginary and you claimed that the concept of a Jewish Nazi is ludicrous. That Miller can't be a White Nationalist because he is Jewish.

We have plenty of examples of Neo-Nazi who would never have been allowed to join the NSDAP - but not for lack of trying.
And in the case of Miller, we have testimony of his relatives saying he talks and acts like a Nazi would have.
And we have his public statements and history of helping White Nationalists.

Miller, possibly the closest political Adviser to Trump, is a White Nationalists, and Trump hasn't distanced himself from it.
But given Trump's recent open displays of racism, that isn't surprising.
First you said racist, now you're saying white nationalist. Neither of which I even mentioned. You're all over the place. Get your thoughts together before replying to me.
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Old 18th July 2019, 09:10 PM   #1312
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
First you said racist, now you're saying white nationalist. Neither of which I even mentioned. You're all over the place. Get your thoughts together before replying to me.
Which do you disagree with?
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Old 18th July 2019, 09:19 PM   #1313
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
First you said racist, now you're saying white nationalist. Neither of which I even mentioned. You're all over the place. Get your thoughts together before replying to me.
You can't be a White Nationalist without being a racist.
Pretending otherwise doesn't make it so.
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Old 19th July 2019, 12:28 PM   #1314
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I'm shocked -shocked!- to find agricultural labor shortages here...

https://www.fb.org/viewpoints/anothe...abor-shortages
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Old 19th July 2019, 01:43 PM   #1315
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I'm shocked -shocked!- to find agricultural labor shortages here...

https://www.fb.org/viewpoints/anothe...abor-shortages

Maybe the agriculture industry has been riding the cheap labor gravy train for too long?

Maybe they're tired of working like slaves? You do know that agricultural jobs are nowhere near the top of the list of industries illegals participate in?

Try:
service
construction
production
then way at the bottom - agriculture.

The list:
https://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/03/...grant-workers/

Illegals are movin' on up!
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Old 19th July 2019, 06:52 PM   #1316
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Maybe the agriculture industry has been riding the cheap labor gravy train for too long?

Maybe they're tired of working like slaves? You do know that agricultural jobs are nowhere near the top of the list of industries illegals participate in?

Try:
service
construction
production
then way at the bottom - agriculture.

The list:
https://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/03/...grant-workers/

Illegals are movin' on up!
Perhaps you could explain the chart to those of us incapable of working it out? Here's the chart.

https://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/03/...ony-report-04/

'Cuz that's the one you're referring to as showing Agriculture "at the bottom". Methinks you do not quite understand the contents of your link. Immediately below that chart, they show Agriculture as leading in another measure.

Statistics... who thought they'd be so complicated?
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:36 PM   #1317
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I'm shocked -shocked!- to find agricultural labor shortages here...

https://www.fb.org/viewpoints/anothe...abor-shortages
That is so worth sharing.
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Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
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Old 20th July 2019, 05:37 AM   #1318
jimbob
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Maybe the agriculture industry has been riding the cheap labor gravy train for too long?

Maybe they're tired of working like slaves? You do know that agricultural jobs are nowhere near the top of the list of industries illegals participate in?

Try:
service
construction
production
then way at the bottom - agriculture.

The list:
https://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/03/...grant-workers/

Illegals are movin' on up!
No, but it is the industry which has the highest proportion of illegal immigrant workers, at 16%.

https://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/03/...ony-report-05/
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OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 20th July 2019, 06:42 AM   #1319
Delphic Oracle
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Maybe the agriculture industry has been riding the cheap labor gravy train for too long?

Maybe they're tired of working like slaves? You do know that agricultural jobs are nowhere near the top of the list of industries illegals participate in?

Try:
service
construction
production
then way at the bottom - agriculture.

The list:
https://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/03/...grant-workers/

Illegals are movin' on up!
Others have pointed out the flaws in the bare numbers, but the analysis is also important. Agriculture is the most migratory/seasonal-based of these. It's basically the entry-level job. Not only for basic income, but to pick up the social knowledge of how to survive undocumented and therefore move into more stable trades.
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Old 20th July 2019, 03:39 PM   #1320
Baylor
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
You can't be a White Nationalist without being a racist.
Pretending otherwise doesn't make it so.
Neither of which characterization I did or did not attribute to Miller. So keep having a conversation with yourself I find it strangely amusing.
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