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23rd January 2017, 02:44 PM | #521 |
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23rd January 2017, 02:45 PM | #522 |
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23rd January 2017, 02:45 PM | #523 |
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23rd January 2017, 02:47 PM | #524 |
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Great. 15 stories + a mechanical penthouse. If it were 42 m tall, that means it was about 2.5 m per story (plus ~3-5 m for that large mechanical penthouse), which seems to be consistent with construction in parts of Europe (which is likely what the Iranians would have emulated at the time). So can you make a point now?
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23rd January 2017, 02:50 PM | #525 |
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23rd January 2017, 02:51 PM | #526 |
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23rd January 2017, 02:53 PM | #527 |
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"Roof 42.0 m (138 ft)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasco_Building
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23rd January 2017, 02:55 PM | #528 |
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That doesn't say roofline and is at best ambiguous. The top of that large mechanical penthouse is also a roof.
But, you know what, fine. Who cares? Let's stipulate for the purposes of whatever argument you are planning on making that the roofline was 42m and the penthouse stood taller than that still. |
23rd January 2017, 02:57 PM | #529 |
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23rd January 2017, 02:58 PM | #530 |
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23rd January 2017, 02:59 PM | #531 |
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You didn't provide a quote that said the roofline was 42m. You provided one that said the roof was, which is at best ambiguous as to whether it refers to the top of the sizable mechanical penthouse that tops the building.
But, again, I don't care. We both know you either have no point or a very stupid one, so let's just get to it. I'm willing to stipulate for whatever argument you want to make that the roofline was 42 m. |
23rd January 2017, 03:00 PM | #532 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:01 PM | #533 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:02 PM | #534 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:03 PM | #535 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:04 PM | #536 |
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Why do you ignore your own source that says the building was 17 floors?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasco_Building |
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:04 PM | #537 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:04 PM | #538 |
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Wrong, WTC 1, and 2 collapsed that morning due to fire. Plus steel building all over the world have failed in fire. CD is a fantasy born in ignorance, paranoia, and the need for some crazy undefined conspiracy with no evidence.
ae911t liars have to say this is CD, it has many of the characteristics of WTC 7 during the event which ae911t liars call evidence, but it is big talk based on BS. The unprecedented event is building failure due to thermal expansion, or some might say thermal expansion leading to failure during cooling. However, thermal expansion is the theory of the universe. NIST has a probable cause, and so far all rational engineers who have not gone nuts on 9/11, say it was fire. ae911t have less than 0.1 percent of all engineers signing a petition, and they don't have any evidence for CD, and there is not much evidence out there what those fringe few gullible (to sign the petition of woo) engineers believe anyway. Steel fails quickly in fire, ae911t have no clue. |
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23rd January 2017, 03:05 PM | #539 |
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Sure, getting the exact number of levels, and what was on each one(a matter completely overlooked thus far) would be important in developing a full report on this fire and collapse. In simply discussing the collapse online on a forum such as this, with no official report to speak to, it is slightly more significant than getting the date correct. It is much less significant in determining what caused the collapse in an official report , and even less so in an internet discussion, and even less significant is how many basement levels there were.
, further down in significance wrt to the Plasco collapse, is what Sunder said many years ago when speaking about the WTC structures. |
23rd January 2017, 03:06 PM | #540 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:07 PM | #541 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:08 PM | #542 |
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Yes, it is important to get the height and the storey count correct - this was disputed on this thread earlier by DGM for example. And the contents of the building may have been overlooked here, but they are already forming part of the narrative as far as Iranian concerns regarding the collapse go.
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23rd January 2017, 03:10 PM | #543 |
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First off, you might want to check what the word precedented means. Nothing can change the fact that, at the time, the collapse of WTC 7 was unprecedented.
Second off, what exact meaning do you intend to draw from the quote? Do you really mean to say that, because Sunder said that quote and because the building lacks that somehow critical 16th story, that neither you nor anyone else can draw parallels between the collapse of the Plasco building and WTC7; whereas, if he had not said that quote or if the building had one more story, we would be able to draw such parallels? |
23rd January 2017, 03:10 PM | #544 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:11 PM | #545 |
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Is THAT the whole thrust of your bugaboo about the number of storeys?
Is your entire reason for bogging down discussion with a whine about how tall the building is, to have the WTC collapses remain unprecedented and thus by paranoid extension, suspicious? Is that it? |
23rd January 2017, 03:13 PM | #546 |
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It remains that case that no such event preceded it. There were no similar collapses before it, and no matter how many buildings burn down after it, none of them will have been before it. Yes. You are very clear about that. All subsequent events are after it. None can be a precedent to it. It can only ever be unprecedented.
Like Apollo 11, no future moon landing will ever be a precedent to that. |
23rd January 2017, 03:13 PM | #547 |
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As you just said yourself, the height and storey count are important.
ETA it is not my thrust that has bogged the thread down, it is the unwillingness to accept reality amongst the people here that has. My position remains as it was. Does anyone still claim that this was a 17 storey building ? |
23rd January 2017, 03:15 PM | #548 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:16 PM | #549 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:17 PM | #550 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:19 PM | #551 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:21 PM | #552 |
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:23 PM | #553 |
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You need to look up "unprecedented" and perhaps "tautology" too. Unprecedented means there was never an example of the thing before itself. So saying it's still unprecedented doesn't add any meaning. It's like telling us Neil Armstrong was the first man on the moon and then insisting he is still the first man on the moon.
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23rd January 2017, 03:26 PM | #554 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:26 PM | #555 |
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Because it is standard for conspiracy theorists to just cherry pick a source for items that support their position and ignore anything else from that source.
Apollo Conspiracists say NASA lies about everything but they will still use NASA as a source if they find something they think supports their conspiracy. Same with 9/11 loons, they say FEMa and NIST are part of the conspiracy but will use their data if it supports them. |
23rd January 2017, 03:27 PM | #556 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:30 PM | #557 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:30 PM | #558 |
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23rd January 2017, 03:31 PM | #559 |
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If we really wanted to tie him in knots, we could point out that a building that is comprised of 15 stories with a mechanical penthouse on top of such stories is over 15 stories tall. But I'm sure that would just lead to another 3 pages of pointless garbage. I find when you actual boil down to the logic of the point, it ends these conversations much more quickly. If he believes that the one additional story matters so much that its absence renders comparison between the building's collapse and that of WTC 7 impossible, then let him articulate exactly why. If his reason is "because Sunder said so", that's a pretty stupid reason.
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23rd January 2017, 03:31 PM | #560 |
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