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Old 23rd January 2017, 06:39 PM   #601
rwguinn
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
The point is Shyam Sunder's statement that NIST were not aware of a building collapsing primarily due to fire that was over 15 storeys. This means that WTC7 remains an alleged "unprecedented" event.
Well, Duh
Quote:
un·prec·e·dent·ed
[uhn- pres-i-den-tid]
ADJECTIVE
1.
without previous instance; never before known or experienced; unexampled or unparalleled: an unprecedented event.
Since it was the FIRST, it will always be unprecedented
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Old 23rd January 2017, 06:54 PM   #602
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
Well, Duh

Since it was the FIRST, it will always be unprecedented
He still hasn't explained why any of it is relevant to what happened in Tehran. 10 pages of people chasing him down Rabbit holes and he is no closer to getting to the point.

Of course, when the objective is to keep the conversation spinning in circles instead of moving the project forward,...
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Old 23rd January 2017, 07:20 PM   #603
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I'd agree to settle on 15.5 floors storeys.

Last edited by pgimeno; 23rd January 2017 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 07:35 PM   #604
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Wow, 16 pages?

Okay, if you're just tuning in:

A&E911 Truth: "No steel framed building as ever collapsed due to fire.

Plasco Building: "Hold my beer"

A&E911 Truth: Inside job/CD/didn't happen the way it happened.

Now you're caught up. Carry on.

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Old 23rd January 2017, 07:35 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Mezzanine is the word isn't it?
bingo
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Old 23rd January 2017, 07:44 PM   #606
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
As you just said yourself, the height and storey count are important.

ETA it is not my thrust that has bogged the thread down, it is the unwillingness to accept reality amongst the people here that has. My position remains as it was. Does anyone still claim that this was a 17 storey building ?
It is about important as ae911t lies born in ignornace. The claims of CD by ae911t are not important, the number of floors is not important. WTC 7 unprecedented BS claim by NIST was about thermal expansion... not about number of floors. BTW, 9/11 truth can't do math, so the number of floors is not needed for ae911t to spread lies of CD and some insane inside job.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 08:12 PM   #607
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old coarse guy
Previously yes through his office, many times. But not in this specific regard, yet.
What height do you think this building was? The CTBUH don't give a figure, but as I showed you in my link, they do state 17 storeys specifically above ground. Does 142m seem a bit low to you for this many storeys above ground ?
Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I ask again, how does it matter?
Me! Me! Me! I know!

You see, once a building becomes a "high-rise", a team of fairies flutter over it, wafting fairy dust which makes it invulnerable to collapse from fire. Since a building only becomes a high-rise when its over 15 storeys, buildings of 14 or 15 should be absolutely prohibited as a public safety measure. (Nobody would ever build a 13 storey; it's unlucky.)

Can Truther discussion get even sillier than this?
Attached Images
File Type: png fairy dust.png (4.9 KB, 125 views)
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Old 23rd January 2017, 08:36 PM   #608
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
See above.
So the response of the CTBUH was not relevant to the discussion you are pursuing here?
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Old 23rd January 2017, 08:57 PM   #609
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Originally Posted by benthamitemetric View Post
Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
When you first posted your opinion on the height and number of storeys you were asked WHY it was important. Instead of answering you made a point to simply continue on with it.

NOW, it finally comes to light why it is do very important to you. You want to have the WTC collapses remain unprecedented and thus by paranoid extension, suspicious.
Correct?
So far my deduction remains unconfirmed and undenied.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 08:58 PM   #610
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGM
It matters how?
Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
Accuracy matters in analysis.
Indeed it does, but only on matters that matter. The question as to how many storeys were beneath the top-down collapse zone of Plasco matters as little as to whether the Twin Towers were 110 storeys or 100.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 09:22 PM   #611
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog
Yeah, the forced expulsions were due to the beginning of the collapse due to a huge fire.

Not a natural cause at all!
Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
Can you explain the mechanism that you believe would violently force air out in a relatively focused way?
Gladly, Tony! As floor X collapses onto floor X-1, the volume of floor X-1. From the equation PV=nRT, the air pressure on floor X-1 increases. The pressure "finds" the weakest window on that floor and it blows out. (An overpressure of 1 psi is often enough to blow out a window.)

Maybe you in return could explain how back-blast from demolition charges wouldn't blow out every window? (We can deal with the lack of sound later.)

Quote:
By the way, these expulsions happen just before the collapse starts and throughout the entire collapse.
Indeed! You're witnessing the internal collapse of the building. The collapse of the perimeter followed. Like WTC 7!
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Old 24th January 2017, 01:25 AM   #612
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Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
Gladly, Tony! As floor X collapses onto floor X-1, the volume of floor X-1. From the equation PV=nRT, the air pressure on floor X-1 increases. The pressure "finds" the weakest window on that floor and it blows out. (An overpressure of 1 psi is often enough to blow out a window.)

Maybe you in return could explain how back-blast from demolition charges wouldn't blow out every window? (We can deal with the lack of sound later.)



Indeed! You're witnessing the internal collapse of the building. The collapse of the perimeter followed. Like WTC 7!
Directional expulsions are generally due to directional blasts, not from something which would be generating equal pressure on all sides.

The likelihood that omnidirectional overpressures inside the building would emanate in a focused way from a single area, and not at least blow out numerous windows on a given floor, is extremely low.

Another problem for your theory is the back of the building started coming down first, so it could not have been a simple pancaking event, like you are speculating, with dropping floor slabs generating an overpressure. The back coming down first also causes problems for your weakest window theory, as there were expulsions on the other faces after the back of the building had already started falling.

Last edited by Tony Szamboti; 24th January 2017 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 24th January 2017, 01:41 AM   #613
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Therefore, CD.

/facepalm
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Old 24th January 2017, 01:54 AM   #614
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Whether a floor dropped symmetrically or not doesn't seem to me to change the fact that the volume of air under it has to get out of its way quickly. This just looks like bluster to me.
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Old 24th January 2017, 02:10 AM   #615
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Whether a floor dropped symmetrically or not doesn't seem to me to change the fact that the volume of air under it has to get out of its way quickly. This just looks like bluster to me.
The air would get out of the way quickly, in all directions, if it were due to a floor slab falling onto another.

The likelihood of this omin-directional overpressure then only blowing out one window on a floor with about 40 of them is extremely unlikely and points to something else generating a directional blast.
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Old 24th January 2017, 02:15 AM   #616
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
The air would get out of the way quickly, in all directions, if it were due to a floor slab falling onto another.

The likelihood of this omin-directional overpressure then only blowing out one window on a floor with about 40 of them is extremely unlikely and points to something else generating a directional blast.
Holy moly. You just keep on embarrassing yourself. What a travesty.
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Old 24th January 2017, 02:18 AM   #617
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Was it only one window? Was it (were they) already broken?
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Old 24th January 2017, 02:54 AM   #618
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
The air would get out of the way quickly, in all directions, if it were due to a floor slab falling onto another.

The air would be ejected down through stairwells, elevator shafts, windows, air vents, etc. Which side of the building did the collapse sequence begin? In the following video, beginning at timeline; 0:04, you can follow the internal collapse of the floors by observing the ejections of compressed air.

At timeline 1:29, do you see the sky through the windows as the building tilts?


The Collapse Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov9Q9RME4PM

.

Last edited by skyeagle409; 24th January 2017 at 02:55 AM.
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Old 24th January 2017, 03:19 AM   #619
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
The air would get out of the way quickly, in all directions, if it were due to a floor slab falling onto another.

Which side of the building did the collapse sequence begin? Can we safely assume there were air-blocking walls separating the section of the building where the collapse first occurred?

.

Last edited by skyeagle409; 24th January 2017 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 24th January 2017, 03:24 AM   #620
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
The first clip in that compilation (the one where the guy flings his arms up in despair) is the only one i've seen showing the East side of the tower and the mall. That's the side which Old Coarse Guy is currently excited about due to the damage (?) shown at the base of the tower in an aerial photo. Unfortunately there are tree branches partly obscuring it and the camera zooms in after a fraction of a second. If there was a little more preceding that footage, showing the building before the collapse started, that might be interesting to see.
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Old 24th January 2017, 03:36 AM   #621
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
The air would get out of the way quickly, in all directions, if it were due to a floor slab falling onto another.

The likelihood of this omin-directional overpressure then only blowing out one window on a floor with about 40 of them is extremely unlikely and points to something else generating a directional blast.
Air is a compressible fluid and will follow the path of least resistance, to movement.

The air flows direction will be determined by the way the waves and Containment dirrect it, as well as any heating from combusting soot in the collapses.

Why should carbon soot fuel air blasts even be the least relevant when it is known that combustible gasez, as well as highly combustible black carbons are being produced in the fire?

When can we send you a ticket too Iran so you can take it up with the Iranian Supreme leader himself?

Someone please quote this to make sure Tony sees it.
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Old 24th January 2017, 03:45 AM   #622
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Get aboard the merry-go-round for *********** idiots.............


Tehran Plasco Building Collapse: Explosives Must Be Investigated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MgJTa7SDaY


From ae911truth :-


Quote:
Here, six separate videos we have compiled (https://youtu.be/_MgJTa7SDaY) show what appear to be—and in some cases sound like—explosions emanating from the tower in sequential patterns as it began to crumble. The building’s tumultuous fall is then accompanied by thick, energetic, rapidly forming plumes that are reminiscent of what we see in controlled demolitions.
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Old 24th January 2017, 03:50 AM   #623
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Air is a compressible fluid and will follow the path of least resistance, to movement.

The air flows direction will be determined by the way the waves and Containment dirrect it, as well as any heating from combusting soot in the collapses.

Why should carbon soot fuel air blasts even be the least relevant when it is known that combustible gasez, as well as highly combustible black carbons are being produced in the fire?

When can we send you a ticket too Iran so you can take it up with the Iranian Supreme leader himself?

Someone please quote this to make sure Tony sees it.

Pleasure :=]
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Old 24th January 2017, 03:53 AM   #624
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Originally Posted by CompusMentus View Post
Get aboard the merry-go-round for *********** idiots.............


Tehran Plasco Building Collapse: Explosives Must Be Investigated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MgJTa7SDaY


From ae911truth :-
We should give a speach at the UN, demanding Iran investigation for explosives in the building.
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Old 24th January 2017, 05:06 AM   #625
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
The air would get out of the way quickly, in all directions, if it were due to a floor slab falling onto another.

The likelihood of this omin-directional overpressure then only blowing out one window on a floor with about 40 of them is extremely unlikely and points to something else generating a directional blast.
You have never worked with air applications, apparently.
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Old 24th January 2017, 05:40 AM   #626
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
You have never worked with air applications, apparently.
It is apparent he has never actually worked as an engineer, just claims to be one.
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Old 24th January 2017, 05:47 AM   #627
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
Directional expulsions are generally due to directional blasts, not from something which would be generating equal pressure on all sides.
You're assuming, as always, a vastly over-simplified scenario. If a floor descends, perfectly level and undamaged, upon another floor, then equal pressure on all sides might be expected. Any departure from that impossible ideal - for example, any deformation or breakage of the floor as it falls, which is in effect inevitable, or even the existence of internal walls which will perturb the movement of air as they collapse - will lead to pressure differentials from place to place, and wherever the highest pressure finds a weak enough window there'll be a local failure.

Dave
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Old 24th January 2017, 06:21 AM   #628
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
You're assuming, as always, a vastly over-simplified scenario. If a floor descends, perfectly level and undamaged, upon another floor, then equal pressure on all sides might be expected. Any departure from that impossible ideal - for example, any deformation or breakage of the floor as it falls, which is in effect inevitable, or even the existence of internal walls which will perturb the movement of air as they collapse - will lead to pressure differentials from place to place, and wherever the highest pressure finds a weak enough window there'll be a local failure.

Dave
Hey now, don't confuse the man with facts and logic. He's busy rationalizing.
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Old 24th January 2017, 06:49 AM   #629
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
You're assuming, as always, a vastly over-simplified scenario. If a floor descends, perfectly level and undamaged, upon another floor, then equal pressure on all sides might be expected. Any departure from that impossible ideal - for example, any deformation or breakage of the floor as it falls, which is in effect inevitable, or even the existence of internal walls which will perturb the movement of air as they collapse - will lead to pressure differentials from place to place, and wherever the highest pressure finds a weak enough window there'll be a local failure.
Which in turn will relieve the pressure, making less likely for adjacent windows to blow.

By contrast, when an explosive blows windows, the shock wave usually blows several windows at a time.

Therefore, the lack of other windows blown is actually an indication that no explosives were involved.
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Old 24th January 2017, 06:51 AM   #630
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Which in turn will relieve the pressure, making less likely for adjacent windows to blow.

By contrast, when an explosive blows windows, the shock wave usually blows several windows at a time.

Therefore, the lack of other windows blown is actually an indication that no explosives were involved.
Exactly.
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Old 24th January 2017, 06:52 AM   #631
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
The air would get out of the way quickly, in all directions, if it were due to a floor slab falling onto another.
Sure it would
IF
the slab came down horizontally and not tilted in any way
Quote:
The likelihood of this omin-directional overpressure then only blowing out one window on a floor with about 40 of them is extremely unlikely and points to something else generating a directional blast.
You expect that a directional explosive would generate a focused overpressure on ONE window and not multiple adjacent windows? Maybe, if the explosive is close to the window, but then the vibration through the structure would likely shatter multiple windows.
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Old 24th January 2017, 08:57 AM   #632
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
I'd agree to settle on 15.5 floors storeys.
In my honor, I will agree to 16.5 "levels."
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Old 24th January 2017, 11:38 AM   #633
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Old 24th January 2017, 11:50 AM   #634
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgimeno
I'd agree to settle on 15.5 floors storeys.
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
In my honor, I will agree to 16.5 "levels."

Lets make it 5π levels.
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Old 24th January 2017, 11:54 AM   #635
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I have been offline for 2 weeks.

Has Tony yet explained why there are no awesomely, insanely loud BANG!! BANG!! BANG!! BANG!! BANG!! BANG!! sounds immediately prior to collapse onset, even in the videos taken danerously close to the collapsing building?
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Old 24th January 2017, 11:58 AM   #636
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
You expect that a directional explosive would generate a focused overpressure on ONE window and not multiple adjacent windows? Maybe, if the explosive is close to the window, but then the vibration through the structure would likely shatter multiple windows.
You don't get it! The evil perps installed silent explosives suc hthat their blasts were directed at the open windows because ... uhm ... reasons so evil we couldn't fathom them!
Also, just to confuse you, they made the blasts blow steadily, for extra dramatic effect!
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Old 24th January 2017, 12:30 PM   #637
LSSBB
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Why am I picturing now AE911T staffers huddled in a basement with ears plugs and eyes closed now?

Mass psychosis, leading to feverish alternate fact fabrication.
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Old 24th January 2017, 01:51 PM   #638
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
It doesn't matter to you that they got it wrong? Doesn't it make you less confident that what they are telling you is right?
Tony,
you are certainly aware of AE911Truth's standard bulleted list of WTC collapse "features" that allegedly indicate explosive demolition.
Do they get anything wrong there?

You probably looked at their 2017 AIA resolution proposal - some 16 or so "WHEREAS" clauses. Are they all correct and relevant, or did you spot anything wrong in them?

If you spotted anything wrong - doesn't it make you less confident that what else they are telling you is right?
If you spotted nothing wrong - then perhaps you are game discussing the veracity of their claims in a 1-on-1 setting at this other forum?
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Old 24th January 2017, 01:53 PM   #639
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his entire thread is so typical of JREF. There is one side that will say it is controlled demolition and another side saying there was absolutely no controlled demolition. What is for sure is that nobody on this forum has the full set of facts yet that does prevent the posting of opinions as facts. This thread was started on the 19th of January and lines were already drawn.

The fact that Debunkers were ridiculing CD people or that CD people were slamming the Debunkers so quickly shows a complete lack of self discipline and the lack of desire to obtain facts. This demonstration illustrates the sophomoric reasoning within both camps and completely destroys credibility.
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Old 24th January 2017, 02:08 PM   #640
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Originally Posted by No Other View Post
his entire thread is so typical of JREF. There is one side that will say it is controlled demolition and another side saying there was absolutely no controlled demolition. What is for sure is that nobody on this forum has the full set of facts yet that does prevent the posting of opinions as facts. This thread was started on the 19th of January and lines were already drawn.

The fact that Debunkers were ridiculing CD people or that CD people were slamming the Debunkers so quickly shows a complete lack of self discipline and the lack of desire to obtain facts. This demonstration illustrates the sophomoric reasoning within both camps and completely destroys credibility.
Personally, I haven't expressed an opinion on the cause of the building's demise yet. But it took me 8 pages to get these guys to admit that the building didn't have 17 above ground storeys. Says it all really.
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