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Old 24th January 2017, 03:41 PM   #681
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
It is not a confrontation that you will walk away from looking good.
As for this idle threat, bring it on.

BTW. have you looked up the meaning of the word "precedent" yet?
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Old 24th January 2017, 03:51 PM   #682
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
Well, not according to how the CTBUH sets out it's criteria for reaching these values, which is what I have requested they clarify. By their own standard the building should be at least 17m or so taller, maybe more if it was indeed 17 storeys above ground as they say (which it clearly is not).
Given that this was lauded as Tehran's tallest building when completed, I am surprised that I have not been able to find a book or a publicly available record from back then which states this explicitly. Hence my request to them.
AE911truth has stated that the Plasco building was 17 stories and a high-rise. So that’s that.
What's next.

“At approximately 11: 30 AM local time yesterday in Tehran, an iconic 17-storyhigh-rise known as the Plasco Building tragically collapsed after being on fire for some 3 ½ hours.”
http://www.ae911truth.org/images/PDF...20_2017_v2.pdf
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Old 24th January 2017, 03:52 PM   #683
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Only speaking for myself, I would have said "For the purpose of discussion I totally agree with whatever height you want it to be."

Now we are at a couple of additional posts and I'm still trying to get you to say what your point is:
yeah. that's already been tried. still no point.
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Old 24th January 2017, 03:54 PM   #684
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For anyone who IS interested in a constructive discussion, there seems to have been issues separate from the fire higher in the building, at the lower SW corner, where you can see the firefighters have entered. There is definitely structural damage, and you can see hose laid out in typical firefighting fashion. The internal picture (which I can't find the link for now, but have saved) I think shows the part of the mall where the tower is tied in and the damage internally. I am trying currently to establish the validity of reports of firefighters on the 3rd floor, and exactly what the cause of the damage at that point of the building was.
This is distant from the fires in the upper storeys and there does not appear to be much smoke/fire damage in the picture taken from the inside. Certainly I have no hesitation in admitting that this damage is raising suspicion in my mind at the moment until I can establish exactly what the cause was. There was no natural gas etc in this building, so I have ruled that out.
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Old 24th January 2017, 03:56 PM   #685
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Originally Posted by BasqueArch View Post
AE911truth has stated that the Plasco building was 17 stories and a high-rise. So that’s that.
What's next.

“At approximately 11: 30 AM local time yesterday in Tehran, an iconic 17-storyhigh-rise known as the Plasco Building tragically collapsed after being on fire for some 3 ½ hours.”
http://www.ae911truth.org/images/PDF...20_2017_v2.pdf
I don't speak for ae911truth.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:00 PM   #686
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
I don't speak for ae911truth.
So they are wrong then.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:04 PM   #687
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Originally Posted by BasqueArch View Post
So they are wrong then.
If they specified that it was 17 Storeys "ABOVE GROUND" like the CTBUH do, they they are also wrong yes.

ETA I just checked, ae911truth just say 17 storeys, not specifically above ground, so I would say that they are correct.

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Old 24th January 2017, 04:05 PM   #688
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
Well, not according to how the CTBUH sets out it's criteria for reaching these values, which is what I have requested they clarify. By their own standard the building should be at least 17m or so taller, maybe more if it was indeed 17 storeys above ground as they say (which it clearly is not).
Given that this was lauded as Tehran's tallest building when completed, I am surprised that I have not been able to find a book or a publicly available record from back then which states this explicitly. Hence my request to them.
You would have to contact the Israeli engineering firm that built the building to get those documents, as the Iranians burned much of that information during the revolution.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:06 PM   #689
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
I just checked, ae911truth just say 17 storeys, not specifically above ground, so I would say that they are correct.
Did I get you mid edit?
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:06 PM   #690
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
If they specified that it was 17 Storeys "ABOVE GROUND" like the CTBUH do, they they are also wrong yes.

ETA I just checked, ae911truth just say 17 storeys, not specifically above ground, so I would say that they are correct.
That Quote came from the president of Iran's office via the Iranian state media.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:07 PM   #691
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
You would have to contact the Israeli engineering firm that built the building to get those documents, as the Iranians burned much of that information during the revolution.
I would think that the minister who is in charge of the investigation would be hesitant to release these drawings, and as I have already stated in this thread, I do not believe that they will have them.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:07 PM   #692
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
...
ETA I should have added that the height and the storey count was something that i wanted to use the internal pictures of the vendors in the building (the material seller etc) to try to ascertain the thickness of the floor system. Do you think that is relevant or not ?
Might be completely irrelevant, depending on what pictures you are speaking of. The mall is not in the Plasco building proper (within the footprint of the 17-floor[*] highrise) but in a low building adjacent to it.





[*] 1 basement floor, 1 ground floor, 15 above ground floor, according to this Persian language article (Google translation here)
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:07 PM   #693
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
If they specified that it was 17 Storeys "ABOVE GROUND" like the CTBUH do, they they are also wrong yes.
So if they are wrong about this they are then wrong that the Towers and Plasco were CD'd.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:08 PM   #694
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
That Quote came from the president of Iran's office via the Iranian state media.
No, The CTBUH have had this building listed for a long time. You are mistaken.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:10 PM   #695
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Originally Posted by BasqueArch View Post
So if they are wrong about this they are then wrong that the Towers and Plasco were CD'd.
Non sequitur.
The building DID have 17 storeys, but only 14 above ground (15 if you include the roof) and was 43m high. This is the assumption that I am going with for now.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:12 PM   #696
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
No, The CTBUH have had this building listed for a long time. You are mistaken.
And it maters how?
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:12 PM   #697
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
Well, not according to how the CTBUH sets out it's criteria for reaching these values, which is what I have requested they clarify. By their own standard the building should be at least 17m or so taller, maybe more if it was indeed 17 storeys above ground as they say (which it clearly is not).
Given that this was lauded as Tehran's tallest building when completed, I am surprised that I have not been able to find a book or a publicly available record from back then which states this explicitly. Hence my request to them.
Is there reason to expect that newspaper records from Tehran in the 60s have all been digitized and made available to the world on the internet?

If nit then I am not surprised you cannot find it unless you have been looking in Tehran libraries.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:13 PM   #698
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
So, do you think a fire caused the building to collapse or was it something else?

So far all evidence points to fire.
We are all aware that quite often murders are committed in a house or car and it is set on fire in an attempt to obscure and cover up the true nature of the crime. If investigators did not have an autopsy performed, and simply said there was a fire and the person had to die from fire, they would not be doing their jobs.

An investigation needs to look at the possibilities and do a forensic examination. In the case of a steel framed building that would mean examining the steel before coming to a conclusion, just like a body would be autopsied, even if there was a fire where the person was found.

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Old 24th January 2017, 04:13 PM   #699
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
And it maters how?
It matters in the context of my answer to chainsaw. You should ask him, and try to engage constructively with me, if you must.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:15 PM   #700
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
Non sequitur.
The building DID have 17 storeys, but only 14 above ground (15 if you include the roof) and was 43m high. This is the assumption that I am going with for now.
Wrong.
After so many pages, you are still wrong about this!?
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:15 PM   #701
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Is there reason to expect that newspaper records from Tehran in the 60s have all been digitized and made available to the world on the internet?

If nit then I am not surprised you cannot find it unless you have been looking in Tehran libraries.
I thought there may have been a book etc that had discussed the fact that this was Tehran's tallest building, written back in those days.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:15 PM   #702
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
And it maters how?
A lot of people want to know that.

I would also like to know how it matters in a tie-in to the quote from S.Sunder.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:16 PM   #703
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
It matters in the context of my answer to chainsaw. You should ask him, and try to engage constructively with me, if you must.
I've tried. You refuse.

(it's documented in this thread)
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:16 PM   #704
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Wrong.
After so many pages, you are still wrong about this!?
And here we go again...... Sigh
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:16 PM   #705
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
No, The CTBUH have had this building listed for a long time. You are mistaken.
Yes but the mistake could have been caused by the limited information from Iran, about the building do the the chaos and Destruction of documents during the revolution.

Many government offices and state building were torched when the Islamic Revolution took place. If records are scetchy mistakes can be made and not be caught for years even decades.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:17 PM   #706
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
And here we go again...... Sigh
Indeed.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:17 PM   #707
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So, as I asked some time ago, this damage at the bottom right of the building in the bottom pic at this site here is puzzling. Does anyone have any thoughts as to the cause ?
http://footofan.com/?p=27827
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:18 PM   #708
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
I thought there may have been a book etc that had discussed the fact that this was Tehran's tallest building, written back in those days.
That's a long shot. 10-20 storey buildings are not that rare. Have a ten floor building constructed in 1967 in my town of 10K population.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:18 PM   #709
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
So, as I asked some time ago, this damage at the bottom right of the building in the bottom pic at this site here is puzzling. Does anyone have any thoughts as to the cause ?
http://footofan.com/?p=27827
I answered this. You did not however express your opinion. Why not?
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:20 PM   #710
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I answered this. You did not however express your opinion. Why not?
Could you restate your thoughts for me, to save me trolling through the 10 pages or so ?
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:20 PM   #711
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Yes but the mistake could have been caused by the limited information from Iran, about the building do the the chaos and Destruction of documents during the revolution.

Many government offices and state building were torched when the Islamic Revolution took place. If records are scetchy mistakes can be made and not be caught for years even decades.
Because in the large scheme of things it's a very minute detail.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:20 PM   #712
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
Could you restate your thoughts for me, to save me trolling through the 10 pages or so ?
No. What are your thoughts on this?
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:21 PM   #713
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
That's a long shot. 10-20 storey buildings are not that rare. Have a ten floor building constructed in 1967 in my town of 10K population.
Yes, but this was a landmark building, and the highest one in the city when constructed, so I thought there may have been something written about it at the time. I think that is reasonable.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:22 PM   #714
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
And here we go again...... Sigh
You know I believe the basement was two stories, and the authors might have included them in the total area making 17 stories total.
However not seventeen above ground.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:22 PM   #715
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
No. What are your thoughts on this?
We're done - remember telling me that a few pages back, and in other threads ? Go away and troll someone else please.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:22 PM   #716
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
Non sequitur.
The building DID have 17 storeys, but only 14 above ground (15 if you include the roof) and was 43m high. This is the assumption that I am going with for now.
So you agree it was 17 stories.
Non sequitur; like NIST left out the stiffeners on that girder therefore Controlled Demolition.

Is ae911truth also wrong about Plasco being a "high-rise"?
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:23 PM   #717
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
Yes, but this was a landmark building, and the highest one in the city when constructed, so I thought there may have been something written about it at the time. I think that is reasonable.
So is the one in my town.
No books but certainly reported on by the local newspaper, which would be found in their archives., and Canada did not have a violent revolution.
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:23 PM   #718
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
We're done - remember telling me that a few pages back, and in other threads ? Go away and troll someone else please.
People are reading what you post. I'm done is good with me.

For what it's worth. A short work day and a couple beers makes it fun to watch (coach) you into digging a hole.

(yes, it is that meaningless)
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:24 PM   #719
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
So, as I asked some time ago, this damage at the bottom right of the building in the bottom pic at this site here is puzzling. Does anyone have any thoughts as to the cause ?
http://footofan.com/?p=27827
How can you tell from the photo that there is any damage to the Plasco building in the lower right hand corner of the pic? Even if you zoom the photo to 100% size, it's too small to tell.
http://footofan.com/wp-content/uploa...9_13-19-39.jpg
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Old 24th January 2017, 04:24 PM   #720
Crazy Chainsaw
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
Yes, but this was a landmark building, and the highest one in the city when constructed, so I thought there may have been something written about it at the time. I think that is reasonable.
There was information written about it and it's builder, in Isreal, and in New York, but it was over shadowed in the news by taller buildings.
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