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Old 19th February 2018, 11:51 AM   #121
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Snell blamed Arkansas governor Guy Tucker for allowing the execution to proceed on April 19th, a significant day for his people.
Then why aren't you investigating Tucker?
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Old 19th February 2018, 12:47 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
What? We KNOW that McVeigh had friends in Elohim City (the compound of survivalist white separatists co-founded by Richard Wayne Snell) such as Andreas Strassmeir and Stephen Colbern (who shared a P.O. Box with McVeigh). The fact that McVeigh knew people in Elohim City is not a matter of contention.

Which part of this case of foreknowledge isn't working for you? Do you actually think it could've been a coincidence that, of all bombings Snell could have predicted would certainly occur, it happened to be a federal building on Oklahoma like Snell plotted to attack in 1983? According to a former close associate, THE SAME Alfred P. Murrah Building?
You have swallowed Neo-Nazi propaganda.

Tim McVeigh
Quote:
"says the conspiracy theorists are crazy, and he only ever met Andy Strassmeir once, at a gun show. He says he never visited Elohim City. He admits he telephoned the community on April 5, and asked to speak to Andy, but only because he thought that Elohim City might have been a suitable hideout for him after the bombing.

One wonders why, if this story is true, McVeigh is protecting Strassmeir - an undercover informant. Does he fear reprisals against his family if he spills the beans? Is he embarrassed that he was suckered by a federal employee? Does he want to be considered a lone wolf, a martyr?

McVeigh's aim, in blowing up the Murrah building, was to strike at the heart of the New World Order. And now conspiracy theorists are beginning to believe that the New World Order itself might have played a role in the conspiracy. McVeigh is seething about this in his death row cell. He will consequently be executed, on May 16, an unsatisfied man.
(source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...05/mcveigh.usa)

April 19th and 20th are big days in the Militia/Neo-Nazi Goon Squad world, and Snell would have claimed credit for any attack that would have occurred.

You haven't proved for-knowledge nor conspiracy, just coincidence.

The Murrah Federal Building had "Truck Bomb Me" written all over it. Park a truck with enough powerful explosives right in front and you're going to bring most of it down. Compare it to the new OKC Federal Building and you see a building designed to take a hit.

McVeigh was motived by Waco, he trained in Kingman, AZ, not Elohim City.
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Old 19th February 2018, 01:01 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
What? We KNOW that McVeigh had friends in Elohim City (the compound of survivalist white separatists co-founded by Richard Wayne Snell) such as Andreas Strassmeir and Stephen Colbern (who shared a P.O. Box with McVeigh). The fact that McVeigh knew people in Elohim City is not a matter of contention.

Which part of this case of foreknowledge isn't working for you? Do you actually think it could've been a coincidence that, of all bombings Snell could have predicted would certainly occur, it happened to be a federal building on Oklahoma like Snell plotted to attack in 1983? According to a former close associate, THE SAME Alfred P. Murrah Building?
You are faced with a couple of problems.

The first is that before Snell cooked up a plan to attack the MFB (that wasn't carried out) the scumbag William Pierce had already written The Turner Diaries where the white power mental defective characters destroy the F.B.I. building with a truck bomb - and TM was infatuated with it - so there goes the connection with anything Snell cooked up.

The second problem is that you are playing connect the dots to fit your pov. As I've posted, it's entirely reasonable to believe that TM et all may have talked to people about his plans and that somebody informed Snell that a little bird told them...and that doesn't mean that Snell was any party to the actual planing and execution of TM's plan.
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Old 19th February 2018, 03:54 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
You are faced with a couple of problems.

The first is that before Snell cooked up a plan to attack the MFB (that wasn't carried out) the scumbag William Pierce had already written The Turner Diaries where the white power mental defective characters destroy the F.B.I. building with a truck bomb - and TM was infatuated with it - so there goes the connection with anything Snell cooked up.
That was A federal building in A fictional novel. Not THE same building Snell targeted, not a federal building in Oklahoma. I'm not denying the Turner Diaries inspiration in the attack (I think the bomb was detonated at almost the same exact time the bomb was detonated in the novel), but you're trying to find an innocent explanation for a happenstance too big to be coincidence.

Quote:
The second problem is that you are playing connect the dots to fit your pov. As I've posted, it's entirely reasonable to believe that TM et all may have talked to people about his plans and that somebody informed Snell that a little bird told them...and that doesn't mean that Snell was any party to the actual planing and execution of TM's plan.
At least it's a start?

Last edited by MicahJava; 19th February 2018 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 19th February 2018, 04:00 PM   #125
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Pack-of-wolves stuff with the Oklahoma City Bombing is a much lighter conspiracy theory. For one, most of the documented evidence appeared in court and mainstream news reports. You know it's bad when even the mainstream news never really bought the official story.
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Old 19th February 2018, 05:10 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
That was A federal building in A fictional novel. Not THE same building Snell targeted, not a federal building in Oklahoma. I'm not denying the Turner Diaries inspiration in the attack (I think the bomb was detonated at almost the same exact time the bomb was detonated in the novel), but you're trying to find an innocent explanation for a happenstance too big to be coincidence.



At least it's a start?
Lowlifes and braggadocio go along like Ctists and scientific and technical ignorance. One known associate of TM, Michael Fortier, was had prior knowledge of TM's plan and ended up cutting a plea deal where he was sentenced to 12 years and acted as a cooperating witness in TM's and Terry Nichols prosecutions. That fact proves that TM et al were talking about their plan. It's reasonable to believe that once that plan was known outside of the two principle actors, fellow travelers spread the good word.

You want to play connect the dots as a hobby, have at it, but nobody is obligated to believe your imaginary conspiracies.
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Old 19th February 2018, 07:08 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
What? We KNOW that McVeigh had friends in Elohim City (the compound of survivalist white separatists co-founded by Richard Wayne Snell) such as Andreas Strassmeir and Stephen Colbern (who shared a P.O. Box with McVeigh). The fact that McVeigh knew people in Elohim City is not a matter of contention.
There is a whole world of difference between being in the same organisation and/or place as another person and actually knowing them.

I know someone in the USA who is a Scientologist. He lives in Clearwater, FL
Tom Cruise is a Scientologist. He also lives in Clearwater, FL
They have never met.

Its an even greater stretch to suggest that simply being in the same organisation as someone automatically means you have conspired together.
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Old 19th February 2018, 08:21 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
you're trying to find an innocent explanation for a happenstance too big to be coincidence.
Well, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

Did you know that in 2000, Ion Storm released a FPS game called "Deus Ex". The game graphics featured a New York City skyline but with the Twin Towers missing. This was apparently due to some limitations with the graphics engine, but the game's makers explained their absence as being due to them being knocked down in a terrorist attack.

Coincidence or did Ion Storm predict the 9/11 attacks?
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Last edited by smartcooky; 19th February 2018 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 20th February 2018, 01:54 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
One of the things that makes McVeigh such an enigmatic figure is the fact that he told different people different stories. He told his sister and his first two public defenders that he was an intelligence asset sent to monitor a bombing plot for the government. May as well say the Joker tells a consistent backstory.
Not too much a stretch that criminals who have been caught tell different stories to different folks, so the fence can submit them in an effort to sway at least one jury member to either vote for not guilty
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Old 20th February 2018, 07:21 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Well, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

Did you know that in 2000, Ion Storm released a FPS game called "Deus Ex". The game graphics featured a New York City skyline but with the Twin Towers missing. This was apparently due to some limitations with the graphics engine, but the game's makers explained their absence as being due to them being knocked down in a terrorist attack.

Coincidence or did Ion Storm predict the 9/11 attacks?
How is John Romero not the smoking gun for 9/11?
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Old 22nd February 2018, 11:32 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
Not too much a stretch that criminals who have been caught tell different stories to different folks, so the fence can submit them in an effort to sway at least one jury member to either vote for not guilty
What other bombing or bombing plot could Snell be talking about, bknight? What other huge bombing plan could the founder of Elohim City and the CSA possibly have been talking about besides the one carried out by Timothy McVeigh, who was connected to Elohim City/CSA members?
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Old 22nd February 2018, 11:34 AM   #132
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Some OKC right-wing extremist connection stuff is featured in the TV series episode Gangland: Army Of Hate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyAqUuBklRk
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Old 22nd February 2018, 12:20 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
What other bombing or bombing plot could Snell be talking about, bknight? What other huge bombing plan could the founder of Elohim City and the CSA possibly have been talking about besides the one carried out by Timothy McVeigh, who was connected to Elohim City/CSA members?
He could have been talking about Fantasy Land for all I know, since I wasn't at any of the meetings/interrogations. Unlike you I don't make hasty conclusions based on one set of data.

But he confessed to bombing the Murrah building regardless of what he told his sister.

Last edited by bknight; 22nd February 2018 at 12:24 PM. Reason: Added comment concerning sister.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 02:43 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
What other bombing or bombing plot could Snell be talking about, bknight? What other huge bombing plan could the founder of Elohim City and the CSA possibly have been talking about besides the one carried out by Timothy McVeigh, who was connected to Elohim City/CSA members?
I'd have to check, but my understanding is that Federal employees, IRS in particular, are usually put on alert for April 19 and 20 because most attacks are planned for those dates:

http://phasezero.gawker.com/april-19...day-1698498004

https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/...acks-in-april/

http://kmmsam.com/terrorism-and-the-month-of-april/

Since all communications between inmates and visitors are monitored I doubt someone came in and told him, and since his lawyer is an officer of the court he would have been compelled to reveal the plot.

Snell was just playing the odds.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 02:48 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
What other bombing or bombing plot could Snell be talking about, bknight? What other huge bombing plan could the founder of Elohim City and the CSA possibly have been talking about besides the one carried out by Timothy McVeigh, who was connected to Elohim City/CSA members?
Okay, so what is the smoking gun, here? That McVeigh planned and carried out the OKC bombing?

It seems like you're saying that the bombing happened pretty well much as reported in the mainstream accounts, but that McVeigh's inspiration has perhaps not been thoroughly explored.

Is that right?
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Old 22nd February 2018, 05:22 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Well, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

Did you know that in 2000, Ion Storm released a FPS game called "Deus Ex". The game graphics featured a New York City skyline but with the Twin Towers missing. This was apparently due to some limitations with the graphics engine, but the game's makers explained their absence as being due to them being knocked down in a terrorist attack.

Coincidence or did Ion Storm predict the 9/11 attacks?
Can we expect the Statue of Liberty to be the next target then?
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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:26 PM   #137
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What bombing was Snell talking about besides the one that happened?
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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:38 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
What bombing was Snell talking about besides the one that happened?
All we know he did was run his mouth, and we know TM & TN had told a third person about their plans.

White power mental defectives love talking. That is all it would take for the good news to spread in that demographic.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:39 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
What bombing was Snell talking about besides the one that happened?
Less questions, more answers, please.
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Old Yesterday, 12:47 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
What bombing was Snell talking about besides the one that happened?
The one in his head.
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Old Yesterday, 08:28 PM   #141
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Fill in the blanks, people.

It's a coincidence that Snell was executed on April 19th, the day of the bombing, because __________?

It's a coincidence that Snell planned to destroy the exact same building in 1983 because__________?

It's a coincidence that Timothy McVeigh was acquainted with several people living off the grid at Elohim City, a little-known survivalist white separatist compound founded by Snell himself only accessible trough a single steel bridge because_________?

It's a coincidence that Snell repeatedly bragged that there would be a giant bombing attack in America on the day of his execution, or a few days after because______?

It's a coincidence that Snell was precise and confident enough to claim that middle-eastern terrorist activity would probably be the initial motive suspected because________?

It's a coincidence that Snell reportedly acted amused at watching the news reports of the bombing, told a guard "today is a very significant day for various reasons", and declared sweet victory to Arkansas governor Guy Tucker as his last words before being executed because________?

It's a coincidence that no other bombing besides the Murrah building could possibly fit the description of what Snell was talking about because________?

ALL OF THIS COMBINED BECAUSE_____?

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Old Yesterday, 09:40 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Fill in the blanks, people.

It's a coincidence that Snell was executed on April 19th, the day of the bombing, because __________?

It's a coincidence that Snell planned to destroy the exact same building in 1983 because__________?

It's a coincidence that Timothy McVeigh was acquainted with several people living off the grid at Elohim City, a little-known survivalist white separatist compound founded by Snell himself only accessible trough a single steel bridge because_________?

It's a coincidence that Snell repeatedly bragged that there would be a giant bombing attack in America on the day of his execution, or a few days after because______?

It's a coincidence that Snell was precise and confident enough to claim that middle-eastern terrorist activity would probably be the initial motive suspected because________?

It's a coincidence that Snell reportedly acted amused at watching the news reports of the bombing, told a guard "today is a very significant day for various reasons", and declared sweet victory to Arkansas governor Guy Tucker as his last words before being executed because________?

It's a coincidence that no other bombing besides the Murrah building could possibly fit the description of what Snell was talking about because________?

ALL OF THIS COMBINED BECAUSE_____?
Because it was.



It was a coincidence I ate breakfast the same day Michael Jordan scored over 50 points in a game because _____?
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Old Yesterday, 10:14 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Fill in the blanks, people.

It's a coincidence that Snell was executed on April 19th, the day of the bombing, because __________?

... dates of execution are constantly changing and subject to last minute appeals. His exact date of execution could not be known with certainty. Also, his execution coincided with the 2nd anniversary of the Waco raid, McVeigh's stated reason.


Quote:
It's a coincidence that Snell planned to destroy the exact same building in 1983 because__________?

... a similar attack was written about in 1978's The Turner Diaries
, a book well-known to white-supremacists.


Quote:
It's a coincidence that Timothy McVeigh was acquainted with several people living off the grid at Elohim City, a little-known survivalist white separatist compound founded by Snell himself only accessible trough a single steel bridge because_________?

... there aren't that many communities of racist survivalists for racist survivalists to choose from.


Quote:
It's a coincidence that Snell repeatedly bragged that there would be a giant bombing attack in America on the day of his execution, or a few days after because______?

... the statement Snell made was general, didn't specify domestic or international, and claimed foreigners would be blamed. In fact, authorities had narrowed the suspect down to a white man (or men) within an hour and a half.


Quote:
It's a coincidence that Snell was precise and confident enough to claim that middle-eastern terrorist activity would probably be the initial motive suspected because________?

... there was nothing precise about it. Also, terrorists had bombed the World Trade Center in 1993. Hell, there'd been at least 6 other notable bombings by Islamic terrorists in the twelve months before OK City, including in Israel, Algeria, the Philippines and Argentina.


Quote:
It's a coincidence that Snell reportedly acted amused at watching the news reports of the bombing, told a guard "today is a very significant day for various reasons", and declared sweet victory to Arkansas governor Guy Tucker as his last words before being executed because________?

... he was watching the news and hated the government. It really doesn't require any particular foreknowledge to be happy about something after it happens.


Quote:
It's s a coincidence that no other bombing besides the Murrah building could possibly fit the description of what Snell was talking about because________?

... you're applying selection bias. You're only focussing on Snell's claims because they coincided with an attack. You're not counting the claims of any other person who may have made similar statements in history which didn't align with some event.


Quote:
ALL OF THIS COMBINED BECAUSE_____?

... NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE INDEPENDENT OF THE OTHERS. It's not a coincidence that I'm both married and have a spouse. Also, most of the things on your list are imaginary.
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Old Today, 06:05 AM   #144
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[quote=MicahJava;12195215]Fill in the blanks, people.

It's a coincidence that Snell was executed on April 19th, the day of the bombing, because That was the schedule for execution

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
It's a coincidence that Snell planned to destroy the exact same building in 1983 because Coincidence happens, Wingnuts are wingnuts and plot lots of things
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
It's a coincidence that Timothy McVeigh was acquainted with several people living off the grid at Elohim City, a little-known survivalist white separatist compound founded by Snell himself only accessible trough a single steel bridge because Wingnuts seek out like minded people, as does every one else. Stamp collectors seek out other stamp collectors, what of it?
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
It's a coincidence that Snell repeatedly bragged that there would be a giant bombing attack in America on the day of his execution, or a few days after because Because that is what wingnuts do. They are no different that the religious wingnuts predicting the end times are upon us. Surely you would not place yourself in that cohort, right?
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
It's a coincidence that no other bombing besides the Murrah building could possibly fit the description of what Snell was talking about because OK, that one you simply made up out of whole cloth
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
ALL OF THIS COMBINED BECAUSE You like BS?
All of this simply elaborates the simple truth that you want a conspiracy. You really want it. Facts be damned. The conspiracy must exist.
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