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Tags hillary clinton , joe biden , political speculation

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Old 6th May 2012, 07:26 PM   #1
applecorped
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Biden/Clinton 2016? Please, let it be so!

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/biden-dangl...181409840.html

"Vice President Joe Biden, who is preparing to embark on the 2012 re-election campaign trail, suggested Sunday he might be interested in running in 2016 -- paired on a ticket with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. "I think we may run as a team," Biden teased in an interview on NBC television to discuss his political future as President Barack Obama's right hand man in the White House, during the campaign leading to November's presidential election, and beyond."




He kids, of course.
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Old 6th May 2012, 07:44 PM   #2
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Hilary wont make the big play - I have a feeling she might be battling some long term health issue - recent interviews she has been looking terrible
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Old 6th May 2012, 10:20 PM   #3
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Why would Hillary want to be vice president again?
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Old 7th May 2012, 05:04 AM   #4
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Can't see it happening. Hillary does not seem to want the job. And I am not sure Biden wants it, either.
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Old 7th May 2012, 07:50 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
He kids, of course.
Much more believable. What a flippen' train wreck that would be.
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Old 7th May 2012, 08:25 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
Hilary wont make the big play - I have a feeling she might be battling some long term health issue - recent interviews she has been looking terrible
Possibly. I know someone who's in politics and it made him physically ill. I think the amount of stress in a job like that is tremendous.

In some ways, that's good for Mitt Romney. If your OS says that you shouldn't run the "empathy" algorithm, that's less taxing on the CPU. I just hope he wouldn't run into a situation where he has a terrorist in his sights, but the first rule of robotics kicks in.
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:00 AM   #7
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As long at the GOP puts up any combination of Santorum, Gingrich, Bachmann, Cain, Perry or Giuliani that ticket couldn't lose. Hell I'll even throw in Paul "I have a B.S. in Economics, and I think Atlas Shrugged is a text book" Ryan.

You are living in a glass house if you think this fantasy is even close to as ridiculous as the reality of the GOP primary field this year.

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Old 7th May 2012, 09:02 AM   #8
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Nope, won't happen. Hillary will either run for POTUS or go home. I have a sawbuck that says she runs.
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:04 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by daredelvis View Post
As long at the GOP puts up any combination of Santorum, Gingrich, Bachmann, Cain, Perry or Giuliani that ticket couldn't lose. Hell I'll even throw in Paul "I have a B.S. in Economics, and I think Atlas Shrugged is a text book" Ryan.

You are living in a glass house if you think this fantasy is even close to as ridiculous as the reality of the GOP primary field this year.

Daredelvis
You're assuming here that Obama beats Romney, which is hardly a sure thing.
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:11 AM   #10
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Is the current GOP proposition really that bad?

Okay, so what have we got as arguments for the GOP?
  • Obama ate dog.
  • A Biden/Clinton ticket would be a joke.
Good times were had by all.
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:13 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
You're assuming here that Obama beats Romney, which is hardly a sure thing.
Agreed, however, the GOP field was particularly pathetic by just about any measure.
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:16 AM   #12
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I hate Hilllary with the intensity of one thousand suns.

She would be bad for this country and set an example that back-stabbing scheming is how one claws their way to the top.
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:26 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Bill Thompson View Post
I hate Hilllary with the intensity of one thousand suns.

She would be bad for this country and set an example that back-stabbing scheming is how one claws their way to the top.
Is that based on information you have from confidential sources?
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:32 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by hgc View Post
Is that based on information you have from confidential sources?
You know the famous "stay at home and bake cookies" quote?

There was White Water, there were rumors of her hanging lawyer friends out to dry. Finally someone asked Hillary directly if she was using questional ethics to advance her political career and she responded that she could have just stayed home and make cookies. This meant that, to her, being unethical was necessary to gain a political career.

There is also Barbara Olsen's book "Hell TO Pay" where she cites lots of sources and experiences in dealing with Hillary as a member of Ken Star's team.

If Olsen had not been on one of the planes on 9-11-2001, she would be on talk shows denouncing Hillary. We should not let her death stop us from learning about Hillary.

There are other books against Hillary as well and they cite lots of sources to back up.

There is also my blog.

http://www.gelsana.com/Hillary/

There is also the dumbass hog wash philosophy that her husband tries to spread even to this day. In fact, he did it on the Ellen show last week. Basically it is this. Be nice to our enimies and they will be nice to us. This is the Bill and Hillary international philosophy that is responsible for a number of attrosities including letting the capture of Osama bin Laden slide; The Black Hawk Down events; The first WTC bombings; and the Slaughter of about one million in Rwanda.

Last edited by Bill Thompson; 7th May 2012 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:40 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Bill Thompson View Post
You know the famous "stay at home and bake cookies" quote?

There was White Water, there were rumors of her hanging lawyer friends out to dry. Finally someone asked Hillary directly if she was using questional ethics to advance her political career and she responded that she could have just stayed home and make cookies. This meant that, to her, being unethical was necessary to gain a political career.

There is also Barbara Olsen's book "Hell TO Pay" where she cites lots of sources and experiences in dealing with Hillary as a member of Ken Star's team.

If Olsen had not been on one of the planes on 9-11-2001, she would be on talk shows denouncing Hillary. We should not let her death stop us from learning about Hillary.

There are other books against Hillary as well and they cite lots of sources to back up.

There is also my blog.

http://www.gelsana.com/Hillary/

There is also the dumbass hog wash philosophy that her husband tries to spread even to this day. In fact, he did it on the Ellen show last week. Basically it is this. Be nice to our enimies and they will be nice to us. This is the Bill and Hillary international philosophy that is responsible for a number of attrosities including letting the capture of Osama bin Laden slide; The Black Hawk Down events; The first WTC bombings; and the Slaughter of about one million in Rwanda.

Bill, your blog is...er...interesting.
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:49 AM   #16
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(#19) Content of Character

I am a firm believer in the timeless philosophy of Dr. Martin Luther King who believed that people are to be judged by the content of their character. If we are to be a respectable society, we will not judge Hillary Clinton because of or in spite of her gender. We should judge her by the content of her character.

I remember how shocked people were following the release of the Oval Office audio recordings after the Watergate scandal. One thing that was surprising was how much swearing and profanity went on in the nation’s higher office. Using colorful language is not really a big deal if someone is simply playing a character or reciting a story or quoting someone else. But the words we choose to use are a reflection of our thoughts and how we view our world. When the tape recordings were being transcribed, it is common knowledge that Nixon was panic-stricken and did all he could to black out profanity.

The Hillary Clinton people know in public is not the same person that her aides, her friends, and her family know in private. She swears like a prison inmate. She is rude and crude. The fact that she displays this false persona in public is even more troubling and shows the content of her character.

One may argue that this means only that she is passionate about certain things. But she directs her tirades towards people close to her and to people she is supposed to negotiate with. Aides who attended to the couple’s residential section of The White House, when her husband was president, would leak stories that the two would have Jerry Springer style fights on a regular basis. She throws the F-bomb around on a regular basis. She addresses people in the most degrading and obscene terms frequently. She is not qualified to be the president of the United States.

Here are some examples:

"Where is the G-damn ******* flag? I want the G-damn ******* flag up every ******* morning at ******* sunrise." (From the book "Inside The White House" by Ronald Kessler, p. 244 - Hillary to the staff at the Arkansas Governor's mansion on Labor Day, 1991)

"You sold out, you mother ******! You sold out!" (From the book "Inside" by Joseph Califano, p. 213 - Hillary yelling at Democrat lawyer.)

**** off! It's enough that I have to see you ****-kickers every day, I'm not going to talk to you too!! Just do your G*damn job and keep your mouth shut." (From the book "American Evita" by Christopher Anderson, p. 90 - Hillary to her State Trooper bodyguards after one of them greeted her with "Good morning."

"You ******* idiot." (From the book "Crossfire" p. 84 - Hillary to a State Trooper who was driving her to an event.)

"If you want to remain on this detail, get your ******* ass over here and grab those bags!" (From the book "The First Partner" p. 259 - Hillary to a Secret Service Agent who was reluctant to carry her luggage because he wanted to keep his hands free in case of an incident.)

"Get ******! Get the **** out of my way!!! Get out of my face!!!"(From the book "Hillary's Scheme" p. 89 - Hillary's various comments to her Secret Service detail agents.)

"Stay the **** back, stay the **** away from me! Don't come within ten yards of me, or else! Just ******* do as I say, Okay!!!?" (From the book "Unlimited Access", by Clinton FBI Agent in Charge, Gary Aldrige, p. 139 - Hillary screaming at her Secret Service detail.)

"Why do I have to keep proving to people that I am not a liar?!"(From the book "The Survivor," by John Harris, p. 382 - Hillary in her 2000 Senate campaign)

"Where's the miserable **********?" (From the book "The Truth About Hillary" by Edward Klein, p. 5 - Hillary shouting at a Secret Service officer)

"Put this on the ground! I left my sunglasses in the limo. I need those sunglasses. We need to go back!" (From the book "Dereliction of Duty" p. 71-72 - Hillary to Marine One helicopter pilot to turn back while en route to Air Force One.)

"What are you doing inviting these people into my home? These people are our enemies! They are trying to destroy us!" (From the book "The Survivor" by John Harris, p. 99 - Hillary screaming to an aide, when she found out that some Republicans had been invited to the White House)

"Come on Bill, put your dick up! You can't **** her here!!" (From the book "Inside The White House" by Ronald Kessler, p. 243 - Hillary to Gov. Clinton when she spots him talking with an attractive female at an Arkansas political rally)

"You know, I'm going to start thanking the woman who cleans the restroom in the building I work in. I'm going to start thinking of her as a human being" (From the book "The Case Against Hillary Clinton" by Peggy Noonan, p. 55)

Edited by jhunter1163:  Edited for multiple breaches of Rule 10.

Last edited by LashL; 8th May 2012 at 03:38 PM. Reason: jhunter1163 missed one.
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:50 AM   #17
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So, she swears like a sailor? So did Nixon.
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:54 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bill Thompson View Post
I hate Hilllary with the intensity of one thousand suns.

She would be bad for this country and set an example that back-stabbing scheming is how one claws their way to the top.

Originally Posted by hgc View Post
Is that based on information you have from confidential sources?
Eating soup and reading JREF are not conducive to a clean computer keyboard.
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:56 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Bill Thompson View Post
(#19) Content of Character

I am a firm believer in the timeless philosophy of Dr. Martin Luther King who believed that people are to be judged by the content of their character. If we are to be a respectable society, we will not judge Hillary Clinton because of or in spite of her gender. We should judge her by the content of her character.

I remember how shocked people were following the release of the Oval Office audio recordings after the Watergate scandal. One thing that was surprising was how much swearing and profanity went on in the nation’s higher office. Using colorful language is not really a big deal if someone is simply playing a character or reciting a story or quoting someone else. But the words we choose to use are a reflection of our thoughts and how we view our world. When the tape recordings were being transcribed, it is common knowledge that Nixon was panic-stricken and did all he could to black out profanity.

The Hillary Clinton people know in public is not the same person that her aides, her friends, and her family know in private. She swears like a prison inmate. She is rude and crude. The fact that she displays this false persona in public is even more troubling and shows the content of her character.

One may argue that this means only that she is passionate about certain things. But she directs her tirades towards people close to her and to people she is supposed to negotiate with. Aides who attended to the couple’s residential section of The White House, when her husband was president, would leak stories that the two would have Jerry Springer style fights on a regular basis. She throws the F-bomb around on a regular basis. She addresses people in the most degrading and obscene terms frequently. She is not qualified to be the president of the United States.

Here are some examples:

"Where is the G-damn ******* flag? I want the G-damn ******* flag up every ******* morning at ******* sunrise." (From the book "Inside The White House" by Ronald Kessler, p. 244 - Hillary to the staff at the Arkansas Governor's mansion on Labor Day, 1991)

"You sold out, you mother ******! You sold out!" (From the book "Inside" by Joseph Califano, p. 213 - Hillary yelling at Democrat lawyer.)

**** off! It's enough that I have to see you ****-kickers every day, I'm not going to talk to you too!! Just do your G*damn job and keep your mouth shut." (From the book "American Evita" by Christopher Anderson, p. 90 - Hillary to her State Trooper bodyguards after one of them greeted her with "Good morning."

"You ******* idiot." (From the book "Crossfire" p. 84 - Hillary to a State Trooper who was driving her to an event.)

"If you want to remain on this detail, get your ******* ass over here and grab those bags!" (From the book "The First Partner" p. 259 - Hillary to a Secret Service Agent who was reluctant to carry her luggage because he wanted to keep his hands free in case of an incident.)

"Get ******! Get the **** out of my way!!! Get out of my face!!!"(From the book "Hillary's Scheme" p. 89 - Hillary's various comments to her Secret Service detail agents.)

"Stay the **** back, stay the **** away from me! Don't come within ten yards of me, or else! Just ******* do as I say, Okay!!!?" (From the book "Unlimited Access", by Clinton FBI Agent in Charge, Gary Aldrige, p. 139 - Hillary screaming at her Secret Service detail.)

"Why do I have to keep proving to people that I am not a liar?!"(From the book "The Survivor," by John Harris, p. 382 - Hillary in her 2000 Senate campaign)

"Where's the miserable **********?" (From the book "The Truth About Hillary" by Edward Klein, p. 5 - Hillary shouting at a Secret Service officer)

"Put this on the ground! I left my sunglasses in the limo. I need those sunglasses. We need to go back!" (From the book "Dereliction of Duty" p. 71-72 - Hillary to Marine One helicopter pilot to turn back while en route to Air Force One.)

"What are you doing inviting these people into my home? These people are our enemies! They are trying to destroy us!" (From the book "The Survivor" by John Harris, p. 99 - Hillary screaming to an aide, when she found out that some Republicans had been invited to the White House)

"Come on Bill, put your dick up! You can't **** her here!!" (From the book "Inside The White House" by Ronald Kessler, p. 243 - Hillary to Gov. Clinton when she spots him talking with an attractive female at an Arkansas political rally)

"You know, I'm going to start thanking the woman who cleans the restroom in the building I work in. I'm going to start thinking of her as a human being" (From the book "The Case Against Hillary Clinton" by Peggy Noonan, p. 55)
Edited by jhunter1163:  Edited for breaches of Rule 10.
Oh my!
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Last edited by LashL; 8th May 2012 at 03:39 PM. Reason: jhunter1163 missed one.
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:58 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
So, she swears like a sailor? So did Nixon.
And LBJ.
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:58 AM   #21
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Bill, I don't suppose you'd be willing to consider why the same behavior in other people fails to generate the same personal loathing.

It is reprehensible in all who exhibit it, but why your disproportionate response?
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Old 7th May 2012, 09:59 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Agreed, however, the GOP field was particularly pathetic by just about any measure.
I'll concede you that point.
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Old 7th May 2012, 10:04 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by daredelvis View Post
......I'll even throw in Paul "I have a B.S. in Economics, and I think Atlas Shrugged is a text book" Ryan.....
Actually, quite a few people, including Ryan, have been warning the Admin that Atlas Shrugged is NOT as text book in methods of collectivist success, but dreary failures though such policies.

Not that they listen.
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Old 7th May 2012, 10:05 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
Hilary wont make the big play - I have a feeling she might be battling some long term health issue - recent interviews she has been looking terrible
That's too bad. I saw Bill Clinton in person recently, and he was really shaky too. I don't think that either of them are the type that will take it easy and relax, rather than continue on their frenetic career pace at the expense of their health.
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Old 7th May 2012, 10:18 AM   #25
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What Biden actually said was:
Quote:
That's a great question, no really, it is; and I really wish that there were more people in the media who would ask questions like that, as you just did. Look, here's the deal: This election--and I mean the presidential election of 2012, now--is about Barack Obama and all of the incredible things he's accomplished. If you look at the record, I think you have to agree that he has done a fantastic job, simply a fantastic job, and has done it in spite of some serious foot-dragging and nay-saying by the Republicans. But the truth of the matter is that Barack Obama has done a fantastic job. You know, things haven't always been easy, and there have been people who were not only hoping, even saying out loud, that Barack Obama would fail, but these same people were actively working and donating money to making sure that he would fail, so that they could claim that it was all his fault, instead of their fault, which of course it was. And I think that's despicable. But Barack Obama has come through it all, and has shown he's the better man, and has actually achieved several accomplishments that many people thought would be impossible; but he did them, and he did them well; and the country will be the better for them; and I honestly believe in my heart that when the American People go to the polls in November, they will remember these accomplishments, and will exercise their rights to vote to show their thanks to Barack Obama and their confidence that he is the man who will best lead this country for the next four years. And it's important, I think, to emphasize what the next four years will mean. It will mean economic recovery; it will mean fiscal responsibility; it will mean improved infrastructure; it will mean a strong and respected military; it will mean a robust foreign policy; it will mean a commitment to domestic peace and justice and human rights; it will mean a re-establishment of moral standing in the world for the United States; and this is just some of what it will mean. Of course, as Americans, we know that there will always be work to do, and when Barack Obama leaves office in 2017, as the Constitution requires him to do, there will still be work to be done, though we will surely be on the best path. Some have suggested that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is the logical choice to take up the reins, and some have suggested that I might be in the best position to assume that role. I think we may run as a team, for all I know, Biden-Clinton, or Clinton-Biden, it doesn't really matter; what matters is that the policies of Barack Obama continue for the benefit of the American People. See, here's the deal: Whoever is running in 2016 isn't as important as who is running in 2012, and the man running in 2012 is Barack Obama, who has some absolutely exceptional accomplishments under his belt, and has more things he'd like to do. And what he wants, of course, is a mandate from the American People to go do them. He wants that mandate, he needs that mandate, and--do you know what?--I think he's gonna get that mandate in November, because he has done one hell of a job for this amazing country of ours, and the voters are going to step into the polling booths, or polling places, or whatever, and say, "Thanks, Barack Obama! Thanks for working so hard for us! We think you deserve another four years!" That's what the American People are going to say. I really believe that.
This was in response to the reporter's question, "Would you like a glass of water before we start?"
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Old 7th May 2012, 10:30 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Brown View Post
...

This was in response to the reporter's question, "Would you like a glass of water before we start?"
LOL
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Old 7th May 2012, 11:47 AM   #27
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I think we live in a different era than the era where politicians like Hillary can raise to the presidency. In the world we live today, people like her -- I mean her true nature -- cannot be hidden and masked by the facade she shows the world during speeches and interviews. In the world of the internet, the truth seems to come out.

Kind of like the Blogs VS. Dan Rather and that phoney letter from W.'s base commander. Remember that?

Hillary thinks, like many old-school politicians and business folks, that she can elbow her way to the top and keep her true crude, immoral nature under wraps.
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Old 7th May 2012, 11:52 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
So, she swears like a sailor? So did Nixon.
Times change.

Someone like JFK would not have a chance in today's world either.

But it is worse than swearing. She treats staff like trash in a really unforgivable way.
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Old 7th May 2012, 11:55 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
Bill, I don't suppose you'd be willing to consider why the same behavior in other people fails to generate the same personal loathing.

It is reprehensible in all who exhibit it, but why your disproportionate response?
Without you giving me a specific example, I do not know how to respond. What other person has made it to the top lately who is like this?

By the way, I do not support any political figure in the public eye right now. So I have no idea what you are talking about.
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Old 7th May 2012, 11:59 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Bill Thompson View Post
Times change.

Someone like JFK would not have a chance in today's world either.

But it is worse than swearing. She treats staff like trash in a really unforgivable way.
Results are all I care about.

If she gets results, and you tell me she is drunk every night, I'd send her a case of whatever she drinks.
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Old 7th May 2012, 12:06 PM   #31
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that'll teach me to click on the link without checking to see who the OP was.

Record's intact

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Old 7th May 2012, 12:14 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Bill Thompson View Post
But it is worse than swearing. She treats staff like trash in a really unforgivable way.
I just did a google search for examples of Hillary treating her staff like trash and came up with only one hate piece from the FreeRepublic.

So can your sources go public on this? How about a link? Or is this just another of your wild, unfounded claims which you will make no effort to support?
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Old 7th May 2012, 12:39 PM   #33
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Since folks have wondered about foul language in the White House, let's just say that quite a few executives have been known for salty speech. Harry S Truman (the 33rd President) was known for using strong language, some of it directed at Gen. Douglas MacArthur. Dwight Eisenhower (the 34rd President) was a military man as was his right-hand guy (Gen. Adams); both were observed to utter a few words of military frankness but kept a good face in public. John F. Kennedy (the 35th President) was known to be crude in private even if he was gracious in public. Many were shocked when his press secretary Pierre Salinger quoted Kennedy's words at the advent of the Missile Crisis; Kennedy had faked an illness as a pretext to return to the White House, and when Salinger asked what was going on, Kennedy said that when Salinger found out, he (Salinger) would grab his (Salinger's), er, testicles. Lyndon B. Johnson and Richard M. Nixon (numbers 36 and 37) were legendary for their crudity. Both of them were recorded saying very base things to their staff, but Nixon got the worst of the publicity. Gerald R. Ford and Jimmy Carter (numbers 38 and 39) both used language that was mild by comparison; Carter raised a few eyebrows when he told a reporter, on the record, that if Edward Kennedy were to challenge Carter for the nomination, "I'll whip his ass." (Kennedy did run, and Carter did whip his ass.) Ronald Reagan (number 40) mostly watched his language in the White House, but had a history of cursing when he muffed his lines or got frustrated; he also got caught on an open mike referring to people as "sonsabitches." George H.W. (Elder) Bush and Bill Clinton (numbers 41 and 42) were known to speak crudely in private although they watched their language in public; though Elder Bush did get caught at an open mike commenting upon the qualifications of some attendees. George W. Bush (number 43) had a vice president who elevated the "F" word to public discourse. Bush too was known to speak Texas-style about certain matters of national concern. It was reported that Bush dismissed the PDB given to him in August 2001 with the words, "You've covered your ass now."

Other candidates for the office of the presidency have had incidents of naughty language. In addition to the "honorable" Mr. Cheney, other VPs have delved into crudity. An open mike caught Biden using an indecency to describe the importance of health care; Al Gore reported used the word "goddamn" to make points to Clinton; Nelson Rockefeller rebutted a heckler by giving him the finger.
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Old 7th May 2012, 12:55 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Bill Thompson View Post
She throws the F-bomb around on a regular basis.
Hillary swears a lot? Well, **** me.
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Old 7th May 2012, 01:07 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
Results are all I care about.

If she gets results, and you tell me she is drunk every night, I'd send her a case of whatever she drinks.
Yep, whatever it takes to get those trains running on time...

(Not a Godwin, it was Mussolini :P )
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Old 7th May 2012, 01:14 PM   #36
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None of those quotes from Hillary are particularly disqualifying as far as I'm concerned (even if true). Now, you ought to give a listen to Richard Nixon talking about the Jews, and Billy Graham agreeing, if you want some really bad stuff from high-placed politician. And you can hear it on tape in his own voice, rather than filtered through the imagination of Barbara Olsen.
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Old 7th May 2012, 01:15 PM   #37
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I have to be honest...

I've never been a fan of Hillary personally. I respect her as a politician and I think she has done a good job as Secretary of State. I have no illusions about the egos of people in power. I don't condone her treatment of staff if that is true.
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Old 7th May 2012, 01:26 PM   #38
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It's the 21st century, Bill. People - even women - swear.
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Old 7th May 2012, 01:49 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
Yep, whatever it takes to get those trains running on time...

(Not a Godwin, it was Mussolini :P )
Actually I was more thinking Lincoln's comments about Ulysses S. Grant.
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Old 7th May 2012, 01:56 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
I'll concede you that point.


The one guy who might have generated mild excitement, Christie, wisely chose not to run given winning is hardly a sure thing, and getting re-nominated in 4 years to try again after flopping is even harder.
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