Amazing.The Earth is flat after all - Page 3

Lukraak_Sisser · 20th June 2016, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Malbec

Absolutely brilliant .
I wonder if anybody has thought of that before ?

Yes, lots of people. That's why it was never actually thought the earth was flat until it was relatively recently added to history books to make our ancestors look stupid.

And as it turns out, stupidity is something ageless, hence some people started believing it because they have some weird need to 'know the inside scoop'. Sad, but true.

Hans · 20th June 2016, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Malbec

Better to be a General than a Jobsworth .
Better to think decisively and with a strong , broad brush than to be bogged down with detail .
There have always been and always will be the need for clerks and those who derive gratification from dotting and crossing .Probably because they are very dotty themselves and cross with life for making them so boring .
You see where I am going .

Yes you are the person who cleans up after the person who cleans up after the clerks and the generals.

You keep trying to pretend you are something great but always fall so short.....

Hans · 20th June 2016, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

Yes, lots of people. That's why it was never actually thought the earth was flat until it was relatively recently added to history books to make our ancestors look stupid.

And as it turns out, stupidity is something ageless, hence some people started believing it because they have some weird need to 'know the inside scoop'. Sad, but true.

In most cases yes that is true but some cultures didn't develop the idea of a spherical world until quite late, some not until they encountered Europeans.

Nakani · 20th June 2016, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by NoahFence

When we fly at altitude, we're high enough to see the curve of the earth.

/thread

I see someone has never been to the flat earth society forum. The sun shines a circle of light on the earth and you are looking at the curved edge of the illuminated part.

Tomtomkent · 20th June 2016, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Malbec

Better to be a General than a Jobsworth .
Better to think decisively and with a strong , broad brush than to be bogged down with detail .

Better still to get your facts right and be correct.

Originally Posted by Malbec

There have always been and always will be the need for clerks and those who derive gratification from dotting and crossing .Probably because they are very dotty themselves and cross with life for making them so boring .

And yet there is no need for those who make "strong and decisive" statements that are so clearly wrong.

Originally Posted by Malbec

You see where I am going .

Down the garden path.

Rincewind · 20th June 2016, 11:49 PM

The Earth is clearly flat - just like discworld!

After all, if it was spherical, all the antipodeans would fall off!

(assuming, of course, that Australasia actually exists...)

AdMan · 20th June 2016, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Malbec

Better to be a General than a Jobsworth .
Better to think decisively and with a strong , broad brush than to be bogged down with detail .
There have always been and always will be the need for clerks and those who derive gratification from dotting and crossing .Probably because they are very dotty themselves and cross with life for making them so boring .
You see where I am going .

I do see. Certainly rebelling against the draconian rules of punctuation sets one apart as a great maverick challenging the very tenets that we have been spoon-fed since we were children.

But then you spouted that flat-earth drivel, and I'm sorry to say that--extra spaces or no--you're talking ignorant bull ****.

Tomtomkent · 20th June 2016, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Malbec

Absolutely brilliant .
I wonder if anybody has thought of that before ?

Oooooh. I see what you did there.

But now you have a problem. After being so...er... "pithy" about how this problem has been acknowledged since ancient Greece, you should probably have an answer for it.

Can you reconcile a flat Earth with this observable evidence?

(Little hint. If you expensive "private" school gave you a Classical Education that was boast worthy, you might have had an answer for this, instead of a hollow pithy remark. Just saying....)

MikeG · 20th June 2016, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Malbec

Absolutely brilliant .
I wonder if anybody has thought of that before ?

You clearly didn't, General. Your broadbrush strategy and decisive thinking missed the boring little detail that any fool can look out of a plane window and actually see that the earth isn't flat. You haven't the time for such nitpicking little details, but you've plenty of time for self aggrandisement and to sneer.

Tomtomkent · 20th June 2016, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by AdMan

I do see. Certainly rebelling against the draconian rules of punctuation sets one apart as a great maverick challenging the very tenets that we have been spoon-fed since we were children.

But then you spouted that flat-earth drivel, and I'm sorry to say that--extra spaces or no--you're talking ignorant bull ****.

"I don't look at the details. I let other people look at the details. That way I don't have to know how wrong I am..."

tinribmancer · 21st June 2016, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by Malbec

Better to be a General than a Jobsworth .
Better to think decisively and with a strong , broad brush than to be bogged down with detail .
There have always been and always will be the need for clerks and those who derive gratification from dotting and crossing .Probably because they are very dotty themselves and cross with life for making them so boring .
You see where I am going .

I do, but I don't know what it's called in english...

Kid Eager · 21st June 2016, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by Rincewind

The Earth is clearly flat - just like discworld!

After all, if it was spherical, all the antipodeans would fall off!

(assuming, of course, that Australasia actually exists...)

Perhaps if I sent you some of our faster spiders, that might convince you?

Kid Eager · 21st June 2016, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by Malbec

Better to be a General than a Jobsworth .
Better to think decisively and with a strong , broad brush than to be bogged down with detail .
There have always been and always will be the need for clerks and those who derive gratification from dotting and crossing .Probably because they are very dotty themselves and cross with life for making them so boring .
You see where I am going .

General Page Fault?

Foster Zygote · 21st June 2016, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

Yes, lots of people. That's why it was never actually thought the earth was flat until it was relatively recently added to history books to make our ancestors look stupid.

And as it turns out, stupidity is something ageless, hence some people started believing it because they have some weird need to 'know the inside scoop'. Sad, but true.

The idea that most people thought that the earth was flat until Columbus proved it a sphere is most certainly a giant load of crap. Pretty much everyone of any learning in the European world accepted that the earth was a round ball in the late 15th century, and had thought so for a couple of millennia. But it's true that ancient civilizations like the Babylonians, Sumerians and Egyptians had a cosmology that represented the earth as a flat plain. But even then it was far different from the zetetic model of the modern day gnostic cult of flat-earthers. Back when the stories that eventually became the Tanakh were being invented, the commonly accepted state of the universe looked like this.

Sorry, can't get images to post for some reason.

And it's not that they were dumber than us, they just didn't have the information that later generations had. They still made excellent observations of the sun, moon, planets and stars. That's why they never imagined that the sun and moon circle above the surface of the earth, because unlike modern flat-earthers, they could do geometry.

Trebuchet · 21st June 2016, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Malbec

Absolutely brilliant .
I wonder if anybody has thought of that before ?

Since you've returned, Malbec, here is a multiple choice question for you: Do you believe, based on the video you linked, that the earth is flat?
A) Yes, the evidence on the video is convincing.
B) Not sure, but the evidence is interesting.
C) I did, but the responses in this thread have convinced me otherwise. (No shame in that!)
D) No, I just wanted to see how other posters here would react to it.
E) Other (please state).

alexi_drago · 21st June 2016, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

The flat Earth, all explained with mathematical constructs.

But....no actual math.

No, they do use math, just the wrong math, and used very badly. You will regularly see them using the calculation 'height in inches=8*(distance in miles^2)' when calculating the curve of the so called ball earth, it's an approximation which is close enough for purpose for relatively short distances but they insist on using it even for larger distances. Not only that though, they don't seem to understand what it is it calculates and think it's the height the top of the curve reaches relative to the cord between 2 points on a circle rather than the drop from the tangent plane. They tend to steer clear of things like trigonometry and geometry, either it's too difficult for them or it doesn't give them the answers they want.

Nakani · 21st June 2016, 10:34 AM

I don't know about the rest of you but I've been to the FES forum....an..and I saw stuff....stupid stuff, lots of it.

Its hard to pin down the FEer, I was curious, when I heard of the Flat earth society. I thought it was just a club where the main purpose was to get away from your spouse for a while, or something. Then I checked out the forum, it is very hard to tell if they actually believe what they are saying. It appears to be just an exercise in debating, where you just pick a side and do your best to make a case. It seems like the believers are believers just to accent their personality with a bit of qwerky, its fun when people think your crazy, it gives you a power over others.

I suspect Malbec might fall into that category, I think there are true believers but they are rare.

bruto · 21st June 2016, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Malbec

Absolutely brilliant .
I wonder if anybody has thought of that before ?

Many, but apparently not the person who made the video you so admiringly cited.

I do wonder about this. If you saw something very clear and obvious, that made sense according to all the conventional wisdom, that fit with the ideas of mainstream science and with your own perception, why would you give credence to a person who says his math contradicts it, unless you yourself understand the math? You can go up in a plane, and, like millions of other people, you can see the curvature of the earth. Which agrees with physics, astronauts' observations, and various wise people from Eratosthenes on.

A stranger on the internet just told me everyone else is wrong, and he claims he has some math. Oh me oh my, whatever shall I do?

jimbob · 21st June 2016, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Nakani

I see someone has never been to the flat earth society forum. The sun shines a circle of light on the earth and you are looking at the curved edge of the illuminated part.

I understand that the light's curvature is caused by the rapid revolution of William of Occam's corpse about its axis.

Nakani · 21st June 2016, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by jimbob

I understand that the light's curvature is caused by the rapid revolution of William of Occam's corpse about its axis.

Could be, could be. That is one of the things I find funny about their logic, the majority of the belief comes from a religious standpoint. This makes me wonder why, an omnipotent god would construct some kind of Rube Goldberg world that requires so much intervention. Surely, there was an easier way.

smartcooky · 21st June 2016, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Not to mention that stellar parallax CAN be seen and measured if you have a good enough setup. And has been since 1838!

Originally Posted by GlennB

That's right. Don't they measure the distance of nearby Cepheid variables that way, leading to getting a handle on much greater stellar distances? My astronomy studies were so long ago that the constellations have changed shape since then

... and further to that, the satellite Hipparcos which was launched in 1989, had a primary mission of measuring the parallaxes and proper motions of nearby stars. It can measure stellar parallaxes for stars as far away as 1,500 light years. Since 2013, the ESA's Gaia mission increased the accuracy of stellar parallax measurements down to about 10µ arc-seconds, pushing the measurable range out to about 35,000 light years.

Of course, if you're one of the nutbars who think that rockets don't work in space and satellites are fake, then its pretty moot.

Captain_Swoop · 22nd June 2016, 02:21 AM

We all know NASA and other space agencies are part of the conspiracy to hide the true nature of the Flat Earth.

catsmate · 22nd June 2016, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by jimbob

If you play around with physical laws enough* and make them vary sufficiently, you probably could build a complicated edifice which fits the observations

Varying refractive index would be an obvious one - and I can imagine if you vary other things in the same way it might work. Why one would want to I am not sure.

*Including distance

Well a toroidal planet could exist...

JayUtah · 22nd June 2016, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

We all know NASA and other space agencies are part of the conspiracy to hide the true nature of the Flat Earth.

Which of course has bugger all to do with the billions of dollars yearly spent on private spacefaring, so all those engineering and insurance companies must be in on it as well.

Dr.Sid · 22nd June 2016, 08:45 AM

Really nice video. Well explained, not overly complex, and the CG is very good. That's science for you.

alexi_drago · 22nd June 2016, 02:08 PM

Great video showing how the sun appears to set on flat earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_ipGoFf2Ss

It's all a matter of perspective.

Dr.Sid · 22nd June 2016, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by alexi_drago

Great video showing how the sun appears to set on flat earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_ipGoFf2Ss

It's all a matter of perspective.

Another gem of ingenuity. I always had problems visualizing the Sun setting over the flat Earth. Music is good too.

Captain_Swoop · 22nd June 2016, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Which of course has bugger all to do with the billions of dollars yearly spent on private spacefaring, so all those engineering and insurance companies must be in on it as well.

Of course they are. It's all part of the hoax, anything you can come up with is part of the hoax if it's needed.
You know this.

fuelair · 22nd June 2016, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by tinribmancer

I do, but I don't know what it's called in english...

I know where he is going in more than one language but I can't write it here in a way it will be recognized but ok to say.

fuelair · 22nd June 2016, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Kid Eager

General Page Fault?

General Catastrophe
General Confusion
General ****up

smartcooky · 22nd June 2016, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by RogueKitten

Someone who claims the earth is flat is only demonstrating that they've never traveled far from home. You can literally see the curvature of the earth from airplanes or boats.

In 1987 I was very fortunate to have been a passenger on the Kuiper Airborne Observatory (a modified Lockheed C-141 Starlifter fitted with a 90 cm telescope) when it was on one of its flights out of Christchurch to observe the Supernova 1987a.

The KAO flew higher than most commercial airliners (often up to 45,000 feet*) and because it flew on clear, crisp nights over the Southern Ocean, the "seeing" was just extraordinary. With that altitude, and the panoramic view from the cockpit, the curvature of the Earth was very easy to see in the twilight before the observing runs actually started.

* plane spotters will notice that this is above the C141's service ceiling of 41,000ft. The KAO was a highly modified C-141, rated for the higher altitude

http://science.nasa.gov/missions/kao/

benbradley · 22nd June 2016, 06:34 PM

I stopped the video at six seconds to read the caption (which, as I discovered replaying it, doesn't match the spoken text). "[NASA and modern astronomy claim] Earth is ... suspended in infinite space."

No, there is no infinite space. One might argue the words were used metaphorically, but I don't think a scientist (unless he's changed careers to be a Public Guru of New Age Science, like Michio Kaku) would say that, because it's misleading, AND it's not true.

Double-checking, the video is 11 minutes - look how much time I've saved by not watching it!

Dr.Sid · 23rd June 2016, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by benbradley

I stopped the video at six seconds to read the caption (which, as I discovered replaying it, doesn't match the spoken text). "[NASA and modern astronomy claim] Earth is ... suspended in infinite space."

No, there is no infinite space. One might argue the words were used metaphorically, but I don't think a scientist (unless he's changed careers to be a Public Guru of New Age Science, like Michio Kaku) would say that, because it's misleading, AND it's not true.

Double-checking, the video is 11 minutes - look how much time I've saved by not watching it!

You missed great opportunity to educate yourself.

Hans · 23rd June 2016, 08:58 AM

Oh my that film was a serious example of stupid. Wish I could get that time back.

tinribmancer · 23rd June 2016, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Hans

Oh my that film was a serious example of stupid. Wish I could get that time back.

Did you suffer any braindamage from watching it?

I do wonder what makes a flat earther believe that the Earth is flat? The whole idea sound so preposterous.

jaydeehess · 23rd June 2016, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Malbec

Better to be a General than a Jobsworth .
Better to think decisively and with a strong , broad brush than to be bogged down with detail .
There have always been and always will be the need for clerks and those who derive gratification from dotting and crossing .Probably because they are very dotty themselves and cross with life for making them so boring .
You see where I am going .

Ozzy Osbourne a wrote a song about going there..

Quote:

Mental wounds not healing
Who and what's to blame
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train

smartcooky · 23rd June 2016, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Hans

Oh my that film was a serious example of stupid. Wish I could get that time back.

Yep, froot-loopery of the worse kind. There are three enormous holes in his explanation.

1. The vanishing point. If the Earth really is flat, the vanishing point of the observer's point of view is at the observer's eye height above the ground. If the observer is six feet tall, the vanishing point is six feet above ground level. If the observer is on top of a 10,000 foot mountain, the vanishing point is 10,000 feet above ground level. The video shows the sun BELOW his vanishing point (6pm), something that he himself implies is impossible, then he ignores the fact that his diagram shows exactly that.

2. The apparent diameter of the Sun. If the Earth really is flat, and the sun really is 3,000 miles above the surface and travels parallel to the Earth's surface, then it would appear to get smaller as it got further away from the observer. The difference would be dramatic - at twice the distance, the Sun would be half the apparent size it is overhead. By the time the Sun reached the horizon, it would appear little more than a small spot of bright light.

3. Relative angular velocity of the Sun. The Sun tracks across the sky at a rate of 1° every 4 min (15°/hr). This is an undeniable, observable fact. Taking the starting point as the Sun overhead the observer, if the Sun was travelling at a constant speed on a flat Earth, it would appear to get slower and slower as it approached the horizon. The only way to reconcile this with the ob served facts is for the Sun to accelerate as it approaches the horizon.... and it would never get there because in order to do so, it speed would need to reach infinity.

Dr.Sid · 23rd June 2016, 01:23 PM

I don't think those videos needs any debunking. They need praise, if anything, and you guys just don't follow. You are hopelessly locked in your debunking paradigms, unable to just enjoy nice things.

Hans · 23rd June 2016, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

I don't think those videos needs any debunking. They need praise, if anything, and you guys just don't follow. You are hopelessly locked in your debunking paradigms, unable to just enjoy nice things.

So Dr. Sid your suggestion is we should praise bad science, incredibility bad logic and idiocy and mediocre presentation making?

Why - remember that crap isn't an 'art' piece like say Lord of Rings which is full of bad science but we appreciate it as ar &, fantasy. The video above is someone saying they believe that.

dudalb · 23rd June 2016, 02:12 PM

And the last tiny doubt about Malbec being a Troll is removed.......

20th June 2016, 10:16 PM	#82
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,916	Originally Posted by Malbec Better to be a General than a Jobsworth . Better to think decisively and with a strong , broad brush than to be bogged down with detail . There have always been and always will be the need for clerks and those who derive gratification from dotting and crossing .Probably because they are very dotty themselves and cross with life for making them so boring . You see where I am going . Yes you are the person who cleans up after the person who cleans up after the clerks and the generals. You keep trying to pretend you are something great but always fall so short.....
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,916

20th June 2016, 10:18 PM	#83
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,916	Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser Yes, lots of people. That's why it was never actually thought the earth was flat until it was relatively recently added to history books to make our ancestors look stupid. And as it turns out, stupidity is something ageless, hence some people started believing it because they have some weird need to 'know the inside scoop'. Sad, but true. In most cases yes that is true but some cultures didn't develop the idea of a spherical world until quite late, some not until they encountered Europeans.
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,916

20th June 2016, 11:48 PM	#85
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,607	Originally Posted by Malbec Better to be a General than a Jobsworth . Better to think decisively and with a strong , broad brush than to be bogged down with detail . Better still to get your facts right and be correct. Originally Posted by Malbec There have always been and always will be the need for clerks and those who derive gratification from dotting and crossing .Probably because they are very dotty themselves and cross with life for making them so boring . And yet there is no need for those who make "strong and decisive" statements that are so clearly wrong. Originally Posted by Malbec You see where I am going . Down the garden path.
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,607	__________________ @tomhodden Never look up an E-book because this signature line told you. Especially not Dead Lament (ASIN: B00JEN1MWY). Or A Little Trouble (ASIN: B00GQFZZQW).

20th June 2016, 11:52 PM	#87
AdMan Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 10,293	Originally Posted by Malbec Better to be a General than a Jobsworth . Better to think decisively and with a strong , broad brush than to be bogged down with detail . There have always been and always will be the need for clerks and those who derive gratification from dotting and crossing .Probably because they are very dotty themselves and cross with life for making them so boring . You see where I am going . I do see. Certainly rebelling against the draconian rules of punctuation sets one apart as a great maverick challenging the very tenets that we have been spoon-fed since we were children. But then you spouted that flat-earth drivel, and I'm sorry to say that--extra spaces or no--you're talking ignorant bull ****.
	__________________ As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities. - Voltaire.

20th June 2016, 11:52 PM	#88
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,607	Originally Posted by Malbec Absolutely brilliant . I wonder if anybody has thought of that before ? Oooooh. I see what you did there. But now you have a problem. After being so...er... "pithy" about how this problem has been acknowledged since ancient Greece, you should probably have an answer for it. Can you reconcile a flat Earth with this observable evidence? (Little hint. If you expensive "private" school gave you a Classical Education that was boast worthy, you might have had an answer for this, instead of a hollow pithy remark. Just saying....)
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,607	__________________ @tomhodden Never look up an E-book because this signature line told you. Especially not Dead Lament (ASIN: B00JEN1MWY). Or A Little Trouble (ASIN: B00GQFZZQW).

20th June 2016, 09:47 PM	#81
Lukraak_Sisser Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,546	Originally Posted by Malbec Absolutely brilliant . I wonder if anybody has thought of that before ? Yes, lots of people. That's why it was never actually thought the earth was flat until it was relatively recently added to history books to make our ancestors look stupid. And as it turns out, stupidity is something ageless, hence some people started believing it because they have some weird need to 'know the inside scoop'. Sad, but true.

20th June 2016, 11:43 PM	#84
Nakani Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Acho Dene Koe Posts: 1,014	Originally Posted by NoahFence When we fly at altitude, we're high enough to see the curve of the earth. /thread I see someone has never been to the flat earth society forum. The sun shines a circle of light on the earth and you are looking at the curved edge of the illuminated part.

20th June 2016, 11:49 PM	#86
Rincewind Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Adirondacks, NY - with Magrat! Posts: 8,716	The Earth is clearly flat - just like discworld! After all, if it was spherical, all the antipodeans would fall off! (assuming, of course, that Australasia actually exists...)

20th June 2016, 11:53 PM	#89
MikeG Now. Do it now. Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: UK Posts: 24,804	Originally Posted by Malbec Absolutely brilliant . I wonder if anybody has thought of that before ? *You* clearly didn't, General. Your broadbrush strategy and decisive thinking missed the boring little detail that any fool can look out of a plane window and actually see that the earth isn't flat. You haven't the time for such nitpicking little details, but you've plenty of time for self aggrandisement and to sneer.
	__________________ "The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here. Last edited by MikeG; 21st June 2016 at 12:12 AM.

20th June 2016, 11:55 PM	#90
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,607	Originally Posted by AdMan I do see. Certainly rebelling against the draconian rules of punctuation sets one apart as a great maverick challenging the very tenets that we have been spoon-fed since we were children. But then you spouted that flat-earth drivel, and I'm sorry to say that--extra spaces or no--you're talking ignorant bull ****. "I don't look at the details. I let other people look at the details. That way I don't have to know how wrong I am..."
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,607	__________________ @tomhodden Never look up an E-book because this signature line told you. Especially not Dead Lament (ASIN: B00JEN1MWY). Or A Little Trouble (ASIN: B00GQFZZQW).

21st June 2016, 01:55 AM	#91
tinribmancer Hasbarian NWO Templar Cattle Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: The Intergalatic Solar System! Posts: 1,692	Originally Posted by Malbec Better to be a General than a Jobsworth . Better to think decisively and with a strong , broad brush than to be bogged down with detail . There have always been and always will be the need for clerks and those who derive gratification from dotting and crossing .Probably because they are very dotty themselves and cross with life for making them so boring . You see where I am going . I do, but I don't know what it's called in english...
	__________________ "Bravery Is Not A Function Of Firepower." - JC Denton "And belief in conspiracy theories is not the function of a higher intellect." - BStrong

21st June 2016, 05:45 AM	#92
Kid Eager Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 7,296	Originally Posted by Rincewind The Earth is clearly flat - just like discworld! After all, if it was spherical, all the antipodeans would fall off! (assuming, of course, that Australasia actually exists...) Perhaps if I sent you some of our faster spiders, that might convince you?
Kid Eager Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 7,296	__________________ What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it....

21st June 2016, 05:48 AM	#93
Kid Eager Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 7,296	Originally Posted by Malbec Better to be a General than a Jobsworth . Better to think decisively and with a strong , broad brush than to be bogged down with detail . There have always been and always will be the need for clerks and those who derive gratification from dotting and crossing .Probably because they are very dotty themselves and cross with life for making them so boring . You see where I am going . General Page Fault?
Kid Eager Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 7,296	__________________ What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it....

21st June 2016, 07:28 AM	#94
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 19,792	Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser Yes, lots of people. That's why it was never actually thought the earth was flat until it was relatively recently added to history books to make our ancestors look stupid. And as it turns out, stupidity is something ageless, hence some people started believing it because they have some weird need to 'know the inside scoop'. Sad, but true. The idea that most people thought that the earth was flat until Columbus proved it a sphere is most certainly a giant load of crap. Pretty much everyone of any learning in the European world accepted that the earth was a round ball in the late 15th century, and had thought so for a couple of millennia. But it's true that ancient civilizations like the Babylonians, Sumerians and Egyptians had a cosmology that represented the earth as a flat plain. But even then it was far different from the zetetic model of the modern day gnostic cult of flat-earthers. Back when the stories that eventually became the Tanakh were being invented, the commonly accepted state of the universe looked like this. Sorry, can't get images to post for some reason. And it's not that they were dumber than us, they just didn't have the information that later generations had. They still made excellent observations of the sun, moon, planets and stars. That's why they never imagined that the sun and moon circle above the surface of the earth, because unlike modern flat-earthers, they could do geometry.
	__________________ Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.

21st June 2016, 08:45 AM	#95
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 34,187	Originally Posted by Malbec Absolutely brilliant . I wonder if anybody has thought of that before ? Since you've returned, Malbec, here is a multiple choice question for you: Do you believe, based on the video you linked, that the earth is flat? A) Yes, the evidence on the video is convincing. B) Not sure, but the evidence is interesting. C) I did, but the responses in this thread have convinced me otherwise. (No shame in that!) D) No, I just wanted to see how other posters here would react to it. E) Other (please state).
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21st June 2016, 09:36 AM	#96
alexi_drago Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,353	Originally Posted by Meadmaker The flat Earth, all explained with mathematical constructs. But....no actual math. No, they do use math, just the wrong math, and used very badly. You will regularly see them using the calculation 'height in inches=8*(distance in miles^2)' when calculating the curve of the so called ball earth, it's an approximation which is close enough for purpose for relatively short distances but they insist on using it even for larger distances. Not only that though, they don't seem to understand what it is it calculates and think it's the height the top of the curve reaches relative to the cord between 2 points on a circle rather than the drop from the tangent plane. They tend to steer clear of things like trigonometry and geometry, either it's too difficult for them or it doesn't give them the answers they want.
	__________________ The secret NASA doesn't want you to know - God makes rockets work in space.

21st June 2016, 10:34 AM	#97
Nakani Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Acho Dene Koe Posts: 1,014	I don't know about the rest of you but I've been to the FES forum....an..and I saw stuff....stupid stuff, lots of it. Its hard to pin down the FEer, I was curious, when I heard of the Flat earth society. I thought it was just a club where the main purpose was to get away from your spouse for a while, or something. Then I checked out the forum, it is very hard to tell if they actually believe what they are saying. It appears to be just an exercise in debating, where you just pick a side and do your best to make a case. It seems like the believers are believers just to accent their personality with a bit of qwerky, its fun when people think your crazy, it gives you a power over others. I suspect Malbec might fall into that category, I think there are true believers but they are rare.
	Last edited by Nakani; 21st June 2016 at 10:35 AM.

21st June 2016, 11:16 AM	#98
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 32,566	Originally Posted by Malbec Absolutely brilliant . I wonder if anybody has thought of that before ? Many, but apparently not the person who made the video you so admiringly cited. I do wonder about this. If you saw something very clear and obvious, that made sense according to all the conventional wisdom, that fit with the ideas of mainstream science and with your own perception, why would you give credence to a person who says his math contradicts it, unless you yourself understand the math? You can go up in a plane, and, like millions of other people, you can see the curvature of the earth. Which agrees with physics, astronauts' observations, and various wise people from Eratosthenes on. A stranger on the internet just told me everyone else is wrong, and he claims he has some math. Oh me oh my, whatever shall I do?
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) "There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)

21st June 2016, 12:05 PM	#99
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 26,160	Originally Posted by Nakani I see someone has never been to the flat earth society forum. The sun shines a circle of light on the earth and you are looking at the curved edge of the illuminated part. I understand that the light's curvature is caused by the rapid revolution of William of Occam's corpse about its axis.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

21st June 2016, 01:00 PM	#100
Nakani Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Acho Dene Koe Posts: 1,014	Originally Posted by jimbob I understand that the light's curvature is caused by the rapid revolution of William of Occam's corpse about its axis. Could be, could be. That is one of the things I find funny about their logic, the majority of the belief comes from a religious standpoint. This makes me wonder why, an omnipotent god would construct some kind of Rube Goldberg world that requires so much intervention. Surely, there was an easier way.

21st June 2016, 05:14 PM	#101
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 21,501	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Not to mention that stellar parallax CAN be seen and measured if you have a good enough setup. And has been since 1838! Originally Posted by GlennB That's right. Don't they measure the distance of nearby Cepheid variables that way, leading to getting a handle on much greater stellar distances? My astronomy studies were so long ago that the constellations have changed shape since then ... and further to that, the satellite Hipparcos which was launched in 1989, had a primary mission of measuring the parallaxes and proper motions of nearby stars. It can measure stellar parallaxes for stars as far away as 1,500 light years. Since 2013, the ESA's Gaia mission increased the accuracy of stellar parallax measurements down to about 10µ arc-seconds, pushing the measurable range out to about 35,000 light years. Of course, if you're one of the nutbars who think that rockets don't work in space and satellites are fake, then its pretty moot.
	__________________ Science supplies evidence, invites you to analyse and evaluate that evidence, and then to draw conclusions from that Religion supplies no evidence, demands you have faith, and expects you to uncritically and automatically believe that something is true simply because "the Bible tells you so" If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list! Last edited by smartcooky; 21st June 2016 at 05:16 PM.

22nd June 2016, 02:21 AM	#102
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,882	We all know NASA and other space agencies are part of the conspiracy to hide the true nature of the Flat Earth.

22nd June 2016, 02:56 AM	#103
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,102	Originally Posted by jimbob If you play around with physical laws enough* and make them vary sufficiently, you probably could build a complicated edifice which fits the observations Varying refractive index would be an obvious one - and I can imagine if you vary other things in the same way it might work. Why one would want to I am not sure. *Including distance Well a toroidal planet could exist...
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

22nd June 2016, 08:33 AM	#104
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 21,737	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop We all know NASA and other space agencies are part of the conspiracy to hide the true nature of the Flat Earth. Which of course has bugger all to do with the billions of dollars yearly spent on private spacefaring, so all those engineering and insurance companies must be in on it as well.

22nd June 2016, 08:45 AM	#105
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 3,770	Really nice video. Well explained, not overly complex, and the CG is very good. That's science for you.

22nd June 2016, 02:08 PM	#106
alexi_drago Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,353	Great video showing how the sun appears to set on flat earth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_ipGoFf2Ss It's all a matter of perspective.
	__________________ The secret NASA doesn't want you to know - God makes rockets work in space.

22nd June 2016, 02:49 PM	#107
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 3,770	Originally Posted by alexi_drago Great video showing how the sun appears to set on flat earth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_ipGoFf2Ss It's all a matter of perspective. Another gem of ingenuity. I always had problems visualizing the Sun setting over the flat Earth. Music is good too.

22nd June 2016, 03:52 PM	#108
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,882	Originally Posted by JayUtah Which of course has bugger all to do with the billions of dollars yearly spent on private spacefaring, so all those engineering and insurance companies must be in on it as well. Of course they are. It's all part of the hoax, anything you can come up with is part of the hoax if it's needed. You know this.

22nd June 2016, 04:39 PM	#109
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581	Originally Posted by tinribmancer I do, but I don't know what it's called in english... I know where he is going in more than one language but I can't write it here in a way it will be recognized but ok to say.
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581

22nd June 2016, 04:42 PM	#110
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581	Originally Posted by Kid Eager General Page Fault? General Catastrophe General Confusion General ****up
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581

22nd June 2016, 05:25 PM	#111
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 21,501	Originally Posted by RogueKitten Someone who claims the earth is flat is only demonstrating that they've never traveled far from home. You can literally see the curvature of the earth from airplanes or boats. In 1987 I was very fortunate to have been a passenger on the Kuiper Airborne Observatory (a modified Lockheed C-141 Starlifter fitted with a 90 cm telescope) when it was on one of its flights out of Christchurch to observe the Supernova 1987a. The KAO flew higher than most commercial airliners (often up to 45,000 feet) and because it flew on clear, crisp nights over the Southern Ocean, the "seeing" was just extraordinary. With that altitude, and the panoramic view from the cockpit, the curvature of the Earth was very easy to see in the twilight before the observing runs actually started. plane spotters will notice that this is above the C141's service ceiling of 41,000ft. The KAO was a highly modified C-141, rated for the higher altitude http://science.nasa.gov/missions/kao/
	__________________ Science supplies evidence, invites you to analyse and evaluate that evidence, and then to draw conclusions from that Religion supplies no evidence, demands you have faith, and expects you to uncritically and automatically believe that something is true simply because "the Bible tells you so" If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list!

22nd June 2016, 06:34 PM	#112
benbradley Scholar Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 71	I stopped the video at six seconds to read the caption (which, as I discovered replaying it, doesn't match the spoken text). "[NASA and modern astronomy claim] Earth is ... suspended in infinite space." No, there is no infinite space. One might argue the words were used metaphorically, but I don't think a scientist (unless he's changed careers to be a Public Guru of New Age Science, like Michio Kaku) would say that, because it's misleading, AND it's not true. Double-checking, the video is 11 minutes - look how much time I've saved by not watching it!
benbradley Scholar Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 71

23rd June 2016, 02:43 AM	#113
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 3,770	Originally Posted by benbradley I stopped the video at six seconds to read the caption (which, as I discovered replaying it, doesn't match the spoken text). "[NASA and modern astronomy claim] Earth is ... suspended in infinite space." No, there is no infinite space. One might argue the words were used metaphorically, but I don't think a scientist (unless he's changed careers to be a Public Guru of New Age Science, like Michio Kaku) would say that, because it's misleading, AND it's not true. Double-checking, the video is 11 minutes - look how much time I've saved by not watching it! You missed great opportunity to educate yourself.

23rd June 2016, 08:58 AM	#114
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,916	Oh my that film was a serious example of stupid. Wish I could get that time back.
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,916

23rd June 2016, 10:48 AM	#115
tinribmancer Hasbarian NWO Templar Cattle Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: The Intergalatic Solar System! Posts: 1,692	Originally Posted by Hans Oh my that film was a serious example of stupid. Wish I could get that time back. Did you suffer any braindamage from watching it? I do wonder what makes a flat earther believe that the Earth is flat? The whole idea sound so preposterous.
	__________________ "Bravery Is Not A Function Of Firepower." - JC Denton "And belief in conspiracy theories is not the function of a higher intellect." - BStrong