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Tags N. Korea-China relations , North Korea incidents

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Old 8th June 2010, 02:44 AM   #1
Undesired Walrus
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North Korean soldier shoots three Chinese dead

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...c/10263325.stm

Quote:
China says a North Korean border guard shot and killed three people on the Chinese side of the border last week.

A fourth person was injured in the incident in the north-eastern border town of Dandong, China said.

China has made a formal complaint to North Korea, a spokesman for the Chinese foreign ministry said.
And:

Quote:

The two countries are normally close allies. It is unusual for China to make any public criticism of its neighbour.
Progress I suppose.
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Old 8th June 2010, 06:41 AM   #2
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Well, to be fair, the three DID look like South Korean ships.

Michael
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Old 8th June 2010, 06:43 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by coalesce View Post
Well, to be fair, the three DID look like South Korean ships.

Michael
And one of them turned a cartwheel.
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Old 8th June 2010, 06:47 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
And one of them turned a cartwheel.
I hate when that happens...

Wait! Maybe one of them was an air marshal trying to get on a plane with a gun...

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Old 8th June 2010, 06:47 AM   #5
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<CT mode ON>

I wonder if this actually happened, or if China's making it up.

China has to see the DPRK as something of a liability these days, doubly so since the Cheonan. Something like this could give them an excuse to distance themselves from Kim without losing face.


Just a random thought.
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Old 8th June 2010, 07:21 AM   #6
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Maybe, but that would mean that by pulling away from North Korea, China would, in essence, move closer to the United States. And given this article, I find that a little hard to believe.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...print/asection

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Old 8th June 2010, 07:26 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
<CT mode ON>

I wonder if this actually happened, or if China's making it up.

China has to see the DPRK as something of a liability these days, doubly so since the Cheonan. Something like this could give them an excuse to distance themselves from Kim without losing face.


Just a random thought.
You forgot to turn the CT mode off.
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Old 8th June 2010, 07:54 AM   #8
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At the same time, CNN has an article up this morning on the impending transfer of power from Kim to his son:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapc...le+Feedfetcher
Difficult to say if this will presage any change in NK policies, but at present it appears they are dead-set on being confrontational.
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Old 8th June 2010, 07:55 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by coalesce View Post
Maybe, but that would mean that by pulling away from North Korea, China would, in essence, move closer to the United States. And given this article, I find that a little hard to believe.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...print/asection

Michael
I don't think that seeing eye to eye on some issues necessarily means that China would be 'moving closer' to the United States in general terms. Also you might have the carriage in front of the horse- China's interest isn't necessarily to oppose the US, but China at times opposes the US because of its interests.
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Old 8th June 2010, 08:01 AM   #10
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The fact that they did not just catch the bullets proves that their Kung-Fu was weak!

All those movies have just been propaganda, now is the time to attack!
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Old 8th June 2010, 11:14 AM   #11
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If NK suceeds in alienating the Chinese, they will have achieved the Paranoid's fantasy; The whole world will be against them.
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Old 8th June 2010, 01:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If NK suceeds in alienating the Chinese, they will have achieved the Paranoid's fantasy; The whole world will be against them.
Does the Democratic Republic of the Congo need a new buddy?

Shining examples of democracy should stick together.
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Old 8th June 2010, 05:25 PM   #13
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Illegal trade -- including trafficking in children and women -- is common along that border. All of the reports in China seem to be emphasizing that the Chinese who were shot, were shot because they were suspected of crossing the border for illegal purposes.

China's not exactly ecstatic about this, but nor are they particularly upset. They routinely arrest/imprison Chinese caught doing this, and arrest/deport North Koreans who are caught. In short, it really doesn't seem like a particularly major political incident.
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Old 11th June 2010, 10:00 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
Illegal trade -- including trafficking in children and women -- is common along that border. All of the reports in China seem to be emphasizing that the Chinese who were shot, were shot because they were suspected of crossing the border for illegal purposes.

China's not exactly ecstatic about this, but nor are they particularly upset. They routinely arrest/imprison Chinese caught doing this, and arrest/deport North Koreans who are caught. In short, it really doesn't seem like a particularly major political incident.
I was surprised, I have a Chinese friend living in N. Korean bordering Liaoning Province, and while he mentioned the shooting, he didn't seem upset or concerned by it.
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Old 11th June 2010, 12:34 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
Illegal trade -- including trafficking in children and women -- is common along that border. All of the reports in China seem to be emphasizing that the Chinese who were shot, were shot because they were suspected of crossing the border for illegal purposes.

China's not exactly ecstatic about this, but nor are they particularly upset. They routinely arrest/imprison Chinese caught doing this, and arrest/deport North Koreans who are caught. In short, it really doesn't seem like a particularly major political incident.
(Bolding mine). How is this possible? One gets the impression that the North Korean border zone is ten miles deep and consists of endless barbed wire, mines, rabid guard dogs and rabid guards. Is this not true of the NK/Chinese border?

Also, if it's not a major incident, why publicise it?
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Old 11th June 2010, 12:39 PM   #16
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I'm pretty sure there is a famous river dividing a certain part of China and North Korea. In the winter it is alleged some North Koreans flee over its frozen surface to China. It's said by the winter's end that the ice is riddled with bullet holes.
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Old 11th June 2010, 12:40 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Comsat Angel View Post
(Bolding mine). How is this possible? One gets the impression that the North Korean border zone is ten miles deep and consists of endless barbed wire, mines, rabid guard dogs and rabid guards. Is this not true of the NK/Chinese border?
That's true of the DMZ between North and South Korea, but not between Korea and China. There's even a bridge.
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Old 11th June 2010, 12:49 PM   #18
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Maybe he didn't know they were Chinese. Those orientals all look alike.
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Old 11th June 2010, 05:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
North Korean soldier shoots three Chinese dead
Can we arrange to get this guy about two billion more bullets? Seems he has a good idea ...

(OK, y'all are gonna throw rocks at me for that one. Cast away ... )
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Old 11th June 2010, 05:36 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
Illegal trade -- including trafficking in children and women -- is common along that border. All of the reports in China seem to be emphasizing that the Chinese who were shot, were shot because they were suspected of crossing the border for illegal purposes.
Funny, that sounds sorta like the Texican/Messkin border.

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Old 11th June 2010, 05:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
I was surprised, I have a Chinese friend living in N. Korean bordering Liaoning Province, and while he mentioned the shooting, he didn't seem upset or concerned by it.
Probably because he wasn't the one shot.
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Old 12th June 2010, 01:51 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Comsat Angel View Post
(Bolding mine). How is this possible? One gets the impression that the North Korean border zone is ten miles deep and consists of endless barbed wire, mines, rabid guard dogs and rabid guards. Is this not true of the NK/Chinese border?

Also, if it's not a major incident, why publicise it?
North and South Korea are in a permanent state of war; of course their border is militarized. China and North Korea, on the other hand, are historical allies. There are actually very few border controls, and vast tracts of land that one can get across relatively easily.

With the shortage of women in China, one of the options is to buy a North Korean bride. The money will be paid to her family, and she'll be smuggled across the border into China to join her new husband. Since she enters China illegally, she'll have no passport or visa, and thus no legal rights; her husband can do pretty much whatever he wants, and she has no recourse to seek help.
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Last edited by Wolfman; 12th June 2010 at 02:57 AM.
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Old 12th June 2010, 02:00 AM   #23
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With the shortage of women in China, one of the options is to "buy" a North Korean bride. The money will be paid to her family, and she'll be smuggled across the border into China to join her new husband.
its not "buy" its plain and simple buy.
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Old 12th June 2010, 02:56 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
its not "buy" its plain and simple buy.
Very good point.

*fixed*

Oh...and by the way...it's not "its", it's "it's" plain and simple
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Old 12th June 2010, 08:36 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
Very good point.

*fixed*

Oh...and by the way...it's not "its", it's "it's" plain and simple
very good point
but cant fix it anymore plaind and simple
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Old 15th June 2010, 01:15 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
North and South Korea are in a permanent state of war; of course their border is militarized. China and North Korea, on the other hand, are historical allies. There are actually very few border controls, and vast tracts of land that one can get across relatively easily.

With the shortage of women in China, one of the options is to buy a North Korean bride. The money will be paid to her family, and she'll be smuggled across the border into China to join her new husband. Since she enters China illegally, she'll have no passport or visa, and thus no legal rights; her husband can do pretty much whatever he wants, and she has no recourse to seek help.
Thanks, Wolfman, a very interesting answer.

I do wonder, then, why China doesn't have a more "formally-organised" (i.e. miles of barbed wire, mines, rabid - etc etc) border, if their supposed fear of millions of starving North Koreans heading China-wards in the event of a national collapse, is correct?
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Old 15th June 2010, 11:56 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Comsat Angel View Post
Thanks, Wolfman, a very interesting answer.

I do wonder, then, why China doesn't have a more "formally-organised" (i.e. miles of barbed wire, mines, rabid - etc etc) border, if their supposed fear of millions of starving North Koreans heading China-wards in the event of a national collapse, is correct?
The sort of barrier a country would erect is different depending on if it fears starving people flooding into the country or unfriendly armed forces. A simple barrier would be enough for the former.
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Old 16th June 2010, 01:38 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Comsat Angel View Post
Thanks, Wolfman, a very interesting answer.

I do wonder, then, why China doesn't have a more "formally-organised" (i.e. miles of barbed wire, mines, rabid - etc etc) border, if their supposed fear of millions of starving North Koreans heading China-wards in the event of a national collapse, is correct?
I'd say there are three reasons:

1) Putting up such a border defense would be taken very negatively by the paranoid North Korean leadership; the most likely response would be a sudden massive build-up of N. Korean troops along the Chinese border.

2) The North Koreans do a pretty damn good job of keeping their people in...its really only a small number who manage to get out. There's no massive wave of unwanted refugees.

3) The majority of North Koreans who do make it into China are smuggled in (brides, labor, etc.) with the aid of Chinese, and have a place here. These aren't refugees who are causing problems for China...and as such, are not a priority for the Chinese gov't. Those refugees who do come to the attention of the Chinese government are simply picked up and shipped back to N. Korea (where at best they'll be imprisoned and 're-educated'; at worst they'll be executed).
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Old 16th June 2010, 06:41 AM   #29
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On one of the northern DPRK beaches there is a long wire fence to keep the locals in. It's crudely made up to look like an deadly electric fence, with red buttons and the like, but really it is just a wire fence.
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