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Tags Kim Jong-un , North Korea incidents , North Korea issues , US-North Korea relations

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Old 16th April 2017, 06:06 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
They paraded some "new" missiles. I wonder if they have some special blank missiles that are painted a different color each year?
Were they the ones who faked a new aircraft six or seven years ago - or it may have been Middle East though.........
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Old 16th April 2017, 06:13 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
They have detonated nukes and are working on an ICBM. The US made a lot of mistakes too during development. Eventually we got it right. NK are the most annoying sabre-rattlers around, but they may actually be nearing a point where they can strike us or others.

I'm more sickened thinking of the plight of the people of NK though rather than whatever missile Kim has developed. It's a concern, but those poor people have been suffering for a very long time.
They could start a revolt even if loads die doing it. They do not seem to have done that yet. My rule is that if you are in a country with really nasty bad guys in charge and they are killing people then you need to do your best to kill the bad guys yourselves. If you do not then you should have no expectation of other people killing them for you.
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Old 16th April 2017, 06:26 PM   #43
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Kim Jong Un reminds me a lot of Donald Trump, both big on bluster and bluff. While it is a bit fun watching Kim come up against a type he is not used to, the results of a game of nuclear chicken may not be so much fun.
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Old 16th April 2017, 06:41 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Nosi View Post
From what I understand N Korea has two satellites flying in an orbit over the USA that can give off an EMP Pulse. Those can destroy our electrical grid. That's nothing to sneeze at.

This Korea stuff does offer distraction to all the White House incompetence stories flying about. Is Trump wagging the dog?

If NK had the ability to launch EMP Satellites into orbit, then it would already have the ability to drop nukes anywhere in the US or on Earth.

Which actually raises a point. If NK's leadership was actually intelligent, they would stop the saber rattling, and then switch their Nuclear testing to Software simulated like the rest of the world and convert their ICBM program into a space program to launch their first communications and Weather satellites.
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Old 16th April 2017, 07:45 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
If NK's leadership was actually intelligent, they would stop the saber rattling, and then switch their Nuclear testing to Software simulated like the rest of the world and convert their ICBM program into a space program to launch their first communications and Weather satellites.
Communications and weather satellites? No. Those are mostly going to be geosynchronous orbits. Low earth orbit is good enough for military applications. And as a matter of fact, they have pursued a "space" program:

http://www.space.com/31860-north-kor...te-launch.html
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Old 16th April 2017, 07:49 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Were they the ones who faked a new aircraft six or seven years ago - or it may have been Middle East though.........
Iran fakes military technology on a pretty regular basis. This might be what you're thinking of, though it's a little more recent:
https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...t-fake/318714/
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Old 16th April 2017, 08:08 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
They could start a revolt even if loads die doing it. They do not seem to have done that yet. My rule is that if you are in a country with really nasty bad guys in charge and they are killing people then you need to do your best to kill the bad guys yourselves. If you do not then you should have no expectation of other people killing them for you.
That's some compassionate **** right there!
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Old 16th April 2017, 08:39 PM   #48
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Idle thought: I wonder if the missile failure was intentional. A successful launch would've probably invited an attack from the US, while failing to launch would've lost face with Kim's generals.
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Old 16th April 2017, 08:53 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Idle thought: I wonder if the missile failure was intentional. A successful launch would've probably invited an attack from the US, while failing to launch would've lost face with Kim's generals.

As of a couple hours ago, there still had been no mention of the launch on state media. They could have just postponed if that would have served their purposes better and no one outside of the program and inner party would have ever believed otherwise. I doubt the generals are happier today with the fireball.

I just can't see an intentional failure/abort... especially on Lil' Kim's B-Day.
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Old 17th April 2017, 04:37 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
I think there are rocket scientists in North Korea whose job security is now in jeopardy and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
I doubt if there would be many top notch rocket scientists in NK. If they get rid of one or two then that would delay further progress.
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Old 17th April 2017, 05:11 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Kim Jong Un reminds me a lot of Donald Trump, both big on bluster and bluff. While it is a bit fun watching Kim come up against a type he is not used to, the results of a game of nuclear chicken may not be so much fun.
A lot of South Koreans are more worried about Trump than Kim. He seems much more likely to do something stupid with negative consequences for them. He has that horrible American trait of thinking it's OK to play politics with the lives of people in other countries.
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Old 17th April 2017, 05:35 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I doubt if there would be many top notch rocket scientists in NK. If they get rid of one or two then that would delay further progress.

I'm not so sure, though I know nothing of their education system.
But they get to ignore the normal social pressures and freedom of choice the west is used to. Hell... they don't even need parental permission.

You want physicists, doctors, mechanics or farmers?
Test for the aptitudes you select and Bob's your uncle.
China already does much the same for their competitive sports (they're taking over Snooker as we speak, just because they feel like it) and may do something similar in academia.

No need to wait for whatever personnel... just train 'em up (usual delays for schooling apply of course). Their social programming will assure an acceptable level of "enthusiasm". Who am I kidding... it's certainly a "great honor" to be selected. The more challenging the discipline, the better your family eats.
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Old 17th April 2017, 05:44 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I doubt if there would be many top notch rocket scientists in NK. If they get rid of one or two then that would delay further progress.
I think everyone is ignoring the fact that many of the scientists are NOT Korean. In fact, I'd guess there's only a few Koreans in the group.
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Old 17th April 2017, 06:12 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
A lot of South Koreans are more worried about Trump than Kim. He seems much more likely to do something stupid with negative consequences for them. He has that horrible American trait of thinking it's OK to play politics with the lives of people in other countries.
Yea, South Koreans read newspapers too, you know. They are not "critical thinkers" like everyone here.

This issue has been a festering sore for far too long. South Koreans fully realize they are being held hostage for resolving the problem, once and for all. There is no easy solution, likely not a prudent military option at all. The key is China. Perhaps that will change, perhaps not.

Part of the reason this bellicose is being taken so seriously now, is three fold. First it's that time of year that the Norks raise hell because of the annual exercises. Next, there will be an Presidential election here on 9 May due to the previous President being impeached for corruption. The leading candidate is now a liberal. They are not likely to be as accommodating as a conservative Administration. They will cooperate, but not as enthusiastically as a conservative administration. They will also likely provide unfettered aid to the Norks. The last time that happened it embolden them and provided funds to accelerate the Norks nuclear program. And the last reason you're seeing so many high level US Officials visiting is because if that doesn't happen to reassure them, South Korea is likely to develop their own Nukes. Next, the Japanese will want them too. So, here we go with the nuclearization of the entire Pacific Rim nations. They could both do it in a heartbeat.

Your distrust or criticism of Trump is for naught. He is the US President and the has multiple advisors who understand the situation much better than most. He trusts them, but he does need to stop his onerous tweeting.
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Old 17th April 2017, 06:52 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Why do you think that? The evidence that exists suggests he is very much in control given that he has purged so many of the top brass.

Thanks. It's like seeing people talking about Captain T of the Starship Enterprise.
What is that supposed to mean?


As for Un being nothing but a figurehead, that's pure ignorance.

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Old 17th April 2017, 06:56 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I doubt if there would be many top notch rocket scientists in NK. If they get rid of one or two then that would delay further progress.
What do you base this assumption on?

So many people in this thread know so little about NK, most of this thread is nothing but uninformed speculation.
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Old 17th April 2017, 06:59 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
I'm not so sure, though I know nothing of their education system.
But they get to ignore the normal social pressures and freedom of choice the west is used to. Hell... they don't even need parental permission.

You want physicists, doctors, mechanics or farmers?
Test for the aptitudes you select and Bob's your uncle.
China already does much the same for their competitive sports (they're taking over Snooker as we speak, just because they feel like it) and may do something similar in academia.

No need to wait for whatever personnel... just train 'em up (usual delays for schooling apply of course). Their social programming will assure an acceptable level of "enthusiasm". Who am I kidding... it's certainly a "great honor" to be selected. The more challenging the discipline, the better your family eats.
I believe the system is more that the upper crust's children all get higher education. But they also get the same steady diet of totalitarian propaganda their whole lives.
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Old 17th April 2017, 07:03 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Yea, South Koreans read newspapers too, you know. They are not "critical thinkers" like everyone here.

This issue has been a festering sore for far too long. South Koreans fully realize they are being held hostage for resolving the problem, once and for all. There is no easy solution, likely not a prudent military option at all. The key is China. Perhaps that will change, perhaps not.

Part of the reason this bellicose is being taken so seriously now, is three fold. First it's that time of year that the Norks raise hell because of the annual exercises. Next, there will be an Presidential election here on 9 May due to the previous President being impeached for corruption. The leading candidate is now a liberal. They are not likely to be as accommodating as a conservative Administration. They will cooperate, but not as enthusiastically as a conservative administration. They will also likely provide unfettered aid to the Norks. The last time that happened it embolden them and provided funds to accelerate the Norks nuclear program. And the last reason you're seeing so many high level US Officials visiting is because if that doesn't happen to reassure them, South Korea is likely to develop their own Nukes. Next, the Japanese will want them too. So, here we go with the nuclearization of the entire Pacific Rim nations. They could both do it in a heartbeat.

Your distrust or criticism of Trump is for naught. He is the US President and the has multiple advisors who understand the situation much better than most. He trusts them, but he does need to stop his onerous tweeting.
I'm not sure i suggested South Koreans don't read newspapers. So not sure what the eyeroll is about.

South Koreans have dealt with the Kim's to the north for decades and had very little fear that there was any real threat from him. Once you add the unpredictable Trump to that mix the chances of something stupid happening multiply. That's the concern.

And yes tweeting threats to NK is not big or clever. And i doubt he would be doing it if the likely battleground was Seattle rather than Seoul.
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Old 17th April 2017, 07:19 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I believe the system is more that the upper crust's children all get higher education. But they also get the same steady diet of totalitarian propaganda their whole lives.

I agree completely, though I expect there's at least some socialist upward mobility.

My thought was that there's no problem at all growing their own stable of rocket surgeons. And it's neither new tech nor new ambitions... if I'm on the mark, they've been doing it for decades.
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Old 17th April 2017, 07:35 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
I'm not sure i suggested South Koreans don't read newspapers. So not sure what the eyeroll is about.
The news media is all about how bad Trump is. Do you not read that tripe. Apparently you read it here. Some people believe that perhaps to include you.

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
South Koreans have dealt with the Kim's to the north for decades and had very little fear that there was any real threat from him. Once you add the unpredictable Trump to that mix the chances of something stupid happening multiply. That's the concern.
Do you not realize that's all changed? How much have they managed to reduce the size of their nukes? Will they fit on a short range missile. It is simply no longer an SK problem.

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
And yes tweeting threats to NK is not big or clever. And i doubt he would be doing it if the likely battleground was Seattle rather than Seoul.
Don't bet on it. NK needs to understand that South Korea will become an island if they try any of the crap they've threatened. That might work or not while searching for a solution to the problem.
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Old 17th April 2017, 07:44 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
The news media is all about how bad Trump is. Do you not read that tripe. Apparently you read it here. Some people believe that perhaps to include you.



Do you not realize that's all changed? How much have they managed to reduce the size of their nukes? Will they fit on a short range missile. It is simply no longer an SK problem.



Don't bet on it. NK needs to understand that South Korea will become an island if they try any of the crap they've threatened. That might work or not while searching for a solution to the problem.
Nothing has changed except US sabre rattling. Something they are very happy to do when the stakes are for other people to pay. Right until some white men start coming back in body bags. Then it's a price too high to pay.

Pretty much how it has been for decades.
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Old 17th April 2017, 08:01 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
That's some compassionate **** right there!
My compassion is for our military and the families of our military who have died or been incapacitated in those places doing what the people there should be doing on their own. Especially in places that want us to help them but do not cooperate with us - whether out of fear or religious beliefs or other reasons. Or, worse, want to limit how we do what needs to be done. All of those have clearly been factors in most places we have gone in to help.
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Old 17th April 2017, 08:04 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
I think everyone is ignoring the fact that many of the scientists are NOT Korean. In fact, I'd guess there's only a few Koreans in the group.
Would be nice if they were disappeared. Permanently!!!
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Old 17th April 2017, 09:13 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Job security????? I suspect they and families will be put in a stadium and have grenades thrown at them randomly!!!!!
North Korea: Where getting fired often involves a firing squad.
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Old 17th April 2017, 09:17 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
I think there are rocket scientists in North Korea whose job security is now in jeopardy and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
To heck with the rocket scientists. I want to know what happened to the barber that gave him that haircut.

On second thought, maybe he's trying to outdo Trump in the bad hair competition.
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Old 17th April 2017, 02:18 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
I think he's referring to persons (generally Asian I believe) basically kidnapped for the State's needs.

I don't know the extant of the practice, it's done I just don't know how rampantly, but it'd be pretty heartless to refer to those victims that way... don't you think?
If you mean the nuke specialists, unless they could get in and pull them out safely then that only leaves the other method. I do not want a nuclear NK unless we nuke it or FAB it thoroughly the day it officially is.
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Old 17th April 2017, 03:12 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
The news media is all about how bad Trump is. Do you not read that tripe. Apparently you read it here. Some people believe that perhaps to include you.



Do you not realize that's all changed? How much have they managed to reduce the size of their nukes? Will they fit on a short range missile. It is simply no longer an SK problem.



Don't bet on it. NK needs to understand that South Korea will become an island if they try any of the crap they've threatened. That might work or not while searching for a solution to the problem.
I do hope the first para has some accidentally typed words in it: Trump is terrible, not just bad and as of even weeks ago that was crystal clear. YMMV, but if so it is way wrong!!!!!!
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Old 17th April 2017, 03:57 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
I think everyone is ignoring the fact that many of the scientists are NOT Korean. In fact, I'd guess there's only a few Koreans in the group.
Makes it even worse for the NK. If it is known they have executed skilled
foreign workers it would be even harder to recruit more. After all how wants a job where at the end you get executed? Plus they need to pay even more for good workers in hard currency. Otherwise these workers could work in their own country.
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Old 18th April 2017, 01:00 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Makes it even worse for the NK. If it is known they have executed skilled
foreign workers it would be even harder to recruit more. After all how wants a job where at the end you get executed? Plus they need to pay even more for good workers in hard currency. Otherwise these workers could work in their own country.
How did we arrive at the conclusion that North Korea are hiring and executing foreign nuclear weapons scientists?
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:44 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
How did we arrive at the conclusion that North Korea are hiring and executing foreign nuclear weapons scientists?
I'm confused, too. I thought their priorities were to kidnap foreign filmmakers and actors to make movies for them.
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:46 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
How did we arrive at the conclusion that North Korea are hiring and executing foreign nuclear weapons scientists?
Assumptive that they need outsiders for some specialties and KimAH loves killing people who fail him in many weird ways. May his testes be swollen and in extreme and constant pain.
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:58 AM   #72
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For anyone who knows how this works for them it just goes to show how little knowledge there is of their methods. I didn't say anything about kidnapping scientists or technicians. Someone else had mentioned that.

How 'bout simply hiring people with knowledge and ability to teach and help them. There are out of work scientists in Russia and because of our excellent negotiated agreement with Iran, there are obviously out of work scientists there too. Doesn't everyone know this is a joint project with the Iranians. I thought that was rather common knowledge among knowledgeable people.

Pardon me for assuming that most folks knew. This is not a Conspiracy Theory.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/...r-weapon-13570
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Old 18th April 2017, 05:19 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
I think there are rocket scientists in North Korea whose job security is now in jeopardy and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I doubt if there would be many top notch rocket scientists in NK. If they get rid of one or two then that would delay further progress.
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
I think everyone is ignoring the fact that many of the scientists are NOT Korean. In fact, I'd guess there's only a few Koreans in the group.
Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Makes it even worse for the NK. If it is known they have executed skilled
foreign workers it would be even harder to recruit more. After all how wants a job where at the end you get executed? Plus they need to pay even more for good workers in hard currency. Otherwise these workers could work in their own country.
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
How did we arrive at the conclusion that North Korea are hiring and executing foreign nuclear weapons scientists?
Follow the history of the posts. To make this easy for you all they are above. Here is food for thought. The North Korean leader wants to build a long range rocket. So he hires some skilled workers. It does not really matter where. The rockets they build have a high failure rate. What do you think the reaction of the NK leadership will be?
a. Here is some more money. Try again.
b. You, you and you. We blame you for the failure. You are off the job. We hire more workers.
c. We cannot do this. Let us spend the money on something else.
d. Something else?
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Old 18th April 2017, 09:20 AM   #74
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Mod WarningI moved the discussion on Kim Jong Un's name to AAH. I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread, all ready in progress
Posted By:kmortis
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Old 18th April 2017, 07:48 PM   #75
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Kim Jong Un's Missile Fails
No worries, his wife's zucchini harvest this year was a bumper crop.

Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Their artillery aimed at Seoul is no laughing matter.
Correct.
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
I really feel sorry for those in other Countries who don't understand the significance of this issue.
They only care about what they can do to complain about the US.
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I would think Japan and South Korea are concerned.
You would be correct. (Been both places, though most of my contacts on topics like this were fellow military professionals).
Originally Posted by Nosi View Post
From what I understand N Korea has two satellites flying in an orbit over the USA that can give off an EMP Pulse. Those can destroy our electrical grid.
You need to do just a little more research. I ran a few exercises back in the 90's on actual EMP weapons, preparation, effects, and mitigation.
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Kim Jong Un reminds me a lot of Donald Trump, both big on bluster and bluff.
Trump's taller, older, and IMO less deluded.
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm confused, too. I thought their priorities were to kidnap foreign filmmakers and actors to make movies for them.
That is priority two, since priority one involves Dennis Rodman.
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