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#3281 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 19,040
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Outrage among 'remainers' on social media at the anti EU bias of the BBC because they only provided Union Flags for the audience of the show to decide the GB entry to Eurovision and didn't allow EU flags or provide flags of other nations.
Apparently it shows the BBC bias against the EU and reveals them as Tory lackeys. That the Eurovsion Song Contest is nothing to do with the EU and the show was to decide the GB entry seems to have escaped them. |
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#3282 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 30,756
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#3283 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,707
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#3284 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,620
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#3285 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,707
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#3286 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,924
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If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb |
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#3287 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,924
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__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb |
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#3288 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,093
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"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills |
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#3289 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 25,411
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I note that Theresa May is attempting to appeal to Labour MPs.
Instead of addressing the core concerns of being out of a customs union, she is instead using yet more funds from the Brexit Magic Money TreeTM to https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47192233 My view is that as weak as Theresa May's position is, she recognises that Jeremy Corbyn's is even weaker and so she can pretty much sideline all of his major requests (though I note that the BBC has referred to them as "Demands", wonder if there's some editorialising going on there). |
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#3290 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,598
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There cannot be any doubt that May is running down the clock to the choice is her deal or no deal. I suspect she is doing that with EU backing since they agreed to her deal.
The EU is not prepared to keep negotiating with a group who cannot agree amongst themselves what they want. That is a perfectly reasonable stance to take, as it is impossible to negotiate with a group who have no set proposals or aims. |
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Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
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#3291 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 25,411
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My issue with Theresa May's deal is that it is better than no deal (in the same way that losing Ł1000 is better than Ł1500) but its still a terrible deal for the UK. There may be some protections for high profile industries like car making, fishing and agriculture but the service industry which accounts for 80% of GDP, more than 100% of growth in the UK economy and which has a significant trade surplus with the rest of the world has just been left hanging in the wind.
I also think that's a very high risk strategy because the default position is no-deal and unless the Labour Party folds like a cheap deck chair (and it may), I cannot see Theresa May's deal being approved by the commons. I agree. |
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#3292 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 28,492
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right? Tony Szamboti: That is right |
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#3293 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,153
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__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#3294 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,153
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Not at all, only any deal that the EU would ever actually agree to. The proposed all of the benefits and none of the costs deal that was sold to the british public would be a great deal, of course the EU was never going to agree to it. But why should they let reality stop them now?
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#3295 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 25,411
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#3296 |
should be banned
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: on the edge
Posts: 14,152
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#3297 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,153
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__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#3298 |
BOFH
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 11,474
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I've puzzled over this for a long time and wondered why it seems to get so little attention in the mainstream news. Is it because if we asked for protection for finance that they would then insist we followed EU regulations on finance. In particular the upcoming EU laws on transparency would impact banks and other financial institutions which enable tax evasion and so on. We know a number of MPs and media owners who do not want this to happen.
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#3299 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 25,411
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The financial services industry in general, and the City of London in particular was blamed for the 2008 crash. Financial services workers are all seen as "fat cats", regardless that most are bank tellers, administrators, call centre workers and other comparatively low-paid roles. None of this is conducive to generating public sympathy. Anything which says that financial services is going to take a major hit is likely to be greeted with the comment "about time" by the public at large.
I think this has a lot to do with it, as does the relative complexity of the issues. Financial passporting is quite an abstract concept, building cars is not. |
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#3300 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hull
Posts: 1,846
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Huzzah! Some good news at last, and in Hull!
http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2019/02/0...ategy-success/ Oh wait,.....spoof. With Brexit its sometimes hard to tell. |
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"To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag." |
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#3301 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,598
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May's deal is rubbish because the Tories cannot agree amongst themselves and she had to cobble together something.
But it is not just the Tories who are split, so is the rest of Parliament and so is the public. There is no consensus anywhere and never will be. The biggest issue was that of the small majority who wanted to leave, there was a huge amount of disagreement as to what was to replace the existing membership of the EU. Farage, Johnson, Cameron, Gove and the rest who caused the issues all wanted to go down in history as great politicians. History will instead look upon them with scorn as complete buffoons. |
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Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
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#3302 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 8,822
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#3303 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hull
Posts: 1,846
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"To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag." |
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#3304 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 19,040
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#3305 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hull
Posts: 1,846
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__________________
"To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag." |
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#3306 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 25,411
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Theresa May's message is that MPs must hold their nerve.
Quote:
It feels to me like she thinks that offered a stark choice between her really, really, bad deal and no deal at all, the Labour Party will blink first and accept her deal in sufficient numbers to offset any ERG Conservatives and DUP politicians who feel that the backstop is a step too far. Who knows, she may be right. In other news, Phil Hammond is claiming a "Brexit dividend" from Theresa May's deal https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47209369 MPs don't believe it, because it's comparing Theresa May's deal to no deal, as opposed to the status quo. It reminds me of the kind of thinking an ex-colleague used to have. He considered the difference between his credit card balance and credit card limit to be his "savings for a rainy day". |
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#3307 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 28,492
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I think her biggest problem may be that they will do exactly that; she's pretending the UK is in a staring match with the EU, when in fact Parliament is in a staring match with the government.
Presumably because a "Brexit not-quite-as-****-as-it-might-have-been scenario" doesn't sound as good. Dave |
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right? Tony Szamboti: That is right |
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#3308 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 25,411
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#3309 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 30,756
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Meanwhile: Government sued over no-deal ferry contracts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47206303
Quote:
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__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#3310 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 28,492
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Not sure there isn't a third. Theresa May is still trying to hold the threat of "No Brexit" over the die-hard Brexiteers, who aren't bothered by "No deal", while doing the reverse to the rest of the House. If "No Brexit" is no longer credible then half her leverage is gone, and it was never enough leverage in the first place.
Dave |
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right? Tony Szamboti: That is right |
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#3311 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 25,411
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IMO "No-Brexit" won't fly for many reasons:
From day 1 I've been convinced that there are only two possible outcomes from Brexit, No-Brexit and No-Deal. IMO the No-Brexit boats were burned very early on and the "wisdom" of burning those boats has been repeatedly confirmed by parliament who have repeatedly refused to consider any kind of delay to Brexit or any kind of binding measure to prevent a No-Deal Brexit. I can only conclude that the vast majority of Conservatives and a minority of Labour Party MPs are quite content with a no-Deal Brexit because they've had plenty of opportunity to voice any objections to it. |
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#3312 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,153
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Admittedly they have objected to no deal plenty of times, got to make sure they don't take the blame for it after all. It is far more important to not be seen as responsible for the catastrophe than to prevent it. That seems to be the main driving force in British politics right now.
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#3313 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,594
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I don't think this is true, I think there is a substantial difference of opinion between the UK government and the EU about the backstop, and Theresa May has made her situation worse (in my opinion) by sending mixed and ambiguous messages about the backstop herself, sometimes approving it, or sometimes saying she just wanted to change it (but not removing it entirely). Perhaps she should say more clearly "no to the backstop", "this is an unacceptable attack on the UK's territorial integrity" to the EU, like the DUP (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1MC1LA), and insist somewhat less on a seamless border in Ireland. Perhaps she could then convince the EU to reopen the withdrawal deal, and have it approved by the House of Commons.
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#3314 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 25,411
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Well, yes and no.
They have made bleating noises about no-deal on a number of occasions but when they had the opportunity to make a binding vote to discount a no-deal Brexit, the amendment failed. A non-binding amendment to allow parliament to voice an opinion regarding a no-deal did pass but that's like saying that you want to lose weight but failing to commit to either eat less or move more. The trouble is, that from the position of the two main political parties, there are two catastrophes, a no-Brexit (which will apparently be a political and democratic catastrophe despite the 52% who voted Leave having no single, clear, realistic idea of what they wanted) and a no-deal (which will likely be a political and economic disaster). The clear message from those two major parties is that, from their perspective, a no-Deal is the lesser of two evils. I get that the Conservative Party thinks that way, after all they are gammon-central, it's the Labour Party turning its back on 2/3 of its supporters (at the time of the referendum, 80%+ now) and heading inexorably towards Brexit has me scratching my head (and changing my political allegiance). |
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#3315 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 25,411
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Have you not been reading at all. The backstop was something specifically requested by Theresa May as a means of ensuring that there was no hard border in Ireland which would likely result in a failure of the Good Friday Agreement and a return to violence.
The DUP are front and centre among those who would oppose a "less seamless border in Ireland" but to be honest, it's difficult to find too many people who would be in favour of it. One thing to bear in mind about the DUP is that they are unionist and religious zealots who, despite being the largest NI party and the Protestants having the upper hand for the last three centuries and more, have an enormous persecution complex and so anything they say or do should be viewed through the lens of religious and sectarian bigotry. |
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#3316 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,594
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Quote:
Quote:
The Irish Times says:
Quote:
Nonetheless, it seems to me Arlene Foster's position is fairly reasonable and understandable in this specific instance, it is not based on religious considerations. If Theresa May had been as firm and consistent with Brussels as Arlene Foster, perhaps the European Commision would have reopened negotiations. |
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#3317 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 25,411
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Arlene Foster's position is not only not reasonable, it's not even internally consistent.
She wants a hard-Brexit, no border in Ireland and no border between Ireland and the British mainland. These things are fundamentally incompatible. That's not surprising for someone who insists that Northern Ireland is treated exactly the same as the rest of the UK - except for those areas where her religious |
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#3318 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,594
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#3319 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 20,015
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#3320 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 25,411
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Hard Brexit:
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No hard Border:
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