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Tags 2020 elections , Elizabeth Warren , Massachusetts politics , presidential candidates , racial categorization , racial isssues

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Old 10th February 2019, 12:55 PM   #3081
Roger Ramjets
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Should we give Trump credit for playing Warren like a fiddle on this?
Actually he's done her a favor. When you label someone, the meme becomes reality. Crooked Hillary, Lyin' Ted, Liddle Marco, Low Energy Jeb - all cemented in the public's mind that these people were what Trump said they were. But he made a mistake with Warren, because now she is Pocahontas.

Originally Posted by crescent
It would be the height of irony if it were proven that Warren were actually a descendant of Pocahontas.
More than that, it would turn the slur into an asset. It might prove to be the one lie Trump told that leads to his downfall!
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Old 10th February 2019, 01:06 PM   #3082
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Actually he's done her a favor. When you label someone, the meme becomes reality. Crooked Hillary, Lyin' Ted, Liddle Marco, Low Energy Jeb - all cemented in the public's mind that these people were what Trump said they were. But he made a mistake with Warren, because now she is Pocahontas.

More than that, it would turn the slur into an asset. It might prove to be the one lie Trump told that leads to his downfall!
I have to agree with that. Somehow, we now live in a bizarro world wherein documented proof that Warren is actually descended from Pocohantas could turn a candidacy that is (undeservedly) tanked into one that is (also undeservedly) resurrected.

Ok with me. She would be my first choice for POTUS if I thought she had a stronger chance of winning the general election.
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Old 10th February 2019, 01:08 PM   #3083
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Actually he's done her a favor. When you label someone, the meme becomes reality. Crooked Hillary, Lyin' Ted, Liddle Marco, Low Energy Jeb - all cemented in the public's mind that these people were what Trump said they were. But he made a mistake with Warren, because now she is Pocahontas.



More than that, it would turn the slur into an asset. It might prove to be the one lie Trump told that leads to his downfall!
It's about time we got some more Native Americans in Congress. This one happens to be a privileged white person, but who cares about a bit of European heritage when we're serving social justice up in this?
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Old 10th February 2019, 01:16 PM   #3084
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's about time we got some more Native Americans in Congress. This one happens to be a privileged white person, but who cares about a bit of European heritage when we're serving social justice up in this?
That is a somewhat disingenuous take on what has happened.
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Old 10th February 2019, 01:21 PM   #3085
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
That is a somewhat disingenuous take on what has happened.
Don't look at me. Mister Ramjets here is the one saying she really is Pocahontas after all. I'm just riffing on his theme.
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Old 10th February 2019, 01:35 PM   #3086
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You think I didn't get it....
If you did get it, then your response made no sense.
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Old 10th February 2019, 01:39 PM   #3087
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And keeping in mind that the racist POS that called her "Pocohantas" is the same racist POS who challenged Obama to produce a birth certificate because a black man can't be American.
Good thing Obama is just as White as he is Black.
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Old 10th February 2019, 01:48 PM   #3088
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Good thing Obama is just as White as he is Black.
It's not like Obama was raised in the American South, a fourth generation heir of a legacy of slavery, segregation, and discrimination.

Obama knows as much about the African American experience as Elizabeth Warren knows about the Native American experience.
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Old 10th February 2019, 01:48 PM   #3089
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's about time we got some more Native Americans in Congress. This one happens to be a privileged white person, but who cares about a bit of European heritage when we're serving social justice up in this?
As a 'privileged white person' myself, I take offense to your insinuation. Why should a person's skin color or status be a factor in whether they can legitimately fight for social justice?

Perhaps it has something to do with:-

Definition of Partisan:
1. a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person especially : one exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance.

Time and time again we have seen you defend or minimize the excesses of a certain 'privileged white person', yet for Warren you only have disdain. I wonder why?
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Old 10th February 2019, 01:53 PM   #3090
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Did that wanker just emphasize trail as an allusion to the Trail of Tears?
Yes, because Trump is well known for his knowledge of 19th century American history and his penchant for slipping subtle references to historical events into everyday conversation as a humorous way to connect with his fellow history dorks. Hunter S Thompson used to do the same thing with book titles. And, of course, nobody has ever used the phrase "campaign trail"
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Old 10th February 2019, 02:03 PM   #3091
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Yes, because Trump is well known for his knowledge of 19th century American history and his penchant for slipping subtle references to historical events into everyday conversation as a humorous way to connect with his fellow history dorks. Hunter S Thompson used to do the same thing with book titles. And, of course, nobody has ever used the phrase "campaign trail"
I hope Trump HANGS around and explains his strange use of capital letters then.
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Old 10th February 2019, 02:34 PM   #3092
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's about time we got some more Native Americans in Congress. This one happens to be a privileged white person, but who cares about a bit of European heritage when we're serving social justice up in this?
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
As a 'privileged white person' myself, I take offense to your insinuation. Why should a person's skin color or status be a factor in whether they can legitimately fight for social justice?

Perhaps it has something to do with:-

Definition of Partisan:
1. a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person especially : one exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance.

Time and time again we have seen you defend or minimize the excesses of a certain 'privileged white person', yet for Warren you only have disdain. I wonder why?
This is all TOTAL NONSENSE.

No one and I mean NO ONE in either party has fought harder for the middle class and the poor than Elizabeth Warren.
That the GOP has decided to focus on this non-story about her heritage tells you a lot. They NEVER EVER want to discuss economic, racial, or other inequities, but instead they focus on trivia. With Obama it was his birthplace, with Hillary it was emails and Ben Ghazzi. They've tried almost everything on AOC already. She is secretly rich or she's terrible with money with no money and no credit. And with Warren they talk about this.

Because if they distract, they win. They're good at deception. Just don't bend over to pick up the soap.
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Old 10th February 2019, 02:42 PM   #3093
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I hope Trump HANGS around and explains his strange use of capital letters then.
brilliant
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Old 10th February 2019, 03:25 PM   #3094
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Trumph would be ELECTRIFIED if you could INJECT him with a little social awareness. If he faced a SQUAD of critics, he might be HEADED for a better TERMINAL administration -- call it STAGE FOUR of his reign. It would be a massive STROKE of luck. I hope he finds it in his
HEART to ATTACK the real problems that confront him. Yes, GRAVE problems.
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Old 10th February 2019, 04:03 PM   #3095
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This is all TOTAL NONSENSE.

No one and I mean NO ONE in either party has fought harder for the middle class and the poor than Elizabeth Warren.
That the GOP has decided to focus on this non-story about her heritage tells you a lot. They NEVER EVER want to discuss economic, racial, or other inequities, but instead they focus on trivia. With Obama it was his birthplace, with Hillary it was emails and Ben Ghazzi. They've tried almost everything on AOC already. She is secretly rich or she's terrible with money with no money and no credit. And with Warren they talk about this.

Because if they distract, they win. They're good at deception. Just don't bend over to pick up the soap.
I suspect I'm not going to get much agreement on this, but my take is that the Democrats at the moment have a similar vulnerability to the evangelical right 20 years ago. There is a claim of moral superiority, a priggishness. Pricking that by showing she claimed her race was Native American is powerful for the same reason that revelations about evangelicals getting caught with rent boys was powerful. Few who laughed at the evangelicals really cared that they were gay, it was the hypocrisy that was so delicious. The same now with Warren.
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Old 10th February 2019, 04:12 PM   #3096
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
brilliant
And I see that Donnie Jr made a fool of himself commenting on this with a slur on Native Americans that cannot be mistaken. Once again he shows why his nickname of Fredo is so well deserved.
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Old 10th February 2019, 04:23 PM   #3097
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I suspect I'm not going to get much agreement on this, but my take is that the Democrats at the moment have a similar vulnerability to the evangelical right 20 years ago. There is a claim of moral superiority, a priggishness. Pricking that by showing she claimed her race was Native American is powerful for the same reason that revelations about evangelicals getting caught with rent boys was powerful. Few who laughed at the evangelicals really cared that they were gay, it was the hypocrisy that was so delicious. The same now with Warren.
There is no hypocrisy with Warren. If ANYONE actually thinks this matters they are an idiot. It's why Warren pissed me off when she took the DNA test. All that did was dredge it up again. Trump is going to keep calling her Pocohantas. Thats a given. And if I was Elizabeth Warren, the next time he did it, I would tweet "Go to Hell Donald. I work for the people, you work to enrich yourself and Russia #TrumpTower Moscow." Keep turning the table. Don't address the trivia.
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Old 10th February 2019, 04:33 PM   #3098
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
There is no hypocrisy with Warren. If ANYONE actually thinks this matters they are an idiot. It's why Warren pissed me off when she took the DNA test. All that did was dredge it up again. Trump is going to keep calling her Pocohantas. Thats a given. And if I was Elizabeth Warren, the next time he did it, I would tweet "Go to Hell Donald. I work for the people, you work to enrich yourself and Russia #TrumpTower Moscow." Keep turning the table. Don't address the trivia.
I agree with you that that might have been a better strategy. I nearly mentioned in my last post that I am currently reading a book on negotiations (not by Trump) that recommends getting these kinds of things out there yourself. She has made it important. It's the same with the evangelicals, half of what made them look like hypocrites was how they dealt with the revelation. Hard to get the toothpaste back in the tube at this point.
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Old 10th February 2019, 04:34 PM   #3099
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's not like Obama was raised in the American South, a fourth generation heir of a legacy of slavery, segregation, and discrimination.

Obama knows as much about the African American experience as Elizabeth Warren knows about the Native American experience.
What do you know about either?
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Old 10th February 2019, 04:39 PM   #3100
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
There is no hypocrisy with Warren. If ANYONE actually thinks this matters they are an idiot. It's why Warren pissed me off when she took the DNA test. All that did was dredge it up again. Trump is going to keep calling her Pocohantas. Thats a given. And if I was Elizabeth Warren, the next time he did it, I would tweet "Go to Hell Donald. I work for the people, you work to enrich yourself and Russia #TrumpTower Moscow." Keep turning the table. Don't address the trivia.
No, disagree on the retaliation. Warren is doing what is the very best response, and you will see all the Dems doing now: Ignoring the orange prick entirely and going to the people directly. Because any retaliation would be just giving him attention, which he desperately seeks all the time.

Also starving the beast makes him mad and he just resorts to even more stupid tweets and shout-outs at his dwindling rallies. More and more, he is looking stupider and stupider to more Americans. Disappointment grows.

Also, as stated above, Trump and the GOP have nothing left to run with except lies and name-calling. Now that they have just about **** their own nest and tried to trash the USA, they certainly don't have their "good reputation" left.
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Old 10th February 2019, 04:43 PM   #3101
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Originally Posted by snoop_doxie View Post
What do you [theprestige] know about either?
Clearly, not a lot.

@theprestige How it is that someone lives in the US for most of their life, looks like an African American, but yet somehow does not experience "the African American experience"? What a thoroughly bizarre concept.
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Old 10th February 2019, 04:57 PM   #3102
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
it was the hypocrisy that was so delicious. The same now with Warren.
In what way is it the same? Do Democrats have a moral objection to people claiming a minority ancestry without proof? Are they trying to pass laws preventing it?

Why am I not seeing the equivalence here? Could it be because there isn't one?
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Old 10th February 2019, 05:13 PM   #3103
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
No, disagree on the retaliation. Warren is doing what is the very best response, and you will see all the Dems doing now: Ignoring the orange prick entirely and going to the people directly. Because any retaliation would be just giving him attention, which he desperately seeks all the time.

Also starving the beast makes him mad and he just resorts to even more stupid tweets and shout-outs at his dwindling rallies. More and more, he is looking stupider and stupider to more Americans. Disappointment grows.

Also, as stated above, Trump and the GOP have nothing left to run with except lies and name-calling. Now that they have just about **** their own nest and tried to trash the USA, they certainly don't have their "good reputation" left.
No....pick a fight and NEVER EVER STOP PUNCHING. Trump is going to get his attention either way. The point is it gives you attention. But do it smartly.
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Old 10th February 2019, 05:29 PM   #3104
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
I wonder why?
No, you don't!
(Nor do the rest of us ...)
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Old 10th February 2019, 05:51 PM   #3105
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's not like Obama was raised in the American South, a fourth generation heir of a legacy of slavery, segregation, and discrimination.

Obama knows as much about the African American experience as Elizabeth Warren knows about the Native American experience.
Typical white person
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Old 10th February 2019, 05:53 PM   #3106
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
There is no hypocrisy with Warren. If ANYONE actually thinks this matters they are an idiot. It's why Warren pissed me off when she took the DNA test. All that did was dredge it up again. Trump is going to keep calling her Pocohantas. Thats a given. And if I was Elizabeth Warren, the next time he did it, I would tweet "Go to Hell Donald. I work for the people, you work to enrich yourself and Russia #TrumpTower Moscow." Keep turning the table. Don't address the trivia.
As I said when I started the thread, I thought she should have taken one immediately when the question came up, and announced that it was being done BEFORE the results even came in.
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Old 10th February 2019, 06:39 PM   #3107
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
There is no hypocrisy with Warren. If ANYONE actually thinks this matters they are an idiot. It's why Warren pissed me off when she took the DNA test. All that did was dredge it up again. Trump is going to keep calling her Pocohantas. Thats a given. And if I was Elizabeth Warren, the next time he did it, I would tweet "Go to Hell Donald. I work for the people, you work to enrich yourself and Russia #TrumpTower Moscow." Keep turning the table. Don't address the trivia.
Dredge up how? That particular ****ball was being kept in the air constantly, in part by Trump himself. You can't dig up something that's *floating*.
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Old 10th February 2019, 06:54 PM   #3108
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Dredge up how? That particular ****ball was being kept in the air constantly, in part by Trump himself. You can't dig up something that's *floating*.
I hadn't heard anything about it for quite a while. There is no doubt the GOP was going to bring it up again. But let them waste the time and effort. Taking the test was just adding news cycles to that story. Why would you do that?
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Old 10th February 2019, 07:00 PM   #3109
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I hadn't heard anything about it for quite a while. There is no doubt the GOP was going to bring it up again. But let them waste the time and effort. Taking the test was just adding news cycles to that story. Why would you do that?
This thread was started in September of last year. No DNA test had been done at that time, then the argument was over whether or not she should do so. Something had to bring it up, and it doesn't seem to have been Warren.
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Old 10th February 2019, 07:14 PM   #3110
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
This thread was started in September of last year. No DNA test had been done at that time, then the argument was over whether or not she should do so. Something had to bring it up, and it doesn't seem to have been Warren.
I thought it was Warren. I never even paid any attention to the thread or her heritage before she did that. I considered it a rookie mistake. Politically stupid. She was defending herself to people who don't really care about it. They just were looking for something to hit her over the head with. By taking the test she gives it legs. But I still think it is a nothinburger.
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Old 10th February 2019, 07:17 PM   #3111
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
This thread was started in September of last year. No DNA test had been done at that time, then the argument was over whether or not she should do so. Something had to bring it up, and it doesn't seem to have been Warren.
I think the point he's making is that taking the test was a mistake. No one who cared was going to accept a positive result anyway, no matter how definitive, so it could only have served to bring the manufactured outrage back to the forefront of public attention.

Which I think was the intent. Show the results, prove them wrong, run for president. The problem was Warren apparently expected her detractors to slink away quietly instead of immediately shifting to accuse her of not being Native American enough.
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Old 10th February 2019, 09:21 PM   #3112
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I thought it was Warren. I never even paid any attention to the thread or her heritage before she did that. I considered it a rookie mistake. Politically stupid. She was defending herself to people who don't really care about it. They just were looking for something to hit her over the head with. By taking the test she gives it legs. But I still think it is a nothinburger.
Six years it managed to make regular flights without those legs. But there was a solid argument for her not taking the test, and an argument for taking the test and laying everything to rest. Part of the argument against was that, exactly as with the birth certificate, taking the test would fail no matter the results. She got goaded into it, but she didn't randomly decide "hey no one's talked about this potential skeleton in my closet for a while, let's bring it out to dance!". She's not Trump. Had rightwing loons let it lie, she wouldn't have mentioned it again.

It really was more "I'll do it if it'll make you SHUT UP for once!" than "Pay attention to meeeee!" like those accustomed to Trump are assuming.
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Old 10th February 2019, 11:40 PM   #3113
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's not like Obama was raised in the American South, a fourth generation heir of a legacy of slavery, segregation, and discrimination.

Obama knows as much about the African American experience as Elizabeth Warren knows about the Native American experience.

Stow your white privilege farm boy!
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Old 11th February 2019, 04:00 AM   #3114
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I suspect I'm not going to get much agreement on this, but my take is that the Democrats at the moment have a similar vulnerability to the evangelical right 20 years ago. There is a claim of moral superiority, a priggishness. Pricking that by showing she claimed her race was Native American is powerful for the same reason that revelations about evangelicals getting caught with rent boys was powerful. Few who laughed at the evangelicals really cared that they were gay, it was the hypocrisy that was so delicious. The same now with Warren.
How did that harm them? As a political block they seem to have gone from strength to strength.
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Old 11th February 2019, 04:02 AM   #3115
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
There is no hypocrisy with Warren. If ANYONE actually thinks this matters they are an idiot. It's why Warren pissed me off when she took the DNA test. All that did was dredge it up again. Trump is going to keep calling her Pocohantas. Thats a given. And if I was Elizabeth Warren, the next time he did it, I would tweet "Go to Hell Donald. I work for the people, you work to enrich yourself and Russia #TrumpTower Moscow." Keep turning the table. Don't address the trivia.
Perhaps she should always refer to him as Comrade Trump?

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Old 11th February 2019, 05:36 AM   #3116
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's not like Obama was raised in the American South, a fourth generation heir of a legacy of slavery, segregation, and discrimination.

Obama knows as much about the African American experience as Elizabeth Warren knows about the Native American experience.
As Obama said addressing this very point...

"If I'm outside your building trying to catch a cab," he told Charlie Rose, "they're not saying, 'Oh, there's a mixed race guy.'"
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Old 11th February 2019, 05:38 AM   #3117
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
As Obama said addressing this very point...

"If I'm outside your building trying to catch a cab," he told Charlie Rose, "they're not saying, 'Oh, there's a mixed race guy.'"
When's the last time you think Obama hailed a cab?
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Old 11th February 2019, 05:39 AM   #3118
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
When's the last time you think Obama hailed a cab?
Woosh!
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Old 11th February 2019, 05:51 AM   #3119
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
When's the last time you think Obama hailed a cab?
2005? Which would be more recent than many, "raised in the American South, a fourth generation heir of a legacy of slavery, segregation, and discrimination."
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:49 AM   #3120
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
As Obama said addressing this very point...

"If I'm outside your building trying to catch a cab," he told Charlie Rose, "they're not saying, 'Oh, there's a mixed race guy.'"
If Warren tries to catch a cab, do you think the cab driver is saying, "Oh, there's a native American"?
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