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View Poll Results: Do you agree with the proposition about racism?
Yes, of course 7 16.67%
Absolutely not 12 28.57%
Mostly yes or no, but with some qualifications one way or the other 21 50.00%
Planet Little was Planet X's slave name 2 4.76%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 25th January 2019, 10:19 AM   #1
theprestige
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Is this what racism is?

Anyone who grew up thinking that mimicry of another culture, race or nationality is a valid way to express yourself is racist.

Foolmewunz made this statement in another thread, here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5#post12577265

I think it's an interesting proposition. I'm still composing my thoughts on the claim, and I figured it might generate some interesting discussion if I threw it out to the general membership in the mean time.

Feel free to answer the poll and and debate your answers in the thread. Good luck and have fun!
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Old 25th January 2019, 10:30 AM   #2
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I voted Yes.
It can be a question of how racist it is on a level from one to genocide.
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Old 25th January 2019, 10:36 AM   #3
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Yes if we are broadening the definition racism to mean "ancillary, racially tinged actions."

Now personally I find that definition to broad. No not all racism is cartoonish level and subtle racism is a thing that exists, but at a certain point putting everything that isn't... racially product I guess you'd call it, under the blanket term of "racism" is counter productive.
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Old 25th January 2019, 10:40 AM   #4
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On the whole I'd say uncool/probably racist to a degree, but it depends on context. If I'm mountain biking with friends and we come up to a nasty looking downhill section, me shouting "BANZAI!" is clearly chest-thumping bravado on my part, with a hint of self-mockery.

If I've just given directions to the nearest gas station to a Japanese tourist and shout "BANZAI!" as he drives off, ... well, different story entirely.
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Old 25th January 2019, 10:58 AM   #5
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How is mimicry defined in the context of the statement? Pretty much every actor on the planet from Al Jolsen onward would come under the racism tent if the statement were to be taken broadly enough. I could make a list...

Is a straight man being a cultural racist by portraying a gay character? Turn it around to a gay man playing a straight character.

Joe Random put it pretty well for me "it depends on the context". So mostly yes and no comes closest to my view.

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Old 25th January 2019, 11:03 AM   #6
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Right. Context and intent. Negative subtext about the race in question, probably racist. Something just characteristic or identifiable of a given racial makeup, not really.
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Old 25th January 2019, 11:04 AM   #7
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Overall, yeah, but it depends on the specific mimicry.
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Old 25th January 2019, 11:06 AM   #8
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The poll is a little limiting. Why not have a Mostly Yes and Mostly No?

I say mostly no. It rolls culture and race and nationality all together so it's bound to score a hit somewhere, but in the main it's simply not true. All that's necessary is to look at the definition of racism and compare it with this definition. It doesn't fit, and that's that.
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Old 25th January 2019, 11:07 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Anyone who grew up thinking that mimicry of another culture, race or nationality is a valid way to express yourself is racist.

Foolmewunz made this statement in another thread, here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5#post12577265

I think it's an interesting proposition. I'm still composing my thoughts on the claim, and I figured it might generate some interesting discussion if I threw it out to the general membership in the mean time.

Feel free to answer the poll and and debate your answers in the thread. Good luck and have fun!
Is religion a subset of culture, race, or nationality?
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Old 25th January 2019, 11:14 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Is religion a subset of culture, race, or nationality?
Of course. And dance, dress, accent, habits, food choices, hairstyle, clothes and all the rest. That's the point. If you criticise, mock or mimic anything related to a minority it's racism, that's what we're told, and that's why we can freely mock Christianity, disco dancing, Yorkshire accents, fish 'n' chips, mullets and flares and it's a big joke to everyone, but making a joke about Islam, tomahawk chops, Pakistani accents, fried chicken, afros or headdresses is racist.
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Old 25th January 2019, 11:18 AM   #11
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“No” says every comedian on the planet. Sometimes culture is funny. Sometimes language is funny. The ugly American abroad is funny. Accents are funny. I’m mostly Dutch and love a good Hollander joke. Stereotypes are great sources of humor because of the inherent grain of truth in them.

Society is no fun when we lose the ability to laugh at ourselves and even at each other. People need to stop looking to be offended all the time.
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Old 25th January 2019, 11:20 AM   #12
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This is all very silly. Not so long ago in the UK was a popular kids' show which commenced with drumming and a deep male voice booming 'How!' to which the kiddies had to respond, 'How!'.

Racist bastards.
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Old 25th January 2019, 11:21 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
Society is no fun when we lose the ability to laugh at ourselves and even at each other. People need to stop looking to be offended all the time.
Indeed.
This is why I feel why true equality will be reached not when people stop making fun of one another, but when people aren't so insecure as to take offense at such actions.

Last edited by Pterodactyl; 25th January 2019 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 25th January 2019, 11:21 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
“No” says every comedian on the planet. Sometimes culture is funny. Sometimes language is funny. The ugly American abroad is funny. Accents are funny. I’m mostly Dutch and love a good Hollander joke. Stereotypes are great sources of humor because of the inherent grain of truth in them.

Society is no fun when we lose the ability to laugh at ourselves and even at each other. People need to stop looking to be offended all the time.
No, they are not funny. They are a PITA.
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Old 25th January 2019, 11:34 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
No, they are not funny. They are a PITA.
A great many things in life are a PITA when they happen, but really funny upon reflection.

“Tragedy is when I stub my toe. Comedy is when you fall in an open sewer and die.” - I think that was Mel Brooks
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Old 25th January 2019, 11:35 AM   #16
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I like to type the word, "Si" in texts to mean yes. A close friend of mine who is not Irish likes to say, "Patrick, me boyo," on greeting me. I'm Irish. My cousin, who works with a lot of India Indians can do a spot-on imitation of their lilting speech.
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Old 25th January 2019, 11:43 AM   #17
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Speaking of ugly Americans abroad...


I recall the episode of The Simpsons when they came to Australia. Apparently a lot of people were offended by that episode, which I found hilarious. It was okay for them to make fun of everything else on the Planet, but not Australians. In fact some people even made lists of what they did incorrectly. You have to draw the line somewhere!



But reading Planet Simpson, the writers said they started to do research on Australia, but then were afraid they might get some things wrong, so they just decided to get everything wrong. The writers were right.



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Old 25th January 2019, 11:51 AM   #18
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Like some others have said, and most have voted, depends on context and intent. Plus -- to recount a discussion on another thread a while back -- on whether one is punching 'up' or 'down'. Prince Charles often gets called ugly and a chinless wonder and, while you may or may not find the description accurate, no one reacts to that as one would if you focused on the physical repellance, the physical/racial characteristics, of some dictator of some other country elsewhere. (Not that chinlessness or ugliness is a racial characteristic, but you know what I mean.) Clear double standard that, but one that makes sense in a way.
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Old 25th January 2019, 11:54 AM   #19
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The ugly American abroad is funny. Being treated like crap in another country just because you’re from America is when it stops being funny.

Accents can be funny. Making fun of an individual trying to just take care of business that you’re struggling to understand is not funny.
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Old 25th January 2019, 11:58 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I like to type the word, "Si" in texts to mean yes. A close friend of mine who is not Irish likes to say, "Patrick, me boyo," on greeting me. I'm Irish. My cousin, who works with a lot of India Indians can do a spot-on imitation of their lilting speech.

Well, speech patterns aren't a question of culture, race or nationality. I used to be able to do a pretty good imitation of South Jutlandic (Wikipedia).


I chose the third option with the following qualifications:

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Anyone who grew up thinking that mimicry of another culture, race or nationality is a valid way to express yourself and still thinks so is racist.

Most of us probably grew up thinking that because we were made to think so by parents, teachers, the media etc. Due to confirmation bias, it's quite easy to add to this attitude, but it isn't really difficult to consider your beliefs and discover that many of them aren't based on facts.
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Last edited by dann; 25th January 2019 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 25th January 2019, 12:05 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
But reading Planet Simpson, the writers said they started to do research on Australia, but then were afraid they might get some things wrong, so they just decided to get everything wrong. The writers were right.

I love the stories by Carl Barks (Wikipedia). I think he adhered to the same principle when writing about foreign countries.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 25th January 2019 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 25th January 2019, 12:19 PM   #22
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I don't think that it is a complete definition of racism, but I do think that such a history can lead to racism if such thought processes are not examined later in life.

Anyone who grew up believing that "stepping on a crack will break their mother's back" is a superstitious idiot if they made it into adulthood without reconsidering that belief.
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Old 25th January 2019, 12:42 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
The poll is a little limiting.
Fortunately you have a whole wide world of activities and interests to invest in. Don't let yourself be limited by this one little Internet poll.

Quote:
Why not have a Mostly Yes and Mostly No?
Because one response covering the range of partial agreement is granular enough to suit my interest. If you're interested in teasing out all the fractal nuances of the question, feel free to post your own poll to that effect.
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Old 25th January 2019, 12:43 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Is religion a subset of culture, race, or nationality?
That'll probably be a question for foolmewunz, back in the thread where he originally made the comment.
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Old 25th January 2019, 12:45 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
On the whole I'd say uncool/probably racist to a degree, but it depends on context. If I'm mountain biking with friends and we come up to a nasty looking downhill section, me shouting "BANZAI!" is clearly chest-thumping bravado on my part, with a hint of self-mockery.

If I've just given directions to the nearest gas station to a Japanese tourist and shout "BANZAI!" as he drives off, ... well, different story entirely.
What if they'd inadvertently left a tiny, meticulously manicured, decorative tree on their truck, that was in danger of falling off and being destroyed, would it be okay to yell "BANZAI!" then?
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Old 25th January 2019, 12:48 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Fortunately you have a whole wide world of activities and interests to invest in. Don't let yourself be limited by this one little Internet poll.


Because one response covering the range of partial agreement is granular enough to suit my interest. If you're interested in teasing out all the fractal nuances of the question, feel free to post your own poll to that effect.
When you have Yes and No in one option, your poll has failed. Don't worry about it, a rubbish poll isn't the end of the world.
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Old 25th January 2019, 12:48 PM   #27
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Impossible question to answer without knowing the context of the "mimicry"
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Old 25th January 2019, 12:53 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
When you have Yes and No in one option, your poll has failed. Don't worry about it, a rubbish poll isn't the end of the world.
Beggars can't be choosers.
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Old 25th January 2019, 01:28 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Beggars can't be choosers.
Oh pretty please?
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Old 25th January 2019, 01:34 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Oh pretty please?
Only if you are the Chosen One
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Old 25th January 2019, 01:40 PM   #31
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You people and your vacuous witless poles.

Oh,oh,oh I have an important question worthy of a poll.

Are poll writers more likely to be...

A) Really stupid
B) Unintelligent
C) Hair-brained
D) Asinine


See, I mimicked these people as a form of expression without resorting to racism. Question answered.

The culture of Gallup, Nielsen, ComRes... has been non-racist, good-naturedly zinged.
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Old 25th January 2019, 01:42 PM   #32
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*harebrained
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Old 25th January 2019, 01:47 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
*harebrained
Like my pole.
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Old 25th January 2019, 01:51 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Senex View Post
Like my pole.
Is that your chat-up line?
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Old 25th January 2019, 01:51 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
What if they'd inadvertently left a tiny, meticulously manicured, decorative tree on their truck, that was in danger of falling off and being destroyed, would it be okay to yell "BANZAI!" then?

Then naturally you sweep the leg.

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Old 25th January 2019, 02:03 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
*harebrained
Aren't you being stereotypical about hares?

What has a hare ever done to you?
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Old 25th January 2019, 03:39 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Aren't you being stereotypical about hares?

What has a hare ever done to you?
*twitches involuntary*

See Encounters with Rabbits thread
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Old 25th January 2019, 08:38 PM   #38
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Interesting how certain members of this site only seem to post in threads about race and gender.
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Old 26th January 2019, 08:19 AM   #39
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I guess dancing in the Nutcracker is right out then.

I voted no
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Old 26th January 2019, 08:41 AM   #40
Stout
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,410
I dressed up as an Indian for Halloween back in '71

Didn't see anything wrong with it

Guess I grew up a racist.
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