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#1 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,720
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Is this what racism is?
Anyone who grew up thinking that mimicry of another culture, race or nationality is a valid way to express yourself is racist.
Foolmewunz made this statement in another thread, here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5#post12577265 I think it's an interesting proposition. I'm still composing my thoughts on the claim, and I figured it might generate some interesting discussion if I threw it out to the general membership in the mean time. Feel free to answer the poll and and debate your answers in the thread. Good luck and have fun! |
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#2 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,828
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I voted Yes.
It can be a question of how racist it is on a level from one to genocide. |
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Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t. |
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#3 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 16,020
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Yes if we are broadening the definition racism to mean "ancillary, racially tinged actions."
Now personally I find that definition to broad. No not all racism is cartoonish level and subtle racism is a thing that exists, but at a certain point putting everything that isn't... racially product I guess you'd call it, under the blanket term of "racism" is counter productive. |
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- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC |
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#4 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,864
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On the whole I'd say uncool/probably racist to a degree, but it depends on context. If I'm mountain biking with friends and we come up to a nasty looking downhill section, me shouting "BANZAI!" is clearly chest-thumping bravado on my part, with a hint of self-mockery.
If I've just given directions to the nearest gas station to a Japanese tourist and shout "BANZAI!" as he drives off, ... well, different story entirely. |
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#5 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,248
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How is mimicry defined in the context of the statement? Pretty much every actor on the planet from Al Jolsen onward would come under the racism tent if the statement were to be taken broadly enough. I could make a list...
Is a straight man being a cultural racist by portraying a gay character? Turn it around to a gay man playing a straight character. Joe Random put it pretty well for me "it depends on the context". So mostly yes and no comes closest to my view. Norm |
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Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain |
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#6 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,466
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Right. Context and intent. Negative subtext about the race in question, probably racist. Something just characteristic or identifiable of a given racial makeup, not really.
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"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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#7 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,645
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Overall, yeah, but it depends on the specific mimicry.
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend. |
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#8 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,366
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The poll is a little limiting. Why not have a Mostly Yes and Mostly No?
I say mostly no. It rolls culture and race and nationality all together so it's bound to score a hit somewhere, but in the main it's simply not true. All that's necessary is to look at the definition of racism and compare it with this definition. It doesn't fit, and that's that. |
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"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill |
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#9 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,005
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#10 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,366
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Of course. And dance, dress, accent, habits, food choices, hairstyle, clothes and all the rest. That's the point. If you criticise, mock or mimic anything related to a minority it's racism, that's what we're told, and that's why we can freely mock Christianity, disco dancing, Yorkshire accents, fish 'n' chips, mullets and flares and it's a big joke to everyone, but making a joke about Islam, tomahawk chops, Pakistani accents, fried chicken, afros or headdresses is racist.
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"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill |
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#11 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 801
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“No” says every comedian on the planet. Sometimes culture is funny. Sometimes language is funny. The ugly American abroad is funny. Accents are funny. I’m mostly Dutch and love a good Hollander joke. Stereotypes are great sources of humor because of the inherent grain of truth in them.
Society is no fun when we lose the ability to laugh at ourselves and even at each other. People need to stop looking to be offended all the time. |
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#12 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,924
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This is all very silly. Not so long ago in the UK was a popular kids' show which commenced with drumming and a deep male voice booming 'How!' to which the kiddies had to respond, 'How!'.
Racist bastards. |
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If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb |
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#13 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,069
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#14 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,924
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If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb |
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#15 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 801
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#16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 16,116
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I like to type the word, "Si" in texts to mean yes. A close friend of mine who is not Irish likes to say, "Patrick, me boyo," on greeting me. I'm Irish. My cousin, who works with a lot of India Indians can do a spot-on imitation of their lilting speech.
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My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
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#17 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,248
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Speaking of ugly Americans abroad...
I recall the episode of The Simpsons when they came to Australia. Apparently a lot of people were offended by that episode, which I found hilarious. It was okay for them to make fun of everything else on the Planet, but not Australians. In fact some people even made lists of what they did incorrectly. You have to draw the line somewhere! But reading Planet Simpson, the writers said they started to do research on Australia, but then were afraid they might get some things wrong, so they just decided to get everything wrong. The writers were right. Norm |
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Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain |
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#18 |
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 948
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Like some others have said, and most have voted, depends on context and intent. Plus -- to recount a discussion on another thread a while back -- on whether one is punching 'up' or 'down'. Prince Charles often gets called ugly and a chinless wonder and, while you may or may not find the description accurate, no one reacts to that as one would if you focused on the physical repellance, the physical/racial characteristics, of some dictator of some other country elsewhere. (Not that chinlessness or ugliness is a racial characteristic, but you know what I mean.) Clear double standard that, but one that makes sense in a way.
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#19 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 801
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The ugly American abroad is funny. Being treated like crap in another country just because you’re from America is when it stops being funny.
Accents can be funny. Making fun of an individual trying to just take care of business that you’re struggling to understand is not funny. |
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#20 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,493
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Well, speech patterns aren't a question of culture, race or nationality. I used to be able to do a pretty good imitation of South Jutlandic (Wikipedia). I chose the third option with the following qualifications: Most of us probably grew up thinking that because we were made to think so by parents, teachers, the media etc. Due to confirmation bias, it's quite easy to add to this attitude, but it isn't really difficult to consider your beliefs and discover that many of them aren't based on facts. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#21 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,493
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I love the stories by Carl Barks (Wikipedia). I think he adhered to the same principle when writing about foreign countries. ![]() |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#22 |
Not a doctor.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 17,799
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I don't think that it is a complete definition of racism, but I do think that such a history can lead to racism if such thought processes are not examined later in life.
Anyone who grew up believing that "stepping on a crack will break their mother's back" is a superstitious idiot if they made it into adulthood without reconsidering that belief. |
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#23 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,720
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Fortunately you have a whole wide world of activities and interests to invest in. Don't let yourself be limited by this one little Internet poll.
Quote:
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#24 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,720
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#25 |
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 30,847
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#26 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,366
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"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill |
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#27 |
Embarrasingly illiterate
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,604
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Impossible question to answer without knowing the context of the "mimicry"
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record. Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000 |
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#28 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,720
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#29 |
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 30,847
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"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes." ![]() |
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#30 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,466
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"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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#31 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: School for Rumpology, CT
Posts: 5,659
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You people and your vacuous witless poles.
Oh,oh,oh I have an important question worthy of a poll. Are poll writers more likely to be... A) Really stupid B) Unintelligent C) Hair-brained D) Asinine See, I mimicked these people as a form of expression without resorting to racism. Question answered. The culture of Gallup, Nielsen, ComRes... has been non-racist, good-naturedly zinged. |
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#33 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: School for Rumpology, CT
Posts: 5,659
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#34 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,366
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"I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill |
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#35 | |||
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,864
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Then naturally you sweep the leg.
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#36 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,924
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If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb |
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#37 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,466
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"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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#38 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Norvegr
Posts: 1,002
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Interesting how certain members of this site only seem to post in threads about race and gender.
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Proud Dirtbag Leftist. |
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#39 |
Master Poster
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,610
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I guess dancing in the Nutcracker is right out then.
I voted no |
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Un-american Jack-booted thug Graduate of a liberal arts college! Faster play faster faster play faster |
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#40 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,410
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I dressed up as an Indian for Halloween back in '71
Didn't see anything wrong with it Guess I grew up a racist. |
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