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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , assault incidents , Chicago incidents , Jussie Smollett

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Old 30th January 2019, 05:05 AM   #41
Puppycow
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Sorry if this is behind a paywall.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/a...-attacked.html

Quote:
On Tuesday night, the police said in a statement that the area where Smollett said the attack occurred had “very high density of city and private surveillance cameras.” Detectives had viewed hundreds of hours of video but “unfortunately, thus far we have not found any helpful information on a suspect or a suspect’s vehicle to be able to share,” the statement said. The police were widening their search to cameras from surrounding areas.
Were they ninjas? It just doesn't add up.
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Old 30th January 2019, 05:11 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Sorry if this is behind a paywall.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/a...-attacked.html



Were they ninjas? It just doesn't add up.
They were indeed ninjas. White ninjas, always prepared. We know that because although they appeared to encounter him unexpectedly ("Aren't you that faggot 'Empire' ******?") they were already wearing ski-masks. Being Trump supporting ninjas they likely wear these ski masks 24/7 (and carry bleach, and a noose) just in case they run into a non-white. It all makes sense, don't question it.
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Old 30th January 2019, 05:11 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
The latter. I don't think these attackers exist....
Why on earth would a successful person involve himself in something like this as a deliberate fraud? Does your "sniff test" not work the other way too? Mine does, and the idea that someone would risk ruining their career with a stunt like this fails to pass my sniff test. Unless, of course, you've got some evidence.

The guy has a broken rib and a bashed face. Therefore someone broke his rib and bashed his face. Either he got someone to do that to him and gave them enough incentive to keep quiet about it........or he was attacked. If he was attacked, there were attackers. The only thing I can see to be questioning of is where this attack took place, because it most certainly had to have happened somewhere.
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Old 30th January 2019, 05:12 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
The latter. I don't think these attackers exist.
So far police have been unable to find any evidence of their existence.
That would have to include finding rope, dousing himself with something, and causing at least minor injuries to himself. If this is a hoax, would you agree that it would have to require some degree of planning, and has at least some legal jeopardy attached?

To me, that seems much less likely than him having been assaulted by someone, even if the maga angle is just being made up or sensationalised.

Is it just, or mainly, the lack of video evidence found of an attacker that makes you think this is a hoax, given the comparative likelihood of each case? or do you think it's more likely that this is a fairly elaborate hoax than an assault? I'm a little confused by your position.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:04 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm confused, is this a thread for us to take sides based on our political preferences, or is it a thread to guess what actually happened and hope to be proved right later so we can look clever? Those are the only two schools of skepticism here.
yes to all.

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Old 30th January 2019, 06:11 AM   #46
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Best fake hate crime since the synagogue shooting.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:13 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm confused, is this a thread for us to take sides based on our political preferences, or is it a thread to guess what actually happened and hope to be proved right later so we can look clever? Those are the only two schools of skepticism here.
Oh so you're one of those wishy-washy "Middle Grounders" I see.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:15 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
The latter. I don't think these attackers exist.

So far police have been unable to find any evidence of their existence.
Well, thatís not exactly true, is it? Surely the evidence is:

That he was injured (arenít there photographs of him with cuts and swelling on his face?)
That he was put in a noose of some kind and showed this to police?
That he received some letter through the post a week prior to the attack with similar imagery and a threat?

I mean, you can claim that he might be a dedicated ******** artist and produced all the evidence himself for whatever cockamamie motive you imagine, but all of those things would ordinarily be considered evidence, wouldnít they?
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:15 AM   #49
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Listen, if I was a top paid hollywood actor, and I did something dumb, and got beat up in a bar, or fell off of my bike drunk, and dinged up my face before filming, I might make up some story like some racist-homophobes tried to lynch me.

Generate sympathy for me, while at the same time not looking like a drunk who fell off a scooter in the middle of the night.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:16 AM   #50
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The most questionable thing about this is two white racists recognizing an actor from Empire.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:17 AM   #51
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Alright I'm convinced. Every time a black person is assaulted we need to arrest them for lying.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:20 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Alright I'm convinced. Every time a black person is assaulted we need to arrest them for lying.
Every time a black person makes up a story, in the highest camera-density area of Chicago, about white people attacking them, diminishing an actual claim by someone who is a real victim, we should arrest them for lying.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:23 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Every time a black person makes up a story, in the highest camera-density area of Chicago, about white people attacking them, diminishing an actual claim by someone who is a real victim, we should arrest them for lying.
Which according to some people on this board is literally every crime against black people ever.

And really this whole "Oh black people... don't you be lying now I might not believe you in the future" would come across as a lot more genuine if there was a chance the usual suspects are ever going to believe a report of a white on black crime isn't just race baiting by those uppity colored folks.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:26 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Listen, if I was a top paid hollywood actor, and I did something dumb, and got beat up in a bar, or fell off of my bike drunk, and dinged up my face before filming, I might make up some story like some racist-homophobes tried to lynch me.

Generate sympathy for me, while at the same time not looking like a drunk who fell off a scooter in the middle of the night.
What a brilliant idea! Instead of saying, "I fell off my bicycle while on my morning shop!" write yourself a letter one week in advance and get it posted to yourself, with a postmark, get the police and the press involved by making up some hoax attack, sit back and hope that nobody finds out the holes in your story, or nobody comes forward with mobile phone footage of the fight in the bar and contradicts the fake story you decided to publicize!

There's no way that that story that you planned a week in advance could go horribly and predictably wrong...

What could be a better idea...for a total idiot?!
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:27 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Which according to some people on this board is literally every crime against black people ever.

And really this whole "Oh black people... don't you be lying now I might not believe you in the future" would come across as a lot more genuine if there was a chance the usual suspects were ever going to believe a report of a white on black crime isn't just race baiting by those uppity colored folks.
There are plenty of white on black crimes.
But a drunk guy falling off a Lime Scooter, and then making up an attack by white folks is just terrible.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:29 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Well I said it in the other thread, so I'll repeat it here.

This one will turn out to be a hoax.

Since there is no link here yet, I'll also provide one:

Attackers Put Empire Star in Noose: Report
What do you mean by hoax? The attack didn't occur? The attackers were passing themselves off as MAGA supporters? What?

ETA: Oh I see you answered that earlier this morning.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:32 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm confused, is this a thread for us to take sides based on our political preferences, or is it a thread to guess what actually happened and hope to be proved right later so we can look clever?
No such thing as the latter, TM. Pick a side!
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:33 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
What do you mean by hoax? The attack didn't occur? The attackers were passing themselves off as MAGA supporters? What?

ETA: Oh I see you answered that earlier this morning.
The MAGA supporter thing was added by TMZ.

Journalistic license.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:34 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh so you're one of those wishy-washy "Middle Grounders" I see.
Clearly TM believes in being in the exact middle of every discussion. I have that on good authority.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:35 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
What a brilliant idea! Instead of saying, "I fell off my bicycle while on my morning shop!" write yourself a letter one week in advance and get it posted to yourself, with a postmark, get the police and the press involved by making up some hoax attack, sit back and hope that nobody finds out the holes in your story, or nobody comes forward with mobile phone footage of the fight in the bar and contradicts the fake story you decided to publicize!

There's no way that that story that you planned a week in advance could go horribly and predictably wrong...

What could be a better idea...for a total idiot?!
A few years ago, a guy killed his wife and children. He had planned it for some time and had sent himself threatening letters so when he finally did kill them, he thought he'd already created an alibi for himself with the threatening letters. It didn't work in the end, and they proved he was responsible. So the idea of pre sending yourself threatening letters isn't exactly a new one. Personally, I feel the lack of video evidence and the idea he walked around with a noose around his neck for 45 minutes is a bit troubling.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:42 AM   #61
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I've been to that part of Chicago, the cops are quick to respond.

This wasn't the South Side, this was Streeterville.

no way 45 minutes from time of attack to the cops getting there.
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Old 30th January 2019, 06:50 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
A few years ago, a guy killed his wife and children. He had planned it for some time and had sent himself threatening letters so when he finally did kill them, he thought he'd already created an alibi for himself with the threatening letters. It didn't work in the end, and they proved he was responsible. So the idea of pre sending yourself threatening letters isn't exactly a new one. Personally, I feel the lack of video evidence and the idea he walked around with a noose around his neck for 45 minutes is a bit troubling.
Yeah, if he was planning to kill his wife and children and needed an alibi.

Who the **** plans to do something dumb and get beaten up in a bar or fall off their bike while drunk during filming?

It's trivially easy to say you fell off your bike sober. Not so easy to explain a brutally murdered family. Do you see how your comparison makes no ******* sense at all?

Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Listen, if I was a top paid hollywood actor, and I did something dumb, and got beat up in a bar, or fell off of my bike drunk, and dinged up my face before filming, I might make up some story like some racist-homophobes tried to lynch me.

Generate sympathy for me, while at the same time not looking like a drunk who fell off a scooter in the middle of the night.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:00 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Why on earth would a successful person involve himself in something like this as a deliberate fraud? Does your "sniff test" not work the other way too? Mine does, and the idea that someone would risk ruining their career with a stunt like this fails to pass my sniff test.
That is a good question. Sometimes people take risks that logic says they shouldn't. People aren't always 100% rational.

But here's one possible reason:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...ck/2709986002/

Quote:
Support for Smollett following the attack began pouring in through social media Tuesday, including from his boss, "Empire" co-creator, Lee Daniels, as well as several of his co-stars and celebrity admirers.
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:02 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
....... People aren't always 100% rational........
As your arguments are clearly demonstrating.
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:03 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I've been to that part of Chicago, the cops are quick to respond.

This wasn't the South Side, this was Streeterville.

no way 45 minutes from time of attack to the cops getting there.
10 minutes from when his friend called 911. In other words, the 911 call would have been about 35 minutes after the attack.
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:05 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yeah, if he was planning to kill his wife and children and needed an alibi.

Who the **** plans to do something dumb and get beaten up in a bar or fall off their bike while drunk during filming?

It's trivially easy to say you fell off your bike sober. Not so easy to explain a brutally murdered family. Do you see how your comparison makes no ******* sense at all?
Hollywood actors get hate mail all the time.

I think Jimmy Kimmel does a segment about it. Starts Read Their Own Tweets or something like that. He could have a dozen of those tweets.
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:06 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
That is a good question. Sometimes people take risks that logic says they shouldn't. People aren't always 100% rational.

But here's one possible reason:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...ck/2709986002/
Also remember, drugs or mental illness.

We've lost too many talented people to suicide or drug overdose, this could be a different manifestation of a similar problem.
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:08 AM   #68
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https://etcanada.com/news/366767/sha...-on-instagram/

Other celebrities have fallen off of a scooter, they made light of it.
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:12 AM   #69
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Hoax
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:15 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Also remember, drugs or mental illness.

We've lost too many talented people to suicide or drug overdose, this could be a different manifestation of a similar problem.
Honestly? Sheesh. How did a mental illness break his rib? How did it smash his face up? Did it ever cross your mind for a second that there are some honest people on the planet? That someone who claims to have been beaten up and has the injuries to back up that claim, may have actually been beaten up? No?
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:17 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I've been to that part of Chicago, the cops are quick to respond........
How did you test this assertion? Do you have any statistics which support your test results? Did your test of police arrival times take place at the same time of night as this event? Or have you just plucked this crap out of the air?
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:17 AM   #72
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Still a hoax
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:17 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Honestly? Sheesh. How did a mental illness break his rib? How did it smash his face up? Did it ever cross your mind for a second that there are some honest people on the planet? That someone who claims to have been beaten up and has the injuries to back up that claim, may have actually been beaten up? No?
Mental Illness, he gets high, falls off a scooter, decides to make up the story, thinking he can get away with it.

Injuries are consistent with a scooter injury, not so much with getting beat up by people who hate you for your skin color.
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:19 AM   #74
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Although it does sound to me like a falsification, I'm trying to imagine what kind of scenario would make him think a story like this is more believable than the truth.

The only thing I can think of is a domestic dispute where he still wants to protect his partner.
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:22 AM   #75
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Smears first. Facts later. How much deader can American journalism get?
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:30 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
How did you test this assertion? Do you have any statistics which support your test results? Did your test of police arrival times take place at the same time of night as this event? Or have you just plucked this crap out of the air?
https://www.aclu-il.org/en/press-rel...ices-south-and
Quote:
For example, in July of 2013, residents in Grand Crossing, a minority neighborhood, waited an average of 11 minutes (10:41) for an officer to be dispatched in response to a Priority 1 call; by contrast, residents in Jefferson Park, a predominantly white neighborhood, had an average wait time of less than 2.5 minutes (2:26). The dispatch time was nearly 4.5 times longer in this minority district.
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:31 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
.......Injuries are consistent with a scooter injury, not so much with getting beat up by people who hate you for your skin color.
You know this precisely how? You're some sort of medical forensics expert, are you? You know that he has access to a scooter too, and presumably you've got evidence he was riding it in that area that night?
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:33 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Wrong time of day (late morning as opposed to middle of the night). So, as I said, got any evidence? And do you know this was made a Piority 1 call?
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:41 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Wrong time of day (late morning as opposed to middle of the night). So, as I said, got any evidence? And do you know this was made a Piority 1 call?
That is one of the richest neighborhoods in Chicago.

Those neighborhoods average far lower response times than the rest of Chicago.
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Old 30th January 2019, 07:46 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Although it does sound to me like a falsification, I'm trying to imagine what kind of scenario would make him think a story like this is more believable than the truth.

The only thing I can think of is a domestic dispute where he still wants to protect his partner.
This is perhaps one possibility. Otherwise it is pretty insane.
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