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Old 5th February 2019, 05:33 PM   #201
angrysoba
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What's funny is that Liam Neeson's interview persona is very similar to his fake-Liam-Neeson persona.

He should have said he was Ricky-Gervaising the whole time:

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I AGREE
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 5th February 2019, 05:33 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
This is why the term is called "woke." There is a process of change involved.
Make your case.
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Old 5th February 2019, 05:35 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
As a fan of Liam Neeson action movies, and tales of righteous retribution in general, I'm telling you I'm *not* the right audience for this kind of racism confessional bull ****.

And I doubt there's a PR flack anywhere in Hollywood who would tell Liam Neeson to play up the racist angle, in an anecdote intended to sell his movie.
Absolutely! John Barnes said the same thing to the Sky News guy who said something like, "a cynical part of me might say he's just trying to drum up a bit of publicity for his new film..."

Barnes retorted something like, "Do you really think he wants the whole world to think he's a racist and receive a massive backlash for these words just to promote a film?!?"
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 5th February 2019, 05:43 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Make your case.
Make the case for what?
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Old 5th February 2019, 05:45 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Make the case for what?
For your claim about the term, "woke".
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Old 5th February 2019, 05:54 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
For your claim about the term, "woke".
Here is the root outlining the levels of wokeness and getting woke.

https://www.theroot.com/the-6-degree...ess-1819384614

Quote:
Level 2: Groggy
One day, while sleepwalking through life, Jimmy (his full name is Jamaal, but that sounds so black) happens upon a video of a cop shooting an unarmed black man at point-blank range. (It doesn’t matter which one: Philando Castile, Alton Sterling, Eric Garner, Sam Dubose, Sylville Smith, Anthony Lamar Smith ... ) Or maybe Jimmy overhears one of his best Caucasian friends telling a racist joke, and he realizes, “Wait ... what the **** am I doing?”

Jimmy begins noticing the things he’s ignored, like oppression, racism and historical truth. People who are just getting woke have the perpetual facial expression of someone who just walked into a gas station bathroom immediately after a person with explosive diarrhea just finished. They notice there’s **** everywhere.
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Old 5th February 2019, 05:55 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
This is why the term is called "woke." There is a process of change involved.
This is interesting


Exactly what does this term "woke" mean?

What exactly does it involve?
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Old 5th February 2019, 08:00 PM   #208
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This anecdote sounds like the plot of Death Wish.
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Old 5th February 2019, 08:10 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
This anecdote sounds like the plot of Death Wish.
Except in Death Wish the dude actually did damage
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 5th February 2019, 09:18 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think while not condoning his actual event, you have a dude who was brought up in one of the roughest towns in Northern Ireland during the worst of the Troubles.

People killing each other left right and center. Horrible stuff most people couldn't imagine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles_in_Ballymena

Violence would have been the go to he would have seen in any situation like this.

I think the race element is kind of incidental, though I may be wrong.

What I do know from hearing the interview is that he is obviously remorseful and ashamed of his actions.

If it costs him his acting career, it costs him his acting career, but their is a fair bit of lynch mob, jury by social media "holier than thou" crap going on again, which is getting tedious.
I doubt it'll ultimately hurt him too much, he'll still have a pretty good career. Still, there are definitely going to be some people that will not want to see anything involving him again - and that's their right.

(Personally, I think he sounds like he was a complete idiot - but he admits to this, he didn't actually harm anyone, and I think there should be room for people who say "Yeah, I was on some real BS then, I'm a better person today and I'm happy about that". And frankly, I still enjoy James Brown, Miles Davis, Big Punisher, and the Cosby Show, despite all of the above musicians and Cosby having done some pretty awful things in life...)
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Old 5th February 2019, 09:34 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I doubt it'll ultimately hurt him too much, he'll still have a pretty good career. Still, there are definitely going to be some people that will not want to see anything involving him again - and that's their right.

(Personally, I think he sounds like he was a complete idiot - but he admits to this, he didn't actually harm anyone, and I think there should be room for people who say "Yeah, I was on some real BS then, I'm a better person today and I'm happy about that". And frankly, I still enjoy James Brown, Miles Davis, Big Punisher, and the Cosby Show, despite all of the above musicians and Cosby having done some pretty awful things in life...)
Tend to agree

Tearful hour long exclusive interview with Oprah or Ellen tends to heal all global wounds these days. He should do that.

To me, kind of an annoying reactionary, lynchy, group think mentality world we are living in now, but it is what it is.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 5th February 2019, 10:02 PM   #212
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No red carpet for you...

https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...lowing-remarks
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 5th February 2019, 10:08 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Tearful hour long exclusive interview with Oprah or Ellen tends to heal all global wounds these days. He should do that.
I hope not. Do we really need to see Liam Neeson blubbing on a sofa? I think that would kill off his career even more certainly.

Instead he should say, "Look, one of the people I played was Oskar Schindler. Anyone remember that? Well, we all think he was a good person now even though he was totally an actual Nazi. Think of me exactly the same way, please! Also, please put me in a role of Frederick Douglass in future, because I now know exactly what persecution is like."
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 5th February 2019, 11:21 PM   #214
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"I don't know who you are. But if don't let my daughter go now, I will find you, I will kill you" ... or someone else of your race.

Liam Neeson: "... 'Please leave a message" (The Graham Norton Show)

At 2:18
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Old 6th February 2019, 01:06 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I really can't see the addition of details would do anything but make the story even more unbelievable.

Do you think the plot of Taken would be improved if Bryan Mills, upon hearing that his daughter had been kidnapped, had said, "I can't be arsed to track down the people who did it, instead I'm going to stick a billy club down my pants and hang around some Albanian coffee shops in the hope I'll be accosted by a 'swarthy bastard'?"
I have no idea what that film is. What I do know is that Northern Ireland 40 years ago wasn't exactly big on the live-and-let-live side of things. Maybe if she'd said the rapist was English, he might have joined the IRA so he could blow some of us up.
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Old 6th February 2019, 01:10 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by ThatGuy11200 View Post
I have no idea what that film is. What I do know is that Northern Ireland 40 years ago wasn't exactly big on the live-and-let-live side of things. Maybe if she'd said the rapist was English, he might have joined the IRA so he could blow some of us up.

Edit:

Actually wrong by me.

If they said it was a prod' then he might have been killing.

He was RC
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

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Old 6th February 2019, 01:25 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Ah. That was meant to be a bit of a joke, though. :/



Wait, how do you know this? Based on the story it's the only bit of information that he had to go on. Obviously not enough to go on a witch hunt, but I don't get where you're getting the above. It sounds like you're adding speculation in order to justify a conclusion; namely that he's a racist.
i assume if he knew the skin colour he also knew height build eye colour hair colour possibly accent and clothes worn shoes worn etc. he knew where it happened. there are many things he could have chosen to latch on to but he chose skin colour.

ps i didnt say he is a racist. i said this act was racist. and if we really are at the point where walking the streets lookimg to kill any black man isn't racist to some then the word may well have lost all meaning
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:35 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
i assume if he knew the skin colour he also knew height build eye colour hair colour possibly accent and clothes worn shoes worn etc. he knew where it happened. there are many things he could have chosen to latch on to but he chose skin colour.

ps i didnt say he is a racist. i said this act was racist. and if we really are at the point where walking the streets lookimg to kill any black man isn't racist to some then the word may well have lost all meaning
a) It was 40 years ago

b) We only have tit bits of what was actually asked or said

c) He is obviously remorseful and ashamed of his actions
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:46 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
But he freely said that his targets for revenge were based on skin color, as I said.



And he'll find little applause for this. As a story of how he grew out of being a violent idiot, it's fine. As a story about how admirable he is and please go see his movie to reward him, it sucks.
The rapist was described to him as black. It would be odd if he then went out and targeted Lithuanians.
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:49 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
a) It was 40 years ago

b) We only have tit bits of what was actually asked or said

c) He is obviously remorseful and ashamed of his actions
AGG just said he isn’t saying Neeson is racist, but the action is surely racist if the word has meaning. Your reply makes no sense as a reply to what he said.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:51 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The rapist was described to him as black. It would be odd if he then went out and targeted Lithuanians.
Yeah, but notice he didn’t say “what nationality was he?” He specifically asked “was he black?”
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:53 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
The people he sought revenge on raped noone, but were guilty of being black.
From everything thing he has said, that was just an identifying factor, just as if the rapist had been British or Lithuanian. He also said he was going out to look for a fight.
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:55 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
AGG just said he isn’t saying Neeson is racist, but the action is surely racist if the word has meaning. Your reply makes no sense as a reply to what he said.
Edit: Re-read it

My point still stands.

How are we "at the point"
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:57 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yeah, but notice he didn’t say “what nationality was he?” He specifically asked “was he black?”
That was in the original interview, in a later interview he also said he was trying to find out what group of people the rapist came from and he referenced other groups, which was clearly based on who was in Ireland at that time, which was primarily Irish with a few smaller sub groups.
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Old 6th February 2019, 03:14 AM   #225
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It does seem like a clear case of racism to me, as he described it in his own words. To be fair, he said that he regretted it and learned from it, but it was a racist thought to have.

Some things are better left unsaid. If you have certain illicit thoughts that are unhelpful or likely to cause others to feel uncomfortable, perhaps it's best to keep them to yourself or to a professional therapist who has a professional obligation to keep patient confidentiality. Or maybe a close friend or spouse.

It's a PR disaster that he said this to a journalist.

Like Shemp said, it's a bit like whacking a hornet's nest with a stick.
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Old 6th February 2019, 03:16 AM   #226
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I think that Neeson said something seriously stupid in the original interview, which was intended to explain his role as someone hunting for revenge. The context was a discussion about his latest revenge film. He tried to give an example of when he wanted revenge.

In subsequent interviews and statements his recollection of exactly what was said has been shown to very unreliable. I do not know if he can be believed that the conversation was anything as he recalled it, and I would not be surprised if he is making the whole rape claim and desire for revenge up.

I think Neeson has been an idiot far more than he has been racist. I am sympathetic towards him because from the outset, he has admitted he was an idiot and he has been very apologetic.
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Old 6th February 2019, 03:32 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
i assume if he knew the skin colour he also knew height build eye colour hair colour possibly accent and clothes worn shoes worn etc.
Why do you assume this, since it's not part of the information we know?

Quote:
ps i didnt say he is a racist. i said this act was racist.
Come on. Would you accept such a distinction from another poster?
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Old 6th February 2019, 03:35 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Here is the root outlining the levels of wokeness and getting woke.

https://www.theroot.com/the-6-degree...ess-1819384614
Appalling grammar. The word surely should be 'awakening'.
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Old 6th February 2019, 03:37 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
This anecdote sounds like the plot of Death Wish.
Not really, because Bronson went after the gangs who were terrorising NY subways. I dare say this was a euphemism for the ethnicity of the guys he went after.
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Old 6th February 2019, 03:45 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I think that Neeson said something seriously stupid in the original interview, which was intended to explain his role as someone hunting for revenge. The context was a discussion about his latest revenge film. He tried to give an example of when he wanted revenge.

In subsequent interviews and statements his recollection of exactly what was said has been shown to very unreliable. I do not know if he can be believed that the conversation was anything as he recalled it, and I would not be surprised if he is making the whole rape claim and desire for revenge up.

I think Neeson has been an idiot far more than he has been racist. I am sympathetic towards him because from the outset, he has admitted he was an idiot and he has been very apologetic.
Agree with pretty much everything, except it was 40 years ago , so reliability of memory is always going to be suss
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Old 6th February 2019, 03:46 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I think that Neeson said something seriously stupid in the original interview, which was intended to explain his role as someone hunting for revenge. The context was a discussion about his latest revenge film. He tried to give an example of when he wanted revenge.

In subsequent interviews and statements his recollection of exactly what was said has been shown to very unreliable. I do not know if he can be believed that the conversation was anything as he recalled it, and I would not be surprised if he is making the whole rape claim and desire for revenge up.

I think Neeson has been an idiot far more than he has been racist. I am sympathetic towards him because from the outset, he has admitted he was an idiot and he has been very apologetic.
I have to come clean and say I am one of those people who cannot stand this recent tide of #meetoo stuff and incessant torrent of news of people being ostracised for being this that or the other un-PC.

This Neeson issue is similar bollocks insofar as he is now barred from having a film premiere. Last year, Aled Jones had all of his tv appearances scrapped because some past risqué email exchanges came to light and he was being 'investigated' (he was later 'cleared' and now pops up all the time). It is bonkers crazy.

However, I have met people like Liam Neeson and they always claim to now be ashamed of themselves, when in truth they are enormously proud of their racist nastiness and love talking about the racist things they've done, thinking it is all right as long as they add the disclaimer, 'I am really sorry now I realise the error of my ways'. ********.
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Old 6th February 2019, 03:56 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I have to come clean and say I am one of those people who cannot stand this recent tide of #meetoo stuff and incessant torrent of news of people being ostracised for being this that or the other un-PC.

This Neeson issue is similar bollocks insofar as he is now barred from having a film premiere. Last year, Aled Jones had all of his tv appearances scrapped because some past risqué email exchanges came to light and he was being 'investigated' (he was later 'cleared' and now pops up all the time). It is bonkers crazy.

However, I have met people like Liam Neeson and they always claim to now be ashamed of themselves, when in truth they are enormously proud of their racist nastiness and love talking about the racist things they've done, thinking it is all right as long as they add the disclaimer, 'I am really sorry now I realise the error of my ways'. ********.
Perhaps you would indulge us to a quote of him being

"enormously proud of their racist nastiness and love talking about the racist things they've done, thinking it is all right as long as they add the disclaimer, 'I am really sorry now I realise the error of my ways'."

Vixen. It might help making sense of your point
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:02 AM   #233
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The vibe I am getting from somein this thread is that it is unacceptable to have been racist in the past and to have learned better.

The only acceptable position is never to have been racist. Yes?
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:19 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Perhaps you would indulge us to a quote of him being

"enormously proud of their racist nastiness and love talking about the racist things they've done, thinking it is all right as long as they add the disclaimer, 'I am really sorry now I realise the error of my ways'."

Vixen. It might help making sense of your point
He has bragged of committing a criminal offence of stalking the streets with a cosh (if this took place in the UK) looking for a random person to assault based on hate. How many people do you know publicly declare they have committed a crime, unless they are secretly proud of themselves..?
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:26 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
a) It was 40 years ago

b) We only have tit bits of what was actually asked or said

c) He is obviously remorseful and ashamed of his actions
Which is all good, and surely mitigating factors in deciding whether Liam Neeson needs to be hung drawn and quartered for the act, but doesn't for a second change the fact that the action itself was a racist action.

Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
From everything thing he has said, that was just an identifying factor, just as if the rapist had been British or Lithuanian. He also said he was going out to look for a fight.
Well let's try this another way. If it was the police rather than Neeson who had been reported that a black man had raped a woman and they went out and arrested every black man they could find and charged him with rape then I hope we could agree that would be racist policing? Neeson is effectively doing the same thing here.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Edit: Re-read it

My point still stands.

How are we "at the point"
Read this thread. A few posters are questioning whether the action was racist. Now saying that it was a racist act but it was 40 years ago and he has changed and regrets it is fine but that's different than saying it wasn't a racist act

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Why do you assume this, since it's not part of the information we know?
Because if you are able to see his skin colour you are also able to see someone's height and build and hair colour and a number of other things about them. And whether they are for example wearing a hat. Had he been wearing a baseball cap do you think Neeson would have gone out looking to take revenge on anyone wearing a baseball cap?

Quote:
Come on. Would you accept such a distinction from another poster?
A lot can change about a person in 40 years. To insist that Liam Neeson is a racist because he did something racist 40 years ago under stress I think would be too harsh.

Originally Posted by Robin View Post
The vibe I am getting from somein this thread is that it is unacceptable to have been racist in the past and to have learned better.

The only acceptable position is never to have been racist. Yes?
The best position is never to have been racist. The next best is to have been racist and acknowledge that you were wrong.

But that wouldn't change the fact that what you did was racist and unacceptable when you did it.
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:33 AM   #236
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Lionsgate on Tuesday canned the red carpet for the New York City premiere of Liam Neeson’s new film “Cold Pursuit,” after the actor admitted decades-old thoughts of wanting to kill some “black bastard” when a close friend told him she was raped.
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:34 AM   #237
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How many additional characteristics are required to stop it being a racist act?
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:36 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
How many additional characteristics are required to stop it being a racist act?
Liam supported Hillary. He gets a pass
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:45 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
That was in the original interview, in a later interview he also said he was trying to find out what group of people the rapist came from and he referenced other groups, which was clearly based on who was in Ireland at that time, which was primarily Irish with a few smaller sub groups.
He only said that after he had been prodded by the interviewer, and he still referred to what he did as racism and bigotry. As it was.

Besides, Lithuanians were not in Ireland in large numbers back then as they are now. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there were no Lithuanians at all.
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:50 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Edit: Re-read it

My point still stands.

How are we "at the point"
People in this thread are denying it is racist to punish someone on the sole ground that they shared the same skin colour as another person that they have a grievance with. That's the point we are at in this thread, regardless of how long ago it was, and how apologetic he is about it, or how much of the conversation he divulged. Your objections to that claim are just fatuous attempts to cloud the issue.
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