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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , environmental activists , Greta Thunberg

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Old 19th May 2020, 12:06 PM   #1881
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
With respect to her followers... I can definitely understand that point. I haven't run across it directly, but that's mostly because I just don't pay a lot of attention to the climate argument these days. I'm already fairly convinced, and I'm already doing what I reasonably can do. So I tend to ignore the rest of it. But I wouldn't be surprised if she has a vociferous and overly passionate following. That same kind of phenomenon was one of my main objections to Bernie Sanders. I mean, I wasn't all that enamored of his positions in general, but they'd have been a lot more palatable if it weren't for his followers...
Not that you should read the thread entire, but I think it does present several examples of people who support Greta lashing out at people who critique her activism and its results.
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Old 19th May 2020, 12:14 PM   #1882
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Not that you should read the thread entire, but I think it does present several examples of people who support Greta lashing out at people who critique her activism and its results.
I'm not confident that I can separate the "lashing out because they're a Greta fan" from the "lashing out because they're an ISF member"...
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Old 19th May 2020, 05:08 PM   #1883
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I object to the derogatory characterisation of people who pay attention to and admire her as a "fan club". That phrase certainly has a valid and non-derogatory function, but that's not what has been happening in this thread. It's very clearly being used to disparage and condescend.
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Old 19th May 2020, 06:03 PM   #1884
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I object to the derogatory characterisation of people who pay attention to and admire her as a "fan club". That phrase certainly has a valid and non-derogatory function, but that's not what has been happening in this thread. It's very clearly being used to disparage and condescend.
For ten months you've been in this thread while Greta's supporters hurled abuse at anyone who dissented. Now you're suddenly upset about derogatory terms a single mildly derogatory term that has gotten applied to Greta's abusive supporters? Why not simply address the critiques as such, rather than playing this game of silly buggers?

Also, do you mind if I refer to people who defend Greta and her activism against critiques her supporters? Would that clear your way to addressing the critiques?
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Old 19th May 2020, 06:05 PM   #1885
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Also, do you mind if I refer to people who defend Greta and her activism against critiques her supporters? Would that clear your way to addressing the critiques?
Supporters is a much better term, yes.
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Old 19th May 2020, 07:48 PM   #1886
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"Devotee" would probably be more appropriate?
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Old 19th May 2020, 07:52 PM   #1887
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
"Devotee" would probably be more appropriate?
No, that has exactly the same level of sarcasm as "fan club" does. "Supporter/s" is fine.
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Old 19th May 2020, 08:04 PM   #1888
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No, that has exactly the same level of sarcasm as "fan club" does. "Supporter/s" is fine.
Supporters tend to not always agree with every single thing the person they support does though.

Where devotees do, which is kind of Greta people.
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Old 19th May 2020, 09:11 PM   #1889
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The more I learn about her background, the more it seems to me that the normal existential fears about the future and the world that we all experience, have in her case been exacerbated by her other conditions, and further irresponsibly stoked and encouraged by those close to her. No, I'm not going to go into detail about this. I'm not going to argue with anyone here about the mental health of a teenager. Do your own research, make up your own mind. I've said everything I intend to say on this point.
You are citing her “conditions” and saying that she has an heightened fear of the future and of the world. And you are refusing to argue with anyone?Further, you are stamping your feet in advance lest anyone takes you to task for this judgement of yours?

Okay, maybe you have taken over this forum and can make dogmatic decrees like this. But assuming you have not, this post is utter ******** and your attempts to bully people into not questioning your ridiculous diagnosis is shameful.
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Old 19th May 2020, 09:32 PM   #1890
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Supporters tend to not always agree with every single thing the person they support does though.

Where devotees do, which is kind of Greta people.
See, now you're stereotyping and making assumptions again.
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Old 19th May 2020, 09:36 PM   #1891
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
See, now you're stereotyping and making assumptions again.
Fair point.

Let us have a test.

What are 3 things disagree with her on?
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Old 19th May 2020, 09:40 PM   #1892
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Fair point.

Let us have a test.

What are 3 things disagree with her on?
No, let us not. I don't have to cave in to your petty demands any more than Greta does.
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Old 19th May 2020, 10:42 PM   #1893
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Petty demands ? You mean like objecting to the term "fan club" ?
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Old 19th May 2020, 10:43 PM   #1894
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Can we get back to the subject please?
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Old 20th May 2020, 11:35 AM   #1895
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Fair point.

Let us have a test.

What are 3 things disagree with her on?
I'll take that question.

I disagree with her statement that all fossil fuel use must end.

I disagree with her statement that meat production must be reduced.

I disagree with her regarding reducing the production of goods and services.

I disagree with her far left political positions and support of organizations like antifa.

There is 4.....need more?
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Old 20th May 2020, 12:03 PM   #1896
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
I disagree with her regarding reducing the production of goods and services.

Then I guess it's good that you were only asked to name three: https://twitter.com/gretathunberg/st...943232?lang=en
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Old 20th May 2020, 12:10 PM   #1897
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No, that has exactly the same level of sarcasm as "fan club" does. "Supporter/s" is fine.
Point of order: "Fan club" and "devotees" are not sarcastic. They are sincere expressions of a negative view of those groups.
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Old 20th May 2020, 12:14 PM   #1898
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
You are citing her “conditions” and saying that she has an heightened fear of the future and of the world. And you are refusing to argue with anyone?Further, you are stamping your feet in advance lest anyone takes you to task for this judgement of yours?

Okay, maybe you have taken over this forum and can make dogmatic decrees like this. But assuming you have not, this post is utter ******** and your attempts to bully people into not questioning your ridiculous diagnosis is shameful.
I trust that Emily's Cat will take my answer to her question in the spirit in which it was offered.
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Old 20th May 2020, 12:16 PM   #1899
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
See, now you're stereotyping and making assumptions again.
Greta's supporters in thread have been making hateful stereotypes about her critics for the past ten months. Why don't you ever call out any of that? Your tone policing is entirely one-sided.
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Old 20th May 2020, 12:17 PM   #1900
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Can we get back to the subject please?
Says the guy who just spent the past 2-3 days trying to get away from the subject.
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Old 20th May 2020, 12:35 PM   #1901
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I trust that Emily's Cat will take my answer to her question in the spirit in which it was offered.
I think I did?
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Old 20th May 2020, 12:49 PM   #1902
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I think I did?
I think you did, too.
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Old 20th May 2020, 01:14 PM   #1903
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Then I guess it's good that you were only asked to name three: https://twitter.com/gretathunberg/st...943232?lang=en
good, then one less thing I disagree with.

She is a smart kid. Probably make a good skeptic one day too. She just needs more life experience.
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Old 20th May 2020, 01:48 PM   #1904
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Mod Warning Be civil and stop bickering, please.
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Old 20th May 2020, 07:46 PM   #1905
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I trust that Emily's Cat will take my answer to her question in the spirit in which it was offered.
Funny thing about internet forums. Comments can be read by anyone, and can be responded to by anyone.
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Old 21st May 2020, 02:01 AM   #1906
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Greta writes:

In early April, daily CO2 emissions temporarily fell 17%, to levels last seen in...2006.
This is not “good news”.
And it will basically have no effect on accumulative CO2 levels. But it really shows how much our emissions have increased the last decade..

The idea that the climate crisis will just be “solved” by so called green investments and stimulus plans is of course out of touch with reality.
We can not solve a crisis without treating it as a crisis.
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Old 21st May 2020, 06:55 AM   #1907
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Funny thing about internet forums. Comments can be read by anyone, and can be responded to by anyone.
Yep! I summarized my posiition for Emily's Cat, because she asked; and included a note for some of the other people I knew would also be reading. It seems like everyone got the point they were supposed to get, so I figure I did a pretty good job.
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Old 21st May 2020, 06:57 AM   #1908
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Greta writes:

In early April, daily CO2 emissions temporarily fell 17%, to levels last seen in...2006.
This is not “good news”.
And it will basically have no effect on accumulative CO2 levels. But it really shows how much our emissions have increased the last decade..

The idea that the climate crisis will just be “solved” by so called green investments and stimulus plans is of course out of touch with reality.
We can not solve a crisis without treating it as a crisis.
My understanding is that her idea of "treating it as a crisis" is still along the lines of hitting the IPCC's emissions reductions targets for <1.5 degrees increase in the next 10 years*.

Is that also your understanding? Do you agree with her position?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 01:35 PM   #1909
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Could a green new deal turn South Korea from climate villain to model?
Country’s youngest MP is on a mission, inspired by Greta Thunberg, as climate moves up political agenda

A year ago, Soyoung Lee was one of a crowd of climate activists demonstrating on the streets of Seoul in a campaign inspired by the global school strike founder Greta Thunberg.

Today, the 35-year-old lawyer is the youngest member of the South Korean parliament and a driving force in the government’s green new deal, which aims to create millions of jobs in renewable energy and help the economy recover from the coronavirus lockdown.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 02:08 PM   #1910
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Betteridge's Law of Headlines.

Also, I missed the memo where we're supposed to think of South Korea as a "climate villain."
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Old 23rd May 2020, 02:28 PM   #1911
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Also, I missed the memo where we're supposed to think of South Korea as a "climate villain."
https://www.climatechangenews.com/20...mate_villains/

You're welcome.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 03:16 PM   #1912
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Thanks!

So what do you think? Is the proposed GND going to help South Korea meet their part of Greta's target emissions reductions?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 04:47 PM   #1913
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If you've read the article, your guess is as good as mine.
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Old 24th May 2020, 03:26 AM   #1914
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I am slightly* disappointed that Greta Thunberg hasn't joined the protests against Sweden's pandemic response.

* Only slightly because it obviously takes guts for a 17-year-old to stand up against your own government and Sweden's consensus culture.
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Old 24th May 2020, 10:46 AM   #1915
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Maybe she used all her Brave Campaigner energy standing up to the power elite at COP25 and Davos.

Or maybe she's spent the past few years of her life focused on climate change issues, and hasn't yet decided that Sweden's pandemic response is worth protesting in the same way.

Maybe she's feeling a little burned out from selling TV shows on CNN.

Also, why does Greta have to be the poster child for every protest issue in the world? She's famous for protesting global climate policy. That doesn't mean she's supposed to use her fame on every single issue there is.

Reddit has a sub for people who have only read Harry Potter and interpret everything in the world in terms of Harry Potter: r/readanotherbook

Maybe there needs to be a sub for people who see every issue in the world in terms of Greta Thunberg. r/findanotheractivist, perhaps.

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Old 24th May 2020, 11:31 AM   #1916
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
If you've read the article, your guess is as good as mine.
Heh. At this point it seems like Greta's critics have more to say about her work than her supporters do.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:14 PM   #1917
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Could a green new deal turn South Korea from climate villain to model?
Country’s youngest MP is on a mission, inspired by Greta Thunberg, as climate moves up political agenda

A year ago, Soyoung Lee was one of a crowd of climate activists demonstrating on the streets of Seoul in a campaign inspired by the global school strike founder Greta Thunberg.

Today, the 35-year-old lawyer is the youngest member of the South Korean parliament and a driving force in the government’s green new deal, which aims to create millions of jobs in renewable energy and help the economy recover from the coronavirus lockdown.
Oh, jeez, the millions of jobs in renewable energy fantasy.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:29 PM   #1918
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Heh. At this point it seems like Greta's critics have more to say about her work than her supporters do.
Which implies that you have more criticisms, since there is no way you have been able to obfuscate your lack of support.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:43 PM   #1919
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Heh. At this point it seems like Greta's critics have more to say about her work than her supporters do.
Your question was actually about South Korea's climate change policies, not Greta Thunberg's work.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:51 PM   #1920
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Your question was actually about South Korea's climate change policies, not Greta Thunberg's work.
It's a thread about Greta's work. The article says the lawmaker was inspired by Greta's work. My question was about the proposal in the context of Greta's work. Do you not have anything to say about the proposal, in the context of Greta's work?
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