ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags !MOD BOX WARNING!

Reply
Old 11th July 2019, 07:36 AM   #1361
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 736
[Quran 39.5] [Allah] Created the heavens and the Earth in truth. He overlaps [Yukawer in Arabic يُكَوِّرُ] the night over the day and overlaps [Yukawer يُكَوِّرُ] the day over the night, and enslaved the sun and the moon. ALL MOVE (Kullon Yajree كل يجري) to a prerecorded destiny. Is He not the Exalted, the Forgiver?

http://www.miracles-of-quran.com/earth.htm
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th July 2019, 07:52 AM   #1362
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,615
The majority of the English translations of the Quran verse 36.38 say the sun goes to a resting place. The following hadith makes it clear what this means. It means Muhammad thought the sun orbits a flat earth, and is reset to its starting point every dawn.

The hadith also says the one day the sun will be sent back on its course and then it will rise in the west. This would only happen if it were orbiting the earth, not as some lying Imams claim, if it were orbiting the galaxy.

36:38

Pickthall- And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.

Yusuf Ali- And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him: that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.

Hilali-Khan- And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the Decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing.

Shakir- And the sun runs on to a term appointed for it; that is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knowing.

Sher Ali- And the sun is moving on to its determined goal. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing God.

Khalifa- The sun sets into a specific location, according to the design of the Almighty, the Omniscient.

Arberry- And the sun -- it runs to a fixed resting-place; that is the ordaining of the All-mighty, the All-knowing.

Palmer- and the sun runs on to a place of rest for it; that is the ordinance of the mighty, the wise.

Rodwell- And the Sun hasteneth to her place of rest. This, the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knowing!

Sale- And the sun hasteneth to his place of rest. This [is] the disposition of the mighty, the wise [God].

Darwood- THe sun hastens on to its resting place its course is laid for it by the mighty one, the All-knowing.

Marriful- And the sun is quickly proceeding towards its resting place.



Hadith Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421:
Narrated Abu Dhar:

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (36.38)
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th July 2019, 09:47 AM   #1363
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,279
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
[Quran 39.5]
Obvious spam is obvious.
JayUtah is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th July 2019, 12:38 PM   #1364
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 18,719
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
[Quran 39.5] [Allah] Created the heavens and the Earth in truth. He overlaps [Yukawer in Arabic يُكَوِّرُ] the night over the day and overlaps [Yukawer يُكَوِّرُ] the day over the night, and enslaved the sun and the moon. ALL MOVE (Kullon Yajree كل يجري) to a prerecorded destiny. Is He not the Exalted, the Forgiver?

http://www.miracles-of-quran.com/earth.htm
No, he isn't. Allah is a figment of fevered imaginations, nothing more. It is foolish to believe in him/her/it/housecat. It is not real.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th July 2019, 03:28 PM   #1365
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 736
If Barnabas wrote it this is the book of hadith too

The books of people like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John or Bukhari are hadith books.

As you know, the only true holy book we have is the Qur'an.

Now there is allegedly a new Gospel of Barnabas in Turkey.

"Vatican In Shock As 1,500-Year-Old Bible Claims Jesus Wasn’t Crucified"

http://allchristiannews.com/vatican-...f1eRc.facebook

If Barnabas wrote it, it is a book of hadith, not a holy book. If it is the true Bible, it will contain the words of God, just like the Qur'an.

"An approximately 1,500-2,000-year-old Bible found in Turkey has left the Vatican in shock because it allegedly confirms that Jesus Christ wasn’t crucified as has come to be widely believed. "
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th July 2019, 05:17 PM   #1366
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,279
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
As you know, the only true holy book we have is the Qur'an.
No. To this audience they are all equally superstitious. And no one cares to hear you evangelize your peculiar brand of Islam. You aren't intellectually capable of actually discussing these issues in a comparative religion sort of way, which is the only real interest this forum has.

Quote:
Now there is allegedly a new Gospel of Barnabas in Turkey.
And if you knew anything about early Christian scripture, you'd know there is a lot of apocryphal stuff that Christians rightly reject as, well, apocryphal. Stop getting your information about other religions from click bait.
JayUtah is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 03:08 AM   #1367
steenkh
Philosopher
 
steenkh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 5,578
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
And if you knew anything about early Christian scripture, you'd know there is a lot of apocryphal stuff that Christians rightly reject as, well, apocryphal.
(My emphasis). What do you mean by "rightly" here? It could mean "upholding the existing dogma", but I doubt that is what you mean.
The description of this scripture sounds to me like a piece of forgery, and perhaps that is what you meant?
__________________
Steen

--
Jack of all trades - master of none!
steenkh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 07:49 AM   #1368
Earthborn
Terrestrial Intelligence
 
Earthborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Terra Firma
Posts: 6,034
It could be an interesting find, but unfortunately none of the "experts and religious bodies" that have studied the thing are named in the article, and the links the article uses to the source don't seem to work anymore. If there was any scholarly research done on it, you would expect there to be some article in a scholarly journal instead of on a now non-existent news article on a now non-existent website as its only source.

I bet most experts on these things would consider the book very odd and would hesitate declaring it as "authentic". I mean, the text is written in gold; that's pretty weird, innit? How do you even write in gold?

Even if it is authentic, if the estimate of its age of 1500 years is off by just a few hundred years, the fact that it "foretells" the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) becomes a lot less impressive. The article also doesn't mention how specific this foretelling is.
__________________
Perhaps nothing is entirely true; and not even that!
Multatuli
Earthborn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 09:10 AM   #1369
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,615
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The books of people like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John or Bukhari are hadith books.
Hadiths in Islam refers to the record of the words, actions, and the silent approval, of the Islamic prophet Muhammad.
The bible books are not called hadiths
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
As you know, the only true holy book we have is the Qur'an.
If the Quran is a holy book we are all doomed, because the God it describes is a monster.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 09:30 AM   #1370
erlando
Graduate Poster
 
erlando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,504
Fiction down to the last comma all of it. A tool of man written to dominate and suppress other people.
__________________
"If it can grow, it can evolve" - Eugenie Scott, Ph.D Creationism disproved?
Evolution IS a blind watchmaker
erlando is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 10:24 AM   #1371
steenkh
Philosopher
 
steenkh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 5,578
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
If the Quran is a holy book we are all doomed, because the God it describes is a monster.
In short, much like the God in the Bible! Thank God, both of these books were written by ordinary humans.
__________________
Steen

--
Jack of all trades - master of none!
steenkh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 03:12 PM   #1372
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 736
"The gospel claims that Christ was neither crucified nor was he God’s son. Instead, it says he was just a prophet. The book also refers to Apostle Paul as “The Impostor” and further claims that Christ ascended back to heaven alive, with Judas Iscariot being crucified in his place."

They are accurate and nice information. But as I said, if his book contains the narrative of Barnabas, it is the book of hadith. Just like Matthew, Bukhari or John.

But if it contains the words of God directly like the Qur'an, it is the Gospel.
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 03:51 PM   #1373
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A pocket paradise between the sewage treatment plant and the railroad
Posts: 15,039
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"The gospel claims that Christ was neither crucified nor was he God’s son. Instead, it says he was just a prophet. The book also refers to Apostle Paul as “The Impostor” and further claims that Christ ascended back to heaven alive, with Judas Iscariot being crucified in his place.

Then it contains the foulest of heresy and was obviously written by Satan.
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 04:23 PM   #1374
winter salt
Critical Thinker
 
winter salt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 284
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.


Mod WarningTwo points:
  • The language of this forum is English, please do not post substantially in other languages.
  • Do not insult other members, regardless of the language used.
Posted By:zooterkin

Last edited by zooterkin; 19th July 2019 at 05:57 AM.
winter salt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 04:43 PM   #1375
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 5,190
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"The gospel claims that Christ was neither crucified nor was he God’s son. Instead, it says he was just a prophet. The book also refers to Apostle Paul as “The Impostor” and further claims that Christ ascended back to heaven alive, with Judas Iscariot being crucified in his place."

They are accurate and nice information. But as I said, if his book contains the narrative of Barnabas, it is the book of hadith. Just like Matthew, Bukhari or John.

But if it contains the words of God directly like the Qur'an, it is the Gospel.

Better than the Quran perhaps because it is written in gold! What better sign of "The finger of God" could you wish for. And after all it has been examined by experts and religious bodies no less. No wonder The Pope is looking at the situations vacant section of the paper.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 05:52 PM   #1376
Scorpion
Graduate Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,615
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post

if it contains the words of God directly like the Qur'an, it is the Gospel.
The Quran cannot possibly be the words of any kind of being worth calling God.

It is a mumbling, repetitive, evil load of trash.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 07:25 PM   #1377
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,279
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
They are accurate and nice information. But as I said, if his book contains the narrative of Barnabas, it is the book of hadith. Just like Matthew, Bukhari or John.
It would be difficult to decide where to begin describing all the errors and misconceptions in this paragraph. You have absolutely no clue when it comes to religions that are not your own, and only a slightly clue about your own religion.

Quote:
But if it contains the words of God directly like the Qur'an, it is the Gospel.
No. There is no evident god and therefore there is no book that is the word of that supposed god. I can't imagine what you think you can accomplish by continuing to witness ignorantly to atheists.
JayUtah is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 07:31 PM   #1378
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,279
Originally Posted by Earthborn View Post
It could be an interesting find, but unfortunately none of the "experts and religious bodies" that have studied the thing are named in the article
Oh, Christian scholars are well acquainted with the Gospel of Barnabas. They are well acquainted with various apocryphal accounts of Jesus' life and ministry, including the ones claiming Jesus never died but was instead rescued by his disciples from the cross, nursed back to health, and pawned off as "resurrected." None of this is new to anyone who has made a serious academic study of the history of Christianity and its various early writings.

But of course we live in the era of clickbait. Need some clicks? Just pull up some fringe tidbit of Christian history and claim that the Vatican has its cassocks in a twist over it. Since Emre has no working understanding of comparative religion, he's unable to tell clickbait from actual Christian research. He's basically Islamic Bubba.
JayUtah is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 07:42 PM   #1379
GDon
Graduate Poster
 
GDon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,089
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"Vatican In Shock As 1,500-Year-Old Bible Claims Jesus Wasn’t Crucified"

http://allchristiannews.com/vatican-...f1eRc.facebook
From the link:
There is a clique that believes that, during the Council of Nicea, the Catholic Church picked the canonical gospel books such as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John
From the Wiki article on the Council of Nicea, under "Misconceptions":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_...Misconceptions
There is no record of any discussion of the biblical canon at the council.[78]...

The main source of the idea that the Bible was created at the Council of Nicaea seems to be Voltaire, who popularised a story that the canon was determined by placing all the competing books on an altar during the Council and then keeping the ones that did not fall off. The original source of this "fictitious anecdote" is the Synodicon Vetus,[81] a pseudo-historical account of early Church councils from AD 887
Some early Christians believed that Jesus couldn't have been crucified since a perfect being couldn't suffer, thus someone else was crucified in his stead. So, if the Bible from that link exists at all, it would seem to be from one of those early sects.

Last edited by GDon; 13th July 2019 at 07:52 PM.
GDon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 07:56 PM   #1380
Little 10 Toes
Graduate Poster
 
Little 10 Toes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,971
Anyone see the date of the article?
Little 10 Toes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 08:27 PM   #1381
Little 10 Toes
Graduate Poster
 
Little 10 Toes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,971
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
[Quran 39.5] [Allah] Created the heavens and the Earth in truth. He overlaps [Yukawer in Arabic يُكَوِّرُ] the night over the day and overlaps [Yukawer يُكَوِّرُ] the day over the night, and enslaved the sun and the moon. ALL MOVE (Kullon Yajree كل يجري) to a prerecorded destiny. Is He not the Exalted, the Forgiver?

http://www.miracles-of-quran.com/earth.htm
Hey, doesn't that verse prove that the Quran's god, Allah, is weak? He can enslave the Sun and Moon, but not the Earth?

Hey, doesn't that verse prove that the Quran is wrong? It mentions that all move, but doesn't mention that the Earth moves.
Little 10 Toes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th July 2019, 07:04 AM   #1382
Apathia
Philosopher
 
Apathia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 5,172
I have hadith enough!

Yes, I've had enough of "My holy book is the true revelation from God, and yours is not." These claims are maintained by poor reading comprehension and a persistent belief that religion is more important that human life and sanity.
__________________
"At the Supreme Court level where we work, 90 percent of any decision is emotional. The rational part of us supplies the reasons for supporting our predilections."
Justice William O. Douglas

"Humans aren't rational creatures but rationalizing creatures."
Author Unknown
Apathia is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th July 2019, 08:02 AM   #1383
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 736
"Reap what you sow?

Contradiction; Some sow wheat but reap thorns. (Jeremiah 12:13) Vs Some sow but will not reap anything. (Micah 6:15) Vs Some reap without sowing. (Matthew 25:26, Luke 19:22) Vs A man reaps what he sows. (2 Corinthians 9:6, Galatians 6:7)

Excuse; The first are materialistic sowing, thus uneven, the last is afterlife spiritual sowing, thus even.

Rebuttal: This would be acceptable albeit for the passage stating that the righteous reap what they sow in this life, hence materialistic terms;

“Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.” (Proverbs 11:31) because (Matthew 25:26, Luke 19:22) speaks of the wicked materialistically getting more than the righteous.

Therefore, even if it is in materialistic terms, it is in contradiction to (Proverbs 11:31)

Correction: The Quran is very clear that humans get what they deserve. In an accountable fashion, God is Fair and Bountiful. People are punished for the bad and greatly rewarded for the good:

“Surely Allah does not do injustice to the weight of an atom, and if it is a good deed He multiplies it and gives from Himself a great reward.” (Quran 4:40)"

http://islamicbook.com/free/200-ways...cts-the-bible/
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th July 2019, 08:54 AM   #1384
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,279
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Since you never discuss what you crib from these Islam fanboy sites, can we conclude you're just deliberately spamming the forum? Neither you nor any of the authors you quote manages to interpret the Bible the way believing Christians do. Your my-holy-book-is-better-than-your-holy-book argument boils down to a bunch of mistakes that make you look very silly.
JayUtah is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th July 2019, 01:56 PM   #1385
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,703
Ninja'd by JU.

I was going to say that Emre has clearly given up any pretense of discussion and is now just spamming. Isn't there a forum rule against that?
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th July 2019, 04:48 PM   #1386
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,703
Emre's magical fairy-tale is different from your magical fairy-tale. Therefore Allah exists.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 08:33 AM   #1387
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 8,812
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
No. To this audience they are all equally superstitious. And no one cares to hear you evangelize your peculiar brand of Islam. You aren't intellectually capable of actually discussing these issues in a comparative religion sort of way, which is the only real interest this forum has.



And if you knew anything about early Christian scripture, you'd know there is a lot of apocryphal stuff that Christians rightly reject as, well, apocryphal. Stop getting your information about other religions from click bait.
As I understand it, when Christianity was still an illegal, suppressed religion in the Roman empire, there were hundreds of sects of Christianity, each with their own scripture, including their own gospels. Then the emperor Constantine was converted to one of those sects, which became the established religion of the Roman empire and was the direct ancestor of the Eastern Orhodox and Roman Catholic denominations of Christianity, and, indirectly, most other modern denominations of Christianity. I had never before heard of this particular gospel, but there are many others, such as the Gospel according to Thomas, and, IIRC, one purportedly by Mary Magdalene.
CORed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 08:40 AM   #1388
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,636
Unless you got something written by God within the last year or so, I have to assume it is no longer current and should therefore be disregarded.
Let me know when The Lord releases an official update.
__________________
Careful! That tree's bark is worse than its bite.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 08:55 AM   #1389
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 82,848
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
As you know, the only true holy book we have is the Qur'an.
Based on your previous attempts to prove that true, I'd say that no, we don't know this at all.

Blame it all on yourself.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 09:39 AM   #1390
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,198
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Snipped propaganda

As you know, the only true holy book we have is the Qur'an.[/b]

Snipped more propaganda

.
A book of fairy tales is a book of fairy tales.

Glomming on to one particular fairy tale doesn't make it true.

Asserting that your fairy tale is better than the other guys fairy tale isn't worth much
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 09:59 AM   #1391
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,279
Originally Posted by CORed View Post
As I understand it, when Christianity was still an illegal, suppressed religion in the Roman empire, there were hundreds of sects of Christianity, each with their own scripture, including their own gospels.
Yes, but it's even more nebulous than that. It wasn't clear early on that Christianity needed a canon. It wasn't clear that the letters being circulated by Paul et al. should play that role. The gospels, of course, came much later than the epistles, and the epistles came much later than the word of mouth. You're quite correct in noting that the decision to canonize certain works is most traceable to Constantine.

Emre is trying to cram Christianity in the canonical and exegetical pattern of Islam, following the notion of inherent, ab initio canon and then relevant commentaries and exegeses. Christians today don't consider the apocryphal (small a) works to be hadith or commentary. They don't consider them at all.
JayUtah is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 10:18 AM   #1392
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,732
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Ninja'd by JU.

I was going to say that Emre has clearly given up any pretense of discussion and is now just spamming. Isn't there a forum rule against that?
I'm beginning to wonder...
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 10:21 AM   #1393
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,732
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
<Spam Snipped>
Oh look, more spam.

Emre_1974tr, you really should try reading the Koran yourself:

Quote:
2:6 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.
2:7 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.
Why are you posting here again?
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!

Last edited by halleyscomet; 15th July 2019 at 10:23 AM.
halleyscomet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th July 2019, 10:28 AM   #1394
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,732
The Koran claims bees eat fruit to make honey and that the resulting honey "is healing for mankind"

Quote:
16:68 And thy Lord inspired the bee, saying: Choose thou habitations in the hills and in the trees and in that which they thatch;
16:69 Then eat of all fruits, and follow the ways of thy Lord, made smooth (for thee). There cometh forth from their bellies a drink divers of hues, wherein is healing for mankind. Lo! herein is indeed a portent for people who reflect.
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2019, 06:58 AM   #1395
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 736
All pagans think they're monotheistic. The demon's trap is always the same:

Hindus "333 in 1."

Christians "3 in 1".

Pantheists "everything in 1"

New Agers "we are in 1"
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2019, 07:01 AM   #1396
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,279
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
All pagans think they're monotheistic.
No. You don't understand what "pagain" means. To you it's just an insult. To everyone else it means a specific thing that has nothing to do with what you're trying to foist.

Further, you seem to have no interest in actually discussing the points you bring up. You're just spam at this point. Noise. You have no clue what other religions believe or do, and you're just evangelizing your particular form of Islam with your fingers stuck in your ears. Can you justify why you deserve any further attention from anyone on this forum?
JayUtah is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2019, 07:08 AM   #1397
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 736
The Qur'an says that people will believe always make up partners.

12:106 Most of them will not acknowledge God without setting up partners.

16:3 He has created the heavens and the earth with the truth. Be He exalted above the partners they set up.

40:73 Then it will be said to them: "Where are those that you have set up as partners"
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2019, 07:23 AM   #1398
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,198
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The Qur'an says that people will believe always make up partners.

12:106 Most of them will not acknowledge God without setting up partners.

16:3 He has created the heavens and the earth with the truth. Be He exalted above the partners they set up.

40:73 Then it will be said to them: "Where are those that you have set up as partners"
Muhammad had fleas in his beard.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2019, 08:48 AM   #1399
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,732
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
All pagans think they're monotheistic.
That is a bald faced lie. You are lying about other religions.

__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2019, 08:50 AM   #1400
halleyscomet
Philosopher
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,732
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
No. You don't understand what "pagain" means. To you it's just an insult. To everyone else it means a specific thing that has nothing to do with what you're trying to foist.

Further, you seem to have no interest in actually discussing the points you bring up. You're just spam at this point. Noise. You have no clue what other religions believe or do, and you're just evangelizing your particular form of Islam with your fingers stuck in your ears. Can you justify why you deserve any further attention from anyone on this forum?
I saw this image and it reminded me of Emre_1974tr's lies and fabrications about other religions.

__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:14 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.