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Tags telepathy , telepathy test

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Old 18th October 2016, 11:35 AM   #241
Giordano
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As has been noted multiple times before, the impact of someone cheating, randomly guessing, or otherwise improperly distorting the results, decreases dramatically with increases in the size of the possible answer choices. If there are only 4 possible choices and only #2 is correct, then a cheater might receive the "correct" answer #2, but deliberately pick #4 to throw off the test and it might affect the interpretation of the test. But if there are 1000 possible choices (1 to 1000, the first 1000 word entries in the Webster dictionary, etc.) then a cheater's lies would be diffused among the 999 "wrong" answers and disappear into the statistical background. And this would still require Michel H to only try to broadcast the one "correct"answer. Thus no need to interpret the reliability of the answer/ poster.

And of course the larger the list of possible answer the stronger the statistics if the correct answer does predominate in the posters' responses.

Michel H must know this, but choses not to accept it. But I am certain that even with a 1000 possible choices, the "right" form of retrospective analysis could turn any set of answers into proof of telepathy.
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Old 18th October 2016, 12:17 PM   #242
Gulliver Foyle
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Perhaps I'm going about this the wrong way, These tests are designed to be way too fair.
What is needed is a totally lopsided test for Michel.

OK Michel I am think of one of these TWO numbers, Try to guess which one I have picked.


Is it:

A: 1


or

B: >>2<<
I'm guessing you were thinking of π
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Old 18th October 2016, 01:33 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Great. Now you are claiming that it works better if you constrain the answers and outright cheat.

Make it easier. Give everyone only one option on your next test. I'm sure your results will be amazing, not.
He did. He had a test where he projected one of four numbers. 1,2,3,4.


He still failed, Then with no malice or trickery I gave him a 50-50 shot at picking the number I was thinking of; 1 or 2 and he still failed.

He also failed a different test after claiming he could detect lies.


Yet he'll do this test again and someone will be foolish enough to answer and he'll bend and stretch in way that would humble Mr.Fantastic to make it fit.
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Old 18th October 2016, 01:34 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
I'm guessing you were thinking of π
Close, π^2
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Old 18th October 2016, 01:45 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
There are lots of variable currents in the brain, and we know from physics that variable currents do generate electromagnetic waves, so assuming that telepathy does exist is a natural position from a physicist's point of view. If telepathy did not exist, this would mean that mother Nature would have missed an opportunity, I don't think (though I am not a biologist) she often does that.

One may perhaps speculate that the real reason why many of you on this forum seem to be blocked or stuck on the very rigid position that telepathy does not exist (?) is because these persons have what might perhaps be termed a "criminal agenda", which has everything to do with crime, and very little to do with rationality. I have already tried to explain on this forum how I seem to be able to communicate telepathically with animals (cats, dogs, birds) near my building, but I am not sure you paid any attention. And this phenomenon is very easy to verify: for example, when a dog is barking, I talk to him/her from inside my apartment with a weak voice (so he/she cannot hear me normally, sensorially), and I study whether there is a reaction, a change (often there is).
Have you tried not talking to the dog? Then you could see whether the reaction or change has anything to do with you.
With any belief always try to prove its wrong before you settle with it.

When dogs bark it's for a reason, for example my dog will bark when it is outside and wants me to let it in, when i let it in it stops barking.

Last edited by p0lka; 18th October 2016 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 18th October 2016, 04:39 PM   #246
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Quote:
I also suspect that fromdownunder may have been infuenced by the "an" of "France" when he posted his mysterious text:
Michel, This is a huge stretch even for you. My text was not mysterious, but quite clear. I was sorting stamps and happened to be up to Poland.

In a thread about picking a country name, and with me moving between my stamps and the internet that day, of course Poland was on my mind when I responded. Here is the work I did that day:







It was playful sarcasm in response to your stupid poll. (You may have heard the word sarcasm once or twice, but obviously still don't actually understand it.

I hate to think what would you would have thought if I had been sorting Falkland Islands. Two "an"'s and it starts with an F. You would have probably had an orgasm!

Let's see what I could have been sorting, if I was still on "A". I won't do the whole alphabet of stamp issuing entities, but a list of some of the "A"s may be food for thought, even for you.

Aegean Islands
Afghanistan
Ajman
Aland Islands
Albania
Alexandretta
Alexandria
Andorra
Angola
Angora
Angra
Anguilla
An
jouan
Ankara
Annam and Tongking
Antigua
Antioquia
Australia (Queensland)
Australia (Tasmania)
Australian Antarctic Territory
Austrian Italy
Austran Levant (Hey - two for one)
Austro-Hungarian Military Post
AVIANCA
Azerbaijan

Note that some of these are anglicised versions of the local name, as indeed is Poland.I suppose I should have said Polska!

Norm
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Old 20th October 2016, 04:09 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
<snipping the schizophrenia>
So fromdownunder was thinking of the word France which you were broadcasting and you know this because Poland which he said he wast thinking of contains an "an" just like France.

Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove a breach of rule 12
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Old 20th October 2016, 04:16 PM   #248
Gulliver Foyle
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Close, π^2
More pi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FdbqXZukhg
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Old 20th October 2016, 05:34 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
So fromdownunder was thinking of the word France which you were broadcasting and you know this because Poland which he said he wast thinking of contains an "an" just like France.
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove a breach of rule 12.
... and thus requires help - ridicule of an ideal is fine, of a person not so, since any said person cannot be ideal.

If that said person suffers from a belief in an ideal, even if it is wrong (the ideal), that person is not guilty of belief but of lack of sceptical thinking.

Here, we may help.
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Old 20th October 2016, 06:08 PM   #250
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Let me try again.

1) Thought broadcasting - belief everybody can here one's thought.
2) Thought insertion - belief that somebody is inserting thoughts in one's brain.
3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia.

Quote:
fromdownunder was thinking of the word France which you were broadcasting and you know this because Poland which he said he was thinking of contains an "an" just like France.
A German scientist named Klaus Conrad coined apophanie (from the Greek apo, away, and phaenein, to show) in 1958. He was describing the acute stage of schizophrenia, during which unrelated details seem saturated in connections and meaning. Unlike an epiphany—a true intuition of the world’s interconnectedness—an apophany is a false realization.

As I said, I suffer from schizophrenia and went through went through the same things. Once I accepted that I am schizophrenic, I was able to control those thoughts.

Michael, there is nothing to be ashamed of. Schiz is an illness like any other illness. It of no fault of yours if you suffer the illness. What is important is to control it, if not get rid of it all together. You really have to see a doctor or at least take the medications your doctors prescribed.
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Old 21st October 2016, 04:20 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by jmontecillo01 View Post
Let me try again.

1) Thought broadcasting - belief everybody can here one's thought.
2) Thought insertion - belief that somebody is inserting thoughts in one's brain.
3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia.



A German scientist named Klaus Conrad coined apophanie (from the Greek apo, away, and phaenein, to show) in 1958. He was describing the acute stage of schizophrenia, during which unrelated details seem saturated in connections and meaning. Unlike an epiphany—a true intuition of the world’s interconnectedness—an apophany is a false realization.

As I said, I suffer from schizophrenia and went through went through the same things. Once I accepted that I am schizophrenic, I was able to control those thoughts.

Michael, there is nothing to be ashamed of. Schiz is an illness like any other illness. It of no fault of yours if you suffer the illness. What is important is to control it, if not get rid of it all together. You really have to see a doctor or at least take the medications your doctors prescribed.
Great post, jmontecillo01. I hadn't heard of apophenia before and that's really interesting.
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Old 21st October 2016, 05:01 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
There are lots of variable currents in the brain, and we know from physics that variable currents do generate electromagnetic waves, so assuming that telepathy does exist is a natural position from a physicist's point of view. If telepathy did not exist, this would mean that mother Nature would have missed an opportunity, I don't think (though I am not a biologist) she often does that.
Evolution has produced some animals which can sense electrical activity in other animals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroreception You're postulating something much stranger. What you are suggesting is more analogous to noting that a crowd in a football stadium emits a lot of noise and proposing that it might be possible to hear what people in that stadium are talking about while you're standing in the crowd in an entirely different football stadium. That is not a natural position from any point of view.

Quote:
One may perhaps speculate that the real reason why many of you on this forum seem to be blocked or stuck on the very rigid position that telepathy does not exist (?) is because these persons have what might perhaps be termed a "criminal agenda", which has everything to do with crime, and very little to do with rationality.
I sympathise with your frustration but please consider what the proposed 'criminal agenda' might be. You seem to be suggesting a planet-wide conspiracy where the whole human race knows that you are telepathic and yet every single human being except you is somehow involved in a vast but seemingly pointless conspiracy where everyone pretends they can't hear you. When I put it like that, it's clearly absurd, don't you think so? People on this forum are convinced that telepathy isn't real because the evidence supporting that view is highly convincing.

Consider it from our point of view: It's said that believing one's thoughts are broadcast is a relatively common symptom of a moderately common disorder. There must be thousands, maybe millions, of people worldwide who are convinced that their thoughts are being broadcast. But we can't hear them, and I dare say that you can't hear them either. It must be very frustrating for them too, but we (and you) are not conspiring to lie to them. We really can't hear them. They're not broadcasting, they're just really, really convinced they are because of an illness. Can you not conceive of the possibility that you might be in the same position too?

Quote:
I have already tried to explain on this forum how I seem to be able to communicate telepathically with animals (cats, dogs, birds) near my building, but I am not sure you paid any attention. And this phenomenon is very easy to verify: for example, when a dog is barking, I talk to him/her from inside my apartment with a weak voice (so he/she cannot hear me normally, sensorially), and I study whether there is a reaction, a change (often there is).
I remember your talking about that, but there really wasn't much one could usefully say about it. I'm sure that you are quite capable of fooling yourself into imagining that whatever an animal does is its reaction to some unheard thing you said or thought, in much the same way you decided there was a meaningful connection between the responses 'Canada' and 'France'.

If a person with schizophrenia told you all this same stuff and insisted you could hear their thoughts (which of course you cannot) what would you think? What would you tell them?
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Old 21st October 2016, 08:18 AM   #253
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Is it worth mentioning that a few years back there was a member called golphy or golfy? He had been diagnosed with schizophrenia but disagreed with the diagnosis. He believed that everybody in the world could hear his thoughts and that anybody who said they couldn't was lying.

The similarities are striking.
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Old 21st October 2016, 08:50 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Is it worth mentioning that a few years back there was a member called golphy or golfy? He had been diagnosed with schizophrenia but disagreed with the diagnosis. He believed that everybody in the world could hear his thoughts and that anybody who said they couldn't was lying.

The similarities are striking.

golfy

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=112896
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Old 21st October 2016, 11:25 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by AdMan View Post
Thanks. Starting to read back through that thread, and post #7 involves golfy proposing a protocol in which he would write down 10 words and concentrate on one, attempting to transmit it to someone else.

The key difference appears to be that golfy was interested in working out a protocol by which he could actually be tested (although I've not yet re-read the thread far enough to see whether he ducks and dives anything which could actually work), whereas Michael doesn't seem interested in doing any tests other than the ones in this thread.
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Old 22nd October 2016, 12:46 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Thanks. Starting to read back through that thread, and post #7 involves golfy proposing a protocol in which he would write down 10 words and concentrate on one, attempting to transmit it to someone else.

The key difference appears to be that golfy was interested in working out a protocol by which he could actually be tested (although I've not yet re-read the thread far enough to see whether he ducks and dives anything which could actually work), whereas Michael doesn't seem interested in doing any tests other than the ones in this thread.

Yeah, golfy wanted to win the JREF Million Dollar Challenge so he was trying to come up with an acceptable protocol, which would have involved a lot more than a test on an internet discussion board.

What I also find interesting is that, like Michael, golfy also believed that people were lying when they said they couldn't hear his thoughts, and his answer to that was to use a polygraph ("lie detector") in the test. Michael just adds his own subjective interpretation of how credible each answer is, but it's the same idea. At least golfy was trying to be more objective.
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Old 27th October 2016, 04:45 PM   #257
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Solution to Michel H's test problem

Michel H has relocated his experiment to the Skeptic Society forum.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopi...542538#p542205

SKEPP is the Belgium Skeptic Society that offers a 25,000 Euro prize for proof of telepathy.
http://skepp.be/en/prijzen

1) Michel H claims other people can read his thoughts.
2) Michel H lives in Brussels.
3) Michael H informed us that he cannot apply for the SKEPP test as he does not have a credible and honest partner.
4) Michel H claims the results he receives from skeptic forum member are not credible and thus he can dismiss the answers.


The Solution
Michel H writes down his phone number in Brussels and the message "All telepathic people contact me on this phone number" on a piece of paper.

Michel H reads this message, in his mind, over and over and over again, for three hours every day and repeats this every day.

If Michel's claim is correct a real honest telepathic person will ring him up and together, they will apply to collect the 25,000 Euros.

If Michel's claim is incorrect, then no one will ring him up.

Problem Solved
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Old 28th October 2016, 01:28 AM   #258
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So every telemarketer in Belgium will suddenly be telepathic?
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Old 28th October 2016, 03:24 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by AdMan View Post
Yeah, golfy wanted to win the JREF Million Dollar Challenge so he was trying to come up with an acceptable protocol, which would have involved a lot more than a test on an internet discussion board.

What I also find interesting is that, like Michael, golfy also believed that people were lying when they said they couldn't hear his thoughts, and his answer to that was to use a polygraph ("lie detector") in the test. Michael just adds his own subjective interpretation of how credible each answer is, but it's the same idea. At least golfy was trying to be more objective.
Giving the paradoxically situation where the receiver's lies are being revealed by a lie detector operator who is themselves (by the senders belief) receiving the word and lying about it but still is expected to render an accurate test...
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Old 28th October 2016, 03:35 AM   #260
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I'm somewhat puzzled as to why one would bother with the million dollar challenge, much less a smaller prize when one could realistically ask approximately six billion dollars a year to repeat the phrase "I really fancy a Big Mac and a Coke right now" a couple of hundred times a day.
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Old 28th October 2016, 03:39 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
I'm somewhat puzzled as to why one would bother with the million dollar challenge, much less a smaller prize when one could realistically ask approximately six billion dollars a year to repeat the phrase "I really fancy a Big Mac and a Coke right now" a couple of hundred times a day.
No point being rich when every crook in the world knows your bank password.
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Old 28th October 2016, 04:01 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
No point being rich when every crook in the world knows your bank password.
But no one could impersonate you. Anyway some of the newly redundant advertising executives can be tasked with making your transactions for you so you don't need to know your password.
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Old 28th October 2016, 06:11 PM   #263
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
So every telemarketer in Belgium will suddenly be telepathic?
That confused me for a moment until I got the joke. Well done.
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Old 1st November 2016, 04:57 PM   #264
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I thought more about this, simply as an exercise in how to allow Michel Hanck to undertake the SKEPP 25,000 Euro paranormal challenge, in his home country of Belgium, for the least cost.

Originally Posted by Michel H
I have already tried to explain on this forum how I seem to be able to communicate telepathically with animals (cats, dogs, birds) near my building, And this phenomenon is very easy to verify: for example, when a dog is barking, I talk to him/her from inside my apartment with a weak voice (so he/she cannot hear me normally, sensorially), and I study whether there is a reaction, a change (often there is).
A) Michel H can make animals do things.
B) Michel H will not undertake the test as he cannot find a credible human partner.


Here is a simple experiment that satisfies Michel's dilemma. A random exit is chosen and Michel makes the mouse walk through that exit. We repeat this over and over again until statistically significant results can be assessed.
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Old 1st November 2016, 05:59 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
I thought more about this, simply as an exercise in how to allow Michel Hanck to undertake the SKEPP 25,000 Euro paranormal challenge, in his home country of Belgium, for the least cost.



A) Michel H can make animals do things.
B) Michel H will not undertake the test as he cannot find a credible human partner.


Here is a simple experiment that satisfies Michel's dilemma. A random exit is chosen and Michel makes the mouse walk through that exit. We repeat this over and over again until statistically significant results can be assessed.
Not quite; He'd toss out the failed results and only focus on the hits.

He did this with his first test and all further tests with increasing levels of mental gymnastics.
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Old 1st November 2016, 07:57 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Here is a simple experiment that satisfies Michel's dilemma. A random exit is chosen and Michel makes the mouse walk through that exit. We repeat this over and over again until statistically significant results can be assessed.
You've failed to account for the possibility of a criminal conspiracy amongst mice to deliberately discredit Michel's claim to be telepathic.

Yes, he'd claim that. You know he would.

Dave
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Old 1st November 2016, 08:59 PM   #267
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers
You've failed to account for the possibility of a criminal conspiracy amongst mice to deliberately discredit Michel's claim to be telepathic.

Yes, he'd claim that. You know he would.

Dave
I realise that. My prime aim was to stop him posting his circular arguments on yet another skeptic forum by setting out simple experiments.

On the other hand, I am somewhat interested to hear if he thinks there are "credible mice" and "non credible mice" and how he justifies throwing out the results from "non credible mice".

I love this sort of weirdness.
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Old 2nd November 2016, 01:17 PM   #268
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There are credible dormice. They might be ideal.



Oh. No. Wait: That's edible dormice.
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Old 16th November 2016, 11:42 AM   #269
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A simple telepathy experiment: which word did I write?

I recently wrote one of the four words: "automobile", "boat", "plane", and "submarine" on my paper, and I surrounded it with a rough ellipse.

I ask you to write it here (if you think you know it, even with a doubt).

Also, a comment might be useful. You may say, for example, how confident you are in your choice.

Thank you for participating.

Notes:
1) A SHA-512 hash of a complicated sentence containing the selected word is: FE200D91BC7B83C5A638F5B9CD9F4F1FD8A66A5C5A8B7050D1 8316E56E881E5CA4FBB4D0524F38DA295CAAF1AD8136AECE11 A07C204EC6147C3D628F2FCC3A80
2) Yeggster has already kindly given an answer:
Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
I have circled an automobile, that can fly as areoplane, float on water like a boat, and also submerge in open water, to explore the ocean floor!!
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Old 16th November 2016, 12:36 PM   #270
fagin
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My deja vu has deja vu.
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Old 16th November 2016, 02:44 PM   #271
Dave Rogers
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The Russians tried to build a submersible seaplane around the time of WW2. If it had been a submersible amphibian plane it would have ticked all four boxes.

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Old 16th November 2016, 04:40 PM   #272
fromdownunder
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Is it February 2 already?

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Old 17th November 2016, 05:36 AM   #273
Squeegee Beckenheim
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You should write down and circle your phone number while thinking of it. If you're genuinely telepathic, then anybody who genuinely can hear you and isn't wasting your time or being sarcastic will be able to contact you directly. Then you'll be able to apply for - and win - any number of sceptic challenges.
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Old 17th November 2016, 06:31 AM   #274
Greebo
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
You should write down and circle your phone number while thinking of it. If you're genuinely telepathic, then anybody who genuinely can hear you and isn't wasting your time or being sarcastic will be able to contact you directly. Then you'll be able to apply for - and win - any number of sceptic challenges.
True, also if telepathy did exist the world would be very noisy with hearing everyones thoughts. I'm glad it doesn't.
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Old 17th November 2016, 12:04 PM   #275
Donn
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Methinks telepathy may win by relentless repetition.
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Old 18th November 2016, 09:42 AM   #276
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Oddly enough, I thought of Kate Upton riding a rhombus shaped skateboard. Do I score any points?
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Old 18th November 2016, 03:25 PM   #277
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
Oddly enough, I thought of Kate Upton riding a rhombus shaped skateboard. Do I score any points?
Well, if your answer can be vaguely fitted to one of the answers then the round peg will be relentlessly hammered into the square hole and considered a hit. If not you will be declared insincere and discarded. The only way that ANYONE walks away from this game with any honour is by refusing to play, as others have said it is better not to encourage this delusion.

(Nb. I was was going to give an example of how your obviously joke answer could be fitted to one of the options but I don't want to risk being coincidentally right).
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Old 18th November 2016, 03:55 PM   #278
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hedgehog.
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Old 18th November 2016, 04:10 PM   #279
fagin
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
hedgehog.
Spiny Norman?
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Old 18th November 2016, 06:29 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
[snip] Norman?
Hey, that's my given name. Don't use it too often - you will wear it out.

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