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Old 31st March 2021, 02:14 PM   #761
Filippo Lippi
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It really is easy to learn one pedal driving. I switched it on pulling out of the showroom and haven't switched it off for three years. My car doesn't stop abruptly in one pedal driving, it's more gradual

Hill starts? What are they? I come to a stop on a hill by lifting my foot off the accelerator (applying the brakes if required) and press the accelerator to start again, regardless of incline.
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Old 31st March 2021, 02:33 PM   #762
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
It really is easy to learn one pedal driving. I switched it on pulling out of the showroom and haven't switched it off for three years. My car doesn't stop abruptly in one pedal driving, it's more gradual

Hill starts? What are they? I come to a stop on a hill by lifting my foot off the accelerator (applying the brakes if required) and press the accelerator to start again, regardless of incline.
How doe it know if you want to accelerate or stop?
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Old 31st March 2021, 03:07 PM   #763
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
It really is easy to learn one pedal driving. I switched it on pulling out of the showroom and haven't switched it off for three years. My car doesn't stop abruptly in one pedal driving, it's more gradual

Hill starts? What are they? I come to a stop on a hill by lifting my foot off the accelerator (applying the brakes if required) and press the accelerator to start again, regardless of incline.
It's that part that seems to be lacking in a one pedal design, unless I'm misunderstanding how that one pedal works. And if your car does not stop abruptly, how do you make a panic stop?

Mind you, I rarely use the brake with a good automatic transmission, and my car has a very effective hill holder. Just stop, and the brake engages, push accelerator and it comes off, no hassle. But I still kind of need that brake pedal sometimes.
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Old 31st March 2021, 03:21 PM   #764
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
It's that part that seems to be lacking in a one pedal design, unless I'm misunderstanding how that one pedal works. And if your car does not stop abruptly, how do you make a panic stop?

Mind you, I rarely use the brake with a good automatic transmission, and my car has a very effective hill holder. Just stop, and the brake engages, push accelerator and it comes off, no hassle. But I still kind of need that brake pedal sometimes.
Since I've had mine, I haven't made any panic stops, however the vehicle has made them twice!

Once because a driver lost control in the left lane and spun end for end through all the traffic ending up facing me in my lane. (I think he was trying to cut off the driver in the centre lane but can't be sure.)

Once because a 'dust devil' crossed the road in front of me and the car's sensor interpreted it as a solid object.

But yes, the brake pedal still exists in my car, it's just very rare that I need to use it.
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Old 31st March 2021, 05:01 PM   #765
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Does it come with the deep v-neck t-shirts?
No, but it does make the sound "aaayyyyyy" when you start it up.
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Old 31st March 2021, 06:06 PM   #766
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I suspect that would require a very steep relearning for those accustomed to taking a foot off the gas to coast down gradually. Presumably with one pedal if you back off too fast the car will screech to a halt. If not, then you'd better also have a brake pedal anyway, even if the brake pedal, instead of activating friction pads, increases the level of regenerative braking to the max. Not to mention, jockeying the single pedal for a hill start could be pretty strange.
It takes almost no time to get used to one-pedal driving and once you have experienced it, you will probably prefer it. It just feels more natural.

If you take your foot off the accelerator pedal, the car does not screech to a halt. It just slows down. If you need to stop quickly, you press the brake pedal. (BTW, if the car is almost fully charged, regenerative braking cannot be used so the car will use the brakes to slow when you back off on the accelerator. It is programmed so it reacts the same as when it uses regenerative braking.)

Starting and stopping on hills is much easier than in a traditional car. Once the car stops, it stays stopped until you tell it to go.

It is a fly-by-wire system. Instead of you having to figure out how to command the car to do what you want, you just tell it what you want it to do.

Last edited by jadebox; 31st March 2021 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 31st March 2021, 06:57 PM   #767
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Originally Posted by jadebox View Post
...one-pedal driving...
Originally Posted by jadebox View Post
If you take your foot off the accelerator pedal, the car does not screech to a halt. It just slows down. If you need to stop quickly, you press the brake pedal.
2=1
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Old 31st March 2021, 07:45 PM   #768
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
.... skeuomorphic...,
[Totally on topic]
Had to look that one up. I gotta ask, Eddie, is "skeuomorphic" in your regular vocabulary or did you pull a fast one on us?
[/Totally on topic]
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Old 31st March 2021, 07:47 PM   #769
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
The Tesla Model 3 is close to that. Turn signals are on a stalk. <snip>
In this context what is a "stalk"?
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Old 31st March 2021, 07:59 PM   #770
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A stick or wand, protruding from the steering column
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Old 31st March 2021, 11:30 PM   #771
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Setting the car in one-pedal mode does not mean that I have to take the brake pedal out of the foot-well, or it retracts into the dash-board. The brake pedal still works and it works, mostly, by applying the brakes conventionally. Depending upon how hard you press the brake pedal, or how fast you're going, or how full you're battery is, the car will decide the proportion of regen to conventional braking to apply
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Old 1st April 2021, 04:22 AM   #772
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I'm getting used to a new feature called "adaptive cruise control" that caps your speed at the MPH you set, but besides that will match the car in front of you to an appropriate distance (which is also adjustible, I have it set on max). As a result, about 80% of my braking is done by the car itself.

The times I most often wind up using the brake pedal is for turns, or lane changes where I'm fading back behind a car instead of passing them. One exception: stoplights. If there's a car in front of me as I approach, it handles it just fine. In fact, unless I come to a complete halt it even resumes acceleration. However, if I approach a line of already-stopped cars it seems to brake too late, at least too late for my comfort, so I find myself manually braking then.
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Old 1st April 2021, 05:12 AM   #773
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
2=1
It is called one-pedal driving because most of the time you use just one pedal. No one said there was no brake pedal.

Last edited by jadebox; 1st April 2021 at 05:16 AM.
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Old 1st April 2021, 06:24 AM   #774
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Originally Posted by jadebox View Post
It takes almost no time to get used to one-pedal driving and once you have experienced it, you will probably prefer it. It just feels more natural.

If you take your foot off the accelerator pedal, the car does not screech to a halt. It just slows down. If you need to stop quickly, you press the brake pedal. (BTW, if the car is almost fully charged, regenerative braking cannot be used so the car will use the brakes to slow when you back off on the accelerator. It is programmed so it reacts the same as when it uses regenerative braking.)

Starting and stopping on hills is much easier than in a traditional car. Once the car stops, it stays stopped until you tell it to go.

It is a fly-by-wire system. Instead of you having to figure out how to command the car to do what you want, you just tell it what you want it to do.
So by one pedal driving, you don't mean being supplied with only one pedal, so not all that different from driving a vehicle with good engine braking and a hill holder.

It sounds pretty benign, but I don't much like the idea that it simulates engine braking when it's fully charged, which strikes me as needlessly complicated, and a little uneconomical. As long as you have brakes, why not let it coast?
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Old 1st April 2021, 07:18 AM   #775
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
[Totally on topic]
Had to look that one up. I gotta ask, Eddie, is "skeuomorphic" in your regular vocabulary or did you pull a fast one on us?
[/Totally on topic]
I know the word and concept from fierce debates, mainly about Apple interfaces, about how appropriate it is to make graphic elements mimic real world items. Thing left like simulating leather on an address book. Or even making an on-screen button appear 3D.

Iím in favor of limited use of such things, and they donít in general bug me.
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Old 1st April 2021, 09:50 AM   #776
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
So by one pedal driving, you don't mean being supplied with only one pedal, so not all that different from driving a vehicle with good engine braking and a hill holder.

It sounds pretty benign, but I don't much like the idea that it simulates engine braking when it's fully charged, which strikes me as needlessly complicated, and a little uneconomical. As long as you have brakes, why not let it coast?
Regenerative braking canít be used when an EV is near 100% charge because there is no place to put the energy generated slowing down the car. This isnít a big deal because it is rare to charge an EV 100%. Having the car act different in this rare situation would create a safety issue.

Recommend practice is to only charge an EV to between 80% and 90% of full charge. Charging to 100% only when the full range is needed. Topping off the battery is slow. It may take as long to get from 90% to 100% as it did to get from 50% to 90%. Going to a full charge also stresses the battery.
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Old 1st April 2021, 10:36 AM   #777
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
Setting the car in one-pedal mode does not mean that I have to take the brake pedal out of the foot-well, or it retracts into the dash-board. The brake pedal still works and it works, mostly, by applying the brakes conventionally. Depending upon how hard you press the brake pedal, or how fast you're going, or how full you're battery is, the car will decide the proportion of regen to conventional braking to apply
Correct, and it is very easy to use and get used to. I got to drive the upcoming Bolt EUV with the one pedal driving and it was a bit strange at first, but quickly got used to it.

What was better was the Super Cruise that allowed me to drive hands free on the highway. Was really smooth in the curves and maintained lane well, even though I did not try and use the total functionality. The hard part was figuring out where to put my hands.
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Old 1st April 2021, 11:48 AM   #778
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"You'll get used to it" isn't the same thing as "Doing it this way has specific, objective advantage so and so."

I didn't say I couldn't get used it, I said I didn't like it.
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Old 1st April 2021, 12:08 PM   #779
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"You'll get used to it" isn't the same thing as "Doing it this way has specific, objective advantage so and so."

I didn't say I couldn't get used it, I said I didn't like it.
It typically is an optional feature. You can turn it on and off. And yet, most people prefer to have it on. So, most users seem to like it once they try it.

What didn't you like about it?
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Old 1st April 2021, 01:46 PM   #780
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Well I expect to feel engine braking if I lift off in my ICE car so a modest degree of regen braking ought to feel natural I guess. More natural than just coasting as if I'd knocked it into neutral, anyway.
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Old 1st April 2021, 02:42 PM   #781
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Well I expect to feel engine braking if I lift off in my ICE car so a modest degree of regen braking ought to feel natural I guess. More natural than just coasting as if I'd knocked it into neutral, anyway.
My Honda Clarity has paddles to select the amount of REGEN, marked in 1 to 4 “chevrons” on the panel. I select 4 chevrons - Max REGEN - when I start the car and leave it there. Letting off the “gas” is similar to downshifting, which is very handy on the twisty roads around me. Many, if not most, owners wish more REGEN was available to get closer to one pedal driving. The supposition is that Honda didn’t want a plug-in hybrid that drove too differently from their regular hybrids.

As an aside, if you get in a heavy REGEN situation with a full battery, the Clarity will start its gas engine and use its compression to slow the car. It works, but seems kinda wasteful.
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Old 1st April 2021, 03:44 PM   #782
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Regenerative braking canít be used when an EV is near 100% charge because there is no place to put the energy generated slowing down the car. This isnít a big deal because it is rare to charge an EV 100%. Having the car act different in this rare situation would create a safety issue.

Recommend practice is to only charge an EV to between 80% and 90% of full charge. Charging to 100% only when the full range is needed. Topping off the battery is slow. It may take as long to get from 90% to 100% as it did to get from 50% to 90%. Going to a full charge also stresses the battery.
I understand the issue. I just miss the idea that one can coast.

I think here in fairly hilly country, the best practiced would almost certainly be to undercharge a little, and use the free charge from regenerative braking. If one doesn't need the last few miles of range, it's almost certain to cost less than the combination of paying for full charge and scrubbing off excess energy with the brakes.
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Old 1st April 2021, 05:18 PM   #783
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I understand the issue. I just miss the idea that one can coast.

I think here in fairly hilly country, the best practiced would almost certainly be to undercharge a little, and use the free charge from regenerative braking. If one doesn't need the last few miles of range, it's almost certain to cost less than the combination of paying for full charge and scrubbing off excess energy with the brakes.
Coasting is available in all electric and plug in hybrid vehicles.

If you want to coast, you turn off the regenerative braking.

My car also has the regenerative braking levels linked to paddles on the steering wheel.

Please note that 'coasting' requires some power consumption in electric vehicles, there has to be enough power applied to the electric motors to overcome the innate resistance of the motor.
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Old 1st April 2021, 05:45 PM   #784
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Coasting is available in all electric and plug in hybrid vehicles.

If you want to coast, you turn off the regenerative braking.

My car also has the regenerative braking levels linked to paddles on the steering wheel.

Please note that 'coasting' requires some power consumption in electric vehicles, there has to be enough power applied to the electric motors to overcome the innate resistance of the motor.
I really don't have the option of turning off regen braking in my Tesla. It was probably hitting the range estimates that Tesla publishes.
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Old 1st April 2021, 06:30 PM   #785
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Going to a full charge also stresses the battery.
Why?

BTW, I don't want that to sound hostile; I'm really curious.
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Old 1st April 2021, 06:31 PM   #786
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I know what you mean, but technically, you can 'turn off' the regenerative braking with sufficient pressure on the accelerator pedal.

(i.e. enough power to prevent regen, but not enough to cause acceleration.)

It's just easier in my car with the paddles.

(Regenerative braking can be set from B0 to B5, applying the brake pedal momentarily increases the setting up to B6 depending to the amount of pressure applied)
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Old 1st April 2021, 06:36 PM   #787
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
My Honda Clarity has paddles to select the amount of REGEN, marked in 1 to 4 ďchevronsĒ on the panel.
Why would anyone select less than 4? What situations would make choosing a smaller number advantageous? If you chose 1 (there's no zero, I suppose) would that be like coasting in an ICE car?
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Old 1st April 2021, 07:07 PM   #788
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Why?

BTW, I don't want that to sound hostile; I'm really curious.
There is a lot that goes into battery management to make sure that they last as long and deliver as much capacity as possible.

If lithium batteries were fully charged it can mess up the battery because it loses its internal structure. It has to do with the way lithium ions move inside the battery. You can look it up if you want more details.

But it isn't an issue because when you charge your car to 100% the on-board battery management doesn't allow the battery to be charged fully. You can't charge the battery to 100%. In my case, when the car is charged to 100%, the battery is actually at something like 87%.

The battery management system also won't let the battery be discharged to too low of a level.

Last edited by jadebox; 1st April 2021 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 1st April 2021, 08:49 PM   #789
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Why would anyone select less than 4? What situations would make choosing a smaller number advantageous? If you chose 1 (there's no zero, I suppose) would that be like coasting in an ICE car?

I suppose it would make it easier to pseudo-coast on a long downhill stretch. Your speed could drift around a bit as the slope varies without having to constantly adjust pedal position or have alternating acceleration and (regen) deceleration.
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Old 1st April 2021, 10:39 PM   #790
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Why?

BTW, I don't want that to sound hostile; I'm really curious.
The most serious issue is that the anode of lithium ion batteries expands as the charge level increases.
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Old 2nd April 2021, 06:29 AM   #791
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Why would anyone select less than 4? What situations would make choosing a smaller number advantageous? If you chose 1 (there's no zero, I suppose) would that be like coasting in an ICE car?
Even 1 chevron provides some small amount of REGEN.

The only time I choose less is on miles-long descents in the mountains. I paddle up or down to maintain speed and/or following distance. Admittedly, you could get the same result by either using cruise control or just gently using the brake pedal to control REGEN, but sometimes using the paddles seems appropriate.

Another odd choice by Honda: every time you stop, or even slow a lot and accelerate, your REGEN setting goes back to minimum. Except in “SPORT” mode where it remains where you set it unless you activate cruise control. SPORT mode reprograms the “gas” pedal to be more responsive, so I virtually live in SPORT with no obvious hit to EV miles. It just feels peppier, though mashing the gas pedal results in maximum acceleration regardless of mode selected.

Last edited by Fast Eddie B; 2nd April 2021 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 2nd April 2021, 04:48 PM   #792
SezMe
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Here's good news for EV fans:
Quote:
President Joe Biden is prioritizing a national EV charging network under his $2 trillion infrastructure bill, promising to have at least 500,000 of the devices installed across the U.S. by 2030.
Linky.
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Old 3rd April 2021, 08:36 AM   #793
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
My first electric vehicle is probably going to be one of these.

FonzMoto

Interesting site and product.

I have to think that the copyright and trademark negotiations were interesting, as well.
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Old 3rd April 2021, 09:05 AM   #794
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Interesting site and product.

I have to think that the copyright and trademark negotiations were interesting, as well.
It appears that Paramount's trademarks for a "The Fonz" shirt design are dead (in the US). And names are not protected by copyright.
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