ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 13th February 2017, 08:05 AM   #121
Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
 
Hokulele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Biggest Little City in the World
Posts: 29,433
Considering the likelihood that many of these petitions attract the same signatories, a better quote from Proverbs would be, "As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly."
__________________
"Oh god...What have you done, zooterkin? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!?!?!" - Cleon
Hokulele is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th February 2017, 08:15 AM   #122
Brass
Critical Thinker
 
Brass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 441
I have come to the realization that "truthers" do not want a "new investigation" as much as they want confirmation of their beliefs. Even if a new investigation is conducted, they will not be satisfied or happy with it unless it proves (by hook or by crook) their beliefs. I'm a strong believer in this. How about a better question; WHO should be in charge of this investigation? And don't say "an unbiased, third party team" because according to some "truthers" that would include AE911Truth. A government-appointed investigation team? A team "approved" by AE911Truth? Who? What?!

Furthermore, is 9/11 not one of the most studied events in human history? Surely, the vast majority of investigations would come to the same conclusions that "truthers" have if it was the most studied event.
Brass is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th February 2017, 08:58 AM   #123
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 24,092
Originally Posted by Brass View Post
How about a better question; WHO should be in charge of this investigation? And don't say "an unbiased, third party team" because according to some "truthers" that would include AE911Truth. A government-appointed investigation team? A team "approved" by AE911Truth? Who? What?!
That question has been asked many times on this forum, and it's one it seems the truthers would rather eat a bucket of their own vomit than answer. The reason is quite obvious; they want the option of rejecting the results of any investigation that doesn't support their own pre-formed conclusions, and refusing to specify who should do what gives them a get-out clause in the inevitable event of that happening.

Plus, of course, there's the infighting within the movement; the thermians would rather anything than a finding of explosives, the Judy Wood energy beams from space mob would revile either, and the Pentagon flyover folks and the Pentagon missile advocates wouldn't dream of supporting each other's conclusions. Everybody wants their own conspiracy theory to be true, and hates the thought that somebody else's might be.

Dave
__________________
Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th February 2017, 01:09 PM   #124
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 12,912
Originally Posted by Brass View Post
Furthermore, is 9/11 not one of the most studied events in human history? Surely, the vast majority of investigations would come to the same conclusions that "truthers" have if it was the most studied event.

The evolution of the concept of "New Investigation" is one of the most interesting things about the Truth Movement. If you think it refers to a bunch of detectives examining cold-case evidence, you're a few years behind the times. Like other similarly named things such as the New Jerusalem or the New Age, the New Investigation has become primarily a religious concept, an apocalyptic change in which consensual will and/or divine intervention transforms the world.

When no distinction is acknowledged between historical fact and political spin, a New Investigation represents an opportunity to alter reality, regardless of what past investigations have already discovered. It's a complete break, a do-over from scratch, like rewriting a chapter of a novel or going back in time to alter the past as in Groundhog Day or Edge of Tomorrow. It's irrelevant whether demolition charges or remote-controlled drone planes were actually present on 9/11. If there's a New Investigation, those things can be written in.

Such a New Investigation requires almighty power, though, which is why no conceivable practical investigation carried out by mere mortals has ever or shall ever suffice. We silly skeptics persist in pointing out the irreconcilable contradiction between the sought-for New Investigation's supposed power (to subpoena all "witnesses" and "suspects" domestic or foreign, and force honest answers with threats of perjury prosecution, which only the judicial branch of government can even come close to doing) and its required autonomy (independence from the government that is suspected of the conspiracy in the first place). We attempt to address that issue because we're hearing catechism and mistaking it for argument. The Truthers don't care. The investigation they want is literally miraculous, and therefore beyond such concerns.

Although, as Dave Rogers just pointed out, there are sectarian differences among Truthers over that catechism. Not about how the New Investigation should be brought about or conducted (they never discuss or argue with one another about that, any more than they discuss it with us), but about what transformation it should herald; what the new do-over narrative should be.
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister...

Last edited by Myriad; 13th February 2017 at 01:10 PM.
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th February 2017, 06:36 PM   #125
pgimeno
Illuminator
 
pgimeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,211
If it keeps this pace, it might manage to reach 1% of the target number of signatures, which is, surprisingly, less than 50% of the number of members in AE911T.

I wouldn't count on that, though.
__________________
Ask questions. Demand answers. But be prepared to accept the answers, or don't ask questions in the first place.
pgimeno is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th February 2017, 07:15 PM   #126
Axxman300
Graduate Poster
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 1,784
Whoohoo! 643 morons have signed.
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th February 2017, 07:34 PM   #127
Axxman300
Graduate Poster
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
The evolution of the concept of "New Investigation" is one of the most interesting things about the Truth Movement. If you think it refers to a bunch of detectives examining cold-case evidence, you're a few years behind the times. Like other similarly named things such as the New Jerusalem or the New Age, the New Investigation has become primarily a religious concept, an apocalyptic change in which consensual will and/or divine intervention transforms the world.
It already is a religious concept. They way the phrase is used is almost exactly the same as "Amen", or "Hail Mary Mother of Grace", or "Allah Akbar".

They don't want a new investigation, they want an official stamp on their beliefs. This is not exclusive to 9-11, the JFK assassination actually got a second investigation, which was a waste of time, and mostly served to give lousy evidence credibility.

The 9-11 CTs (all of them) are rooted in the collapse of the towers and #7, which came down on live TV, and 99% of humans had never seen anything like this before. When we invade Iraq, the Truthers start to back-engineer events to attempt to marry them with whichever stupid theory they've dreamed up. We have seen them all right here on this board.

It is very much a religious belief, and is defended in ways that are identical to those who attempt to present their spiritual beliefs as scientific facts with the same outcome: People who share their beliefs agree, while everyone else shakes their heads.

I keep saying that anybody can investigate 9-11. New York is still there, most of the first responders, survivors, and eye witnesses are still alive. The evidence from all of the investigations can be viewed with a FOIA request. You can hire an engineering firm to run computer simulations of every scenario possible to see which one has the best fit.

The fact that almost nobody has done this on their own reveals just how serious the 9-11 Truthers really are.
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th February 2017, 08:25 PM   #128
TheGnome
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Berne, Switzerland
Posts: 88
I have accidentally done something reasonable today and I desperately need to compensate

Say would they accept an email address ending in dot ch ? I couldn't find out on the petition website.
TheGnome is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th February 2017, 09:21 PM   #129
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,232
Rough math says it'll need 11k per day, 450 votes per hour to make the goal.

I blame thermite for this.
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
----------------------------------------------
Proud woo denier
----------------------------------------------
“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” -Christopher Hitchens-
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th February 2017, 12:36 AM   #130
Cosmic Yak
Graduate Poster
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 1,612
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post

I keep saying that anybody can investigate 9-11. New York is still there, most of the first responders, survivors, and eye witnesses are still alive. The evidence from all of the investigations can be viewed with a FOIA request. You can hire an engineering firm to run computer simulations of every scenario possible to see which one has the best fit.

The fact that almost nobody has done this on their own reveals just how serious the 9-11 Truthers really are.
Good points here. It's interesting how so many of the truthers here attempt to pin the blame for their inaction on the skeptics, as if we had some kind of evil influence over them and their collective initiative.
Personally, I would take it as an incentive, rather than an obstacle, if a group of scoffers on a forum were mocking my deeply-held beliefs, especially if those beliefs- if proven- would uncover a monstrous injustice. I would be doubly motivated to investigate, on my own if necessary, primarily to prove them wrong, and then to right the wrongs.

fonebone: I note that you style yourself "an independent investigator". Have you taken any of the steps detailed by Axman300? What form has your investigation taken?
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th February 2017, 02:18 PM   #131
BasqueArch
Graduate Poster
 
BasqueArch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,858
Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
The evolution of the concept of "New Investigation" is one of the most interesting things about the Truth Movement. If you think it refers to a bunch of detectives examining cold-case evidence, you're a few years behind the times. Like other similarly named things such as the New Jerusalem or the New Age, the New Investigation has become primarily a religious concept, an apocalyptic change in which consensual will and/or divine intervention transforms the world.

When no distinction is acknowledged between historical fact and political spin, a New Investigation represents an opportunity to alter reality, regardless of what past investigations have already discovered. It's a complete break, a do-over from scratch, like rewriting a chapter of a novel or going back in time to alter the past as in Groundhog Day or Edge of Tomorrow. It's irrelevant whether demolition charges or remote-controlled drone planes were actually present on 9/11. If there's a New Investigation, those things can be written in.

Such a New Investigation requires almighty power, though, which is why no conceivable practical investigation carried out by mere mortals has ever or shall ever suffice. We silly skeptics persist in pointing out the irreconcilable contradiction between the sought-for New Investigation's supposed power (to subpoena all "witnesses" and "suspects" domestic or foreign, and force honest answers with threats of perjury prosecution, which only the judicial branch of government can even come close to doing) and its required autonomy (independence from the government that is suspected of the conspiracy in the first place). We attempt to address that issue because we're hearing catechism and mistaking it for argument. The Truthers don't care. The investigation they want is literally miraculous, and therefore beyond such concerns.

Although, as Dave Rogers just pointed out, there are sectarian differences among Truthers over that catechism. Not about how the New Investigation should be brought about or conducted (they never discuss or argue with one another about that, any more than they discuss it with us), but about what transformation it should herald; what the new do-over narrative should be.
Correct analysis. Thank you.
__________________
In Your Guts You Know They're Nuts. "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard . "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. "- Marcus Aurelius
A Truther is a True Believer convinced by lies. You can't reason someone out of a thing they weren't reasoned into.
BasqueArch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th February 2017, 02:21 PM   #132
BasqueArch
Graduate Poster
 
BasqueArch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,858
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
It already is a religious concept. They way the phrase is used is almost exactly the same as "Amen", or "Hail Mary Mother of Grace", or "Allah Akbar".

They don't want a new investigation, they want an official stamp on their beliefs. This is not exclusive to 9-11, the JFK assassination actually got a second investigation, which was a waste of time, and mostly served to give lousy evidence credibility.

The 9-11 CTs (all of them) are rooted in the collapse of the towers and #7, which came down on live TV, and 99% of humans had never seen anything like this before. When we invade Iraq, the Truthers start to back-engineer events to attempt to marry them with whichever stupid theory they've dreamed up. We have seen them all right here on this board.

It is very much a religious belief, and is defended in ways that are identical to those who attempt to present their spiritual beliefs as scientific facts with the same outcome: People who share their beliefs agree, while everyone else shakes their heads.

I keep saying that anybody can investigate 9-11. New York is still there, most of the first responders, survivors, and eye witnesses are still alive. The evidence from all of the investigations can be viewed with a FOIA request. You can hire an engineering firm to run computer simulations of every scenario possible to see which one has the best fit.

The fact that almost nobody has done this on their own reveals just how serious the 9-11 Truthers really are.
Correct and true. Thank you.
It's hard to be wrong when you are right.

Et al.
__________________
In Your Guts You Know They're Nuts. "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard . "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. "- Marcus Aurelius
A Truther is a True Believer convinced by lies. You can't reason someone out of a thing they weren't reasoned into.

Last edited by BasqueArch; 14th February 2017 at 02:22 PM.
BasqueArch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th February 2017, 02:25 PM   #133
BasqueArch
Graduate Poster
 
BasqueArch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,858
Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
To know what is right and not do it is the worse cowardice _Confucius

02-09-2017 08:45 AM EST 558 signed and verified
It's hard to be right when you are wrong.
"There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard
__________________
In Your Guts You Know They're Nuts. "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard . "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. "- Marcus Aurelius
A Truther is a True Believer convinced by lies. You can't reason someone out of a thing they weren't reasoned into.
BasqueArch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th February 2017, 03:10 PM   #134
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,535
Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Truth is precious and divine ;
too rich a pearl for carnal swine .
-Samual Butler


Cast pearls before swine - If you cast pearls before swine, you offer something
of value to someone who doesn't appreciate it- 'swine' are 'pigs'.
I interprete your post as me casting pearls (i.e., my information is precious, good, of rare quality) and you being swine (i.e. uninterested in good information, or unappreciative of good infoprmation).

That would be an unusually honest confession.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th February 2017, 03:17 PM   #135
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,535
Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
...Not about how the New Investigation should be brought about or conducted (they never discuss or argue with one another about that, any more than they discuss it with us), but about what transformation it should herald; ...
Do they at least discuss it within any of the separate denominations? I cannot recall from the top of my head having any information to that effect. Sure, we may not be privy to much of what they discuss internally, but some stuff leaks all the time.

Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
...what the new do-over narrative should be.
Aren't you a sunny optimist!
To the best of my knowledge, there exists no comprehensive narrative of the events of 9/11 - all three sites - within any of the denominations. Just vague hints at disjoint elements and catchwords they want that evasive narrative to contain.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th February 2017, 03:30 PM   #136
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,535
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Whoohoo! 643 morons have signed.
20 hours later: 650.

With 8 days to go, at that pace, they'll make it to 720 or something like that.

During the week from February 06 to Feb 13, they got 78 signatures per day. This was the strongest of the three weeks so far.

Could they have maintained that pace for the entire 30 days, they could have dreamt of over 2.3% of the target.

The strongest single day was Feb 07 with 260 signatures.
This on every day would land them at under 8% of the target.

The second strongest single day was Feb 09 with 106 signatures - 3% of what they need every day.


Fonebone said it best: "embarrassing and pathetic"-
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th February 2017, 03:42 PM   #137
benthamitemetric
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 440
If the release of two fulsome, independent WTC 7 collapse investigation reports from the Aegis insurance litigation wasn't enough to lay bare how hollow AE911Truth's claims have been all these years, the Plasco building collapse may have been. While diehards like Tony grasp for straws, over all truther activity at their usual internet discussion boards seems to have plummeted over the last year, with barely anything but some laughable new conspiracies about plasco from the usual suspects in recent weeks.
benthamitemetric is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2017, 03:37 PM   #138
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,535
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
20 hours later: 650.
24 hours later: 693
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2017, 04:58 PM   #139
gerdbonk
Penultimate Amazing
 
gerdbonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de Porciúncula
Posts: 10,766
Edge of the seat excitement.
__________________
I'll bet you didn't notice that I changed my signature
gerdbonk is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2017, 05:59 PM   #140
John Jones
Penultimate Amazing
 
John Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,852


OMFG! OMFG!

How will this end?
__________________
Credibility is not a boomerang. If you throw it away, it's not coming back.

Last edited by John Jones; 15th February 2017 at 06:01 PM.
John Jones is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2017, 06:03 PM   #141
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
 
DGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,183
Originally Posted by John Jones View Post


OMFG! OMFG!

How will this end?
It's certainly a nail biter............

Like everything a "truther" does, it's half-assed .
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

"How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41

Last edited by DGM; 15th February 2017 at 06:08 PM.
DGM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2017, 06:30 PM   #142
pgimeno
Illuminator
 
pgimeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,211
It may have been announced somewhere. It has raised in by 43 votes, from 693 to 736, in 2 hours.

http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgim...ion/graph2.php
__________________
Ask questions. Demand answers. But be prepared to accept the answers, or don't ask questions in the first place.
pgimeno is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2017, 06:30 PM   #143
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,232
Originally Posted by John Jones View Post


OMFG! OMFG!

How will this end?
With a controlled demolition, Obviously

738; I'll throw some streamers when it hits the knee weakening power of 1,000 signatures, Give or take a few dozen dupes.
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
----------------------------------------------
Proud woo denier
----------------------------------------------
“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” -Christopher Hitchens-

Last edited by Nay_Sayer; 15th February 2017 at 06:32 PM.
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2017, 05:19 AM   #144
Crazy Chainsaw
Illuminator
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,728
Would anyone sign a new 9/11 petition at the White House website, to investigate why Truthers don't have brain cells and how the function with empty skulls?
I am thinking about sponcering that petition.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2017, 03:07 PM   #145
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,232
823: The masses1 have spoken

[1]See instances of multiple votes.
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
----------------------------------------------
Proud woo denier
----------------------------------------------
“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” -Christopher Hitchens-
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2017, 06:35 PM   #146
gerdbonk
Penultimate Amazing
 
gerdbonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de Porciúncula
Posts: 10,766
What about all those corrupted citizens who have been paid to not vote!!!
__________________
I'll bet you didn't notice that I changed my signature

Last edited by gerdbonk; 16th February 2017 at 06:37 PM.
gerdbonk is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2017, 09:39 PM   #147
ProBonoShill
Master Poster
 
ProBonoShill's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,109
Originally Posted by DGM View Post
It's certainly a nail biter............

Like everything a "truther" does, it's half-assed .
Yep the only thing twoofers excel at......failure.
__________________
"CD does not prove 9/11 was an inside job. It only proves CD"- FalseFlag
ProBonoShill is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2017, 01:07 PM   #148
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 24,744
Originally Posted by Jaytje46 View Post
Quote:
Open a new investigation into the events of 911 and incorporate the forensic evidence offered by ae911truth.org.
At least the investigation will be short... there is no forensic evidence offered by the nuts and dolts at ae911t; a delusional lie by ae911t to fool failed paranoid followers.

Failed followers, up to 994 dolts fooled by a lie. Two days to go to find some more of the few, the dumbed down, 9/11 truth followers celebrating overwhelming ignorance for 15 years.
__________________
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein
"... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK
https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2017, 07:02 PM   #149
Fonebone
persona non grata
 
Fonebone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 477
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Would anyone sign a new 9/11 petition at the White House website, to investigate why Truthers don't have brain cells and how the function with empty skulls?
I am thinking about sponcering that petition.
Tell you what buzzy, why don't you write the petition and post the verbiage
here for inspection. If your petition appears at the "we the people " .GOV
site I'll sign / verify and volunteer as your number one investigatee.
Fonebone
__________________
Truth, like the sun, allows itself to be obscured;
but, like the sun, only for a time __Bovee

Truth once elicited never dies -Bancroft

twoofers versus twidiots , twaitors , twusters and boil-thuckers
Fonebone is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2017, 08:15 PM   #150
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 24,744
ae911t lies to cult members

Where is ae911t hiding their forensic evidence? They are liars, and fool those who don't do science, the fringe few who are gullible. Why is 9/11 truth anti-science, using opinions based on paranoia and conspiracy theories to generate fake evidence? Richard Gage has fooled people with the claim of having evidence, the insane lie from the movement based on the believers overwhelming ignorance.
__________________
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein
"... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK
https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232

Last edited by beachnut; 20th February 2017 at 08:16 PM.
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2017, 12:38 AM   #151
Cosmic Yak
Graduate Poster
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 1,612
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
It already is a religious concept. They way the phrase is used is almost exactly the same as "Amen", or "Hail Mary Mother of Grace", or "Allah Akbar".

They don't want a new investigation, they want an official stamp on their beliefs. This is not exclusive to 9-11, the JFK assassination actually got a second investigation, which was a waste of time, and mostly served to give lousy evidence credibility.

The 9-11 CTs (all of them) are rooted in the collapse of the towers and #7, which came down on live TV, and 99% of humans had never seen anything like this before. When we invade Iraq, the Truthers start to back-engineer events to attempt to marry them with whichever stupid theory they've dreamed up. We have seen them all right here on this board.

It is very much a religious belief, and is defended in ways that are identical to those who attempt to present their spiritual beliefs as scientific facts with the same outcome: People who share their beliefs agree, while everyone else shakes their heads.

I keep saying that anybody can investigate 9-11. New York is still there, most of the first responders, survivors, and eye witnesses are still alive. The evidence from all of the investigations can be viewed with a FOIA request. You can hire an engineering firm to run computer simulations of every scenario possible to see which one has the best fit.

The fact that almost nobody has done this on their own reveals just how serious the 9-11 Truthers really are.
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Good points here. It's interesting how so many of the truthers here attempt to pin the blame for their inaction on the skeptics, as if we had some kind of evil influence over them and their collective initiative.
Personally, I would take it as an incentive, rather than an obstacle, if a group of scoffers on a forum were mocking my deeply-held beliefs, especially if those beliefs- if proven- would uncover a monstrous injustice. I would be doubly motivated to investigate, on my own if necessary, primarily to prove them wrong, and then to right the wrongs.

fonebone: I note that you style yourself "an independent investigator". Have you taken any of the steps detailed by Axman300? What form has your investigation taken?
fonebone: if you've got time to get snarky with Crazy Chainsaw, you've got time to answer this, and it would be much more productive for everyone.
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2017, 06:45 AM   #152
Crazy Chainsaw
Illuminator
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,728
Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
... Take thou thy arms and come with me,
for we must quit ourselves as men,
and strive to aid our cause although we be of two.
Great is the strength of feeble arms combined,
and we can combat even with the brave .

--Homer's iliad Bk XIII Line 289
A fool and his money are soon parted, by those with fast tounges and loose hands.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2017, 07:11 AM   #153
MostlyDead
Graduate Poster
 
MostlyDead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,566
February 21, 9 AM EST: 996 sigs. There were actually more signers for that flat-earth petition.

Is anyone else's shill check late this month?
__________________
Thusly blathered MostlyDead
MostlyDead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2017, 07:40 AM   #154
Crazy Chainsaw
Illuminator
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,728
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
February 21, 9 AM EST: 996 sigs. There were actually more signers for that flat-earth petition.

Is anyone else's shill check late this month?
Yes but I don't get a check, I requested pay in beautiful naked women, it was a mistake, do you know how many mouths I now have to feed, should have said beautiful Naked Intellect employable naked women all they send me now a days are the mindless clones.
I laid some out in the yard as stepping stones so I don't have to walk in the mud, where the grass has been resown.
The Reptile overlords take good care of me.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2017, 07:58 AM   #155
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 24,092
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
February 21, 9 AM EST: 996 sigs. There were actually more signers for that flat-earth petition.

Is anyone else's shill check late this month?
Not for those of us who signed the flat earth petition to make the truthers look even crazier.

Dave
__________________
Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2017, 08:20 AM   #156
MostlyDead
Graduate Poster
 
MostlyDead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,566
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Yes but I don't get a check, I requested pay in beautiful naked women, it was a mistake, do you know how many mouths I now have to feed, should have said beautiful Naked Intellect employable naked women all they send me now a days are the mindless clones.
I laid some out in the yard as stepping stones so I don't have to walk in the mud, where the grass has been resown.
The Reptile overlords take good care of me.
Check their browsing history, specifically for the White House petition site.

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Not for those of us who signed the flat earth petition to make the truthers look even crazier.

Dave
Does that get you twice the shill rate or shill rate squared?
__________________
Thusly blathered MostlyDead
MostlyDead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2017, 09:52 AM   #157
Fonebone
persona non grata
 
Fonebone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 477
Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
If it keeps this pace, it might manage to reach 1% of the target number of signatures, which is, surprisingly, less than 50% of the number of members in AE911T.

I wouldn't count on that, though.
The petition ratchet has been frozen at 996 signed/verified for 24 hours.
Four votes short of 1000.
--IOW-- just short of the one percent of the total required for the White House to acknowledge.
More skulduggery ?
__________________
Truth, like the sun, allows itself to be obscured;
but, like the sun, only for a time __Bovee

Truth once elicited never dies -Bancroft

twoofers versus twidiots , twaitors , twusters and boil-thuckers
Fonebone is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2017, 09:54 AM   #158
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 24,092
Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
The petition ratchet has been frozen at 996 signed/verified for 24 hours.
Four votes short of 1000.
--IOW-- just short of the one percent of the total required for the White House to acknowledge.
More skulduggery ?
I question your use of the word "more".

Dave
__________________
Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2017, 10:04 AM   #159
pgimeno
Illuminator
 
pgimeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,211
It's at 997 now. But it's more telling how many have *not* signed.

From the 2560 members that the ae911truth.org homepage shows as of this writing, we know positively that more than 1500 have not signed, probably even many more.

That's how much these architects and engineers actually care. You can't allege cowardice, since they were willing to put their reputation at stake by signing the AE911T petition in the first place.

I suspect many of these have actually had second thoughts but do not care enough to cancel their membership. Or perhaps they are able to see through what this new administration actually wants, and know that it's a waste of time. Or both. Let's not forget that it's the same party that brought Cheney, Rice, Bush, Rumsfeld, Giuliani (who seems to be going to take a prominent place) and others. Whoever thinks they are interested in "draining the swamp" is self deluded.

(Yes, sorry, my previous post was in the wrong thread, I've reported it hoping for it to be moved)
__________________
Ask questions. Demand answers. But be prepared to accept the answers, or don't ask questions in the first place.
pgimeno is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2017, 10:04 AM   #160
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,535
Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
The petition ratchet has been frozen at 996 signed/verified for 24 hours.
Not true.
Only 21 hours ago, beachnut reported 994.
Now it's 997.

It's not frozen, just very very slow. Or, as you put it so aptly:
Originally Posted by Fonebone
...embarrassing and pathetic

Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Four votes short of 1000.
--IOW-- just short of the one percent of the total required for the White House to acknowledge.
More skulduggery ?
Why would anyone bother? Do you imagine that, say, 1.1% is significantly less embarrassing and pathetic than 0.996%?
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:10 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.