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Old 18th October 2020, 10:15 AM   #2241
The Don
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Ronna McDaniel tweeted


@GOPChairwoman
“Experts are saying, with genuine confidence, that the pandemic in the United States will be over far sooner than they expected.” – The New York Times

Thanks to @realDonaldTrump’s efforts, we are closer than ever to a vaccine!
I assume that NYT quote is taken out of context....
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Old 18th October 2020, 10:17 AM   #2242
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I assume that NYT quote is taken out of context....
Or a letter to the editor or opinion piece by one of their conservative contributors, etc.
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Old 18th October 2020, 10:59 AM   #2243
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I assume that NYT quote is taken out of context....

The premise of the lengthy article is that things aren't as bad as they could have been because of the interventions we have taken, but we're not out of the woods yet.
Quote:
Events have moved faster than I thought possible. I have become cautiously optimistic. Experts are saying, with genuine confidence, that the pandemic in the United States will be over far sooner than they expected, possibly by the middle of next year.

That is still some time off. Experts warn that this autumn and winter may be grim; indoor dining, in-classroom schooling, contact sports, jet travel and family holiday dinners may all drive up infections, hospitalizations and deaths. Cases are rising in most states, and some hospitals already face being overwhelmed.

Even if the cavalry is in sight, it is not here yet. To prevent deaths reaching 400,000, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci has warned, “We all need to hunker down.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/12/h...-optimism.html
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Old 18th October 2020, 11:01 AM   #2244
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
What is it with this pathetic creep that he can sell this kind of argument to his followers? The most testing that we have done the more prevalent we have discovered it to be, contradicting his public lies that all is under control and safe. Not to mention how crucial testing is to control of outbreaks!

Does Trump really buy into this idiocy?
Yes, according to his pattern of rationalizing his failures.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 18th October 2020, 11:05 AM   #2245
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Ronna McDaniel tweeted
@GOPChairwoman
“Experts are saying, with genuine confidence, that the pandemic in the United States will be over far sooner than they expected.” – The New York Times.
Thanks to @realDonaldTrump’s efforts, we are closer than ever to a vaccine!
Ironic that Ronna McDaniel, herself recovering from a bout with Covid-19, would quote "experts," since the trump administration has routinely tried to devalue them and attack their expertise, as well as ignoring their advice. Now all of a sudden, it's experts say! Can't argue with them thar experts, can ya?

It is contained in what is essentially a Times news article -- Wait, McDaniel quoting the Times? The enemy of the people, Fake News? (How does anyone take these people seriously?) -- by Times science reporter Daniel McNeil, Jr. McNeil joined the Times in 1976 and has specialized on medical reporting. He's filed stories from sixty different countries.

Times link
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Old 18th October 2020, 11:05 AM   #2246
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Given the possibility that Biden wins this election, is there anything that could be done to improve the disastrous handling of covid in the US? For example, January would be the earliest the Dems could implement policy, and what policies could make much difference at that point?
The damage done from Trump's year of discouraging people to wear masks will be very hard to reverse.

But that doesn't mean Biden can't get the epidemic under control.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 18th October 2020, 11:10 AM   #2247
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The premise of the lengthy article is that things aren't as bad as they could have been because of the interventions we have taken, but we're not out of the woods yet.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/12/h...-optimism.html
I think ms McDaniel left an important part of the sentence out:
Quote:
possibly by the middle of next year.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 18th October 2020, 12:34 PM   #2248
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
To answer my own question, the United States does appear to have the highest per capita test rate in the world.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/f...r-thousand-map

ETA: On further review, Denmark and Iceland have higher testing rates. (The link above is to a map of the world, not a table, so I missed those countries the first time around.)
I almost pity Donald Trump. At the beginning of the US outbreak of the pandemic, people were screaming, "We need more testing." Now, he has given us more testing, and people still aren't happy. It must be very discouraging for him.

However, it's the sort of pity that Bilbo or Frodo might have felt for Gollum. This wretched, miserable, creature might have something like a human heart somewhere in there. The poor fool didn't understand why testing was important, or how to get it into a coordinated plan for controlling a virus, or how to communicate it to people. He has that simple, childish, approach to everything, and always putting himself first, and he doesn't see why it's failing and how he could do anything any differently.
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Old 18th October 2020, 02:04 PM   #2249
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Trump did not decide to atomize cities contaminated with Covid-19, therefore he saved millions of lives!
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Old 18th October 2020, 03:00 PM   #2250
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As far as mask wearing is concerned, the damage is done. Those who believe in wearing them, are wearing them. The idiots who don't, aren't going to start just because Trump is out and Biden is in.
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Old 18th October 2020, 03:34 PM   #2251
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
As far as mask wearing is concerned, the damage is done. Those who believe in wearing them, are wearing them. The idiots who don't, aren't going to start just because Trump is out and Biden is in.
1) There are people who used to wear them but have become complacent or influenced not to wear them. They just need a little nudge, a little peer pressure, an excuse to wear them despite peer pressure not to.

2) There are TV ads now telling people to wear them. Those could be expanded.

3) If Biden was smart (maybe some of his advisors will give this advice) he'd do more with the stats we are now seeing: He could show that the rate of COVID was directly related to various events.

4) Testing and contact tracing might also convince some people to wear masks.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 18th October 2020, 03:54 PM   #2252
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
To answer my own question, the United States does appear to have the highest per capita test rate in the world.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/f...r-thousand-map

ETA: On further review, Denmark and Iceland have higher testing rates. (The link above is to a map of the world, not a table, so I missed those countries the first time around.)
Here's a small possible confounder of testing numbers: In order to visit their loved ones in the campus Care Center, visitors must take a fast turnaround test, then avoid people for 1-2 days, then be cleared for a (15-minute, outside, socially distanced) visit to the Care Center (nursing home). I know a campus resident ("independent living," i.e. apartments/patio homes) who must have been tested 6 times by now. One day her husband had a seizure and that was the last time she saw him for 6 months. I'm pretty sure end-of-life visits have been quietly arranged under a case-by-case compassionate arrangement, but generally speaking, visits were shut down for months, and now hoops to visit residents are formidable.

Some weeks she forgoes her visit to give another family member the opportunity to make the same tightly constrained visit to her husband. So far there have been no new cases in the nursing home for at least a month, after 9 people died with Covid during a severe spell.

Perhaps across the country many other people are subjected to multiple tests as a result of similar containment efforts. The nursing home here is probably more vigilant than most, but many others must have similar regimens in place. The pattern here has been to open something up a little bit, wait 2 weeks, then open something else up a little bit. But the only thing that allows these small experiments to take place is ubiquitous testing of residents, visitors and perhaps even more importantly, staff members.
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Old 18th October 2020, 03:57 PM   #2253
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
1) There are people who used to wear them but have become complacent or influenced not to wear them. They just need a little nudge, a little peer pressure, an excuse to wear them despite peer pressure not to.
One thing that seemed to impress my MAGA nephew was the observation that wearing masks is simply good manners when your 96-year-old grandmother is sharing the room.
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Old 18th October 2020, 05:39 PM   #2254
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
To answer my own question, the United States does appear to have the highest per capita test rate in the world.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/f...r-thousand-map

ETA: On further review, Denmark and Iceland have higher testing rates. (The link above is to a map of the world, not a table, so I missed those countries the first time around.)
According to Worldometer’s collation of data, US is 20th in the world per capita. There are quite a few micro-countries ahead of them, but UAE, Denmark, Singapore, Israel and the UK are also (and Hong Kong). I picked a cut off of 5m people. If you set that cut off at 70m to ignore all of them, then US is doing best.
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Old 18th October 2020, 05:57 PM   #2255
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
1) There are people who used to wear them but have become complacent or influenced not to wear them. They just need a little nudge, a little peer pressure, an excuse to wear them despite peer pressure not to.

2) There are TV ads now telling people to wear them. Those could be expanded.

3) If Biden was smart (maybe some of his advisors will give this advice) he'd do more with the stats we are now seeing: He could show that the rate of COVID was directly related to various events.

4) Testing and contact tracing might also convince some people to wear masks.
Possibly some could be influenced. But I think most will just dig their heels in unless someone in their own personal circle actually becomes seriously ill or dies. But for the most part, once someone forms an opinion and they become emotionally invested in that opinion, they don't change it. Especially if their echo chamber reinforces it.
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Old 18th October 2020, 06:05 PM   #2256
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Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
According to Worldometer’s collation of data, US is 20th in the world per capita. There are quite a few micro-countries ahead of them, but UAE, Denmark, Singapore, Israel and the UK are also (and Hong Kong). I picked a cut off of 5m people. If you set that cut off at 70m to ignore all of them, then US is doing best.
There is some discrepancy in data between the site I linked and worldometer. On the site I linked, the US has higher testing rates than the UK. On worldometer, they're switched. Israel is indeed ahead, including on the site I linked. With the world map, I couldn't get a list, and some small countries just weren't covered by my mouse movements.


But, the US does a lot of testing, and yet still has terrible outcomes in the death department. I don't think even Trump could spin the number of deaths as being a result of testing.
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Old 18th October 2020, 06:11 PM   #2257
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
There is some discrepancy in data between the site I linked and worldometer. On the site I linked, the US has higher testing rates than the UK. On worldometer, they're switched. Israel is indeed ahead, including on the site I linked. With the world map, I couldn't get a list, and some small countries just weren't covered by my mouse movements.


But, the US does a lot of testing, and yet still has terrible outcomes in the death department. I don't think even Trump could spin the number of deaths as being a result of testing.
Doesn't mean he wouldn't try.
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Old 18th October 2020, 07:46 PM   #2258
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
There is some discrepancy in data between the site I linked and worldometer. On the site I linked, the US has higher testing rates than the UK. On worldometer, they're switched. Israel is indeed ahead, including on the site I linked. With the world map, I couldn't get a list, and some small countries just weren't covered by my mouse movements.


But, the US does a lot of testing, and yet still has terrible outcomes in the death department. I don't think even Trump could spin the number of deaths as being a result of testing.
Yeah, deaths and long term illnesses are what is really important in the final analysis; without wanting to diminish the personal impacts of short-medium problems, everything else is perhaps just indicative of where policy changes should be made.
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Old 19th October 2020, 05:52 AM   #2259
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Given the possibility that Biden wins this election, is there anything that could be done to improve the disastrous handling of covid in the US? For example, January would be the earliest the Dems could implement policy, and what policies could make much difference at that point?
I... think that a good foundation for any discussion of this should, at the least, involve reviewing Biden's Covid Plan - aka The Biden Plan to Combat Coronavirus (COVID-19) and Prepare for Future Global Health Threats. It may not include everything that could be done, but it's well worth looking at what's actually being planned in terms of goals and action.
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Last edited by Aridas; 19th October 2020 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 19th October 2020, 06:09 AM   #2260
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Thanks, guys, for responding to my question about the future of covid management under Biden. I was afraid that anything done after January would be too little too late. I think they have to start work now on healing the divide in America, because ill-informed behavior is driving new cases, but it's hard when the election is consuming their efforts and resources. Winning the election and getting rid of Trump is of course the best initial covid management strategy.

Biden would have to clean house with all the departments and services that Trump has corrupted with his appointees as well.
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Old 19th October 2020, 06:23 AM   #2261
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President Trump mockingly warned at his rally in Nevada late Sunday that Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden would “listen to the scientists” if elected and there would be more lockdowns to curb the spread of the coronavirus.

Trump told attendees in Carson City that supporters of his opponent would surrender their “future to the virus,” saying: “He’s gonna want to lockdown.”

“He’ll listen to the scientists,” Trump added in a mocking tone before saying, “If I listened totally to the scientists, we would right now have a country that would be in a massive depression instead — we’re like a rocket ship. Take a look at the numbers.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/521638-...sts-if-elected
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Old 19th October 2020, 06:39 AM   #2262
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Sadly, Trumpanzees don't understand that because Trump didn't listen to the scientists, hundreds of thousands of people are dead AND the country is in an unnecessary recession.
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Old 19th October 2020, 11:16 AM   #2263
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Trump Tweets

Dr.Tony Fauci says we don’t allow him to do television, and yet I saw him last night on
@60Minutes, and he seems to get more airtime than anybody since the late, great, Bob Hope. All I ask of Tony is that he make better decisions. He said “no masks & let China in”. Also, Bad arm!

...P.S. Tony should stop wearing the Washington Nationals’ Mask for two reasons. Number one, it is not up to the high standards that he should be exposing. Number two, it keeps reminding me that Tony threw out perhaps the worst first pitch in the history of Baseball!
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Old 19th October 2020, 11:24 AM   #2264
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Which should one be more embarrassed by -- having a poor pitching arm, or being the worst president in American history?
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Old 19th October 2020, 12:45 PM   #2265
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Sadly, Trumpanzees don't understand that because Trump didn't listen to the scientists, hundreds of thousands of people are dead AND the country is in an unnecessary recession.
Remember that, inexplicably, a surprising number of Republicans actually did take issue with his handling of covid-19. This is unpresidented from Trump supporters, who normally seem fanatically loyal to the Führer.
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Old 19th October 2020, 01:06 PM   #2266
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Remember that, inexplicably, a surprising number of Republicans actually did take issue with his handling of covid-19. This is unpresidented from Trump supporters, who normally seem fanatically loyal to the Führer.
I think this is true, and it should cost him the election. It's pathetic that it took something as bad as this to lead him to his grand failing moment, though.
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Old 19th October 2020, 01:09 PM   #2267
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Which should one be more embarrassed by -- having a poor pitching arm, or being the worst president in American history?

He also can't name anyone who's on TV a lot who hasn't been dead for almost 20 years. He sounds like my father, complaining about "bands these days" like KISS and the Grateful Dead.
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:51 AM   #2268
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According to the BBC, it's not looking good:

Quote:
Cases have been trending upward for 48 states over the past week.
Quote:
As infections rise, hospital admissions have also risen in 39 states over the past two weeks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54603158

As usual, the President's response is to deny reality and to blame the messenger.

Quote:
"Fauci's a disaster," the president said in a campaign phone call that was overheard by reporters. "He's been here for 500 years," he said, adding: "People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots."
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Old 20th October 2020, 06:45 AM   #2269
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Yes, we here in the USA are ****** because the federal response is flaccid. Individual states are doing okay, the ones that are taking this serious. However, this is waning as the "red" areas of the states are blowing off mask mandates and not taking Covid-19 serious.

It's getting worse here in Oregon every day because the anti-maskers are screwing it all up. I wish that Kate Brown would take draconian measures and dole out serious punishment to blatant offenders and offending businesses. Round them up and send them to Florida!
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Old 20th October 2020, 06:48 AM   #2270
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
As usual, the President's response is to deny reality and to blame the messenger.
He is a living, cartoon super-villain. If he were in a movie, the movie would not sell because his actions would not be believable. Yet here we are, trapped in this weird reality where the USA is ruled by an evil idiot.
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Old 20th October 2020, 02:39 PM   #2271
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Senator Mitch McConnell told Republicans he has advised the White House against striking a stimulus deal with Democrats before the election.
https://nyti.ms/3lZourw
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:03 PM   #2272
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Yes, we here in the USA are ****** because the federal response is flaccid. Individual states are doing okay, the ones that are taking this serious. However, this is waning as the "red" areas of the states are blowing off mask mandates and not taking Covid-19 serious.

It's getting worse here in Oregon every day because the anti-maskers are screwing it all up. I wish that Kate Brown would take draconian measures and dole out serious punishment to blatant offenders and offending businesses. Round them up and send them to Florida!
Around here (Beaverton/Hillsboro/NW PDX people are really good about wearing masks and social distancing. Every so often I'll see someone who can't be bothered to wear a mask but the vast majority to.

My SIL has a Trumper neighbor who acts like there is no virus at all. She and her husband still travel as usual. She said that she thinks hospitals are being paid to report any deaths as Covid deaths.
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:06 PM   #2273
thaiboxerken
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It's rather bad here in Oregon City. Lot's of Trumpanzees around. Many people don't wear masks, and when they are in places that "enforce" mask-mandates, they have their noses sticking out. My partner calls it dick-nose and she's vocal when she sees one.
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:08 PM   #2274
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
It's rather bad here in Oregon City. Lot's of Trumpanzees around. Many people don't wear masks, and when they are in places that "enforce" mask-mandates, they have their noses sticking out. My partner calls it dick-nose and she's vocal when she sees one.
Oregon City? My condolences.
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:20 PM   #2275
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
My SIL has a Trumper neighbor who acts like there is no virus at all. She and her husband still travel as usual. She said that she thinks hospitals are being paid to report any deaths as Covid deaths.

This idea is also doing the rounds in Australia, about Australian hospitals. One of my Sons-in-Law said that this was happening in Victoria.



I honestly can't work out why Government's would make themselves look bad by fudging death numbers upwards?


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Old 20th October 2020, 03:32 PM   #2276
Mader Levap
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
I honestly can't work out why Government's would make themselves look bad by fudging death numbers upwards?
Since when conspiracy theories make sense...
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:37 PM   #2277
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
This idea is also doing the rounds in Australia, about Australian hospitals. One of my Sons-in-Law said that this was happening in Victoria.



I honestly can't work out why Government's would make themselves look bad by fudging death numbers upwards?


Norm
I should be used to just how stupid people can be by now, but somehow, they just keep surprising me.
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:39 PM   #2278
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
This idea is also doing the rounds in Australia, about Australian hospitals. One of my Sons-in-Law said that this was happening in Victoria.



I honestly can't work out why Government's would make themselves look bad by fudging death numbers upwards?


Norm
It's not governments. It's the New World Order. It's the Deep State. It's the cabal of elite pedovores. It's Obama who remains in control of all who dwell in the shadows.
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:44 PM   #2279
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
It's not governments. It's the New World Order. It's the Deep State. It's the cabal of elite pedovores. It's Obama who remains in control of all who dwell in the shadows.
It's KILLLLLARRRRRYYYYYYYY!
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Old 20th October 2020, 04:25 PM   #2280
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
my SIL has a Trumper neighbor who acts like there is no virus at all. She and her husband still travel as usual. She said that she thinks hospitals are being paid to report any deaths as Covid deaths.
Sometimes all you can do is shake your head.
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