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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , joe biden

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Old 30th August 2020, 01:55 PM   #81
rockysmith76
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Would you care to give me one single instance where the Democrat candidate has received the minority popular vote but won the election?
I can see that you want to tweak the system to favor your side, the electoral college has been the system forever, getting a winning candidate or stop crying about losing, doesnt seem that hard.
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Old 30th August 2020, 01:58 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Would you care to give me one single instance where the Democrat candidate has received the minority popular vote but won the election?
Feed, troll, don't, and so on.
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Old 30th August 2020, 01:59 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
When it ever does, then you can see whether or not they think it's 'dandy'. Until then it's nothing but mudslinging.
I just read rockysmith76's post over again and I now think that in the original post he's talking about if Biden wins i.e. what will the dems(sic) cry about when Biden wins ergo because the dems is always crying about something. I could be wrong, tho.
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Old 30th August 2020, 02:01 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That's from 2017. It's scary to think Trump might win. You find comfort in it?
Yes, it's scary to think Trump might win. I don't find comfort in that (seemed obvious, but let me state it just in case).

I find some comfort in knowing that I can largely ignore pundits.
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Old 30th August 2020, 02:03 PM   #85
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"LOL well would you be as upset if situation was reversed?"

The situation wouldn't work if it were "reversed" that's the whole point. The Republicans need an unfair system they can manipulate at best, outright cheat at worst. The Democrats don't need too. The Republicans haven't won the popular vote with a non-incumbent President since Bush the senior. It's been 22 years since the American people actually voted a Republican President into office.

"Fairness" as a concept has become a parody of itself at this point.
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Old 30th August 2020, 02:04 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
"herding"?

What does that mean when it comes to polling?
Herding happens when (most) pollsters either don't release outliers, or massage their polls to better align with the average poll.

The 2017 French presidential election is a good example.
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Old 30th August 2020, 02:10 PM   #87
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
I can see that you want to tweak the system to favor your side, the electoral college has been the system forever, getting a winning candidate or stop crying about losing, doesnt seem that hard.
In other words, no, you can't so you resort to the above nonsense. Fair and democratic elections don't have 'sides'.

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Feed, troll, don't, and so on.
True.
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Old 30th August 2020, 02:22 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Pity. Seems the Lincoln Project also requires you to be in a US State.

Any other way for a foreign national to make a difference before this election?
Donate to Trump, then blow a whistle on yourself.
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Old 30th August 2020, 02:58 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I do keep reminding myself that while chances are disconcertingly high he'll win another term, there's also a chance he might lose. I suppose we are all just demoralised after the Brexit and Trump victories in 2016, and from seeing his approval rating hold steady at 40-42% despite everything.
Trump is actually doing really poorly. Biden's lead margin is much higher than Clinton at this point in 2016. Trump's situation in key Rust Belt swing states is even worse. I'm not saying get over confident but he's in a bad way. Also, a 40-42 percent approval rating is a really bad thing for a president going into an election. People fixate on 2016 but seem to forget 2018. Trump lost the suburbs then and you don't really hear anything about Republican's taking back the house. He didn't lose the Senate but it was a much tougher map for Democrats than it is this year.
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Old 30th August 2020, 04:11 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
People fixate on 2016 but seem to forget 2018.
Because nothing happened in 2018 and the "Blue Wave! Blue Wave!" narrative is, was, and always will be across the board nonsense.

The opposition party almost always makes gains in the midterm. It's not a symbol of anything. It's a slight re-balancing of the scales following the more popular and passionate Presidential election at best, a political dead cat bounce at worst.

Two years after Barack Obama was elected for his first term the Republicans gained 6 Senate seats, 63 House seats, 6 Gubernatorial Seats, and flipped the balance of power in 20 state legislature houses.

Two years after Barack Obama was elected for his second term the Republicans gained 9 Senate seats, 12 seats, and 2 Gubernatorial Seats.

Two years after Donald Trump was elected for his first term the Democrats lost 2 Senate seats, gained 41 House seats, 7 Gubernatorial Seats.
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Old 30th August 2020, 04:15 PM   #91
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Check this out:

Quote:
More Trump voters said they were loyal to President Donald Trump than they were to the Republican Party, according to a new HuffPost/YouGov poll.

Some 49% of Republican and Republican-leaning independents who voted for Trump in 2016 said they consider themselves more supporters of Trump than of the Republican Party. Just 19% said they were more supporters of the party, with another 28% saying they were supporters of both.

About 61% of Republican and Republican-leaning independent voters said that they would be more likely to support Trump over congressional Republicans if they had a disagreement; only 13% said they would side with the party members.
Holy mother of dog lol.

I know polls aren't everything and I imagine in reality the ones who support both Trump and the GOP is a larger portion than revealed in this paper, but that's a significant chunk of voters even from a cursory survey.

Trumpism is a cult.
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Old 30th August 2020, 04:19 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Because nothing happened in 2018 and the "Blue Wave! Blue Wave!" narrative is, was, and always will be across the board nonsense.

The opposition party almost always makes gains in the midterm. It's not a symbol of anything. It's a slight re-balancing of the scales following the more popular and passionate Presidential election at best, a political dead cat bounce at worst.

Two years after Barack Obama was elected for his first term the Republicans gained 6 Senate seats, 63 House seats, 6 Gubernatorial Seats, and flipped the balance of power in 20 state legislature houses.

Two years after Barack Obama was elected for his second term the Republicans gained 9 Senate seats, 12 seats, and 2 Gubernatorial Seats.

Two years after Donald Trump was elected for his first term the Democrats lost 2 Senate seats, gained 41 House seats, 7 Gubernatorial Seats.
You're discounting both the significance of the places where Dems won and the impact of the Gubernatorial seats. Gaining the State Houses in the swing states has nullified the ability of Trump/Republicans to engage in voter suppression. The House seats the Dems flipped were not traditionally swing seats (consider Orange County in California and Pennsylvania).
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Old 30th August 2020, 05:18 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
"herding"?

What does that mean when it comes to polling?
This seems to be a pretty good explanation:

Quote:
Herding
With the high-stakes surrounding elections, pollsters feel increased pressure to accurately capture who will win an election. Additionally with multiple pollsters releasing results on the same basic questions at about the same time, political pollsters want to avoid being seen as the one firm that got it wrong. To avoid raising questions regarding the accuracy of their results, some political pollsters adjust their findings to match or closely approximate the results of other polls—a practice known as “herding.”

“Herding” specifically refers to the possibility that pollsters use existing poll results to help adjust the presentation of their own poll results. "Herding” strategies can range from making statistical adjustments to ensure that the released results appear similar to existing polls to deciding whether or not to release the poll depending on how the results compare to existing polls.
Link
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 30th August 2020, 05:21 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
This is just some bull **** Zogby push poll. Of course, what's he's doing is building a counter argument for when he loses and the Democrats point out that the election results matched the polling data. He can now claim to his base that he has alternate polling data.
I think this is massive overthinking. This belongs to the "Trump is playing 5-dimensional chess" school of thought.

The reason Donald Trump posts the best poll results that he can find is because he believes it makes him look popular. He almost certainly believes the best polls for him and almost certainly believes polls which show the opposite are "fake news".
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 30th August 2020, 05:46 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Check this out:



Holy mother of dog lol.

I know polls aren't everything and I imagine in reality the ones who support both Trump and the GOP is a larger portion than revealed in this paper, but that's a significant chunk of voters even from a cursory survey.

Trumpism is a cult.
It IS a cult. It's a cult of an authoritarian figure. It's no different than we see with religious cult leaders like Jim Jones, David Miscavige or political authoritarian leaders like Peron, Mussolini, Stalin or Franco. If Trump thought he could get away with it, he'd do exactly what Charles I did and dissolve Parliament/ Congress and rule without them. There is no Republican Party...at least as we once knew it. There is only the Trump Party.
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Old 30th August 2020, 05:50 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Trump will do it within the next two weeks this time....
That took me a second. The word "within" threw me off. He's never that precise.
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Old 30th August 2020, 05:55 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Herding happens when (most) pollsters either don't release outliers, or massage their polls to better align with the average poll.

The 2017 French presidential election is a good example.
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
This seems to be a pretty good explanation:

Link
Thanks.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 30th August 2020, 06:16 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Thanks.
You're welcome!
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 30th August 2020, 07:38 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
I can see that you want to tweak the system to favor your side, the electoral college has been the system forever, getting a winning candidate or stop crying about losing, doesnt seem that hard.
Your blithe acceptance of the status quo would fade away were your team to be at the same kind of disadvantage.

How is it fair if one side has, say, a 55-45 advantage because of a structural flaw? Dems don't want to reverse the scenario and then enjoy that same advantage; they want an even playing field.

In sports such an imbalance favoring one team would be considered practically criminal, and would be swiftly rectified. Why should it be different in politics?
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Old 30th August 2020, 07:42 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Because nothing happened in 2018 and the "Blue Wave! Blue Wave!" narrative is, was, and always will be across the board nonsense.

The opposition party almost always makes gains in the midterm.
True, it is common for the opposition party to do well in midterms...I think a lot of people who are labelling it a "blue wave" are doing so not only because of the number of seats won, but also in the total number of votes cast for democratic candidates. (And had the republicans not engaged in so much gerrymandering and voter suppression, the democrats probably would have picked up even more seats)


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Old 30th August 2020, 08:51 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
I can see that you want to tweak the system to favor your side, the electoral college has been the system forever, getting a winning candidate or stop crying about losing, doesnt seem that hard.
I am a king, chosen by God!

The divine right of kings is a tradition passed down through the ages, and only loser peasants want to change the divine way.

Twas ever thus!

That is your argument.

Care to make a better one?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 30th August 2020, 09:12 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Quote:
The fact that the Democrats once again insisted on the weakest candidate they could find...
How is Biden a weak candidate? He's a career politician with eight years of President-adjacent experience, who doesn't have the decades of virulent anti-Clinton throw-mud-at-the-wall-until-something-sticks, and he's male so the anti-female-in-power bias won't come into force against him. He's fit enough to not have to get a doctor to lie for him, is capable of reading from a teleprompter AND put in appropriate pauses and emotion because he comprehends the speech he's giving. He knows the party platform and speaks on it when interviewed.
Heck, I'd go even further and say that Biden is probably the BEST candidate the Democrats could have chosen to take on Stubby McBonespurs. (Note I said the best candidate, not the best person to actually BE president...)

- He's a moderate. Statistically/historically being a moderate usually gives an advantage to a candidate. The Republicans are of course resorting to the "Biden is a tool of the radical left", but outside Trump's base, its a difficult case to make. Had the democrats selected Comrade Sanders or Warren? Well, I doubt you'd get as much enthusiastic support from anti-Trump republicans

- Earlier I thought his age would be a detriment, but at this point, it seems to be a benefit, as he is cutting into the republican's base of senior voters (who are generally more reliable voters). And when Trump attacks Biden's age, it seems to have a negative effect on Trump's support with the Seniors

- He has strong support among minority voters. Granted, whomever the Democratic candidate was, they were probably always going to get the majority of black/latino voters. But Biden's support was strongest, so hopefully the Democrats can avoid the problem they had in 2016, when many minority voters decided to just sit out the election

Yes, he does have negatives. (Any candidate would have). But even his worst problem (his reputation for making gaffes) has been at least partly addressed by the Democrat's convention, when they covered his former stuttering problem, and made Biden seem like a sympathetic/empathetic person as a result.
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Old 31st August 2020, 01:05 AM   #103
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If I knew nothing about the two candidates going into the November Election, one single fact should be enough for anyone make a clear decision:

one Party has put out a plan on what they want to do, should they get elected, the other hasn't.
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Old 31st August 2020, 09:08 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
He's a career politician with eight years of President-adjacent experience, who doesn't have the decades of virulent anti-Clinton throw-mud-at-the-wall-until-something-sticks, and he's male so the anti-female-in-power bias won't come into force against him. He's fit enough to not have to get a doctor to lie for him, is capable of reading from a teleprompter AND put in appropriate pauses and emotion because he comprehends the speech he's giving. He knows the party platform and speaks on it when interviewed.
A set of basic background stuff that most major-party candidates for President have in common in some form is not a distinction of any of them as better or worse than each other. (And what you started with is seen negatively by a lot of people anyway.)

Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Heck, I'd go even further and say that Biden is probably the BEST candidate the Democrats could have chosen to take on Stubby McBonespurs. (Note I said the best candidate, not the best person to actually BE president...)

- He's a moderate. Statistically/historically being a moderate usually gives an advantage to a candidate.
Maybe there was some era of history when that was true, but definitely not the one we're in. The only two recent Democrat winners campaigned about how much they were going to change things; the rest who went with the "I'm a competent manager who'll never rock the boat" theme all lost. (Even Gore, who had previously been known largely for pushing environmental issues, went so dull in the campaign that he, Bush, and the debate moderators had a running joke about their answers to most questions usually being "about the same"; literally, those were the words they would say.)

I've seen some resistance to the fact that Obama & Clinton campaigned as lefties (even though it was right there in their campaign slogans & speeches), but, even without that, all you have is a case that only the moderate/centrist approach has been tried lately and its results were mixed. That's not an "advantage".

On top of that, the idea of how that's supposed to work in theory (nevermind the fact that we can't theorize our way out of the fact that it doesn't work anyway) is pulling votes from people who might otherwise have voted Republican. But he has a whopping 5% of self-identified Republicans saying they'll vote for him, which is less than Hillary. (It's also less than Obama either time and he wasn't even trying to go for that angle.) (And that's to say nothing about the fact that when the polls showed Bernie was better at this than Biden was, the bidenistas went all drooly & foamy about how that meant Bernie was evil for attracting the wrong kind of people whom we don't want voting for our side.)

And aside from that, if Biden is a "moderate", then he's the kind of "moderate" whose most enthusiastic and forceful efforts have been to push for massive cuts to Social Security and literally every other assistance program (complete with enraged clarification that he really meant not just SS but everything that helps anybody because the suggestion that he'd limit his attack to just SS was so offensive to him), defend a Republican Supreme Court appointment against sexual harassment allegations, attack a woman for bringing up such allegations, give us a "crime" bill that just harasses minorities, protect segregation, give us new debt law attacking the poor (especially for the crime of trying to get less poor), tell young adults they don't really have any problems and their problems that he helped to create for them are their own fault anyway, openly promise Wall Street not to do anything they wouldn't like, and vote for every war in sight... and who flips his stances on things like Medicare For All after taking bribes from related corporations like medical insurance companies, picked a Wall-Street-approved candidate with a bit of a "law & order" attitude & history who laughed at the idea of not locking up a chunk of the (mostly minority) population for marijuana use, continues to openly downtalk the left at every opportunity between rounds of praising Republicans and talking about how proud he is to "work with" them, and had a convention that featured as many Republican speakers & talking points as they could fit while pointedly shutting out anybody to his left from within "his own party". If that's "moderate", it's a "moderate" right-winger. So he doesn't even live up to what his own alleged angle is supposed to be.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
- He has strong support among minority voters.
That was the narrative the media made out of it based on South Carolina. But that was because of SC's older black population, ignoring the not-so-old and the non-black.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Yes, he does have negatives. (Any candidate would have). But even his worst problem (his reputation for making gaffes)...
That's not his worst problem. It's just the one that some of his defenders focus on the most because it's superficial. His biggest problem is that he doesn't stand for anything; there's no argument on issues & policies that he really pushes for. Not even centrist ones. He sits back & waits for questions, then sometimes politicianizes & sometimes answers (and his answers are always to swat down lefty ideas as not worth taking seriously). But he takes no initiative to get people thinking & talking about what he wants to do & why it's important. That's even worse than moderateness/centrism; it's nothingness.

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Biden marks a return to stable, sensible government for the people, by the people, and of the people
What he marks is a return to the situation that produced Trump in the first place. That "of-by-for" thing makes a nifty quote but it doesn't describe how things really work or how people perceived them to work when they voted last time to get away from the status-quo.
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Old 31st August 2020, 09:58 AM   #105
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Have We Reached Peak Biden?

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't need this, sorry for sharing the distress but it can't be ignored.

It's okay. I'm totally into the whole sharing of distress thing.

I looked at the Presidential Polls and noticed that, despite all the wild ups
and downs between polls, polls conducted by the same organization in the
same state consistently showed the same percentage for Biden month after
month. For example, if Biden polled 49% in Michigan in May, then he polled
49% in Michigan in June, and 49% in Michigan in July as well.

My personal theory: Anyone who cannot stand Donald Trump has decided
to vote for Biden. No doubts, no uncertainty, totally committed to getting
that man out of office for good.

You may have also notice a considerable number of undecided voters in those
same polls, around ten percent. Well, Moore mentioned that, so far, sixty million
people will vote for Trump, which leaves me with a puzzle, as I expect sixty five
million votes for Trump at the very minimum.

Who might all those undecided voters be?

Moore calls for Democrats to bring a hundred voters to the polls. But what if,
like in an Asimov novel, all those undecided voters really just look to someone
with an R in front of their name to vote for.

I imagine a cartoon with Moore as the driver saying to the passenger,
"So... Who are you going to vote for in this election?"
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Old 31st August 2020, 10:00 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"LOL well would you be as upset if situation was reversed?"

The situation wouldn't work if it were "reversed" that's the whole point. The Republicans need an unfair system they can manipulate at best, outright cheat at worst. The Democrats don't need too. The Republicans haven't won the popular vote with a non-incumbent President since Bush the senior. It's been 22 years since the American people actually voted a Republican President into office.

"Fairness" as a concept has become a parody of itself at this point.
32 not 22.
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:04 AM   #107
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538 has Biden's margin at 7.7 points. That's the narrowest it's been in a long time.

I'll be damned if I can figure out why though. Recent polling isn't distiguishable from 2 weeks ago, 4 weeks ago.
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:06 AM   #108
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Biden's speech he just gave was excellent. It totally dispelled the "he's got dementia" and "he's weak" nonsense. He was everything that Trump is not.
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:16 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
538 has Biden's margin at 7.7 points. That's the narrowest it's been in a long time.

I'll be damned if I can figure out why though. Recent polling isn't distiguishable from 2 weeks ago, 4 weeks ago.
You have to treat political trends like the stock market, the numbers aren't meaningful if you sit there and watch them go up and down, you have to step back and look at trends.
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:18 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Your blithe acceptance of the status quo would fade away were your team to be at the same kind of disadvantage.

How is it fair if one side has, say, a 55-45 advantage because of a structural flaw? Dems don't want to reverse the scenario and then enjoy that same advantage; they want an even playing field.

In sports such an imbalance favoring one team would be considered practically criminal, and would be swiftly rectified. Why should it be different in politics?
At its' extreme, our system could give the Presidency to a candidate with 22% of the vote over another with 78%.
Democrats would be killing it if the imbalance were only on par with 55-45 against.
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:23 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Biden's speech he just gave was excellent. It totally dispelled the "he's got dementia" and "he's weak" nonsense. He was everything that Trump is not.

Cue another round of Trump calling for drug tests before the debates.
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:27 AM   #112
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The Electoral College has a 7% failure rate and the failure rate always benefits one side (in modern politics using modern definitions of the parties lest any semantic chowderhead bring Rutherford B. Hayes into this...)

We've had 53 Superbowls. Imagine if, by some quirk in the scoring, ~4 of those Superbowls had been awarded to the team that had fewer points at the end of the game and whenever that anomaly occurred the AFC, team always got the win, never the NFC team.

Yeah... we would have changed that quirk by now. But it's not football, just the continued existence of the country as a stable western style democracy so let's not be dramatic about it or anything.
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:29 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Quote:
Heck, I'd go even further and say that Biden is probably the BEST candidate the Democrats could have chosen to take on Stubby McBonespurs. (Note I said the best candidate, not the best person to actually BE president...)

- He's a moderate. Statistically/historically being a moderate usually gives an advantage to a candidate.
Maybe there was some era of history when that was true, but definitely not the one we're in.
Actually it is still true.

In 2016, Trump was actually seen as the more moderate candiate

From: Gallup (from 2016)
Donald Trump's political views, in the eyes of U.S. registered voters, are the least conservative of GOP presidential candidates in recent history....with less than half of voters (47%) describing him as conservative or very conservative. ...U.S. voters are most likely to describe Clinton as liberal (31%) or very liberal (27%).

Remember, when Trump came on the scene, he claimed he was against the Iraq war, and was in favor of gay rights. He didn't talk about privatizing social security, but he did talk about closing tax loopholes. Now WE as skeptics can see the lies... but to the more gullible voter? He probably seemed like a moderate.

Quote:
The only two recent Democrat winners campaigned about how much they were going to change things; the rest who went with the "I'm a competent manager who'll never rock the boat" theme all lost.
First of all, keep in mind that I said that a moderate has an advantage, not that they will always win. Outside factors can still have an impact... scandals, a candidates personality, incumbency, etc.

Secondly, its not just a case of "how moderate is the democrat" but also "how moderate is the republican"... a moderate democrat doesn't really have much of an advantage against a moderate republican.

And as for the 2 recent democratic winners? Yes, Obama talked about "change", and yes, voters viewed him as "liberal", but he was up against McCain and Romney, who were seen as just as conservative as he was liberal, so there was no real advantage for him.

Quote:
On top of that, the idea of how that's supposed to work in theory (nevermind the fact that we can't theorize our way out of the fact that it doesn't work anyway) is pulling votes from people who might otherwise have voted Republican. But he has a whopping 5% of self-identified Republicans saying they'll vote for him, which is less than Hillary.
First of all, not sure where you're getting your '5%' Republicans for Biden figure from... I've seen figures putting it at around 11%'. (See: Newsweek)

Secondly, you need to look at more than just republicans supporting Biden... you also have independents (who might either be complete fence sitters, or who might lean republican but will entertain voting for Biden.)

Lastly, the issue is not just republicans switching sides... one of the major advantages in picking a moderate is that it is less likely to energize the opposing side's base. The current republican efforts to demonize Biden as a "tool of the left" is not necessarily to appeal to independents and moderates, its to encourage the MAGAchuds to actually get out and vote.
Quote:
And aside from that, if Biden is a "moderate", then he's the kind of "moderate" whose most enthusiastic and forceful efforts have been to push for massive cuts to Social Security and literally every other assistance program...
Psst... I'm going to let you in on a little secret...

Sometimes, the political environment changes. Yeah, I know... shocking, isn't it.

Oh, and by the way... are you referring to This?

From: Washington Post
Sanders cites a newspaper clip from Jan. 11, 1983, that says, “Biden suggested a gradual increase in the retirement age would help improve the Social Security system.” This was not a controversial position at the time....The broad outlines of the plan was recommended by the National Commission on Social Security Reform and is believed to have strengthened the long-term health of Social Security. Sanders, in 1999, praised the 1983 law an example of bipartisan cooperation.

Biden also at one point tried to freeze social security, but that was not targeted only at social security but also impacted things like the military as well.
Quote:
...defend a Republican Supreme Court appointment against sexual harassment allegations...
yes he did... and he has actually gone on record indicating that it was a mistake. I doubt he would make the same mistake again.
Quote:
...give us a "crime" bill that just harasses minorities
Actually Biden's actions as a senator also included funding for firearms background checks, anti-violence against women and addiction treatment.

Oh, and should I mention that Sanders was an eventual supporter of the bill?

See: VOX

Quote:
...openly promise Wall Street not to do anything they wouldn't like...
Ummmm... Biden has said that he's going to increase corporate taxes. Pretty sure that "wall street" won't like that.

I think I'll just skip the rest of your rants. Its nothing but empty rhetoric.
Quote:
Quote:
- He has strong support among minority voters.
That was the narrative the media made out of it based on South Carolina. But that was because of SC's older black population...
Actually he had wide-spread support from black voters across many states, not just south carolina.

From: Politico
Biden neared or exceeded that mark in the South on Tuesday, in Texas (58 percent), Virginia (60 percent), North Carolina (62 percent) and Alabama (72 percent). The results in Texas and North Carolina were especially notable given the prevalence of early voting in those states, where hundreds of thousands of ballots were cast before Biden’s South Carolina surge.

Quote:
That's not his worst problem. It's just the one that some of his defenders focus on the most because it's superficial. His biggest problem is that he doesn't stand for anything
That's only a problem for people like BernieBros who are detached from reality.

The fact is, Biden has a set of policies... he plans to raise taxes on corporations and the wealthy. He plans to spend more on infrastructure and green energy. He want to provide at least some free post-secondary education. The fact that he's not some foaming-at-the-mouth Sanders-type doesn't mean that he will not attempt to follow through with those plans.
Quote:
What he marks is a return to the situation that produced Trump in the first place. That "of-by-for" thing makes a nifty quote but it doesn't describe how things really work or how people perceived them to work when they voted last time to get away from the status-quo.
You talk about how "things really work", ignoring the fact that all the wonderful plans put forward by someone like Sanders would never ever pass Congress.
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:34 AM   #114
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YouTube analysis of 2016 and 2020 election polling.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:36 AM   #115
jnelso99
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
538 has Biden's margin at 7.7 points. That's the narrowest it's been in a long time.

I'll be damned if I can figure out why though. Recent polling isn't distiguishable from 2 weeks ago, 4 weeks ago.
At this point, national polls are meaningless. It doesn’t matter if more Americans overall approve or disapprove of a candidate, as shown by the 2016 elections. Just pay attention to polling in swing states if you must pay attention to any polls at all.
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:37 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by jnelso99 View Post
At this point, national polls are meaningless. It doesn’t matter if more Americans overall approve or disapprove of a candidate, as shown by the 2016 elections. Just pay attention to polling in swing states if you must pay attention to any polls at all.
"Trump didn't win America. He won 3 counties in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania." - Some pundit who's name I can't remember.
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Old 31st August 2020, 11:43 AM   #117
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
YouTube analysis of 2016 and 2020 election polling.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 31st August 2020, 12:10 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
...one Party has put out a plan on what they want to do, should they get elected, the other hasn't.
As of Aug 23, they both have plans out now:

Joe’s Vision
https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/

Trump’s 2nd Term Agenda
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/t...ghting-for-you
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Old 31st August 2020, 01:01 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by TruthJonsen View Post
As of Aug 23, they both have plans out now:

Trump’s 2nd Term Agenda
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/t...ghting-for-you
That's not a plan.
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Old 31st August 2020, 01:19 PM   #120
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
That's not a plan.
Not only is it not a plan, many of them are things he's actively doing things against! For example, "Continue to Lead the World in Access to the Cleanest Drinking Water and Cleanest Air" when he's rolled back environmental laws that protect our rivers and waterways from being polluted. His payroll tax cut proposal would deplete Social Security funding yet he says he would "Protect Social Security and Medicare". He says he would "Bring Violent Extremist Groups Like ANTIFA to Justice" but he makes no mention of violent right-wing extremist groups.

Quote:
Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020. Second, terrorism in the United States will likely increase over the next year in response to several factors. One of the most concerning is the 2020 U.S. presidential election, before and after which extremists may resort to violence, depending on the outcome of the election.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escala...-united-states
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