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Tags Amy Coney Barrett , obituaries , Ruth Bader Ginsburg , Supreme Court issues , Supreme Court justices

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Old 18th September 2020, 08:00 PM   #121
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Quote:
Time for Democrats to blast the airwaves with the implication of a 6-3 Supreme Court.
Why? The only audience that matters are the current senators, specially the Republican senators who absolutely want whatever unqualified arch conservative they can find.
I think the argument is that by pointing out how people will suffer under a republican-controlled supreme court, they will either 1) Increase the number of people who will vote democrat in the next election (it won't give them the supreme court, but make give them more elected positions.), or 2) give some republican senators second thoughts about confirming a Trumpian replacement, because it might affect them in future races (a long shot admittedly)

Quote:
I like the idea of the quorum roadblock in the judiciary committee, but let's be real: Senate rules can change.
They can, but I don't think they can change on the fly. (Can't they only be done at the start of a session?)
Quote:
I have no hope at all on this issue.
Your pessimism is understandable.
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Old 18th September 2020, 08:09 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Is there a material difference between a no vote and not having the vote?
Yes. Because if it is a qualified applicant and vetted by the senate without finding problems, then the senators will have to justify (at least to their voters) why they rejected a nominee.

Furthermore, if a candidate is rejected, it would give the president the opportunity to nominate an alternate.
Quote:
ETA: the government continuing to enact policy up to the last day in office sounds like the fair process.
It is only fair if it is applied consistently. Either stop all judicial nominations shortly before or after an election, or let them all proceed.
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Old 18th September 2020, 08:15 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Yes. Because if it is a qualified applicant and vetted by the senate without finding problems, then the senators will have to justify (at least to their voters) why they rejected a nominee.

Furthermore, if a candidate is rejected, it would give the president the opportunity to nominate an alternate.

It is only fair if it is applied consistently. Either stop all judicial nominations shortly before or after an election, or let them all proceed.
It sounds like the senate found the nomination process that worked for them as they are entitled to by the constitution. And they have to justify that decision, too. They denied their consent as is their prerogative.

The whole time it seemed pretty clear that it was the senate not giving consent....they were not actually delaying but pursuing their opposition strategy.

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Old 18th September 2020, 08:19 PM   #124
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Anyone now appointed, and Trump's two appointees, should all be immediately impeached in 2121 as having being selected to protect a criminal and his treasonous party.
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Old 18th September 2020, 08:19 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
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Given the fact that much of the country is populated/controlled by people who are rather awful themselves? (You know, the type that proudly fly the racist confederate flag and don't quite understand the basics of biology)

But hey! It would only be minorities and woman in the deep south that would be oppressed as a result! That's not a big deal!
Why would the circuit court be worse at protecting people in the circuit than the supreme court?
Many laws go through a state's court system, and the judges in those courts might either be appointed by the governor (who often gets power through things like voter suppression) or elected to office (where they may have been elected by appealing to the angry white voter).

If the legislature of the state of Oklaexabama passes a law that says "you can hunt minorities for sport", the state court may say "Yup, that law is valid" (because the judges appeal to the majority in the state). Without the supreme court as the final arbiter (with judges drawn from a wide range of backgrounds) such laws might stand.
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Old 18th September 2020, 08:22 PM   #126
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Anyone now appointed, and Trump's two appointees, should all be immediately impeached in 2121 as having being selected to protect a criminal and his treasonous party.
I would hope they'd be impeached long before that. Maybe in 2021. I don't think any of them will live to 2121

Unless we find out that Gorsuch and Drunky McRapeface are actually immortals and need to be beheaded (highlander style).

ETA: I would be all for the removal of Trump's appointees. However, I think conviction/removal in the senate requires a 2/3rds vote. Even if the Democrats manage to control the senate after the next election, I doubt they'd get enough seats to remove them from the court by themselves, and I can't see any republican senators joining with the Democrats to remove them.
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Old 18th September 2020, 08:31 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It sounds like the senate republicans in the senate found the nomination process that worked for them loud minority evangelicals who are bigots and want to oppress women, gays and minorities
Fixed it for you.
Quote:
as they are entitled to by the constitution.
And once again, as I have explained before... the fact that an action may be "within the rules" does not mean that it is beneficial to the country as a whole to engage in those actions.

If the democrats decide to follow the Republican example and engage in every possible dirty trick, then the system will probably come crashing down.
Quote:
The whole time it seemed pretty clear that it was the senate not giving consent....they were not actually delaying but pursuing their opposition strategy.
Quit trying to bob the thread.
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Old 18th September 2020, 08:36 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Probably Romney, maybe Sasse and Alexander on principle. Also probably everybody who's in a close race for re-election -- like S. Collins. It wouldn't surprise me if they went to McConnell quietly and said "Don't do this to us."
What would do you live in? Trump, once again, will be taking all credit for the hard work done by McConnell who will push this through in record time. There is no question of that. They will have been well aware that Ginsberg was about to die and all their plans are prepared. You have the McConnell pledge on that.
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Old 18th September 2020, 08:40 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Anyone now appointed, and Trump's two appointees, should all be immediately impeached in 2121 2021 as having being selected to protect a criminal and his treasonous party.
I like that option.
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Old 18th September 2020, 08:48 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Many laws go through a state's court system, and the judges in those courts might either be appointed by the governor (who often gets power through things like voter suppression) or elected to office (where they may have been elected by appealing to the angry white voter).

If the legislature of the state of Oklaexabama passes a law that says "you can hunt minorities for sport", the state court may say "Yup, that law is valid" (because the judges appeal to the majority in the state). Without the supreme court as the final arbiter (with judges drawn from a wide range of backgrounds) such laws might stand.
The circuit court is drawn very similarly to the supreme court.

Though by statute it has to go to the supreme court? But that seems like a legislative fix. Also, nothing stops congress and the president from stripping the supreme and Lower courts of various jurisdiction.

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Old 18th September 2020, 08:50 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Fixed it for you.

And once again, as I have explained before... the fact that an action may be "within the rules" does not mean that it is beneficial to the country as a whole to engage in those actions.

If the democrats decide to follow the Republican example and engage in every possible dirty trick, then the system will probably come crashing down.

Quit trying to bob the thread.
I note my continued disagreement with your position but will not debate it further.
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Old 18th September 2020, 08:55 PM   #132
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[quote=a_unique_person;13228614]
Quote:
Probably Romney, maybe Sasse and Alexander on principle. Also probably everybody who's in a close race for re-election -- like S. Collins. It wouldn't surprise me if they went to McConnell quietly and said "Don't do this to us."
What "hard work" by Moscow Mitch? All he had to do with previous candidates was not let Garland's vote to go forward, and to not probe into Drunky McRapeface's background. Sounds pretty lazy to me.

Quote:
who will push this through in record time.
That Moscow Mitch will push a Trump nominee through is a given.

The question is, will he push it through before the election or after the election, in the "Lame duck" session after the election but before the inauguration. I think its possible that some senators will want to wait until after the election, since doing so before the election would risk giving those senators at risk of losing (such as Collins or Gardner) a bigger headache. And remember, the majority of voters opposed the nomination of Drunk McRapeface....

I can't think of much benefit to pushing the nomination through pre-election... they already have the bigoted evangelicals solidly behind Trump (and they know he'll nominate another wing-nut).
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Old 18th September 2020, 08:59 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
What would do you live in? Trump, once again, will be taking all credit for the hard work done by McConnell who will push this through in record time. There is no question of that. They will have been well aware that Ginsberg was about to die and all their plans are prepared. You have the McConnell pledge on that.
I don't know, Trump looked genuinely stunned to hear that she died. See Joe Morgue's comments.


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post13228490

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Old 18th September 2020, 09:07 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I don't know, Trump looked genuinely stunned to hear that she died. See Joe Morgue's comments.


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post13228490
Don't care. I'm uninterested in such sentiments from a sociopathic white supremacist.
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Old 18th September 2020, 09:21 PM   #135
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They will try to replace he with the indecent haste expected of an indecent party.

RIP RBG. Your innate and compassionate wisdom will be missed, especially in the cluster-**** that is the present day USA.
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Old 18th September 2020, 09:27 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Nominating a replacement for Liberal Saint RBG, while being hypocrites about for refusing to vote on Obama's nominee, will troll the libs.

That's all the motivation to do it they need.
...and Bingo was his name-o.
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Old 18th September 2020, 09:27 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
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There is no question of that. They will have been well aware that Ginsberg was about to die and all their plans are prepared.
I don't know, Trump looked genuinely stunned to hear that she died. See Joe Morgue's comments.
I don't think it is contrary for someone to think "this person will die in the next year or 2" yet still be taken by surprise when it does happen. After all RBG had been through some medical treatments recently but I don't think there was anything to suggest her death was imminent.


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Old 18th September 2020, 09:30 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Don't care. I'm uninterested in such sentiments from a sociopathic white supremacist.
Agreed. I was merely remarking that Trump did not look at all prepared. Of course, it's Trump. When has he ever been prepared?

And Joe's comment is funny.

Quote:
ETA: For what it's worth at this point the expression on his face in the picture in the CNN article does seem to be some recognizable negative human emotion. At least he didn't start giggling like a schoolgirl and pop a boner.
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Old 18th September 2020, 09:36 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I don't think it is contrary for someone to think "this person will die in the next year or 2" yet still be taken by surprise when it does happen. After all RBG had been through some medical treatments recently but I don't think there was anything to suggest her death was imminent.


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I still don't think they have a plan. McConnell probably scheduled a "plan meeting" with Trump a half a dozen times but Trump was 404. That doesn't mean that they won't "wing" some horrendous thing at us, unfortunately.
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Old 18th September 2020, 09:40 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I don't know, Trump looked genuinely stunned to hear that she died. See Joe Morgue's comments.


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post13228490
That's what I said. Trump plans nothing. Mitch will be right on top of this.
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Old 18th September 2020, 09:41 PM   #141
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Protecting America from the wacky progressive left is paramount
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Old 18th September 2020, 10:49 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Protecting America from the wacky progressive left is paramount
So you approve of Trump using Novichok to hasten RBG demise?
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Old 18th September 2020, 10:56 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Don't let McConnell find out. He'll send you a new one that you don't want.
That was very insenstive.
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Old 18th September 2020, 11:11 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I agree. It really shouldn't be a political thing at all, in an ideal world. But it's been political for a long time. Perhaps from the very beginning. Certainly since Roe v. Wade.
Everything is political. Especially the things that people say shouldn't be.
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Old 18th September 2020, 11:19 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
... ETA: I would be all for the removal of Trump's appointees. However, I think conviction/removal in the senate requires a 2/3rds vote. Even if the Democrats manage to control the senate after the next election, I doubt they'd get enough seats to remove them from the court by themselves, and I can't see any republican senators joining with the Democrats to remove them.
Yet another sound reason for tremendous pessimism. Watch now as everything anyone decent wishes to do is declared unconstitutional, and SCOTUS interprets the law of the land as being for white males only, and only those who pray and repeat orders properly.
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Old 18th September 2020, 11:22 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Earthborn View Post
Everything is political. Especially the things that people say shouldn't be.
But not all things should be partisan; say, the basic idea of equality before the law (even if the DoI is very poorly argued). My point being that "political" has alternate meanings here, and the criticism is that SCOTUS should not be partisan, much less a group of ignorant bigots.
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Old 18th September 2020, 11:32 PM   #147
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Trump actually surprised me in showing some actual grace upon hearing of RBG's death. He didn't make a disgusting, nasty, inappropriate remark for once.
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Old 19th September 2020, 12:12 AM   #148
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https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/statu...04888963428357

Quote:
The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president.
There he's directly quoting McConnell.

And here's MConnell's statement: https://twitter.com/vrexford/status/1307123623107481600

Basically, it was right not to elect someone until Trump was in because there was a Republican majority, therefore that's what the people wanted, and it's right to elect someone now before the election because there's a Republican majority and therefore that's what the people want.
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Old 19th September 2020, 02:14 AM   #149
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Very sad news.

My condolences to Americans of all political views who care about democracy and the rule of law.
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Old 19th September 2020, 02:24 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trump actually surprised me in showing some actual grace upon hearing of RBG's death. He didn't make a disgusting, nasty, inappropriate remark for once.
Yet....,
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Old 19th September 2020, 02:45 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Anyone now appointed, and Trump's two appointees, should all be immediately impeached in 2121 as having being selected to protect a criminal and his treasonous party.
I agree. But how many democratic congressmen and women have the backbone to do any such thing?

Also: One step closer to a seemingly inevitable civil war.

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Old 19th September 2020, 02:50 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trump actually surprised me in showing some actual grace upon hearing of RBG's death. He didn't make a disgusting, nasty, inappropriate remark for once.
Give him time.
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Old 19th September 2020, 02:53 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
If Trump loses he'll have even more reason to push through a vote. No way will he pass up that chance.
If he loses I think it's equally likely he just loses all interest in everything even vaguely work related and goes off in a pout to play golf or flee the country. Whether it's then pushed through in his name is a different matter.
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Old 19th September 2020, 02:53 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trump actually surprised me in showing some actual grace upon hearing of RBG's death. He didn't make a disgusting, nasty, inappropriate remark for once.
Dying is the best she's ever done for him, in his eyes. He's bigly grateful and happy he's now one step towards turning the US into a dictatorship.
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Old 19th September 2020, 02:55 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trump actually surprised me in showing some actual grace upon hearing of RBG's death. He didn't make a disgusting, nasty, inappropriate remark for once.
yet
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Old 19th September 2020, 03:33 AM   #156
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Here’s What HRC Said About Filling A Supreme Court Vacancy In 2016

“The president has a responsibility to nominate a new justice and the Senate has a responsibility to vote.”

that's the line that will be used to justify rushing someone through.

How can the Dems complain when it's what they wanted last time?
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Old 19th September 2020, 03:42 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Here’s What HRC Said About Filling A Supreme Court Vacancy In 2016

“The president has a responsibility to nominate a new justice and the Senate has a responsibility to vote.”

that's the line that will be used to justify rushing someone through.

How can the Dems complain when it's what they wanted last time?
Republicans are just following their age-old principle of "Heads I win, Tails you lose."
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Old 19th September 2020, 04:13 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/statu...04888963428357



There he's directly quoting McConnell.

And here's MConnell's statement: https://twitter.com/vrexford/status/1307123623107481600

Basically, it was right not to elect someone until Trump was in because there was a Republican majority, therefore that's what the people wanted, and it's right to elect someone now before the election because there's a Republican majority and therefore that's what the people want.
Yeah, those are his specious justifications. What it really comes down to, though, is that four years ago, he and the GOP said it should be no problem to wait a full year to hear what the American people had to say on the subject, then filling the position according to that say; today, the position must absolutely be filled, right now, before that voice is heard, because the GOP might not have that majority (or the Presidency) afterward.
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Old 19th September 2020, 04:31 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I don't know, Trump looked genuinely stunned to hear that she died. See Joe Morgue's comments.


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post13228490
Ha! Trump was stunned!

It doesn't matter. He's not driving the Supreme Court pick train.

He is given a list of people who Mitch McConnell the Evangelical groups want to have as a Supreme Court justice and he appoints one of those.

1. Evil Twat
2. Really Evil Twat
3. Really ******* Evil Twat.
4. The One that is so freaking much of an evil twat that we put the name on the list for a freaking joke.

Trump: "Give me number 4!"
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Old 19th September 2020, 04:32 AM   #160
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Anyway, farewell to RBG. She served the US well. She will be missed.
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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