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Tags Amy Coney Barrett , obituaries , Ruth Bader Ginsburg , Supreme Court issues , Supreme Court justices

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Old 19th September 2020, 04:35 AM   #161
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So I guess this settles the matter of whether RGB should have retired in 2013.

Her terrible decision to roll the dice then has put us all in a very precarious situation. It may very well be the undoing of much of her life's work, as a 6-3 conservative court will likely start rolling back all the tooth of civil rights protections, including Roe v Wade.

It's hard to imagine the Republicans making such an unforced error. For all the shortcomings of the Republican party, they definitely understand how to play the political power game better than Democrats.
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Old 19th September 2020, 04:56 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
So I guess this settles the matter of whether RGB should have retired in 2013.

Her terrible decision to roll the dice then has put us all in a very precarious situation. It may very well be the undoing of much of her life's work, as a 6-3 conservative court will likely start rolling back all the tooth of civil rights protections, including Roe v Wade.

It's hard to imagine the Republicans making such an unforced error. For all the shortcomings of the Republican party, they definitely understand how to play the political power game better than Democrats.
Yeah, for all her achievements I suspect this decision will come to dominate opinions of her, she could easily have stood aside and guaranteed a likeminded replacement.
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Old 19th September 2020, 05:17 AM   #163
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I think Trump should ram a replacement through, but all of you who are gnashing and rending about the consequences of that can rest easy, I think.

The two appointees Trump has already made, as well as those Bush put on the court, etc. - all seem like they're pretty unwilling to actually do anything conservative.

The more weight the decision carries, the less likely they would be. So something like repealing Roe v. Wade, etc. - there is basically a zero percent chance of them doing.
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Old 19th September 2020, 05:28 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
And if you had zero judges....you would have possibly different decisions in different districts. That isn't awful.
I think not having any justices on the court at all might actually be a constitutional crisis. Luckily that's not a problem we're facing right now.
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Old 19th September 2020, 05:29 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I don't think it is contrary for someone to think "this person will die in the next year or 2" yet still be taken by surprise when it does happen. After all RBG had been through some medical treatments recently but I don't think there was anything to suggest her death was imminent.
I'd guess that CNN and the other networks already had their life tribute show about 99% prepared and ready to air. (I know, there was already one done last year.)
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Old 19th September 2020, 05:31 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think not having any justices on the court at all might actually be a constitutional crisis. Luckily that's not a problem we're facing right now.
There are few things that only the supreme court can hear. If they are not the final arbiter, than a lower court is the final arbiter.
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Old 19th September 2020, 05:34 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
So I guess this settles the matter of whether RGB should have retired in 2013.

Her terrible decision to roll the dice then has put us all in a very precarious situation. It may very well be the undoing of much of her life's work, as a 6-3 conservative court will likely start rolling back all the tooth of civil rights protections, including Roe v Wade.

It's hard to imagine the Republicans making such an unforced error. For all the shortcomings of the Republican party, they definitely understand how to play the political power game better than Democrats.
And then there's Bill Clinton's foolish choice to nominate someone so old, while Clarence Thomas was still in diapers.
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Old 19th September 2020, 05:43 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
There are few things that only the supreme court can hear. If they are not the final arbiter, than a lower court is the final arbiter.
Good point.

Seems like it's still the kind of thing that people could argue over. A lot, to the point of the argument escalating to a constitutional crisis. But whatevs. An 8-person court is not a constitutional crisis. I have no idea what JoeMorgue is trying to say.
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Old 19th September 2020, 06:04 AM   #169
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Republican Senate leader Mitch McConnell vowed to put President Donald Trump's Supreme Court nominee to a vote within hours of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's death being announced, sparking outrage among Democrats.

Mr McConnell said he would act swiftly, despite the election six weeks away.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54216710
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Old 19th September 2020, 06:10 AM   #170
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Here is how I reconcile my feelings.

The white, rich men of the 1790s and 1860s(bill of rights and the 14th amendment era, used extensively in liberal rulings), were probably terrible human beings by current liberal standards.

When it comes to applying the meaning of the constitution, the terrible human beings with terrible views put on the court by republicans are likely closer to these drafters in demeanor and intellect than liberal judges.
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Old 19th September 2020, 06:30 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
I think Trump should ram a replacement through, but all of you who are gnashing and rending about the consequences of that can rest easy, I think.

The two appointees Trump has already made, as well as those Bush put on the court, etc. - all seem like they're pretty unwilling to actually do anything conservative.
The last significant abortion bill that came up, both Gorsuch and Drunky Mcrapeface voted against abortion rights. It was only thanks to Roberts that the law in question was struck down (and that was only because it violated precident). A far-right conservative replacement for RBG that follows the Gorsuch/Kavanaugh pattern would have caused the anti-abortion law in question to have stood.





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Old 19th September 2020, 06:32 AM   #172
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Old 19th September 2020, 06:32 AM   #173
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Dinesh D'Souza tweeted

@DineshDSouza
The last time around we delayed Obama’s nominee Merrick Garland but that’s because we controlled the Senate and used our legitimate elected authority to block an ideological adversary. Why should we now be so stupid as to do something like that to ourselves? #RBGRIP
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Old 19th September 2020, 06:33 AM   #174
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Quote:
White liberal women are terrified right now that the government is going to start treating them like the minority women that they continue to ignore...

Like imagine saying your body and rights are now threatened when Ice is literally sterilizing women and historically speaking have terrorized black and brown communities for centuries.
https://twitter.com/herosnvrdie69/st...07259010207744

I'm guessing this means no brunch.
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Old 19th September 2020, 06:33 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The last significant abortion bill that came up, both Gorsuch and Drunky Mcrapeface voted against abortion rights. It was only thanks to Roberts that the law in question was struck down (and that was only because it violated precident). A far-right conservative replacement for RBG that follows the Gorsuch/Kavanaugh pattern would have caused the anti-abortion law in question to have stood.





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But do you think their decision striking down abortion would be constitutionally correct or incorrect?
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Old 19th September 2020, 06:52 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
So I guess this settles the matter of whether RGB should have retired in 2013.
....
It's another argument for term limits for all federal judges. A 20-year term would have carried RBG into 2013. Thomas and Breyer would be long gone. A regular, predictable turnover would reduce the impact any one President could have on the judiciary and would prevent the kind of dumpster fire we're about to see.
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Old 19th September 2020, 07:04 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Here is how I reconcile my feelings.

The white, rich men of the 1790s and 1860s(bill of rights and the 14th amendment era, used extensively in liberal rulings), were probably terrible human beings by current liberal standards.

When it comes to applying the meaning of the constitution, the terrible human beings with terrible views put on the court by republicans are likely closer to these drafters in demeanor and intellect than liberal judges.
Of course they are.

Which is why we should all be hoping for the country to split into (at least) two smaller countries. Nobody should want the current tensions to die down so that we can all continue on being miserable like this.

Let us have a country that continues to be somewhat recognizable / consistent with the founders and their intentions / worldview - and the leftists can go forward with their completely unrecognizable country that would absolutely horrify all Americans, especially the founders, from 1776 - 1995 or so.
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Old 19th September 2020, 07:24 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
This poor woman had so much pressure to hang on. She could have retired years ago and enjoyed her remaining time. She has done so much for this country, she should be remembered as a hero.

Of course, the Trumpistas are already pissing on her grave.
You got that right
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Old 19th September 2020, 07:27 AM   #179
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Trump Tweets

@GOP We were put in this position of power and importance to make decisions for the people who so proudly elected us, the most important of which has long been considered to be the selection of United States Supreme Court Justices. We have this obligation, without delay!

Thank you Harry!
Quote Tweet

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Harry Reid will go down in history for having handed the court to conservatives when he took the first step toward eliminating the 60 vote requirement for confirmation.
https://nytimes.com/2020/09/18/us/ju...?smid=tw-share

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Old 19th September 2020, 07:33 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Of course they are.

Which is why we should all be hoping for the country to split into (at least) two smaller countries. Nobody should want the current tensions to die down so that we can all continue on being miserable like this.

Let us have a country that continues to be somewhat recognizable / consistent with the founders and their intentions / worldview - and the leftists can go forward with their completely unrecognizable country that would absolutely horrify all Americans, especially the founders, from 1776 - 1995 or so.
That would be a wonderful thing, but after the leftist ran out of money they would just be the next wave of illegal immigrant's.
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Old 19th September 2020, 07:37 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
That would be a wonderful thing, but after the leftist ran out of money they would just be the next wave of illegal immigrant's.
True, but maybe this time we can remember the eternal lesson of what is actually necessary to defend a border.
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:03 AM   #182
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For those here that opposed garland not getting a vote and oppose a trump nominee now getting a vote....


What do you actually want the norm to be?
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:13 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
For those here that opposed garland not getting a vote and oppose a trump nominee now getting a vote....


What do you actually want the norm to be?
Moral and ethical consistency.
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:14 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
For those here that opposed garland not getting a vote and oppose a trump nominee now getting a vote....


What do you actually want the norm to be?
Every nominee voted on by the full Senate. The power of the majority leader is ludicrous.
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:14 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Moral and ethical consistency.
You don't care what the norm is, as long as it is consistent?

Then what is the consistent position for Democrats?
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:15 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Moral and ethical consistency.
Well, that's off the table on both sides. Any other ideas?
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:23 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You don't care what the norm is, as long as it is consistent?

Then what is the consistent position for Democrats?
Stop trying to move the goalposts. Back in 2016 The Republicans insisted that nominations for the Supreme court should wait until after the election. Now in 2020 the Republicans are taking the exact opposite position. The Democratic Party was perfectly content to allow nominations to the SCOTUS in an election year, they are complaining about the breath-taking double-standard being practiced by the Republicans.
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:27 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Well, that's off the table on both sides. Any other ideas?
Watch any last semblance of a functioning governmental system go up in smoke? The problem is that the Democrats want to maintain the system while the Republicans have fallen into the hands of those happy to smash it for any momentary gain. It's firemen versus arsonists, and the answer isn't for the firemen to start burning houses down as well.
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:28 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You don't care what the norm is, as long as it is consistent?

Then what is the consistent position for Democrats?
On what?
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:30 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Stop trying to move the goalposts. Back in 2016 The Republicans insisted that nominations for the Supreme court should wait until after the election. Now in 2020 the Republicans are taking the exact opposite position. The Democratic Party was perfectly content to allow nominations to the SCOTUS in an election year, they are complaining about the breath-taking double-standard being practiced by the Republicans.
Yeah its about time the Republican's started playing by the same rules as the Dems, get use to it and get ready for another fours years of TDS LOL!
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:32 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Watch any last semblance of a functioning governmental system go up in smoke? The problem is that the Democrats want to maintain the system while the Republicans have fallen into the hands of those happy to smash it for any momentary gain. It's firemen versus arsonists, and the answer isn't for the firemen to start burning houses down as well.
Am I the only one seeing discussion about expanding the court in order to pack it with liberal judges if this happens? I feel like there is too much reliance on the Supreme Court. I have no reason to believe the country is all of a sudden going to fall into chaos because a conservative judge will be added. It's wild hyperbole and ignores the very existence of the other branches of government, as if they shouldn't have to do their job.

If the Democrats has a Senate majority, this would not be about shaming Republicans, they would be wielding that power the same way as was done to them. Should have put up more electable choices. As always, a good learning lesson that will hopefully pay dividends over time.
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:34 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
That would be a wonderful thing, but after the leftist ran out of money they would just be the next wave of illegal immigrant's.
You don't seem to understand that the blue states kick much more into the federal pot than they draw out, and the red states take much more than they pay. The Northeast and the West Coast could get along just fine without Moscow Mitch's Kentucky and all the other backwoods leeches.
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:35 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Here’s What HRC Said About Filling A Supreme Court Vacancy In 2016

“The president has a responsibility to nominate a new justice and the Senate has a responsibility to vote.”

that's the line that will be used to justify rushing someone through.

How can the Dems complain when it's what they wanted last time?
Last time a vacancy opened in mid-February. Now the vacancy opens up in September. It normally takes 10-11 weeks to fill a seat; we're six weeks away from an election. Senators are campaigning. And there's a pandemic. Plus wildfires. And civil unrest.

Voters should have punished McConnell last time for his stunt, but Americans are stupid.
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:36 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Stop trying to move the goalposts. Back in 2016 The Republicans insisted that nominations for the Supreme court should wait until after the election. Now in 2020 the Republicans are taking the exact opposite position. The Democratic Party was perfectly content to allow nominations to the SCOTUS in an election year, they are complaining about the breath-taking double-standard being practiced by the Republicans.
As they should complain.....and then take the vote on Trump's nominee (probably during the lame duck period)?

If you want a norm, then you should apply the norm to your own behavior?
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:36 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Stop trying to move the goalposts. Back in 2016 The Republicans insisted that nominations for the Supreme court should wait until after the election. Now in 2020 the Republicans are taking the exact opposite position. The Democratic Party was perfectly content to allow nominations to the SCOTUS in an election year, they are complaining about the breath-taking double-standard being practiced by the Republicans.
"I'm okay with the Senate Republicans not voting on Obama's nominee in an election year, as long as they apply the same principle when it's their guy in office," said no Democrat ever.
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:38 AM   #196
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Split into two nations, red versus blue? Be careful what you wish for:
Quote:
With their output surging as a result of the big-city tilt of the decade’s “winner-take-most” economy, Democratic districts have seen their median household income soar in a decade—from $54,000 in 2008 to $61,000 in 2018. By contrast, the income level in Republican districts began slightly higher in 2008, but then declined from $55,000 to $53,000. Underlying these changes have been eye-popping shifts in economic performance. Democratic-voting districts have seen their GDP per seat grow by a third since 2008, from $35.7 billion to $48.5 billion a seat, whereas Republican districts saw their output slightly decline from $33.2 billion to $32.6 billion.

Democratic districts, for example, have grown significantly more dynamic in the last decade. Overall, “blue” territories have seen their productivity climb from $118,000 per worker in 2008 to $139,000 in 2018 as recent demographic changes and electoral sorting ensured they became better educated and more urban. Republican-district productivity, by contrast, remains stuck at about $110,000, reflecting only slight improvements of bachelor’s degree attainment and Republicans’ increasingly non-metro domain. Link to Brookings Institute report
Of course, when you live in a social media-driven fantasy world, reality doesn't matter much. Until it's too late.
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:43 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
You don't seem to understand that the blue states kick much more into the federal pot than they draw out, and the red states take much more than they pay. The Northeast and the West Coast could get along just fine without Moscow Mitch's Kentucky and all the other backwoods leeches.
Is that why California the worlds 5th largest economy can't put out fires or keep the power on? Keep dreaming your dream I hope it comes true for you!
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:48 AM   #198
Cain
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"I'm okay with the Senate Republicans not voting on Obama's nominee in an election year, as long as they apply the same principle when it's their guy in office," said no Democrat ever.
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Edit for rule 0 and rule 12.
Posted By:zooterkin

Republicans argued that Obama shouldn't be allowed a pick during an election year; the choice should instead be left to the next president. Republicans claimed that they weren't saying this out of pure self-interest but principle. So, by principle, if an election more than eight months away is too soon, then certainly one that's only six weeks away (in a pandemic) is also too soon.
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Last edited by zooterkin; 20th September 2020 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 19th September 2020, 09:05 AM   #199
Captain_Swoop
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“It has been 80 years since a Supreme Court vacancy was nominated and confirmed in an election year. There is a long tradition that you don’t do this in an election year.”
Ted Cruz, 2016, following Justice Scalia’s death.

"I believe that the president should next week nominee a successor to the court, and I think it is critical that the Senate takes up and confirms that successor before Election Day, this nomination is why Donald Trump was elected."
Ted Cruz, yesterday.
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Old 19th September 2020, 09:08 AM   #200
Bob001
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Is that why California the worlds 5th largest economy can't put out fires or keep the power on? Keep dreaming your dream I hope it comes true for you!
Most of the fires are on federal lands. If anybody's not doing their job, it's Trump. The power issues are a problem of mismanagement, not money. And they'd have more money if they weren't shipping so much to the greedy unproductive states.
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