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Tags 2020 elections , debates , Kamala Harris , Mike Pence , Susan Page , vice presidential debates

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Old 7th October 2020, 06:31 PM   #41
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Wait, we don’t know what is changing the climate?
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:31 PM   #42
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Bad question about global warming.

The "do you believe it makes wildfires more frequent and hurricanes more powerful" is not a good way to open the discussion, let alone in a controlled debate format.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:35 PM   #43
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He’s on his game, she’s underperforming.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:35 PM   #44
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Pence:: Trump and I have a plan: where the hell is it?

Pence lies as much as Trump
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:38 PM   #45
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Pence is a slimeball
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:39 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Pence is a slimeball
You got that right. He's worse than he was in 2016.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:39 PM   #47
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Next question: Climate Change.

Pence: US's water is cleanest in the world. Green New Deal "would crush Americans in their homes". US's have reduced CO2 more than Paris Agreement countries by increasing fracking. Need to work on forest management. "Climate alarmists" try to push Green New Deal through hurricanes and fires.

Q: what would be the Biden/Harris stance on the GND?

Harris: Biden would not ban fracking. [More which I missed.] Joe believes in science. Trump admin took the words, "science" and "climate change" off the website. Joe will invest in renewable energy. Carbon neutral by 2030, carbon negative by 2050(?).

Pence: Keeps saying Harris was one of first co-sponsor of Green New Deal. (Third time he's said it. Drops AOC name as if that's a bad spell.)

Harris: VP thinks a trade war with China is an accomplishment. US lost 300K jobs. Manufacturing recession.

Pence: "Lost the trade war? Biden never fought it . A communist." Won't stop talking.

Harris: Biden saved US auto industry.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:40 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
She sounds like she has no momentum at all. She sounds slow and a bit unfocused.
Didn't you say that about Biden last week?
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:41 PM   #49
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I'm surprised that Harris isn't more confrontational. During the covid discussion, she never brought up the Woodward tapes or Trump's dissolution of Obama's pandemic office. When Pence says Obamacare "was" a disaster, she didn't say it's still the law, and made insurance available to 22 million people. She didn't ask "Tell us what is the Trump health plan?" Etc. And the moderator needs a buzzer or a whistle or something. Pence is running over her.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:41 PM   #50
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I love how debates are such formalized shadow puppet theater nonsense that one person can be factually wrong about literally everything but the debate can still be "close" because we focus on body language and facial expression.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:43 PM   #51
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Biden is against NEW fracking on FEDERAL lands.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:44 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I love how debates are such formalized shadow puppet theater nonsense that one person can be factually wrong about literally everything but the debate can still be "close" because we focus on body language and facial expression.
Well, these are political "debates." If they were conducted according to college debate rules they would be very different.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:45 PM   #53
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Next topic: China. What is US relationship with China? Competitors, advertarires, Enemies or [what]?

Pence: Goes to voting records, off topic. China: China is to blame for coronavirus. Trump stood up to China and opposed their travel decisions. Goes over time.

Harris: Trump approach has caused loss of lives, jobs, US standing. It got rid of Obama's achievements. Trump pulled out the Obama/Biden team in China studying coronaviruses. Standing? PEW shows our former allies' leaders are seen higher than Trump. XiJin Ping seen higher.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:46 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I love how debates are such formalized shadow puppet theater nonsense that one person can be factually wrong about literally everything but the debate can still be "close" because we focus on body language and facial expression.
I hate to say it but I'm also wondering if everyone would still be as critical if Harris was a man.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:48 PM   #55
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"She put her environmental agenda over American jobs!"

Errrrr.... yeah. As she should have.

I'm sorry you thought dying in a hole for 40 years digging up little black rocks to burn was a skill that was going to remain viable forever but you can learn a new job. I can't learn to breath something other than air or surface on a planet that's been turned into a cinder.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:48 PM   #56
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Pence just won't play by the rules.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:50 PM   #57
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Pence needs to shut the F up.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:52 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Pence needs to shut the F up.
He didn't hear you.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:53 PM   #59
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Q: What is definition of role of US leadership?

Harris: Know who adversaries and friends are. Trump embraces dictators. Harris is on Senate intelligence committee. Trump friends with Russia, Putin, who interfered with election. Relationships. Our great military. We keep our word. Trump doesn't know how to be honest.

Pence: We moved embassy to Jerusalem. Obama promised but never did that. Trump destroyed ISIS caliphate and Bagdadi. Military saved Calem (?). Goes over time. Iran nuclear deal. Keeps talking over moderator.

Harris would like equal time. Condolences to Calem (?) family. Re Solemani strike. Trump dismissed battle injuries as headaches. Trump said McCain POW doesn't deserve to be called a hero. Trump never ever talked to PUtin about x.

Pence pushes in, talks over moderator, goes over time further. Brings up son in armed forces. Keeps interrupting.

(sorry about typos).
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:57 PM   #60
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Blah blah blah, people of faith...
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:57 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I'm surprised that Harris isn't more confrontational. During the covid discussion, she never brought up the Woodward tapes or Trump's dissolution of Obama's pandemic office. When Pence says Obamacare "was" a disaster, she didn't say it's still the law, and made insurance available to 22 million people. She didn't ask "Tell us what is the Trump health plan?" Etc. And the moderator needs a buzzer or a whistle or something. Pence is running over her.
She got to those points later.

What is consistent with the first debate is that the moderator can't cut people off.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:57 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I hate to say it but I'm also wondering if everyone would still be as critical if Harris was a man.
Well, part of it is that she has been sold as a tough, experienced prosecutor who chews up opponents, and in some Senate hearings she has been known for pointed, aggressive interrogation of hostile witnesses. A man who fumbled as much as she seems to be would probably be getting more criticism.
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Old 7th October 2020, 06:59 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Well, part of it is that she has been sold as a tough, experienced prosecutor who chews up opponents, and in some Senate hearings she has been known for pointed, aggressive interrogation of hostile witnesses. A man who fumbled as much as she seems to be would probably be getting more criticism.
Interesting. I didn't see it that way. There is no hostile witness. She is showing respect as appropriate but still attacking. I think she is doing well.
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:00 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I love how debates are such formalized shadow puppet theater nonsense that one person can be factually wrong about literally everything but the debate can still be "close" because we focus on body language and facial expression.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Pence just won't play by the rules.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Pence needs to shut the F up.
Debates aren't about facts and playing by the rules, they are about pummelling your opponent with rhetoric and the Dems are just not prepared for that.

This is weird. What happened to the Kamala Harris who beat up Biden in the first Democratic primary?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:01 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Question 3 is about if there is a succession plan if Biden or Trump die.

Pence talked about Question 2, the Trump coronavirus response, and didn't answer the question.

Harris is giving her life achievements to give viewers confidence in her ability to take over as president in the event of Biden's death.
That is pretty much all she has to do.
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:02 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Debates aren't about facts and playing by the rules, they are about pummelling your opponent with rhetoric and the Dems are just not prepared for that.
"Rhetoric" sounds a lot like "lying" from where I'm sitting.
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:02 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Harris knows she's fighting the "Angry black woman" stereotype. She's not going to start screaming.
So she's going with meek and passive and apologetic?

no way! Obama could be assertive whatever the stereotype.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:04 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
So she's going with meek and passive and apologetic?
No. She's holding her own just fine against a skeleton wearing a skinsuit costume of Jonny Quest's dad.
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:04 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Debates aren't about facts and playing by the rules, they are about pummelling your opponent with rhetoric and the Dems are just not prepared for that.

This is weird. What happened to the Kamala Harris who beat up Biden in the first Democratic primary?
Biden told her to mellow out? She felt that she had to hang back for some reason? I think if this were Biden you'd be happy that he could actually answer a question.
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:04 PM   #70
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Last topic: Supreme Court.

Abortion. Roe v Wade. What would you want if your state allowed/banned abortion?(?)

Pence: Brings up Soleimani. BidenHarris criticised taking him out. Let me say Trump & Pence could not be more enthusiastic about Coney Barratt. HOpe she gets a fair hearing and no attacks on her Christian faith. Hopes she will be respected.

Harris: As people of faith, it's insulting for Pence to accuse us of that. (paraphrasing). Summing up ACA, Coronavirus, pre-existing conditions.

Q: ACA to be struck down - court case in progress. How is admin protecting people with pre-existing conditions?

Pence: back to Roe v Wade. I'm pro-life, and don't apologise for it. Says Biden/Harris are pro-abortion up to birth. Are you going to pack the court and add seats to the Supreme Court?

Harris: 1862, 27 days before election, Abe LIncoln was president and in charge of senate, and decided it was best if president decides after people chooses the president after the election.

Pence: So you're going to pack the court?

Harris: You want to talk about packing the court? Trump admi officials found not competent. Of 40-something officials not one was black.
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:05 PM   #71
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Yeah, only way a veep impacts the race is if one of them makes a major,major, bondhead mistake of a "I would not trust this person to be President " type.
I think Harris is doing OK....but ,,,and this is true of the debates she had in the California Senate races...she can't seem to get away from her DA/Prosecutor background. She wants to carefully build a case..that might not work wel in a debate format.
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:05 PM   #72
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Pence: “I want the record to reflect she never answered the question.”

My oh my oh my oh my.
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:06 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No. She's holding her own just fine against a skeleton wearing a skinsuit costume of Jonny Quest's dad.
Minor quibble. "Race" Bannon was the body guard* of Dr. Quest.




* back in the day on Adult Swim there was an episode of "Harvey Birdman Attorney at Law" where he represents Race(?). I can't quite remember the details but it was alluded to that Race and Dr. Quest were a "thing" and played on the whole complete lack of female energy in any episode of Jonny Quest.

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Old 7th October 2020, 07:07 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"Rhetoric" sounds a lot like "lying" from where I'm sitting.
I think the technical term is bull ********.

Either way, it wouldn't be lying if she said, "You say you trust the American people, but we can't trust you, Pence! You lied about X, and about Y, and you lie to the American people on a daily basis! And I trust the American people too. I trust them to throw out your boss and you, his sychophantic lackey with him!"

That's not lying; that's rhetoric.

Instead we have, "Oh, let me very slowly and ponderously try to explain and contextualize what you are saying, because things are not really as you are presenting them." zZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:07 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
So she's going with meek and passive and apologetic?

no way! Obama could be assertive whatever the stereotype.
I don't think her going full DA Procescutor mode would work well.
You seem to want her to out and out attack and riducule Pence because of his Fundy beleifs. I don't like them any more then you do, but understand why that would not be a good move politcally. Dems hope to lure some evangelicals away from Trump.
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:09 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Pence: I want the record to reflect she never answered the question.

My oh my oh my oh my.
What a hypocrite.
I fully expect Politicans of any stripe to dodge tough questions, but people who live in glass houses....
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:10 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I don't think her going full DA Procescutor mode would work well.
You seem to want her to out and out attack and riducule Pence because of his Fundy beleifs. I don't like them any more then you do, but understand why that would not be a good move politcally. Dems hope to lure some evangelicals away from Trump.
I didn't say anything about his fundy beliefs. Isn't the fact that he is standing up for Donald Trump everyday for three years enough of an angle to attack him on?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:10 PM   #78
Upchurch
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I hear flies are attracted to ****.
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Last edited by Upchurch; 7th October 2020 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:10 PM   #79
DevilsAdvocate
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Pence's statements denying racism stink so much he is attracting flies!
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Old 7th October 2020, 07:10 PM   #80
Galaxie
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Pence has a fly on his head. It's been there for several minutes.
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