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Tags 2020 elections , debates , Kamala Harris , Mike Pence , Susan Page , vice presidential debates

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Old 7th October 2020, 11:45 PM   #121
Giordano
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At first I wondered why Harris wasn’t being more aggressive? Was she trying to not look too angry and dominant vs Pence to avoid alienating misogynistic white men in the voting population as Hillary had been accused of?

But then I realized. She was avoiding looking too angry and dominate over Biden to avoid confirming the Trump acquisition that she and other “liberal-radical-socialists” would dominate the relaxed, non-threatening, and mainstream Biden.

Just a theory.
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Old 7th October 2020, 11:54 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
At first I wondered why Harris wasn’t being more aggressive? Was she trying to not look too angry and dominant vs Pence to avoid alienating misogynistic white men in the voting population as Hillary had been accused of?

But then I realized. She was avoiding looking too angry and dominate over Biden to avoid confirming the Trump acquisition that she and other “liberal-radical-socialists” would dominate the relaxed, non-threatening, and mainstream Biden.

Just a theory.
From what I read this morning about the debate, I would concur.

Also, as has become standard in this campaign, the two had different goals:
Pence: appease the base and the boss;
Harris: appeal to the undecided voters and the "suburban housewives".

Both succeeded.

Something else (although related to those "suburban housewives"): the gender gap in this election is something else. One more illustration:

Clipboard01.jpg
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Old 7th October 2020, 11:54 PM   #123
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The fact that Pence could put up with having a fly on his head for so long proves that he learned to control his cringe reflex after four years of serving Trump.

Good work Mr Vice-President!
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Old 7th October 2020, 11:55 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
At first I wondered why Harris wasn’t being more aggressive? Was she trying to not look too angry and dominant vs Pence to avoid alienating misogynistic white men in the voting population as Hillary had been accused of?

But then I realized. She was avoiding looking too angry and dominate over Biden to avoid confirming the Trump acquisition that she and other “liberal-radical-socialists” would dominate the relaxed, non-threatening, and mainstream Biden.

Just a theory.
She was just probably tripped out about the fly on Pence's head.

"Whoah!!! Trip out, dude!"
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Old 8th October 2020, 12:10 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
The fact that Pence could put up with having a fly on his head for so long proves that he learned to control his cringe reflex after four years of serving Trump.

Good work Mr Vice-President!
That; or he is a demon living inside the shell of a human.
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Old 8th October 2020, 12:24 AM   #126
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It was weird to follow the debate on conservative Twitter where they were outraged at how angry and disagreeable Harris was then wander into reality where people were admiring how restrained she was.
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Old 8th October 2020, 12:28 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
At first I wondered why Harris wasn’t being more aggressive? Was she trying to not look too angry and dominant vs Pence to avoid alienating misogynistic white men in the voting population as Hillary had been accused of?

But then I realized. She was avoiding looking too angry and dominate over Biden to avoid confirming the Trump acquisition that she and other “liberal-radical-socialists” would dominate the relaxed, non-threatening, and mainstream Biden.

Just a theory.
No, there was no acting required, other than doing her best.

Harris was nervous and didn't address the first question. But after that, she was confident, relaxed, and determined. She wasn't pushy or agitated by Pence's pushiness.

She firmly asked for equal time, and got it, and took it when given, unlike Pence who undermined the moderator.
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Old 8th October 2020, 12:30 AM   #128
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\I had thought of listening to the debate, but forgot. However, reading through the four pages here has been far more interesting!
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Old 8th October 2020, 12:44 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
The fact that Pence could put up with having a fly on his head for so long proves that he learned to control his cringe reflex after four years of serving Trump.

Good work Mr Vice-President!
“I think this was a blessing from God." -Donald Trump or Mike Pence or Ozzy eating a live bat or Eve putting on fig leaves because Adam is a total perv who won't even tip a dollar when you give him a naked lap dance or a guy that was not entirely eaten by a bear or Satan being expelled from Heaven

He journeyed downstairs crestfallen and defective -- a great wait on his boulders -- not even his wife's battered face could raise a smile on poor Mike's head -- who as you know had no flies on him. His wife, a former beauty queer, regarded him with a strange but burly look. 'What ails thee, Mike? she asked stretching her prune. 'You look dejected if not informal,' she addled.
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Old 8th October 2020, 02:05 AM   #130
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Trump tweets

Mike Pence WON BIG!
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Old 8th October 2020, 02:06 AM   #131
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Trump Tweets

Moderator cut off @VP Mike Pence while discussing the Knights of Columbus. This is what he was referring to...

Kamala Harris’s Outrageous Assault on the Knights of Columbus
No longer is the debate over Christianity in the public square. It is over Christians in the public square.
nationalreview.com
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Old 8th October 2020, 02:07 AM   #132
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Trump Tweets

Biden TAX PLAN would raise $4 TRILLION, more than twice the hike proposed by Clinton in 2016

Biden tax plan would raise $4 trillion, more than twice the hike proposed by Clinton in 2016
Joe Biden's tax plan would raise taxes by $4 trillion over the coming decade, mostly paid by wealthier taxpayers, the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center estimated Thursday.
washingtonexaminer.com
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Old 8th October 2020, 02:26 AM   #133
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VP debate 2020: Fly steals the show at vice-presidential debate

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/election-us-2020-54459145
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Old 8th October 2020, 02:40 AM   #134
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Joe Biden opposed taking out Osama bin Laden...

Mike Pence is doing GREAT! She is a gaffe machine.

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris BOTH want to BAN FRACKING.
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Old 8th October 2020, 03:45 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
The fact that Pence could put up with having a fly on his head for so long proves that he learned to control his cringe reflex after four years of serving Trump.

Good work Mr Vice-President!
I have to imagine that the Cov-jefe was screaming at the TV when he saw the fly stay on his boy's head for two-plus minutes.
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Old 8th October 2020, 03:52 AM   #136
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Will the fly have to self isolate for two weeks now?
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Old 8th October 2020, 03:57 AM   #137
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Harris was not a great debater, but was a consummate politician. Staying on theme, ensuring she got her rehearsed points out, not rising to the bait.

But Pence was pathetic. Not as bullying as Trump, but talking over Harris regularly, ignoring the moderator (Harris did too, but not as often) and obsequious to Trump in a nauseating manner. Oh, and obviously lying.

It was a slam dunk to Harris.

And to those who don’t know, both parties are well to the right by Australian standards, and I wouldn’t vote for either if I was in the US. The Democrats are by many measures pretty close to our right wing Liberal National Party.
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Old 8th October 2020, 04:03 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Looks like baloney to me. I didn't notice anything about Pence's eyes watching the debate. I found some pictures that seem to make his left eye look red. But I looked back at the debate video and I see nothing wrong with Pence's eye.
Kind of hard to miss.
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File Type: jpg 88AF8021-5B80-45EA-8BEE-59845863D959.jpg (37.6 KB, 15 views)
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Old 8th October 2020, 04:10 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Kind of hard to miss.
That's surprisingly disturbing.
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Old 8th October 2020, 04:45 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Joe Biden opposed taking out Osama bin Laden...

Mike Pence is doing GREAT! She is a gaffe machine.

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris BOTH want to BAN FRACKING.
thank you for showing the waste of time that twitter is.
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Old 8th October 2020, 05:20 AM   #141
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Trump tweeted this of course forgot to add
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Joe Biden opposed taking out Osama bin Laden...

Mike Pence is doing GREAT! She is a gaffe machine.

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris BOTH want to BAN FRACKING.
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Old 8th October 2020, 05:47 AM   #142
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Watching Harris and Pence argue about which administration loves fracking more is some 100% high test nihilism fuel.

Please remember to vote blue lol
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Old 8th October 2020, 06:02 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Watching Harris and Pence argue about which administration loves fracking more is some 100% high test nihilism fuel.
l
I agree.
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Old 8th October 2020, 06:02 AM   #144
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Yes both Mike Pence and the woman he spent the entire debate attacking as "the most liberal person in the Senate, even more liberal than Bernie Sanders" are in-distinguishable to you because you're just that progressive.

Neither of them showed up wearing a necklace made of the ears of dead cops, so they are just "LOL both sides suck" to you.
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Old 8th October 2020, 06:27 AM   #145
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Hm? Oh, I already voted, so my opinion doesn't matter much here.

But, I got to watch Harris immediately call Dolt 45 a failure (he is), and treat Pence like a man-baby (he is), and in the end, the polls won't change, but I enjoyed it.
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Old 8th October 2020, 06:56 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yes both Mike Pence and the woman he spent the entire debate attacking as "the most liberal person in the Senate, even more liberal than Bernie Sanders" are in-distinguishable to you because you're just that progressive.

Neither of them showed up wearing a necklace made of the ears of dead cops, so they are just "LOL both sides suck" to you.
I think a Biden administration is much preferable to 4 more years of Trump, and I will vote to that effect.

That doesn't change that the supposed liberal party in this country has largely surrendered the issue of the coming climate crisis to the right wing. The libs dance to the right wing's tune and promise to keep fracking and drilling and burning until our planet is unlivable.


Climate change is an issue where "better" really isn't good enough. The longer we wait, the more drastic action will be required to address this problem. There may very well come a time, soon too, where there is no longer viable remedies and we just have to accept a more inhospitable planet. Meanwhile Harris is on stage white knighting for fracking for ****'s sake.

Kamala might have to the left of Stalin in the Senate, but she's clearly taking the Biden company line, which is fairly conservative, to heart. Senator and candidate Harris might have supported the Green New Deal, but that's a dead issue for the Biden administration.
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Old 8th October 2020, 07:05 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Watching Harris and Pence argue about which administration loves fracking more is some 100% high test nihilism fuel.
Blame the Electoral College, and the history of neoliberal economics that's left Pennsylvania dirt poor and scraping the bones of its fossil fuel deposits to keep up its meth habit. Whoever hugs the oil pipeline hardest wins Pennsylvania, and whoever wins Pennsylvania wins the nation. It's stupid, it's shortsighted, it's ultimately poisoning the ground, but it's the only thing some people have left to stay afloat. In this election if you're against fracking, you lose.
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Old 8th October 2020, 07:10 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Blame the Electoral College, and the history of neoliberal economics that's left Pennsylvania dirt poor and scraping the bones of its fossil fuel deposits to keep up its meth habit. Whoever hugs the oil pipeline hardest wins Pennsylvania, and whoever wins Pennsylvania wins the nation. It's stupid, it's shortsighted, it's ultimately poisoning the ground, but it's the only thing some people have left to stay afloat. In this election if you're against fracking, you lose.
I don't doubt the political savvy here, I just find it depressing.

Can't say I agree with the poorshaming of Pennsylvania here. The people there rightly perceive that if they "take one for the team" and stop their energy extraction, the nation will not be there to help them find a new way of making a living. Elitist libs will take food off their table and tell them to stop ******* their sisters and learn to code while doing nothing to actually prevent the entire state from collapsing into poverty.

Mocking the poor for diseases of despair is not politically wise. There is no future for alternative energy policy in this country unless there is a real solution to the problems that dismantling the oil economy would cause.
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Old 8th October 2020, 07:15 AM   #149
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Well... yeah. The whole "Yeah we just totally botched the move from a mostly rural-manufacturing based economy to an urban/suburban tech-service based one... opps our bad just.... I dunno hurry up and die I guess because honestly we don't have anything resembling a plan here country folk..." attitude is the single biggest social/political botch of the last quarter century and the single, by far, largest factor in how a trolling demigod like Trump got elected.
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Old 8th October 2020, 07:18 AM   #150
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Isn't fracking kind of a moot point nowadays? I thought lower oil prices was making high-cost fracking economically inviable.

Not saying that things can't change, and oil prices could skyrocket in the near future reigniting the frack boom, but seems odd that there was so much special emphasis on fracking at this debate.
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Old 8th October 2020, 07:19 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Isn't fracking kind of a moot point nowadays? I thought lower oil prices was making high-cost fracking economically inviable.
It's symbolic. And right now that's all some people have.
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Old 8th October 2020, 07:23 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Pence was... obviously lying.
She really should have been pointing out the lies. Otherwise, they remain unchallenged. (There was a time when I believed some conservative lies because their opponents simply left them unchallenged and I thought surely the opposition would have said something if the claims weren't accurate.) Either make a meme out of immediately saying "That's a lie" or just "Lie" every single time, or bring out a whiteboard or a plexiglass divider/window thing and a marker and just start quietly adding tally marks to it every single time and then explain what you were tallying at the end or whenever they ask, or pick some other mechanism, but don't just quietly wait and then answer the same way you'd answer if it were true, because that just looks like conceding that it's true.

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
both parties are well to the right by Australian standards
They are by American standards too. One survives by appealing to the right-wing minority of voters, and the other survives by fear-mongering everybody else with "but they're even worse than us and we're the only other choice", so we get two parties that are both to the right of most voters. Yay America.
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Old 8th October 2020, 07:24 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's symbolic. And right now that's all some people have.
Normally I wouldn't care that much about VP debates, but with the two dinosaurs at the top of each ticket, there's a decent chance of a VP ascension in the next 4 years regardless of who wins. People are openly discussing whether Biden would even be able to run for reelection in 4 years, so it seems like a glide path is being set up for Harris.

VP's generally only have as much power as the POTUS gives them, and Pence seems to have very little impact on the Trump administration, but that could all change pretty easily.
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Old 8th October 2020, 07:25 AM   #154
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Neither Pence nor Harris strike me as "Chaney."
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Old 8th October 2020, 07:26 AM   #155
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The other issue is a 50/50 Split in the Senate is a very real possibility, so the VP might be the tiebreaker for a lot of legislation.
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Old 8th October 2020, 07:28 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The other issue is a 50/50 Split in the Senate is a very real possibility, so the VP might be the tiebreaker for a lot of legislation.
I mean, prereq for that is having a pulse. VP gonna vote however the party wishes, so it doesn't really matter who it is.
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Old 8th October 2020, 07:37 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I don't doubt the political savvy here, I just find it depressing.

Can't say I agree with the poorshaming of Pennsylvania here. The people there rightly perceive that if they "take one for the team" and stop their energy extraction, the nation will not be there to help them find a new way of making a living. Elitist libs will take food off their table and tell them to stop ******* their sisters and learn to code while doing nothing to actually prevent the entire state from collapsing into poverty.
IIRC the Democratic Party tried to do this by proposing grants for retraining and upskilling and the like. President Trump promised them their old jobs back.

The results speak for themselves, both in the election and in how President Trump failed to deliver
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Old 8th October 2020, 07:39 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I don't doubt the political savvy here, I just find it depressing.

Can't say I agree with the poorshaming of Pennsylvania here. The people there rightly perceive that if they "take one for the team" and stop their energy extraction, the nation will not be there to help them find a new way of making a living. Elitist libs will take food off their table and tell them to stop ******* their sisters and learn to code while doing nothing to actually prevent the entire state from collapsing into poverty.

Mocking the poor for diseases of despair is not politically wise. There is no future for alternative energy policy in this country unless there is a real solution to the problems that dismantling the oil economy would cause.
Point is, Harris wasn't capitulating to the Democratic centrists. She was capitulating to the only issue that one critical state cares about.
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Old 8th October 2020, 07:54 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I know. It turns Pence into an object of ridicule and detracts from his pitifully few success in the debate. That fly did the nation a great service.
Odin bless the fly.
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Old 8th October 2020, 07:57 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I mean, prereq for that is having a pulse. VP gonna vote however the party wishes, so it doesn't really matter who it is.
Between the fly and the eye, not sure he has one. Looked more like road kill than a pulse-haver.
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