ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Gretchen Whitmer , Michigan incidents , militia incidents

Reply
Old 10th October 2020, 08:09 AM   #241
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,206
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
...or he just generally hates people and wants to get violent and doesn't give a fat rats ass about the political justification.
That too.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 09:09 AM   #242
Delphic Oracle
Illuminator
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,974
Is there a narrative of this governor protecting racist police departments?

Is there a narrative of this governor imposing the tyranny of wanting people to wear masks?

Any other questions?
Delphic Oracle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 09:44 AM   #243
TahiniBinShawarma
Muse
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 517
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
And then he threw in with police-friendly Trump supporters to carry out a right wing terrorist plot. Life is strange sometimes.
And anti police non Trump supporters, strange indeed.
TahiniBinShawarma is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 09:46 AM   #244
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 13,108
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Is there a narrative of this governor protecting racist police departments?

Is there a narrative of this governor imposing the tyranny of wanting people to wear masks?

Any other questions?
for whom could you not make the same narrative?
__________________
Prediction
https://xkcd.com/2370/
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 11:09 AM   #245
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 16,029
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Not that strange. If a right wing agitator is attempting to corrupt a left-leaning protest and is approached by a reporter, s/he is obviously going to lie about the reason for their presence.
I had the same thought. It is known that right wing agitators infiltrate protests in order to incite violence. The Boogaloo Bois are known to do this.


Quote:
Bellingcat has documented the involvement in the protests of a largely white, and far-right movement called the Boogaloo, whose leaders “expect, even hope, that the warmer weather will bring armed confrontations with law enforcement, and will build momentum towards
a new civil war in the United States.” “As protests over the death of George Floyd heated up in Minneapolis on May 26th, members of Boogaloo groups across Facebook considered it a call to arms,” wrote Bellingcat’s Robert Evans.

On Twitter, Evans has said he does not think the Boogaloo group is behind the destruction of property. Vice News’ Tess Owen wrote about the Bugaloo Bois, anti-government extremists recognizable by their Hawaiian shirts, that “in addition to their physical presence at the protests, the #boogaloo hashtag on social media has been flooded with
memes in the last couple days egging on violence, and talking about how they hope this is the beginning of a civil war.”
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/J...0610-SD019.pdf

Not surprisingly:

Quote:
Federal officials also said the seven men tied to the Wolverine Watchmen militia group -- Paul Bellar, Shawn Fix, Eric Molitor, Michael Null, William Null, Pete Musico and Joseph Morrison -- support the “boogaloo” movement.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...bc-news-finds/
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 11:40 AM   #246
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,410
Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...f1a_story.html

“One of alleged plotters, 23-year-old Daniel Harris, attended a Black Lives Matter protest in June, telling the Oakland County Times he was upset about the killing of George Floyd and police violence.”
Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
And anti police non Trump supporters, strange indeed.
Just use your brains and think about this for a moment.

A right wing boogaloo boi attends a BLM protest. He suddenly find himself being interviewed by a reporter from a prominent local newspaper, while surrounded by BLM protestors....
Reporter: "What are you doing here today sir, and what do you hope to achieve?"

Boogaloo Boi: "I'm here with my fellow white supremacists to loot shops and agitate these here protests to create mayhem and try to turn the protest violent so that these n-word-loving BLM asshats get a bad name and lose public support"
Yeah, like that's going to be his reply

Of course, what he would actually do is try to avoid suspicion by giving a suitable sound-byte like "I'm upset about the killing of George Floyd and police violence"... oh wait, what was it he told the reporter again?

Your lesson for today is one of Maddow's favourite sayings..."Don't watch what they say, watch what they do!"

https://conandaily.com/2020/10/10/da...from-michigan/

6. On August 9, 2020, he and his co-conspirators participated in a tactical training in Munith, Michigan. When asked about kidnapping Whitmer, he suggested, “Have one person go to her house. Knock on the door and when she answers it, just cap her.”

Yeah, just a peace-living lad who's upset about a n-word being killed by Police
__________________
"Woke" is a pejorative term used by racists, homophobes and misogynists to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 11:44 AM   #247
TahiniBinShawarma
Muse
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 517
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Just use your brains and think about this for a moment.

A right wing boogaloo boi attends a BLM protest. He suddenly find himself being interviewed by a reporter from a prominent local newspaper, while surrounded by BLM protestors....
Reporter: "What are you doing here today sir, and what do you hope to achieve?"

Boogaloo Boi: "I'm here with my fellow white supremacists to loot shops and agitate these here protests to create mayhem and try to turn the protest violent so that these n-word-loving BLM asshats get a bad name and lose public support"
Yeah, like that's going to be his reply

Of course, what he would actually do is try to avoid suspicion by giving a suitable sound-byte like "I'm upset about the killing of George Floyd and police violence"... oh wait, what was it he told the reporter again?

Your lesson for today is one of Maddow's favourite sayings..."Don't watch what they say, watch what they do!"

https://conandaily.com/2020/10/10/da...from-michigan/

6. On August 9, 2020, he and his co-conspirators participated in a tactical training in Munith, Michigan. When asked about kidnapping Whitmer, he suggested, “Have one person go to her house. Knock on the door and when she answers it, just cap her.”

Yeah, just a peace-living lad who's upset about a n-word being killed by Police
Your speculation means nothing.
TahiniBinShawarma is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 11:46 AM   #248
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 16,029
Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Your speculation means nothing.
Right. Because logic and common sense mean nothing. Gotcha.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 12:01 PM   #249
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,410
Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Your speculation means nothing.
and your handwaving also means nothing

ETA: I notice you posted you reply four minutes after my post. You could not possibly have read my entire post AND all the information in the link I posted in that time - ergo, you handwaved what I said "sight-unseen".
__________________
"Woke" is a pejorative term used by racists, homophobes and misogynists to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 10th October 2020 at 12:04 PM.
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 12:38 PM   #250
RolandRat
Muse
 
RolandRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 669
Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Your speculation means nothing.
Denial isn't just a river running through Egypt.
RolandRat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 12:47 PM   #251
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 21,002
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Five pages in before somebody actually presents evidence. Well done, jerry. Everyone else, that's how you do it.
Sure. But it wasn't you. Why is it that you are unable to do so?
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 03:38 PM   #252
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 29,366
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Sure. But it wasn't you. Why is it that you are unable to do so?
I'm still waiting for the unassailable evidence that Obama is a think-skinned narcissist.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 03:46 PM   #253
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 16,029
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'm still waiting for the unassailable evidence that Obama is a think-skinned narcissist.
How could you have missed it? It was evident in all that angry, massive, reactive tweeting after the tan suit and fancy Dijon mustard incidents.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 03:53 PM   #254
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 48,368
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And a wannabe Soviet spy could kill another POTUS.
I almost mentined Oswald, but thought that Booth made my point.
I thing every US presendential assasin could be classified as a "loser" by any definition.
Anyway, the Mixchigan Morons need to be presecuted to the full extent of the law as an example if nothing else.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 09:37 PM   #255
Doubt
Philosopher
 
Doubt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,153
I live in Michigan. But not in a place overly friendly to Trump. I first ran into the militia types on BBS systems. One of them had a countdown to Bill Clinton being arrested. The idea was that as soon as his term ended he was going to be arrested.

At the time there was an effort to unify the militias. A little daylight showed that their leader, a guy named Norman Olsen had at one time been involved in the identity religion movement which was a racist movement at it's core. That exposure caused a good chunk of the militia movement to collapse for a while. Olsen left the state.

The current incarnations are not any better. The only thing that most of these groups really have in common is what they hate.

In this case, the govrenment is the enemy. The idea that Trump is part of the govrenment is not that much of an issue for many of them. Some of them support Trump because they see him as a way to destroy the govrenment either by bringing down the deep state or by sheer incompetence.

Some of them being attracted anarchy is not necessarily in conflict with supporting Trump. They still have their distrust in the establishment to hold them together.

In the end the extremists that are left right and center end up having a lot in common. They are certainly all willing to give up your rights but not theirs to support their agenda and willing to kill to get there. The ideals they claim to support are going to get compromised to put them in charge pretty much every time.

Attempts to paint them as either Trump supporters or Anarchists without noting the things that bring them together are not productive. They are a threat. The problem Trump and his supporters create in this is the inability to accept that the orange menace is playing with matches to win militia support. Attempting to minimize Trumps rhetoric is a denial or reality. Painting them as only Trump supporters misses that they are not going to go away even when Trump does.

Just in case anybody here is not familiar with where the extremists overlap needs to start looking up people like Georges Sorel and how he influence both left and right extremists.
__________________
45 es un titere

Last edited by Doubt; 10th October 2020 at 09:40 PM.
Doubt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 10:20 PM   #256
Hlafordlaes
Disorder of Kilopi
 
Hlafordlaes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 13,669
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Five pages in before somebody actually presents evidence. Well done, jerry. Everyone else, that's how you do it.
Actually, there is a more direct route. It is to accept that the FBI and State authorities have evidence justifying the actions taken. A subsequent trial will bring out the facts of the case, many of which may be unavailable until that time. Or are we dancing around an implicit claim of "deep state" paranoia? In any case, no one on Earth benefits from mistaken buns from half-baked ovens. Everyone, this is how it is never done.
__________________
Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion.
His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp
Hlafordlaes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 10:28 PM   #257
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 13,108
It is nice that the arrests happened without any bloodshed - not a sure thing in these cases.
__________________
Prediction
https://xkcd.com/2370/
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 11:06 PM   #258
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,698
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It is nice that the arrests happened without any bloodshed - not a sure thing in these cases.
Never a sure thing, but much more likely if you're white.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 11:32 PM   #259
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 13,108
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Never a sure thing, but much more likely if you're white.
less likely if it's the FBI vs. Militias
__________________
Prediction
https://xkcd.com/2370/
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th October 2020, 11:46 PM   #260
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 16,029
Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
Attempts to paint them as either Trump supporters or Anarchists without noting the things that bring them together are not productive. They are a threat. The problem Trump and his supporters create in this is the inability to accept that the orange menace is playing with matches to win militia support. Attempting to minimize Trumps rhetoric is a denial or reality. Painting them as only Trump supporters misses that they are not going to go away even when Trump does.

.
I agree. They existed before Trump and they will exist after Trump. But Trump exacerbates the problem. He legitimizes them in their minds.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 12:26 AM   #261
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 13,108
I would be interested how strong the Q connection is on this one.
__________________
Prediction
https://xkcd.com/2370/
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 02:15 AM   #262
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 30,131
Some of those arrested have been reported as having posted QAnon stuff.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 02:50 AM   #263
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 94,081
I think folk are forgetting about the rather large elephant in the room...

Why was she targeted?
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 02:56 AM   #264
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 30,131
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I think folk are forgetting about the rather large elephant in the room...

Why was she targeted?
They spontaneously decided to liberate Michigan, in an incident entirely unrelated to them brandishing firearms at government buildings while carrying symbols like nooses being responded to by Trump tweeting "liberate Michigan".
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 03:02 AM   #265
Safe-Keeper
Penultimate Amazing
 
Safe-Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 10,015
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
They spontaneously decided to liberate Michigan, in an incident entirely unrelated to them brandishing firearms at government buildings while carrying symbols like nooses being responded to by Trump tweeting "liberate Michigan".
After having been ordered to stand by...

I hear the trumpkins running for the thread to post emergency whataboutisms.
__________________
"He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs
"If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig
Safe-Keeper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 03:13 AM   #266
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 30,131
Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
After having been ordered to stand by...
To be fair, that was the Proud Boys, not the Boogaloo Bois. I understand, though. It's difficult to keep track of all the groups that Trump encourages in violence.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 04:37 AM   #267
Safe-Keeper
Penultimate Amazing
 
Safe-Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 10,015
I fully took it as a stand by order for every militia and far-righter in the States. Still do.
__________________
"He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs
"If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig
Safe-Keeper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 08:33 AM   #268
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,569
Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
And anti police non Trump supporters, strange indeed.
Right, it’s like that one time someone who didn’t used to be racist joined the KKK thus proving that the KKK isn’t a racist organization.
johnny karate is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 08:35 AM   #269
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,569
Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Your speculation means nothing.
Luckily, we don’t need speculation. There’s a lot of evidence determining that these were right wing terrorists.
johnny karate is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 08:42 AM   #270
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 26,090
What these morons don't get is they are EXACTLY like ANTIFA. They are libertarian anarchists. Please get rid of this oppressive government. But of course what we would be left with is an even more oppressive government.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 08:49 AM   #271
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 12,055
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What these morons don't get is they are EXACTLY like ANTIFA. They are libertarian anarchists. Please get rid of this oppressive government. But of course what we would be left with is an even more oppressive government.
Disagreed. Here are antifa in a nutshell:

"Hey, there's neo-nazis over there. I hate nazis."

*communicate informally with other guys who hate nazis and proceed to raise hell at nazi demonstrations and some go the extra step of spending free time doxxing the aforementioned nazis*

That's um...pretty much it. They don't do much of anything else.

They are not the political faction they are being painted as. Not every punk kid in a black t-shirt is antifa. As I argue over and over, not everything and every one is political. Most things aren't
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 08:58 AM   #272
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 26,090
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Disagreed. Here are antifa in a nutshell:

"Hey, there's neo-nazis over there. I hate nazis."

*communicate informally with other guys who hate nazis and proceed to raise hell at nazi demonstrations and some go the extra step of spending free time doxxing the aforementioned nazis*

That's um...pretty much it. They don't do much of anything else.

They are not the political faction they are being painted as. Not every punk kid in a black t-shirt is antifa. As I argue over and over, not everything and every one is political. Most things aren't
Of course they're not. I know that.

But having spoken to many people who self identify as ANTIFA, I have heard often this naive "anarchist idea of a world without government which is not so different than the white supremacist libertarian view of many of these militia groups.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 09:02 AM   #273
Mader Levap
Graduate Poster
 
Mader Levap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,054
Horseshoe theory was never so clear.
__________________
Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Trump is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.
Mader Levap is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 09:09 AM   #274
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 12,055
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Of course they're not. I know that.

But having spoken to many people who self identify as ANTIFA, I have heard often this naive "anarchist idea of a world without government which is not so different than the white supremacist libertarian view of many of these militia groups.
I know you know that, which is why it concerns me.

Antifa is being redefined subtlety in people's thinking. Capitalizing, for instance, like they are some sort of acronym for an official body. They are being politicized in a way that, by definition, they are not. It bodes ill that even a level-headed guy like yourself is sliding over to the Fox News portrayal of antifa having political motivation. The individual members will surely have some level of politics in mind, but antifa itself...again, by definition...does not.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 09:11 AM   #275
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 12,055
Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
Horseshoe theory was never so clear.
That's exactly the Fox News portrayal. Antifa is not on that spectrum/horseshoe/circle at all. Not even remotely. They are on an unrelated point over to the side.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 10:21 AM   #276
Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
 
Regnad Kcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 10,039
Originally Posted by TahiniBinShawarma View Post
Your speculation means nothing.
Your dismissal means I had a good chuckle today.
__________________
My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.
Regnad Kcin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 11:07 AM   #277
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,410
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
That's exactly the Fox News portrayal. Antifa is not on that spectrum/horseshoe/circle at all. Not even remotely. They are on an unrelated point over to the side.
Antifa are a whole, other entire, separate horseshoe of its own. They are not an "organisation" as such (no matter how much Dear Leader tries to tag them as a "terrorist organisation"). There is no leader of Antifa. They are simply a loose group of people who don't just hate "Nazis", they hate fascism, be it left wing or right wing.

Antifa are best described as a fascist-hating flash mob.
__________________
"Woke" is a pejorative term used by racists, homophobes and misogynists to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 11:22 AM   #278
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 26,090
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I know you know that, which is why it concerns me.

Antifa is being redefined subtlety in people's thinking. Capitalizing, for instance, like they are some sort of acronym for an official body. They are being politicized in a way that, by definition, they are not. It bodes ill that even a level-headed guy like yourself is sliding over to the Fox News portrayal of antifa having political motivation. The individual members will surely have some level of politics in mind, but antifa itself...again, by definition...does not.
Maybe you're right.

My thinking is more about the idea of being "anti-government". It's a naive idea. As James Madison said, If men were angels no governments would be necessary.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 11:38 AM   #279
portlandatheist
Illuminator
 
portlandatheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,491
The Boogaloo movement also doesn't appear to have much of a coherent ideology. Some are white supremacists , some seek to assassinate white supremacists. If these clowns ever were to get into power, they would create a tyranny far worse than the tyranny they imagine they are fighting against.
portlandatheist is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2020, 11:48 AM   #280
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X
Posts: 37,882
They'll just all kill each other first.
__________________
If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
"...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, Trump shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will
"[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:15 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.