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Old 15th October 2020, 09:48 PM   #1
Skeptic Ginger
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Dueling Town Halls tonight (10-15)

Did you watch, ignore them, any comments?

I watched a good amount of Biden's. He did an excellent job. It wasn't political platitudes. He spoke to detailed ideas and plans he has for the country. It was believable. He might have searched for a word or two here and there but the man is not the least bit senile. He was well versed on every subject.

I switched to Trump for a few minutes. He lied, denied, and claimed how great of a POTUS he is. Same schtick over and over.
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Old 15th October 2020, 11:05 PM   #2
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I missed it as I'm on the West Coast and didn't realize it was on as early as it was.

I'm sure a handful on here were a bit disappointed their "Biden's got dementia" claims from a few months back weren't substantiated.

Trump "lied, denied, and claimed how great of a POTUS he is?" Well, color me shocked!
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Old 15th October 2020, 11:29 PM   #3
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Due to timezone reasons, I didn't watch them.

From what I read this morning: my sincere apologies to NBC for castigating them for this late minute planning of the Trump Town Hall. INAL, but this seems to have been an in-kind contribution to the Biden campaign.
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Old 15th October 2020, 11:34 PM   #4
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The BBC has now turned into President Trump's cheerleader

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54551058

No reporting of his lies, instead it mentions that both candidates were evasive and defensive. The editorial stance seems to be that they're equally bad:

Quote:
Both candidates were on the defensive at times on their records, Mr Trump for a range of issues and Mr Biden on race.
About President Trump's position on QAnon - which he claims to know nothing about:

Quote:
The president said: "I know nothing about it, I do know they are very much against paedophilia, they fight it very hard."
About transfer of power:

Quote:
"And then they talk, 'will you accept a peaceful transfer,'" Mr Trump said. "And the answer is, 'Yes, I will.' But I want it to be an honest election, and so does everybody else."
They're doing their best to flatter the President:

Quote:
... he beamed when one female voter prefaced her question by saying: "You're so handsome when you smile!"
The BBC were complimentary about the President and his Town Hall

Quote:
The president was quicker on his feet and more congenial than during the first debate
Quote:
Mr Trump's forum made for more entertaining television

Meanwhile they stuck the knife in on Biden:

Quote:
Flip channels to the Biden town hall, and the tenor was subdued. Moderator George Stephanopoulos allowed the former vice-president to give long, sometimes circuitous answers.
(IOW - he's senile)
Quote:
Mr Biden deflected again when asked whether his role in helping draft the 1994 crime bill, which the Black Lives Matter movement has blamed for mass incarceration of African Americans, was a mistake.
(IOW - he's racist)
Quote:
The former vice-president, who served under Barack Obama, gave conflicting answers again on Thursday night, at first saying: "I have not been a fan of court packing. I'm not a fan."

But then moderator George Stephanopoulos asked Mr Biden whether he would be open to expanding the number of justices if Republicans confirmed Mr Trump's current nominee for an existing vacancy on the nine-seat Supreme Court.

"I'm open to considering what happens from that point on," he said, though he declined to reveal his stance on the issue.
(IOW - he's a flip-flopper)
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Old 15th October 2020, 11:36 PM   #5
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That's shocking. And sad. I wonder what the feedback to the BBC will be?

They ignored Biden's actual answer to the SCOTUS expansion question which was legit: if Biden made a commitment it would be the headline when Biden felt the headline should be about the pandemic and other issues.

And with the Trump questions, the woman who said how nice Trump's smile was was cringeworthy.
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Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 15th October 2020 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 15th October 2020, 11:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The BBC has now turned into President Trump's cheerleader
The Flemish public-service broadcaster VRT is more balanced. Conclusion by their US correspondent Soenens (quick and dirty Google translation):

Quote:
"They were two completely different interviews. You cannot identify winners or losers," says Soenens. "I saw a difference of day and night in terms of atmosphere. Joe Biden wanted to provide a lot of details about policy measures, what to do with energy, how to tackle the corona epidemic, whether or not taxes are increased. He gave concrete answers to concrete questions. "

"Donald Trump often avoids questions. When he gets a question about the corona epidemic, he just wants to say how fantastic the economy was before that epidemic broke," says Soenens. "Positions will not change because of this, but you did feel a nervous president who feels the pressure of the opinion polls, in which he is seriously lagging behind. The question is whether he can still close that gap."

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2020/10...sverkiezingen/
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Old 15th October 2020, 11:57 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
The Flemish public-service broadcaster VRT is more balanced. Conclusion by their US correspondent Soenens (quick and dirty Google translation):
No, no, no. Trump was waaaaaay more belligerent than that. They just want to keep this thing in play for the clicks.
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Old 16th October 2020, 12:02 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The BBC has now turned into President Trump's cheerleader

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54551058

No reporting of his lies, instead it mentions that both candidates were evasive and defensive. The editorial stance seems to be that they're equally bad:



About President Trump's position on QAnon - which he claims to know nothing about:



About transfer of power:



They're doing their best to flatter the President:



The BBC were complimentary about the President and his Town Hall





Meanwhile they stuck the knife in on Biden:


(IOW - he's senile)

(IOW - he's racist)

(IOW - he's a flip-flopper)
Anthony Zurcher did this at the last debate. Is he an American? The BBC should fire his sorry ass. I'm tempted to ask him if he knows Dr. Heywood J. Blowme.
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Old 16th October 2020, 05:39 AM   #9
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I switched back and forth for a while. Biden did well and really tried to explain in detail his policy and plans. It sounded like a normal political discussion and he wasn't the least bit cognitively challenged.

Trump was his usual self. He could only answer in hyperbole and couldn't give any details. When pressed about health care, he kept saying we wants to replace it with something better but could never actually explain what that is. Obamacare is terrible, but he's going a great job running it. Yes, he's in court trying to get it repealed because it's so terrible.

On his taxes, he said the publication of their details was illegal, but those details were completely wrong - he doesn't owe $400m but his owing $400m is really not that much - he'd love to tell you who it's owed to - he really wants to release his taxes but they're under audit, the $750 was a standard number (or some such explanation). He hedged a bit and my impression was that the details in the NYT article are correct.

I can't see anyone really being undecided at this point or either candidate changing anyone's mind. But the performances were what you'd expect from both.
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Old 16th October 2020, 06:23 AM   #10
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Well, that wasn't the Trump train wreck I thought (hoped) it would be. I think the moderator should have stayed on or called out some answers a little better.

"Well, QAnon is OK because they're against pedophilia." Yeah, she should have noted that most people are... Or, when he said he didn't know QAnon, "Isn't that your ******* job, to know things like that?" Well, I said that, anyway.
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Old 16th October 2020, 09:27 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post

"Well, QAnon is OK because they're against pedophilia." Yeah, she should have noted that most people are... Or, when he said he didn't know QAnon, "Isn't that your ******* job, to know things like that?" Well, I said that, anyway.
Hey, he is busy learning who the proud boys are... He can't be expected to know everything.


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Old 16th October 2020, 09:33 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That's shocking. And sad. I wonder what the feedback to the BBC will be?

They ignored Biden's actual answer to the SCOTUS expansion question which was legit: if Biden made a commitment it would be the headline when Biden felt the headline should be about the pandemic and other issues.

And with the Trump questions, the woman who said how nice Trump's smile was was cringeworthy.
That woman is voting for Biden.
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Old 16th October 2020, 09:34 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
That woman is voting for Biden.
Maybe it was damning with faint praise?
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Old 16th October 2020, 09:58 AM   #14
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Wow. I've read BBC has been leaning more and more conservative, but that's pretty shocking. Britain's been moving in a dark direction lately.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:01 AM   #15
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Ignored. Not worth my time, especially for Trump.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:18 AM   #16
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I'm officially in love with Samantha Guthrie.

"You're not somebody's crazy uncle. You're the President."
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:20 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I'm officially in love with Samantha Guthrie.

"You're not somebody's crazy uncle. You're the President."
He is, in fact, Mary Trump's crazy uncle!
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:22 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I'm officially in love with Samantha Guthrie.

"You're not somebody's crazy uncle. You're the President."
It's Savannah, but I agree. She's a hottie.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:27 AM   #19
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More people watched Biden on ABC than Trump on NBC, MSNBC and CNBC.
Quote:
Joe Biden's town hall on ABC averaged 13.9 million viewers on Thursday night, easily surpassing the Nielsen ratings for President Trump's town hall on NBC. That alone was a result virtually no one in the TV business expected. And that's not even the most surprising part.

The Trump town hall was simulcast by two of NBC's cable channels, MSNBC and CNBC, but even when those channels are included in the total, Biden -- on only one network -- still prevailed.

The Trump town hall averaged 10.6 million viewers on the NBC broadcast network. On MSNBC, Trump reached 1.74 million viewers, and on CNBC, about 671,000 viewers. So Trump's gross audience across the three channels was 13 million, about one million fewer than Biden's audience on ABC alone.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/10/16/m...ump/index.html
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:43 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
More people watched Biden on ABC than Trump on NBC, MSNBC and CNBC.
#FakeNews

Elebenty bajillion people watched President Trump online...
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:46 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
More people watched Biden on ABC than Trump on NBC, MSNBC and CNBC.

Like I said in one of the other threads, the response will likely be 'The lying FAKE NEWS didn't count the millions of people who watched me online. My ratings were much higher."
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:53 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
Like I said in one of the other threads, the response will likely be 'The lying FAKE NEWS didn't count the millions of people who watched me online. My ratings were much higher."
"I got higher ratings than Sleepy Joe in Lichtenstein! Can you believe it?"
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Old 16th October 2020, 11:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
It's Savannah, but I agree. She's a hottie.
Except I love her for her intelligence and wit, nothing more. I'm not shallow like you.
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Old 16th October 2020, 11:43 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Except I love her for her intelligence and wit, nothing more. I'm not shallow like you.
Just keep calling her Samantha. She'll love that.
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Old 16th October 2020, 11:52 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Just keep calling her Samantha. She'll love that.
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Old 16th October 2020, 12:09 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Except I love her for her intelligence and wit, nothing more. I'm not shallow like you.
I'm sure Ron was impressed with her wits, too.
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Old 16th October 2020, 12:10 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Just keep calling her Samantha. She'll love that.
She and I operate on a deeper level than that.



(Ok, sorry, fear makes me manic. Not unlike 2004. I'm zipping it now.)
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Old 16th October 2020, 12:32 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The BBC has now turned into President Trump's cheerleader
I flipped back on forth on my laptop, and I agree on some of the BBC's points. It was more entertaining. I didn't see any gaffes from Biden, but Trump was pretty damned restrained and stuck pretty well to his talking points. I ended up watching more Trump than Biden because I was hoping to see a meltdown, but as far as I can tell he didn't have one.

I don't know how this happened but Trump seemed pretty well-disciplined. And Biden did ramble a bit.

ETA: Like, I thought his answer on the 1994 crime bill did put him on the defensive. At the time a lot of people were swept up in the "super predator" narrative, partly because that's what the media was reporting because, surprise, the media likes to be alarming. It does no good for Biden to admit he made a mistake, because Trump will never, ever do that, but I think a shorter answer would have served him better.

Last edited by Minoosh; 16th October 2020 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 16th October 2020, 12:37 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The BBC has now turned into President Trump's cheerleader

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54551058

No reporting of his lies, instead it mentions that both candidates were evasive and defensive. The editorial stance seems to be that they're equally bad:



About President Trump's position on QAnon - which he claims to know nothing about:



About transfer of power:



They're doing their best to flatter the President:



The BBC were complimentary about the President and his Town Hall





Meanwhile they stuck the knife in on Biden:


(IOW - he's senile)

(IOW - he's racist)

(IOW - he's a flip-flopper)
It's pretty clear to me that Biden is committed to not giving a clear answer about his position on expanding the Supreme Court. I'm going to vote for him anyway.
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Old 16th October 2020, 12:39 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
More people watched Biden on ABC than Trump on NBC, MSNBC and CNBC.
I was streaming both, hopping back and forth. I wonder how that shows up on the ratings, or if it does.
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Old 16th October 2020, 12:49 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I was streaming both, hopping back and forth. I wonder how that shows up on the ratings, or if it does.
Apparently streaming doesn't register in the Nielsen ratings.

Trump will probably claim that he won bigly if streaming is added to the totals. See the jokes of The Don, Armitage72 and alfaniner above.
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Last edited by Firestone; 16th October 2020 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 16th October 2020, 12:55 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
More people watched Biden on ABC than Trump on NBC, MSNBC and CNBC.
Now that is hitting him where he lives.Trump, like any TV star is obssesed with ratings.
I am aurprised;I thought Trump would win for no toher reason then people would tune in hoping to see him meltdown
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Old 16th October 2020, 12:57 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
It's pretty clear to me that Biden is committed to not giving a clear answer about his position on expanding the Supreme Court. I'm going to vote for him anyway.

The difference is, Biden actually explained why he won't give a clear answer, and his explanation is actually pretty reasonable.
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Old 16th October 2020, 01:00 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
That woman is voting for Biden.
They introduced her as slightly favoring Biden.
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Old 16th October 2020, 01:02 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I'm officially in love with Samantha Guthrie.

"You're not somebody's crazy uncle. You're the President."
One of her rare better moments from the segment I watched. She still let him slide on the answer. I got the impression NBC was worried they wouldn't have any access to Trump if they pissed him off.
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Old 16th October 2020, 01:04 PM   #36
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I flipped back on forth on my laptop, and I agree on some of the BBC's points. It was more entertaining. I didn't see any gaffes from Biden, but Trump was pretty damned restrained and stuck pretty well to his talking points. I ended up watching more Trump than Biden because I was hoping to see a meltdown, but as far as I can tell he didn't have one.

I don't know how this happened but Trump seemed pretty well-disciplined. And Biden did ramble a bit.

ETA: Like, I thought his answer on the 1994 crime bill did put him on the defensive. At the time a lot of people were swept up in the "super predator" narrative, partly because that's what the media was reporting because, surprise, the media likes to be alarming. It does no good for Biden to admit he made a mistake, because Trump will never, ever do that, but I think a shorter answer would have served him better.
Trump was on the defensive throughout. And belligerent. And rambled - but in a Trump way.
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Old 16th October 2020, 01:09 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Trump was on the defensive throughout. And belligerent. And rambled - but in a Trump way.
IOW nothing new whatsoever.
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Old 16th October 2020, 01:17 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
They introduced her as slightly favoring Biden.
True. But she talked to the Miami New Times.

Quote:
"Paulette Dale, the Florida voter who complimented President Donald Trump's smile at a town hall on Thursday night, told the Miami New Times that she planned to vote for Joe Biden, the Democratic nominee.
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Old 16th October 2020, 01:30 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
It's pretty clear to me that Biden is committed to not giving a clear answer about his position on expanding the Supreme Court. I'm going to vote for him anyway.
I reckon he will say that he will expand the Court after Barrett is confirmed. A pretty decent argument can be made that the Garland nonsense followed by a late confirmation this year was gaming the system. If the Republicans can defend their actions on the grounds they are allowed by the Constitution, the same argument can be made for undoing the damage of underhanded politicking, leaving the court with a 6-5 balance in conservatives' favor rather than 6-3.

He says he will announce prior to the election. This is a pretty reasonable guess I think.
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Old 16th October 2020, 02:51 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I reckon he will say that he will expand the Court after Barrett is confirmed. A pretty decent argument can be made that the Garland nonsense followed by a late confirmation this year was gaming the system. If the Republicans can defend their actions on the grounds they are allowed by the Constitution, the same argument can be made for undoing the damage of underhanded politicking, leaving the court with a 6-5 balance in conservatives' favor rather than 6-3.

He says he will announce prior to the election. This is a pretty reasonable guess I think.
Their main defense is that, having won a Senate majority in the midterms of 2014 (and "expanded" in 2018), and the White House in 2016, they were speaking with the voice of the people in having blocked Garland's nomination in 2016 and are now in bulling through with Barrett's (apparently because waiting to hear that voice this year might result in something they don't want to hear). So Biden could make the case, if he wins the Presidency and the Democrats retake the Senate (and possibly "expand" their House majority), that he's entitled by that voice to redress the Court's ideological balance. I don't particularly like that argument, since, for one, I don't think America really does support it, and, two, it's too much like playing the GOP's Calvinball game with the Court (and Constitution)- but it would certainly seem valid by the Republicans' standard of shifting standards.

Also, as I've said before, even if he loses, but Democrats take the Senate, then, by the GOP's own argument (that a lame-duck President facing a Senate majority of the opposite party should expect that party, enabled by the recently-heard voice of the people, to exercise the right by it to block his nominations), Trump gets no SC noms passed for at least two years. If Trump is re-elected, he will be a lame-duck from the day he's sworn in- I don't know why he'd think he should get any more consideration from Democrats during his last four years than Obama was entitled to during his last two.

All this could be avoided if the "Constitutional originalists" (i.e., the GOP pretend-version) wouldn't insist that a document that, after all, doesn't mention parties (and certainly Washington, at least, was against the concept), is one of the strong legs they stand on. How about we go by what the thing says? President nominates based on qualifications, Senate says yea or nay based on same. I know, I know- "advise and consent." I suppose that could be interpreted to mean "block completely without even hearing a case" or "ram through based on party strength alone, no other case necessary"- but it surely cannot have been the Founders' intention to make government a constant head-butting and dick-measuring contest like that.
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