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Old 25th March 2012, 04:21 PM   #1601
DOC
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I suggest you take a look at DOC's posting history, and you will better understand. I once congratulated DOC for being polite, but I subsequently came to see that, in my view, the repeated dishonesty of his approach overwhelms the non-confrontational tone of his writing.
Red Flag -- Replies to no post of mine.

Any Tom Dick or Harry can say anything in these threads. Backing it up with a reasoned explanation is another matter.

There should be a rule on this site that you can not say anything derogatory about someone unless you back it with a reasoned explanation and must use at least 2 of the person's "entire" posts as examples. And even if you did that it would still be an ad hom regarding other posts by the person.

As I've said many times, my threads are not about me, but some skeptics want to make them about me.

Last edited by DOC; 25th March 2012 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 25th March 2012, 04:29 PM   #1602
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Red Flag -- Replies to no post of mine.
Are people only allowed to reply to you now? This thread isn't about you, you know.

RED FLAG!!

This post replied to yours but you never answered it:
Originally Posted by RoboTimbo
Originally Posted by DOC View Post
If many prophecies were fulfilled so that you thought there was something supernatural happening would that change your behavior?
If it were ever demonstrated that biblical prophecies have been fulfilled and it could only be because of supernatural mean, I would be more inclined to believe in the supernatural.

My behavior wouldn't change in the slightest. I still would not kill people I suspected of being witches. I still would not murder children for mocking their elders. I still would not brutally rape and murder my enemies. I still would not hold other humans in slavery.

How would your behavior change if you were to realize that biblical prophecies have not been fulfilled, that it is only intellectual dishonesty and cognitive dissonance that cause people to believe they have been?
There should be a rule on this forum that you must answer questions put to you, no matter how uncomfortable the answer or how much it shows your hypocrisy.
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Old 25th March 2012, 04:33 PM   #1603
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post

There should be a rule on this site that you can not say anything derogatory about someone unless you back it with a reasoned explanation and must use at least 2 of person's "entire" posts as examples. And even if you did that it would still be an ad hom regarding other posts by the person.
Saying something derogatory may be rude, but it is not an ad hominem.
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Old 25th March 2012, 04:38 PM   #1604
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Red Flag -- Replies to no post of mine.

Any Tom Dick or Harry can say anything in these threads. Backing it up with a reasoned explanation is another matter.

There should be a rule on this site that you can not say anything derogatory about someone unless you back it with a reasoned explanation and must use at least 2 of person's "entire" posts as examples. And even if you did that it would still be an ad hom regarding other posts by the person.

As I've said many times, my threads are not about me, but some skeptics want to make them about me.
This thread is about you believing in failed bible prophecies.
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Old 25th March 2012, 04:42 PM   #1605
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To Tim Callahan, you have mentioned several times without sources that Thebes in Egypt was not damaged by Nebuchadnezzar's attack. Well this author would disagree with your hypothesis because he says Thebes was probably damaged during Nebu's incursion.

http://books.google.com/books?id=RXd...nezzar&f=false

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Old 25th March 2012, 04:46 PM   #1606
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
To Tim Callahan, you have mentioned several times without sources that Thebes in Egypt was not damaged by Nebuchadnezzar attack. Well this author would disagree with your hypothesis because he says Thebes was probably damaged during Nebu's incursion.

http://books.google.com/books?id=RXd...nezzar&f=false
Who is that author?

Do you readily get your information from an article written in a 170 year old magazine?
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Old 25th March 2012, 04:52 PM   #1607
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Originally Posted by joobz View Post
Who is that author?

Do you readily get your information from an article written in a 170 year old magazine?
And a very old work of fiction.
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Old 25th March 2012, 05:18 PM   #1608
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
DOC, I went back to your OP to see what the thread is supposed to be about. Your link there is dead. Does that mean your whole premise for this thread is dead?
No, it was still born.
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Old 25th March 2012, 06:48 PM   #1609
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Originally Posted by stanfr View Post
Here's a small sample, just from the first few pages (all different posters!):

"Do you even understand the logic there, DOD?"

"Anyone who doesn't question this story must be a complete git"

"DOC-Why do you keep using logical fallacies in almost every post?"

"DOC-Is it really that impossible for you to fathom.."

"DOC-I don't mean to present proof of your deceitful dishonest methods..."

I'd like to bet (that DOC) is a dishonest, unscrupulous person"

"DOC Do you realize just how moronic you sound...do you really believe this crap...you sicken me"

"He (DOC) is only worthy of ridicule and insult"

"Are lies and liars appropriate for Christians?"

"How many people do you have to help you carry your testicles?"

"You're still wrong and still living in a delusion"

"DOC IS evil"

Now, granted, I don't know DOC's history, but I do know that these are all personal direct attacks/insults, and were unprovoked in this post as far as I could tell. Can anyone point to a comparable remark made by the OP?

That's why I think it makes y'all look very immature.

You clearly don't even understand what a "personal direct attack" looks like. None of those were any kind of attack. Some were definitely mocking, but after so many pages of utter, unsubstantiated ********, it's only reasonable that people not bother trying hide their disdain for someone so intellectually dishonest.
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Old 25th March 2012, 07:17 PM   #1610
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Red Flag -- Replies to no post of mine.

As I've said many times, my threads are not about me, but some skeptics want to make them about me.
So we're only allowed to reply to you, but the thread is not about you. Which is it, DOC? This quote of yours makes it abundantly clear that it's you yourself who wants to paint that this thread is about you rather than your (utterly failed) claims.

Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Any Tom Dick or Harry can say anything in these threads. Backing it up with a reasoned explanation is another matter.
Wild claims without explanation abound in this thread, particularly by one specific poster.

Originally Posted by DOC View Post
There should be a rule on this site that you can not say anything derogatory about someone unless you back it with a reasoned explanation and must use at least 2 of the person's "entire" posts as examples. And even if you did that it would still be an ad hom regarding other posts by the person.
If you know exactly how to run a forum, why don't you start one yourself?

Originally Posted by DOC View Post
To Tim Callahan, you have mentioned several times without sources that Thebes in Egypt was not damaged by Nebuchadnezzar's attack. Well this author would disagree with your hypothesis because he says Thebes was probably damaged during Nebu's incursion.

http://books.google.com/books?id=RXd...nezzar&f=false
That unnamed author exactly says "it probably again suffered in the incursion of Nebuchadnezzar" and provides zero evidence for his claim. Note the weasel word "probably". You may also note this was written in 1842, an age when Egyptology was still in its infancy. So we're still awaiting real evidence. Like a burning layer in Thebes that can be calculated to 567BC. Or a cuneiform graffiti "Nebu was here".

And then scroll to the next page in that 1842 Penny Magazine for something completely different.
...
...
...
The Birch!
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Old 26th March 2012, 12:13 AM   #1611
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
To Tim Callahan, you have mentioned several times without sources that Thebes in Egypt was not damaged by Nebuchadnezzar's attack. Well this author would disagree with your hypothesis because he says Thebes was probably damaged during Nebu's incursion.

http://books.google.com/books?id=RXd...nezzar&f=false
Book?
Or magazine?
Really, since when is 'probably' evidence of anything but an opinion, in this case, an opinion written in the 19th century?
Do you have any follow-up on that?
Something more recent?
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Old 26th March 2012, 12:46 AM   #1612
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
To Tim Callahan, you have mentioned several times without sources that Thebes in Egypt was not damaged by Nebuchadnezzar's attack. Well this author would disagree with your hypothesis because he says Thebes was probably damaged during Nebu's incursion.

http://books.google.com/books?id=RXd...nezzar&f=false

A few hours back you posted, "Red Flag -- Replies to no post of mine." Why should this not also apply to this post of yours?
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Old 26th March 2012, 01:15 AM   #1613
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Red Flag -- Replies to no post of mine.
...
As I've said many times, my threads are not about me, but some skeptics want to make them about me.



Quote:
Any Tom Dick or Harry can say anything in these threads. Backing it up with a reasoned explanation is another matter.
Indeed. Will you be starting any time soon?
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Old 26th March 2012, 03:10 AM   #1614
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Indeed. Will you be starting any time soon?
Ooh, ooh, pick me! I know the answer to this one!
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Old 26th March 2012, 03:45 AM   #1615
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post



And then scroll to the next page in that 1842 Penny Magazine for something completely different.
...
...
...
The Birch!
I think this is the kind of post that DOC thinks should not be allowed, and I agree.

It's off topic, not addressed at any specific claim, and a failed attempt to deflect from a very serious thread topic with a pitiful attempt at humor.

Oh, and in addition, everyone knows its "The Larch!"

Last edited by Fast Eddie B; 26th March 2012 at 03:46 AM.
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Old 26th March 2012, 06:45 AM   #1616
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
My opinion is you are worried to just let the posts that actually offer historical information stand for themselves.
He surely isn't worried about that at all. In fact, the posts that actually offer historical information are exactly the reason why people are not convinced by your babbling.

Hint: Those posts are the ones _not_ written by you.
Have you ever paused for a minute a thought about what the reason for that might be?

Oh, and joobz, you can put me in the "unconvinced" category as well.

Greetings,

Chris
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Old 26th March 2012, 07:03 AM   #1617
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Originally Posted by stanfr View Post
Out of morbid curiosity, i read the first 5 pages here, then quickly decided not to waste my time after the arguments went circular.
I've never seen convincing proof of accurate biblical convincing, but it is remarkable why hordes of skeptics seem to revel in attacking a sole believer like a pack of wolves. Kind of reminds me of all the fly-by-night anonymous internet commentators who love to yell insults at each other. Doesn't seem like the sole believer is going to change is mind, so why the desire to respond? Does it make people feel more self-assured of their opinions? Certainly no outsiders are gleaning any educational info from this.
I think to be a fair fight it should be 1 on 1, or at least a moratorium on responses after about 3 or so until the OP can respond. I for one wouldn't be bothered, but hey it's not my fight...
You have to understand, to a very large degree, DOC is an unwitting Simplicio to our Salviati. So long as he's willing to put forth easily argued against material, we'll gladly supply the counters.

The rest is just fluff inbetween the DOC-droppings.
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Old 26th March 2012, 07:40 AM   #1618
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Originally Posted by stanfr View Post
Out of morbid curiosity, i read the first 5 pages here, then quickly decided not to waste my time after the arguments went circular.
I've never seen convincing proof of accurate biblical convincing, but it is remarkable why hordes of skeptics seem to revel in attacking a sole believer like a pack of wolves. Kind of reminds me of all the fly-by-night anonymous internet commentators who love to yell insults at each other. Doesn't seem like the sole believer is going to change is mind, so why the desire to respond? Does it make people feel more self-assured of their opinions? Certainly no outsiders are gleaning any educational info from this.
I think to be a fair fight it should be 1 on 1, or at least a moratorium on responses after about 3 or so until the OP can respond. I for one wouldn't be bothered, but hey it's not my fight...
My youngest daughter was born with brain cancer which was not diagnosed until she was eight and a ten hour operation saved her life. Both Doc and another believer called Edge said that it was my fault that she had cancer, god was punishing me. That is not nice, Doc deserves all he gets here.
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Old 26th March 2012, 07:43 AM   #1619
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
My youngest daughter was born with brain cancer which was not diagnosed until she was eight and a ten hour operation saved her life. Both Doc and another believer called Edge said that it was my fault that she had cancer, god was punishing me. That is not nice, Doc deserves all he gets here.
Yeah, what he failed to realize is that the Hindus are right and reincarnation happens. You are a karmic payment to your daughter.


She must have been a REALLY bad person in a former life.
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Old 26th March 2012, 07:48 AM   #1620
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
That unnamed author exactly says "it probably again suffered in the incursion of Nebuchadnezzar" and provides zero evidence for his claim. Note the weasel word "probably"...
I'd much rather an author say "probably" then claim something as a fact that is merely an hypothesis as has been done at least twice by TimCallahan.

Mr. Callahan also rarely gives sources but no one except me ever complains about that.
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Old 26th March 2012, 07:58 AM   #1621
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Originally Posted by kmortis View Post
Yeah, what he failed to realize is that the Hindus are right and reincarnation happens. You are a karmic payment to your daughter.


She must have been a REALLY bad person in a former life.
That's odd, she's a wonderful person in this life.
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Old 26th March 2012, 07:59 AM   #1622
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Mr. Callahan also rarely gives sources but no one except me ever complains about that.
That's because you have this strange desire to believe in failed prophecies from an old book of nonsense.

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Old 26th March 2012, 08:07 AM   #1623
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
I'd much rather an author say "probably" then claim something as a fact that is merely an hypothesis as has been done at least twice by TimCallahan.

Mr. Callahan also rarely gives sources but no one except me ever complains about that.
Would you care to sustantiate that claim, please?
The author of an article in an 1840 magazine hardly ranks as the best source cited here, DOC.
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Old 26th March 2012, 08:20 AM   #1624
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post

Mr. Callahan also rarely gives sources but no one except me ever complains about that.
I just got my copy of Tim's book on bible prophecy off the shelf.

Three page bibliography.

All it would take to confirm his sources is a tiny bit of effort.

If one was so inclined.
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Old 26th March 2012, 09:17 AM   #1625
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
I'd much rather an author say "probably" then claim something as a fact that is merely an hypothesis as has been done at least twice by TimCallahan.
Tim's direct logical argument is:
Originally Posted by TimCallahan View Post
Again, for Nebuchadnezzar to have fulfilled the prophecy in Ezekiel he would have wrought destruction even in Thebes. Yet, there is no evidence of such destruction at this archaeological level. Ezekiel also said there would no longer be a prince in Egypt. Yet, the 26th. dynasty kept going after the death of Nebuchadnezzar.
All you need to do is present archaeological evidence that there was destruction brought upon by Nebuchadnezzar in Thebes.

What you presented was an opinion from a magazine article from 170 years ago.
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Old 26th March 2012, 09:19 AM   #1626
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
I'd much rather an author say "probably" then claim something as a fact that is merely an hypothesis as has been done at least twice by TimCallahan.

Mr. Callahan also rarely gives sources but no one except me ever complains about that.
Frankly, this article in The Penny Magazine is really reaching. I read it, and all it said was that Thebes was "probably" destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. Here's what Wikipedia has to say about this publication:

The Penny Magazine, published every Saturday from 31 March 1832 to 31 October 1845, was an illustrated British magazine aimed at the working class. Charles Knight created it for the Society for the Diffusion of Useful Knowledge in response to Chambers's Edinburgh Journal, which started two months earlier. Sold for only a penny and illustrated with woodcuts, it was an expensive enterprise that could only be supported by very large circulation.

This is hardly an archaeological journal, and it certainly isn't current.

Since you accuse me of never giving any sources, Here's the Babylonian Chronicle, now in the British Museum, as quoted in Wikipedia, on Nebuchadnezzar's invasion of Egypt:

"In the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar, king of the country of Babylon, he went to Mitzraim (Egypt) to wage war. Amasis, king of Egypt, collected [his army], and marched and spread abroad."

And that's it. Had he destroyed Thebes or any other city in Egypt Neb would have said so. The absence of any self-congradulatory propaganda in this chronicle means there wasn't anything to crow about. In all probability it wasn't even Neb's intention to invade Egypt. Rather, a show of force on its borders was probably meant to give a warning to stop interfering in the Levant.

Last edited by TimCallahan; 26th March 2012 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 26th March 2012, 09:41 AM   #1627
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
I'd much rather an author say "probably" then claim something as a fact that is merely an hypothesis as has been done at least twice by TimCallahan.

Mr. Callahan also rarely gives sources but no one except me ever complains about that.
Somehow, you're the only person here he seems not to notice the sources Tim mentions in his posts. For instance, about the surrender of Babylon to Cyrus, Tim has repeatedly mentioned his main source:

Originally Posted by TimCallahan View Post
BTW, DOC, the document stating that Babylon surrendered peacefully is a preserved document from that very time. It is the Cyrus Cylinder. You may want to look it up.
Originally Posted by TimCallahan View Post
DOC: Since joobz has already answered much of your post, pointing out that the specifics of the prophecy are not matched by the reality of history, I'll concentrate on the validity of the Cyrus Cylinder v. the writings of Herodotus vis-a-vis the fall of Babylon to the Persians.
<snip>
Originally Posted by TimCallahan View Post
3) I've already pointed out that Herodotus, writing nearly a century after that fact, is a poor source of information regarding the Persian conquest of Babylon, particularly since his account conflicts with that of the Cyrus Cylinder. I might add that, though there is some disagreement on the translation of a certain passage in the Cyrus Cylinder, it does say that the captive peoples in the Chaldean Empire could return home. Are you sure you want to discount this document?
Originally Posted by TimCallahan View Post
2) You have appealed to later, less reliable, historians whose accounts support your views, but run counter to both archaeology and earlier, more reliable accounts. This is particularly true of the Cyrus Cylinder, a preserved document created at the time of Cyrus' conquest of the Chaldean Empire, versus the account by Herodotus of the Persian conquest of Babylon.
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Old 26th March 2012, 09:44 AM   #1628
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Somehow, you're the only person here he seems not to notice the sources Tim mentions in his posts. For instance, about the surrender of Babylon to Cyrus, Tim has repeatedly mentioned his main source:
See, the problem isn't that Tim doesn't cite sources. It's that DOC doesn't like the sources Tim cites. Therefore those sources don't exist. Hence, Tim doesn't cite sources. Dig?
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Old 26th March 2012, 09:51 AM   #1629
Lucian
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
I'd much rather an author say "probably" then claim something as a fact that is merely an hypothesis as has been done at least twice by TimCallahan.
Others have mentioned how pathetic this source is, but even it doesn't support the argument that Thebes was destroyed to the extent the prophecy claims. The quote continues:

Quote:
though it still survived and was held in high consideration, and something seem to have been done towards its restoration; and B.C. 80, it was still of such strength and consequence as to dare to rebel against Ptolemy Lathyrus, and stood a three years' siege before it was taken and plundered.
Source: DOC's source

Originally Posted by DOC View Post
Mr. Callahan also rarely gives sources but no one except me ever complains about that.
You're the only one who complains because you're the only one who somehow fails to notice that he does, in fact, generally provide a link to a source.
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Old 26th March 2012, 09:51 AM   #1630
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Reupdated again to include more responses.

DOC has successfully demonstrated a fullfilled biblical prophecy: 1
DOC

DOC has failed to demonstrate that biblical prophecies have been fullfilled. 41
Joobz
Foster Zygote
jond
abaddon
mashuna
zooterkin
Mojo
Lucian
Amazer
Helen
Filippo Lippi
Hokulele
RoboTimbo
FastEddieB
joseph8th
kmortis
x
RobDegraves
Elizabeth I
Lukraak_Sisser
Mudcat
ddt
Mister Agenda* Whose opinion DOC labeled as Unbiased
catsmate
tsig
Leumas
Brainache
Welshdean
Rincewind
Multivac
pakeha
dafydd
TimCallahan
Wildy
Lrrr
Cantab
Sezme
AdMan
Alice Shortcake
Sun Countess
Agatha

Doc has successfullly demonstrated that the OT is largely made up of incomprehensible gibberish: 14
Lucian
Helen
kmortis
ddt
Leumas
Mudcat
Welshdean
Rincewind
Multivac
Brainache
pakeha
Cantab
Sezme
abaddon
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC.
"Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser
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Old 26th March 2012, 10:27 AM   #1631
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Oh, and in addition, everyone knows its "The Larch!"
All except the author of that magazine who seems thoroughly convinced that it's "the Birch" and no evidence would convince him otherwise. Although in the author's case it's because he's dead.
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Old 26th March 2012, 02:18 PM   #1632
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DOC: Here is another source regarding the surrender of Babylon to Cyrus without a fight. Scroll down a bit and look at verses 25 and 16. This document, now in the British Museum, is called the Nabonidus Chronicle. It was apparently written by Babylonian priests of Marduk, who were unhappy with the last Chaldean king, Nabonidus (Nabu-naid), who, they felt, had slighted Marduk, patron deity of the city of Babylon, in favor of the moon god, Sin.

So, I have no given you, as sources, two preserved documents, the Cyrus Cylinder and the Nabonidus Chronicle, each written shortly after Babylon capitulated to Cyrus.

As to the invasion of Egypt, I've pointed out to you the following:

1) There is no archaeological evidence to support a destruction of Egypt by the Chaldeans.

2) According to the Nebuchadnezzar Chronicle, another preserved document, Neb. marched against Egypt and Pharaoh Amasis marched out to meet him. The Chronicle says nothing more.

3) It is known the Amasis was still alive and running Egypt after Nebuchadnezzar was dead.

As to Nebuchadnezzar's attack on Tyre, Ezek. 29:18 says that Nebuchadnezzar's army got nothing for their labor against Tyre. Therefore, even the Bible concedes that Neb. didn't take the main city.
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Old 26th March 2012, 02:58 PM   #1633
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Originally Posted by kmortis View Post
See, the problem isn't that Tim doesn't cite sources. It's that DOC doesn't like the sources Tim cites. Therefore those sources don't exist. Hence, Tim doesn't cite sources. Dig?
DOC doesn't like cylinders?
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Old 26th March 2012, 03:08 PM   #1634
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I think this is the kind of post that DOC thinks should not be allowed, and I agree.

It's off topic, not addressed at any specific claim, and a failed attempt to deflect from a very serious thread topic with a pitiful attempt at humor.

Oh, and in addition, everyone knows its "The Larch!"
My humble apologies that my feeble attempt at humor did not live up to your standards. It's neither here nor there, but this thread is not about you nor about me, it's about DOC, as we all know. Just putting that information out there.
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Old 26th March 2012, 11:43 PM   #1635
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I’m not a practicing Catholic but I came across a book entitled “The Catholicism Answer Book” by Rev. Jon Trigilio Jr. and Rev. Ken Bighenti.

Here is a question and the given answer from the book pg. 45-46

“Was Jesus a prophet or a messiah?

He was both. Many non-Christian religions consider Jesus of Nazareth to be a holy or revered prophet. Christians, however, believe he was indeed a prophet but much more than that. Prophets are not fortune tellers who gaze into crystal balls, read tea leaves, or use tarot cards. Prophets rarely, but occasionally predict the future. The main function and job of a prophet is to teach; that is, to speak to the people in the name of the Lord...
...Prophets teach and speak on behalf of God. Jesus taught in the synagogues, in the temple, in the towns and cities. He preached a message of mercy and forgiveness. He spoke what the Father sent him to speak just as all the prophets before him had. The only difference was that Jesus as the Son of God was one with God the Father. The fullness of truth and grace were revealed by Jesus, hence there was no need for any more prophets after Him..."

Last edited by DOC; 26th March 2012 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 26th March 2012, 11:58 PM   #1636
Lucian
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
I’m not a practicing Catholic but I came across a book entitled “The Catholicism Answer Book” by Rev. Jon Trigilio Jr. and Rev. Ken Bighenti.

Here is a question and the given answer from the book pg. 45-46

“Was Jesus a prophet or a messiah?

He was both. Many non-Christian religions consider Jesus of Nazareth to be a holy or revered prophet. Christians, however, believe he was indeed a prophet but much more than that. Prophets are not fortune tellers who gaze into crystal balls, read tea leaves, or use tarot cards. Prophets rarely, but occasionally predict the future. The main function and job of a prophet is to teach; that is, to speak to the people in the name of the Lord...
...Prophets teach and speak on behalf of God. Jesus taught in the synagogues, in the temple, in the towns and cities. He preached a message of mercy and forgiveness. He spoke what the Father sent him to speak just as all the prophets before him had. The only difference was that Jesus as the Son of God was one with God the Father. The fullness of truth and grace were revealed by Jesus, hence there was no need for any more prophets after Him..."
That's nice, but you didn't name this thread "The incredible odds of fulfilled bible teaching." It's quite specifically and unambiguously about biblical authors predicting the future. You can't change the definition of "prophecy" at this late date.
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Old 27th March 2012, 12:18 AM   #1637
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
I’m not a practicing Catholic but I came across a book entitled “The Catholicism Answer Book” by Rev. Jon Trigilio Jr. and Rev. Ken Bighenti.

Here is a question and the given answer from the book pg. 45-46

“Was Jesus a prophet or a messiah?

He was both. Many non-Christian religions consider Jesus of Nazareth to be a holy or revered prophet. Christians, however, believe he was indeed a prophet but much more than that. Prophets are not fortune tellers who gaze into crystal balls, read tea leaves, or use tarot cards. Prophets rarely, but occasionally predict the future. The main function and job of a prophet is to teach; that is, to speak to the people in the name of the Lord...
...Prophets teach and speak on behalf of God. Jesus taught in the synagogues, in the temple, in the towns and cities. He preached a message of mercy and forgiveness. He spoke what the Father sent him to speak just as all the prophets before him had. The only difference was that Jesus as the Son of God was one with God the Father. The fullness of truth and grace were revealed by Jesus, hence there was no need for any more prophets after Him..."
Another example of a logical fallacy, the DOC sequitur.
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Old 27th March 2012, 12:19 AM   #1638
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Originally Posted by Lucian View Post
That's nice, but you didn't name this thread "The incredible odds of fulfilled bible teaching." It's quite specifically and unambiguously about biblical authors predicting the future. You can't change the definition of "prophecy" at this late date.
I'm not changing the definition of prophecy, I'm just more clearly defining the prophets of the Bible. Their purpose was not just to predict the future although they did that too.

Last edited by DOC; 27th March 2012 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 27th March 2012, 12:45 AM   #1639
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Originally Posted by DOC View Post
I'm not changing the definition of prophecy, I'm just more clearly defining the prophets of the Bible. Their purpose was not just to predict the future although they did that too.

I'm sorry DOC but even if we couldn't call you on shifting goalposts (by the we can, in case there was any doubt) it would not help make your claims anything but invalid.

Also, in case you missed the rest of the thread or just plain ignored it, these prophets did not predict, foretell, devine, scry, or otherwise produce anykind of prophecy for the future; past, present or future... You know future as in the future future that's future for our present. Damn, time travel gives me headaches.
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Last edited by Mudcat; 27th March 2012 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 27th March 2012, 12:48 AM   #1640
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Originally Posted by Mudcat View Post

I'm sorry DOC but even if we couldn't call you on shifting goalposts (by the we can, in case there was any doubt) it would not help make you argument anything but invalid.
What argument are you talking about?
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